When it's a one-way street...part 3

[Crazyville]

If there is no urgency, then the problem is either not that bad or the problem has changed.

If you are feeling no sense of urgency to work on your M, then the problem may not be solving the M. The problem may be simply trying to survive the next 8 years.

Last week, I got chastised because my sense of urgency translated into "hounding" my husband for an email he was going to send.

I'm guessing your parents' criticism often came out in the form of disdain if you didn't know something, did something in the wrong manner, made a factual mistake, uses poor grammar??

When you ask something like this, do you really want an answer, or is this just something you want me to think about? I hesitate to answer, because my answer may not be in agreement with your statement, then I'm accused of being argumentative. At the same time, I've gotten chastised by KD for not answering every question, that I'm somehow intentionally withholding.

Stop trying to be right for one week.

As demonstrated by the points above, I don't feel like I'm right -- ever. I have my perspective, but I acknowledge it as being only that -- it doesn't mean I'm trying to be "right."

SBT says, plan, do, observe results, adjust as necessary...

Your challenge: Current reality: My H carries strong feelings for his college sweetheart. My problem: I don't know how to have a healthy M when there's another "love," especially when reality can never compete with fantasy. SBT: Tell me one specific thing I should do this minute, proactively or in response to the question, and the intended goal behind the action, what to observe, and potentially what to adjust.

[Crazyville]

I'm really getting some insight into Accuray's W's situation.

This feels completely hopeless to me right now. Not my M, but my efforts to improve myself. I really just want to throw in the towel and say, "Forget it. This is what you get, H, take it or leave it. I don't have the energy or insight or ability to do whatever needs to be done, because I just don't GET IT and it's driving me crazy. At least with my normal dysfunction, I can at least still function. This makes me want to crawl into a hole and die, so I'll take my normal dysfunction over this any day."

[~ kd ~]

Last week, I got chastised because my sense of urgency translated into "hounding" my husband for an email he was going to send.

Yes.

It was not because of what you were doing, rather HOW you were doing. And SBT type suggestions on how to do it differently were offered.

Did you change how you were presenting to your H?

If so, how were the responses of your H different?

If not, why not?

...I've gotten chastised by KD for not answering every question, that I'm somehow intentionally withholding.

Yes, I did ask you to answer every question.

I am not asking you to come up with the RIGHT answers. I am asking you to come up with AN answer.

What that entails is, making a choice. If we won't make a choice, then we are avoiding making a choice (or rather, we are choosing to continue to stay stuck; or put another way, we are choosing to stay in "planning" mode).

This goes back to "confident expectations".

Funny thing... people walk done the street every day and trip over a curb, stair, whatever... we TRUST that our feet will take us there. We ignore the reality that our feet may fail us. Yet we do, anyhow.

If we accepted the reality that we might fall, would that stop us from making a choice to walk?

If I want to start a business, I can sit and think about it. I can say, "I don't know how to start. I don't want to do this, I don't want to do that, I want to think about this. I want to plan this, because I don't want to do it wrong (which is the SAME as saying I want to do it right)."

When the reality is, when we want to start a business, we start doing business. We get a phone number. We get an address. We open a bank account. We send out marketing and advertising.

If we do not do these things, then we are not doing business.

It could be the wrong phone number. It could be the wrong address. It could be the wrong bank. It could be poor quality advertising.

But we won't know, unless we do. So we choose to do and we start doing and we observe and we course correct.

But the first choice HAD to be made. We had to choose AND COMMIT to starting and operating a business.

Your challenge: Current reality: My H carries strong feelings for his college sweetheart. My problem: I don't know how to have a healthy M when there's another "love," especially when reality can never compete with fantasy. SBT: Tell me one specific thing I should do this minute, proactively or in response to the question, and the intended goal behind the action, what to observe, and potentially what to adjust.

The solution to the above is, become an attractive option. Not in a competitive way. Rather, become a woman that only a fool would leave. Your H may or may not be that fool.

The question before the plan is, are you prepared to do what it takes to be the BEST option for ANY man, even if you fail to keep your H?

Answer that question and then we can plan accordingly.

The real question may be:

Why would you want to stay M to your H?

[Accuray]

Why do I always sense when I've been mentioned? It's like my spider sense tingles. It's weird:

I'm really getting some insight into Accuray's W's situation.

This feels completely hopeless to me right now. Not my M, but my efforts to improve myself. I really just want to throw in the towel and say, "Forget it. This is what you get, H, take it or leave it. I don't have the energy or insight or ability to do whatever needs to be done, because I just don't GET IT and it's driving me crazy. At least with my normal dysfunction, I can at least still function. This makes me want to crawl into a hole and die, so I'll take my normal dysfunction over this any day."

I never treated my W the way your H treats you. My W's issues precede me and don't have that much to do with me other than that I can exacerbate them and they bother me.

Also, my W knows EXACTLY what to do to promote my happiness -- she does get it. She just feels that acting that way is not who she is, she's accepted who she is, and therefore she's not going to do it.

MC says that acceptance, not happiness, is the goal line, and my W has achieved acceptance of herself in her unhappy state. He feels that's more important than achieving happiness but not accepting who you are.

My W has "given up" on her own happiness and self-improvement. You are talking about giving up on your marriage. Those are two very different outcomes.

Reading over this CV, the posters are saying "CV, you're angry. You're not feeling good about yourself. H has become the lightening rod for your discontent. He may be responsible for a lot of discontent, but with your current mental state, he's not going to win. Nothing he does will work. There will always be more he hasn't done, or something wrong with the way he's done it, and that's a reflection on you, not on