There are two basic motivating forces: fear and love. When we are afraid, we pull back from life. When we are in love, we open to all that life has to offer with passion, excitement, and acceptance. We need to learn to love ourselves first, in all our glory and our imperfections. If we cannot love ourselves, we cannot fully open to our ability to love others or our potential to create. Evolution and all hopes for a better world rest in the fearlessness and open-hearted vision of people who embrace life. ~ John Lennon

Previous thread Haven't Got Time for the Pain

Good luck falling asleep tonight! BTW I'm been chowing down on Robins Eggs!! Yum!

Another reason John Lennon was just amazing.

Buggywhip you're an incredible woman.

Love the Lennon quote. Gave my oldest son the middle name "Lennon".

I identify with your plight. I am at the 1 yr mark too. Loved Mach's advice!

Brklyn....a Lennon fan.... all right!

My mom raised me on the White Album! The Beatles just don't sound as good without all the dust and scratchy noises on the vinyl. Do you know what time John was shot? I do. My mom was in the delivery room with me 3 minutes after he was shot and they turned up all the radios to the news. She said she cried for his death while rejoicing my birth. You know that old saying: "for every death, theirs a new life", She liked to think that he was reincarnated in me... But I cant sing.

Didnt mean to go on a ramble, but I love Lennon and I really love that quote you shared you always have great thread names- that are always so fitting for the current mood of your sitch.

Well, Purg, then your bday is the day after mine.

I remember where I was on that day.

My S13 has been a Beatles fan since he was 3 or 4 years old. He started off with the Beatles "1" collection. Now he's got about every album and can recite history of each person based upon biographies he's red.

About 4 years ago we took him to his first concert, "Ringo Starr and his All Star Band". It was pretty fun except for the drunk lady in the tube top next to us! (OK, I digress, back to your regularly scheduled programing...)

Yesterday was the most difficult day I've had in a long time. I used to watch my kids struggle and be cranky when they were going through different developmental stages. Ee adults do the same but we often try to manage the fear and discomfort with substances, sex, withdrawal. Anything to make us feel better.

But in doing that we miss the struggle, the development of new muscles whether they be mental, emotional or physical. Without the pain of struggle maybe the change is incomplete and we never quite get to the other side or crawl out of the hole.



What I've learned about detachment in the last couple of days=I have more work to do.

When I do things wondering if H will notice or respond, I'm not detached.
When I wonder what he's doing and if he's thinking of me, I'm not detached.
When I make plans based on what he might be doing, I'm not detached.
When I wake in the morning wondering if there will be an email from H, I'm not detached.
When I still obsess on what I could have done differently, I'm not detached.
When I dissect everything he does or says for hidden meaning, I'm not detached.

I've come a long way but I'm not there yet.



I'm getting there, I'm getting there I just need to keep walking my path with an open heart.

People get into a heavy-duty sin and guilt trip, feeling that if things are going wrong, that means that they did something bad and they are being punished. That's not the idea at all. The idea of karma is that you continually get the teachings that you need to open your heart. To the degree that you didn't understand in the past how to stop protecting your soft spot, how to stop armoring your heart, you're given this gift of teachings in the form of your life, to give you everything you need to open further.~Pema Chodron

The learning is in the journey... Good insights, Labug! Hope your day goes well!

Did you have the same fears when you first met your spouse ?





I think it is deeper than that on a couple of those. Some of those are a must, some are a waste of time. I trust YOU know which witch is which.....

One small twist on each of those will tell a different tale.

On the ones that matter....It is when you allow yourself to place expectations on those things, that they become dangerous to the LBS.


It is very normal to reflect on what has happened around the 1 year mark. We look back and wonder where we are, where we are headed, and what we could do different.

It throws us into a loop, that goes round and round, causing us to look everywhere, except where the answer really is...inside.

The funny part (funny as in odd, not Ha Ha ) is that we are not unlike our spouses at this point. We tend to blame , and run, rather than to look inward.

If we can stop for a minute, and realize what it is that we are facing, we realize that we have the answers inside already....and that we are asking the wrong questions.







I think this is a good place to get out your shovel and dig around....

WHY are you like this ????

Because I was never quite good enough as a child. Everything I did could have been just a little better, according to my mother. And her "spare the rod, spoil the child" theory of child-rearing made sure I got that message. Sometimes as a child I would say things not realizing I'd crossed the line and then wham! So I was hypervigilant for the signals as to where the line was.

Yes. But he loved me as I was. He thought I was pretty, he thought I was fun, he thought I was smart. He rescued me and I held on for dear life. My locus of control went from M, to him. Not in the sense that he physically controlled me but that my sense of worth came from him.

But I still could not throw off the feeling of unworthiness.

And now I have to get ready for work.

Thanks, Mach. keep it coming.

Stinky monkey hug for the bug ((((bug)))

Glad you've resurfaced! Thanks for the hug.

Much better day today. Great work day, great personal day.

When we can live with no expectation, life is so much better.

I'm glad you had a better day. Many times your words run so close to my heart.. It's scary!

I'm back at work tomorrow. Maybe I'll have a good work day too!!! I can dream.

bf, this was on my fb wall today.

Let it go, forgive. The past is over and done. Forgiveness is letting go of all hope or expectation of a “better past”. I cannot change the past and let go of the all expectation to do so.

Glad you had a good day, labug! Hope the trend keeps going for you!

So what made it a good day? Was it letting go of expectations or more?

Yes, letting go of expectations and just being open to life on life's terms.

We miss so much by having expectations.

So true, labug. Having expectations carries with it the risk of disappointment. When you can go with the flow and just play the hand you're dealt, you can feel a lot of freedom.

I really like this ^^^, Labug! Thanks for sharing!

Labug,

Mother issues...those are always hard.

Many of us have them. In fact there is a song, sung by Reba McEntire and Kelly Clarkson that speaks to my R with my own mom. It describes the feelings she instilled in my core. Ideas that I have always carried with me in the back of my mind.

Most of my life, I have done a wonderful job of keeping those things, her voice quiet. I learned at an early age that I didn't want her getting to me in that way. I became the "rebellious" one. I most often did exactly the opposite of what my mother told me, usually proving her wrong about the results.

When I received my bomb, one of the things I realized was that I hadn't done as good a job ignoring her as I thought. I married someone who was similar to her in ideals. I married someone I spent a lot of years trying to be good enough for, or better than that.

I went through a huge anger phase at myself. For what I allowed myself to experience and tolerate.

I learned that the only person I really had to be good enough for was me. I started making my choices from within without looking for others opinions or attitudes.

I had to learn to shut the voices off. They don't serve me, who I am, who I want to be. In order to do this, I had to know me, who and how I want to be.

The messages are still there. They still surface. I use them as reminders for the most part. Reminders to look within for MY answers.

Oh cat, you so get me.

I just kept running and then trying to make myself into the daughter she wanted and then going back to ask "Now am I good enough?"

She's been dead 2 years and I think I'm finally burying her.

My H was/is not like her at all. He saw her for what she was but couldn't understand the dynamics of our relationship at all. It drove him crazy.

This is a journey about finding ME.

Thanks for sharing with me.

Bug, you're awesome. I truly believe you are walking the toughest path of all, one on one, the real you and the universe.
Its very hard to stop and look at yourself from every angle. It's pretty scary, and to admit and know that you have become a product of your past. To break from that and move this to the next level is the noblest things anyone can do.

I was brought up on The Beatles too! We should all be on the cover of Sargeant Peppers "Lonely Hearts" club band!

My dad loved the beatles! I remember hanging out in the basement listening to them with him. My first concert was a beatle mania concert. Ah the memories.

Saw McCartney 2x! And, saw Dhani Harrison (son of George) which was awesome. Who was your favorite beatle?

Mine was George, followed by John

Paul, of course. I was going to marry him, But I was fickle and my heart soon moved on the Davy Jones, who just died.

I'm really depressed now.

Davy jones just died??? How come i'm only hearing of this here??? I use to watch the monkees an brady bunch.. Marsha Marsha Marsha!

Just told my W about DJ. She loved the Monkees, especially DJ. She is very sad about the news and can especially relate to how he left this world. Ugh!

Incidently, my W's sister performed with Paul McCartney on a project he is working on with his son. W's sister called her own teenage son to let him know who she was working with and PM asked if he could talk to her son on the phone. How cool is that? Really a class act!

There is hope, since he died on Feb 29, he'll only be dead every 4 years.

Better now.

^^^nice!

Just in time for the forthcoming zombie apocalypse .

My god I'm jealous! What a cool guy huh?

Very cool.

Favorite Monkey? Mine was Peter Tork, actually met him! I know, none of the girls choose Peter. Remember Marsha getting hit in the nose with the football? Also, I think Alice and the butcher guy were hooking up!

That is so "f"'ing funny!!!!! I don't think anyone can beat that comment!

Ha ha....women will still want him even zombified

i found this thread after your reply to me earlier today - on the way home from picking the boys up from school i was listening to Pema's tape - "from fear to fearlessness" and i thought to myself - wonder if anyone on the board has read or listened to Pema's talks - and here you are.

i am at the same point as you - the fear you talk about - we all have it and we all have to rip it out of ourselves - like taking off the skin and growing a new one

i love all the things you have written - write more, i need to hear those things and live them - thank you

what you wrote about what you do that shows you are not yet detached - yes - thank you - i will keep those sentences in mind ALL the time as i go through the detachment

i realized in the last few days - that for the first 5 months i just kept putting pema's tapes on all day long and they were really helping me to detach and then 3 weeks ago i stopped and the sitch and me started to feel much worse, so a couple of days ago i started listening again - i thought i had absorbed what she was teaching and that i was living it - but, it's too soon, it will take a while to really become that way

I need to check out Pema....sounds like it will help

OK, kids, I'm gonna get wobbly here.

When we last left our Wayward Spouse story, H had broken his wrist. I, of course, knew nothing about this until S19 told me he had to take him to the doc to get it set on Monday this week.

Today S19 had to take him to the doc for a 'little surgery' on the wrist. Wrists are a pain because of all the little bones in there. H hates anything to do with hospitals and would very rarely even come to meet me there or even have lunch with me. He did occasionally when S22 was a baby. He gets all weak kneed. Blood makes him woozy.

So, I'm feeling wobbly but I am not going to do anything about it. He chose his path.

I want to make sure he has pain meds and food and on and on and on...

But, he chose this path.

My mother used to say "Give me strength!"

So DB Buddies, give me strength.

OK, kids, I'm gonna get wobbly here.

When we last left our Wayward Spouse story, H had broken his wrist. I, of course, knew nothing about this until S19 told me he had to take him to the doc to get it set on Monday this week.

Today S19 had to take him to the doc for a 'little surgery' on the wrist. Wrists are a pain because of all the little bones in there. H hates anything to do with hospitals and would very rarely even come to meet me there or even have lunch with me. He did occasionally when S22 was a baby. He gets all weak kneed. Blood makes him woozy.

So, I'm feeling wobbly but I am not going to do anything about it. He chose his path.

I want to make sure he has pain meds and food and on and on and on...

But, he chose this path.

My mother used to say "Give me strength!"

So DB Buddies, give me strength.

be tough girl - he isn't going to die:)

i know exactly what you are going through. for me everytime H has been sick since this sitch he's been in the same house as me, and i have given him meds and made him food - but in a detached way, expecting nothing and he's done the same for me once.

it's a hard one, i think, to choose which way to go - i know if we hadn't been in the same house or around each other, i definitely would NOT have gone over to take him anything - unless it was something like open heart surgery and i don't want my kid's father to die (that was probably a sick joke)

just breathe through it and let it go - you can visualize him healing quickly and that can be your way of taking care of him - so you don't have to physically do something for him.

here's another way to look at it - if you were in a different country or a different state, you wouldn't hop on a plane and come back to make sure he had his meds, would you? they'll make sure at the hospital that he gets what he needs

is that enough strength? if not write back and i'll try to think up some more

i know where you're at - i had the same thing to deal with at x'mas

Being the person I am.. I would probably email or something saying that I heard what happened (we share kids.. How could I not know?). Show some empathy.. And then say.. If there is anything I can do to help you out, please don't hesitate to let me know... And then leave it at that. But.. That's me.

It might be seen as pursuing but, it is something I would say to anybody I cared about. I'm not a cold b!!! .

I'll grab the WC and follow behind you in case your legs give out!! Or maybe grab a 4 WW.

BF had a good idea ^^^^^^

You logically know the right thing to do, it's your heart that's telling you to reach out to him.

Remember what you always tell me? Is it really about helping them, or is it that you want to be in control? When I helped H with the baby in the middle of the night, I thought I was doing a good thing by taking some of the load off him- and you pointed out to me that it probably had more to do with me needing to be in control... And that H could see it as me implying that he is incompetent in some way.

Would your H think that you're telling him he's incompetent if you ask him about his food and pills? There has to be some kind of way you can express concern without potentially insulting him.... I don't know what that looks like.

Bugless...i know how you feel...i cant bear to see my W suffer. Maybe just offer him to help if he needs it but dont take over. At least he will see you still care.

Bug,

If he contacts you, then its ok to ask those things.

If he doesn't, and you try to offer comfort, you will probably be disappointed in the results.

You aren't his mother. He is grown. He didn't tell you about this, so leave it alone.

cat, here's the funny part...I found out last night, he is staying with his 85 year old mother. She's a lovely woman but she drives him crazy. I'm sure that situation won;t last much longer.

Thanks everyone for the strength, I'm feeling better today. It's his to deal with and he very clearly didn't ask for my help. bf, keep the wc at the ready, you never know.

Here's a side note. I wasn't always the most loving caretaker to H because "that's my day job" and to come home and have him prostrate from a cold or some minor thing used to irritate the crap out of me. I never got that at home either, my brothers and I have joked that we needed a death certificate to be able to stay home from school.

Lots to think about.

labug - Same here! If I hadn't passed out, my mother would have sent me to school once with scarletina (scarlet fever). LOL

That's why I worked hard to be Nurse Betty while H has been sick. Normally, it gets on my nerves when he's all whiny, sniff, sniff - but this time I did what I could to make him comfortable. He told me he appreciated it.

You're doing the right thing by not offering your help. Trust me, he's probably wishing you were there if his mother is getting on his nerves. LOL

(((bug)))

OK Team,

H just called here to talk to S19, who was still in bed. He was up late last night because he took H in for the surgery, sat all day and then got him to MIL's house and picked up prescriptions, etc. He is a bit depressed and having a hard time processing the separation, and now being the go to guy for Dad. I told him last night how proud I was of him for stepping in and being there for H.

Anyway he had a hard time getting to sleep last night, I sat up with him and we talked until I fell asleep at around 11.

Anyway H calls (he never calls here) he sounds like crap and a little groggy from pain meds. He was displeased that S19 was still in bed and that he couldn't find some instructions the doctor gave him yesterday (it was always my role to take care of all that in the past) I just answered his questions about S19 and said nothing else. Handed the phone to S19 and walked out of the room.

Turns out the written instructions were with H, right where S19 left them.

And you know what, my mood did not change.

Good job bugsy!

It's sad that a grown man has to depend on his 19 year old to take care of his emotional needs and apparently his medical needs as well. It's good that you are there for S19 to support him through this. I don't think any 19 year old would put up with that kid of behavior for very long- I mean, this is *their* turn to grown up and learn.

Good for you for walking out of the room!

Hey Labug!

Progress is a wonderful thing,

Sounds like plenty for you lately.

I am going to look for Perma's tapes, too.

Aloha,

Wendy

PS Go to yoga!

Hey Wendy, I miss you being over here! I'll have to travel over to MLC land to catch up on you.

Nicely done bug!

What's new bug? Any good stories to share? See any hampsters lately?

xoxo

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead!

I was joking with kolja today that this was how I would start updating my thread. Some of you may remember the repeating Chevy Chase SNL Weekend Update sketch with that line. This was funny after weeks (maybe months) of hearing constant updates about Franco as he "clung to life" or "doctors have given up hope" over and over and over again.

So when he actually died, SNL kept updating that he was still dead. Anyway, H and I found it very funny and used the line many times to indicate that something hadn't changed.

Actually H did call the house again yesterday, wanting to speak with S19. It was a fine conversation, all of about 3 minutes. He was a little perturbed that S was "late" to pick him up although it seems there wasn't a predetermined time.

Now H is the kind of guy that is never late for work but everything else he does on his own time. "They'll wait."

I, of course, had to be everywhere 15 minutes early so as not to be late. My control freak friends here can relate, I'm sure. Needless to say we had difficulties around this subject.

It was amusing to hear him distressed that S19 was being a bit of a chip off the old block. But I only listened, offered no suggestions, didn't try to fix and let his problem be his problem.

He did move back to his place today, so he's no longer under the loving care of his Mom. I'm sure he was about to go batty because as I said before, she's a lovely woman but is at that stage where she repeats everything, over and over.

As he can't work and can't drive and is now alone, he's having lots of time to reflect and perfect his deep, deep, deep dark technique.

Yes, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still Dead!

Not related.... But my mind immediately jumped to the "Bring out your dead" skit by Monty Python. It made me laugh at myself

Now, the rest of the movie is playing my head....

I know we all wish we could say this more frequently. Great job Bug!

Lovex that movie....thanks for the laugh.

It's not right for your H to put such a burden on your S19.

I'm Not Dead Yet!

Just had a yucky phone convo with a friend (probably now x) that I tried to DB through but...not so good I fear.

We haven't talked for quite a while since the last time she told me how H was not going to do anything unless I got an attorney and a court order and yadda yadda. This was after I had asked her to proofread an email I was going to send about splitting costs for something for S19. (as it turned out I sent my email and H agreed). I didn't ask for advice on the content just didn't want it to sound controlling.

So I told her I just needed to pull back and take a break from people who wanted to tell me what to do about my R (She is also a very controlling, judgmental type, probably what fueled our R for a long time). I also said that people don't understand why I want to save my marriage or how it feels to have been in a R for so long and then have it fall apart.

I tried to listen and validate but did say I needed to protect myself and didn't need to hear anymore about how I should "get a good attorney" and "make him pay", etc.

She was clearly angry with me and said "but you kept bringing it to me" Yes, I shared with her but was not looking for legal advice, just support.

There was more but I kept it from being a circular I said, she said convo but it feels yucky that I didn't handle it better. But you know what? She said she was sad but she never really said she was sorry.

Ohhhhhh, blech. But here's another thing. I haven't really missed her because she's a lot like my mother. She triggers me in the same way.

Thanks for listening.

Bug,

Most people do not understand standing or DB principals.

Until they attempt to put them into practice.

That is the reason we say not to tell a lot of the gory details to friends and family.

Sometimes...

that means that we change our R with them. Reducing contact, seeming to withdraw, not talking about certain topics, and setting boundaries regarding other things.

In my own situation, I cut off all contact with friends and family (other than required holiday stuff) for almost two years.

I was on a path that was of my choosing, that people could not or did not understand or support.

When I finally decided that I wanted to renew some of those R, yes I had some fences to mend, but I also found that I was very choosy as to which of them I put my energy into.

So, is this woman and this friendship worth the energy you are giving it?

It's ok if it isn't.

Hugs to you labug ((()))

You just wanted her to listen instead of fix it for you? Geez, you're such a girl.

Seriously, though, I feel your pain to some extent. I get touches of that from own Mom. Throughout my situation, I have tended to steer clear of those that don't buy in to what I'm doing. I have to be able to look myself in the mirror someday and look my S in the eye someday and honestly say I did everything possible to save my M. I honestly don't think it's possible or even practical to get even. The only winners are those who save themselves and grow through this process.

Hang in there, labug!

Thanks, (((cat)))

That's pretty much been my thinking on the issue. I shared a fair amt with her and she was "there" for me in the beginning but she's a fixer. She had all the answers. This was all before finding DB.

Now I know those boundaries and how to avoid a discussion about the R.

"So, is this woman and this friendship worth the energy you are giving it?" I'm thinkin' no.

I feel much better just getting it out.

Ahh bug you got us now. Tell her the monkey said to go to h#ll!..kidding btw.

Thanks, Mnky! My peeps!

Glad u feel better bugsy. Sometimes we need to tell even the most well meaning people to BTFO! Many r gonna think we're crazy for standing for our M's.

Xoxo

How come she gets bugsy and i get banana bread? :P lol!

What I've really learned through this DB process is recognizing what I don't want as well. Do you feel that way? I recognize how I'm a fixer so I've made a concious effort to step back. And I really see it when people are trying to tell me what to do. So I'm learning to set boundaries with friends as well. I had to talk to bff and luckily she got the hint.

Whatever path you take.. We'll support you. It's a different story when it's suddenly your own M you're fighting for!

Thanks (((bf))) aka banana bread,

Yes, I think that as I begin to correct and reject those behaviors in me I become more sensitive to them in others.

I have the same problem with my friends and family. ZZI've said too much, they want me to just divorce the bum. My one friend has been trying to be on my DBing side. But she has decided a year is too long.

Now she just wants me to bail and be happy. I'm not sure it will make me happy. I'm also not sure I'm going to have a choice.

Bt Labug, I say do what feels fight to you!

Aloha,

Wendy

Whoa banana bread....all of my many nicknames for you are the highest forms of endearments. Must be one of those LL snafus here ha ha?

Bugsy - not only does DB'ing feel counterintuitive to us, it really seems crazy to most people who would tell us to ditch the WAS.

This is one of the things that happens throughout the DB process.

Truthfully, you really can't know what you want, if you don't know what you DONT want.

Something that many of us find with hindsight (boy what a wonderful thing) is that we never clearly understood what we wanted, in a partner, in a marriage, in a job, in life in general.

We had this idea that we wanted to "be happy, be healthy," etc... very general ideas.

Without being able to define those things, we just sort of go through life. And then something like a bomb comes along, and throws us for a loop.

As we really start to look at things, our past, our present, what we would like our future to look like, we start to find the definitions and our future suddenly becomes much clearer and hopefully, much brighter.

It is a tool that will serve you well as you move down this road.

Love this wisdom ^^^^

One rabbit stew coming right up!!

I am enjoying your thread Lady, hope you are well, enjoy the weekend!

Bugsy - not only does DB'ing feel counterintuitive to us, it really seems crazy to most people who would tell us to ditch the WAS.

Literally everyone outside of the DB community has told me to divorce the wife and move on. She said its over what part don't you understand? < so tired of hearing this from "friends."

Bug I think that once we stop taking 100% of the blame for the demise of our Ms we wonder. I think most of us blame our selves for the whole thing and it is reinforced by our spouses statements and behaviors. So knowing what you don't want is progress and clarity.

Mnky I hear ya. Tomorrow i go to bros house he had surgery today and it his bday. I will hear it all day, move in with, get a new chick u know what i mean...

Ps Bug and me still don't get what killing. Hobo means?????

Just a euphemism for GALing.I'm really a very gentle simian..

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still Dead!

So, it's been a good week. I told my IC on Monday that I thought I was reaching "critical mass" on topic of Just Who Is LaBug?

About the friend I distanced myself from: I don't really miss her. It had always been a strained relationship for me as I never felt I quite measured up to her expectationsand she was always giving me "advice" on my kids, job, H, etc. My problem was, I didn't say "Thanks, but I don't need advice, just an ear."

I had urges to call and try to "fix" it only because I was worried about what she thought about me. Yes, that old bugaboo, other people's opinions. Decided, not my business and kept moving forward. Setting limits and taking care of myself.

I do have compassion for her and don't dislike her it's just that I choose not to have her energy in my life right now.

I won't be perfect at setting boundaries in the beginning but the more I do it, the better I'll get.

Planted some flowers this week which always makes me happy. Of course in a month or so they'll be shriveled due to the heat but they'll make me happy until then. And I refuse to obsess about the money I spent on them only to have them die.

Went to a movie "Red Tails" with S19 last night and out for pizza. Our relationship has improved so much in the last year, in looking back it's almost unbelievable. We have created a deep bond built on mutual respect and understanding that will last through the years.

Today is Alanon and then to the Festival of Books. This is a huge event that has hundreds of authors giving talks, exhibits, book sellers, food, movies. And it's a beautiful day for it.

Trying to keep my feet and mind firmly planted in today, not worrying about the future or obsessing about the past.

All in all, I'm beginning to believe that I am enough.

Good morning labug! Your post was the first I got to this today and it made me smile! Very happy for you, especially about your relationship with your son! Have an awesome Saturday!!

Great post Bug!!

You are enough and more. Your husband is crazy.

So, is LaBug? Besides the awesome person I see here and helps me (and so many others) get through each day.

Let this counter the "bugaboo" - you are in the top five people in my life that I like and respect. Don't think I'm alone there...

Great post, labug! The things you've gained this past year are awesome life achievements. So nice to see someone take this journey and make something truly good out of it, regardless of the outcome of the m. That is something I would love to do as well.

Mimi

^^^^^I'm with the monkey....

Thanks, to both or you. When I first started here and read people talking about the community and friendships that happen, I thought "Yeah, right!"

Those people were right. We may not always agree on things, but we respect each other, understand where each is coming from and give support. You guys make me hopeful because there are men who want to work on themselves and work to create a better relationship.

I like coming here to clean the crap out of my head and get my daily dose of steel for my backbone.

Grmpy-thanks.

Mnky=thanks, we're past the bugaboo.

You might like the movie Red Tails, about the Tuskegee Airman flying in WWII Italy. Cheesy dialogue and the acting not Oscar quality but the air-to-air combat scenes were pretty interesting. S19 loves this stuff. I think he can name every military plane ever! Amazing.

We had a presence at the local theaters on opening night. One those guys is buried here in our National Cemetery. Pretty silly seeing park rangers in the lobby of a theater.

Bug - you are definitely enough!

I believe you're a fruit wearing dancing queen! Definitely a smoky pepper.

La, your sitch and mine differ in many ways but I have learned so much and have been inspired by many of your posts. Sometimes they challenge me.. Sometimes they make me sad.. And sometimes they just make me laugh! I feel very priviledged to be walking this road with you!

"Trying to keep my feet and mind firmly planted in today, not worrying about the future or obsessing about the past.

All in all, I'm beginning to believe that I am enough."

I really like this ^^^! Great attitude and mindset! And as Laura Schlesinger used to say... Now, go take on the day!

Bugsy...your post was truly inspiring. You're really someone to admire. Your son and you having a night like that is so nice to hear...that's what life is all about. Your strength shines through everytime you speak to us all.

A very nice day yesterday.

Went to Alanon where the topic was self-criticism and how we let those critical voices in our heads rule us today. One person shared that she looked at those voices as junk mail. If I allow myself to be upset about the amt of junk mail I get, or take the time to open it to see what it is, or be resentful that I've taken time to be on the no junk-mail list, and still I get junk mail, I'm giving it too much power. However if I just throw it in the trash without opening it, it's gone.

Same with those old critical messages. Recognize what they are and don't open them. THROW THEM IN THE TRASH. What they are saying is not of value, the act of throwing them away is.

Stopped at one of my favorite GW Stores on the way home and found 2 books, Passionate Marriage and Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

S19 and I went to the Book Festival which was interesting. He got to show me his knowledge of the campus and I got to practice not offering driving or choice of route suggestions.

The biggest exhibitors at the Festival seemed to be NPS(we have lots of National Parks in AZ) and the folks selling e-readers. Hard to believe that in the not to distant future, "real" books will be a relic of the past.

The weather was perfect for an outdoor event, 70 was probably the high and there was no wind. Lots of people were taking advantage of the day.

I did have one weird moment. There were a lot of people there, lots of young families and couples and I thought "Wonder who of these is going to have the bomb dropped on them this week?"

I quickly dropped that junk mail in the trash and moved on.

"I did have one weird moment. There were a lot of people there, lots of young families and couples and I thought "Wonder who of these is going to have the bomb dropped on them this week?"

I quickly dropped that junk mail in the trash and moved on."

I like this.... a lot!! Nice job, labug!!

Thanks, 2.

Another thing from the Book Festival yesterday...

Divorce Recovery had a booth and are in the process of making a book with a child's rules for divorce.

They had several topics on a big flip chart and kids could indicate those that were important to them by placing sticky stars next to them.

Those with the most stars were: Spend big occasions together, don't talk negatively about the other parent, don't put kids in the middle. There were others but unfotunately there were a lot of people around that booth and I couldn't see the rest.

Food for thought.

OOOOO- I would TOTALLY buy the kid's book!! Can't wait for it to be released!!

I like the idea of putting it in the trash. I'll try to visualize that next time the negatives come creeping up in my head!

Sounds like it was an enjoyable time with S, and I'm sure he appreciated not having the driving tips

Bug, the mental image of throwing stuff in the trash is STRONG. I have a certain trash can I throw junk mail in, a stainless steel one with a foot-pedal and lid. I'll use that as my visualization tool when I get those pesky thoughts.

As everyone else has stated Bug, u r all that and then some!! Your posts are fantastic and u r a great asset to all of us here.

Wishing u the best!!

The biggest exhibitors at the Festival seemed to be NPS(we have lots of National Parks in AZ).

Lies, all lies I tell ya!!

^^^^Probably

Labug, caught up on your sitch and really can identify with all you are saying, especially unsolicited advice from "friends." I saw my H for the first time in 6 weeks on Friday and I spent the weekend reeling. I thought I was doing well with GAL and detaching, but appears that I failed on every one of those bullets. He has spent a lot of time contacting me via text recently and I have found myself expecting it....so I put your quote on my phone about living life with no expectations.

Do you have any specific tape recommendations about detaching? I have sooooo much respect for you and the time you have put into this board.

Just to get this out of my head.

Had an interesting FB exchange with H's nephew, whom I hardly know. He was born after we had moved away and his father and H were never close. The times I've met N, I've enjoyed him and then when he married, his wife.

He's an only child with a very controlling mother. She makes me look like a slacker. He's an MD and married a beautiful young woman who is a dancer. I think they met in HS. Even 1800 miles away I could tell that Mamma wasn't pleased but, oh well.

They've been married about 7-8 years and have a cute 4 yr old boy.

And now they're separated. He poured this whole story out to me on FB chat last night. Everything! He was either really hurting or drinking a little or both, because I don't think we've ever had a private conversation.

Gave no advice, listened and validated, mentioned a couple of books and told him to contact me if he needed to talk. He asked me not to say anything to "the family" because if his mother found out certain things she could make his life hell because she's vindictive and would lash out at the W. At least he figured that out.

Interesting thing, he didn't know H and I are separated. His parents were here visiting in Oct and I guess they just didn't notice that I wasn't around and H just acted like everything was normal. Don't know the whole story but this is an illustration of how closed that family is around emotions and sharing. Just act like everything is normal!

So, I'm sad by this news. They've been separated since Nov and it sounds like D is their next step.

Not a good nephew story...bummer

OTOH, your posts always have an undertone of honest self evaluation, and looking out at the world and figuring our how to live in it based on your self analysis.

(((Bugsy)))

Sorry about your nephew's sitch Bug. He is extremely fortunate to have you as his confidant.

Wow I'm sorry that your nephew is in that spot, and thankful he had your ear even if through fb chat.

Thinking of you (((labug)))

Would you feel comfortable telling your nephew about this board if there was some chance he's realize who you were and follow your thread?

I think a lot about evangelizing DB/DR. I believe most divorce we see in this country is just wrong. I am so angry so many people are too selfish to respect their vows and give their kids the most important thing they can receive.

I don't know if there is anything you can say to a WAS to sway them. I'd like to tell friends of hurting marriage partners that advocating for divorce is just not right. There are alternatives.

I'd like for the WAS and friends of WAS, (and friends of LBS) to know there are alternatives, and that marriage is worth it, especially when there are kids. I don't know if there ways of reaching these people, but:

I'm pretty sure that 1/3 or 1/4 men out there are future LBHs who need a 2x4 to the head quite badly. I wish that someone could have reached me before it was too late.

Well, your nephew is probably too late to prevent flipping the WAW switch, if that's what he has going on.

But if someone could have put me on a path of DBing in the first two months of my sitch, I'd be putting my M back together.

Maybe none of this applies to your nephew, but I wish there were some way to reach more people teetering on divorce and put them on the right path.

I guess the problem is that most of our society puts more value on "I guess I'm not happy and I don't feel like working on it" than on "In sickness and in health, richer or poorer, etc, etc"

Sorry for the threadjack. I know that your N couldn't have a better person to have contacted in this situation. He is really luck to have you available to him, labug.

I'm just venting about the problem in general, I guess.

I wish people in new relationships have a program available to them that lays out the emotional and practical realities of M. I'm sure that stuff is out there, it doesn't seem to be obvious though that its available.

^^^^
sad part is when you're starting a new relationship most people don't realize they need that stuff....

I have to start a new thread, Dagnabit!

Dagnabit!

New thread.

You know it's funny you say that. Once you go through something you tend to wonder about/notice whether other people are going through it, too. When I was first diagnosed, I would be at the metro, look at all the people and think, "I wonder how many of these people have had cancer? I wonder how many will?" It's distressing, but also makes you feel less alone to think that others have experienced the same things. Kind of like this board!

Mimi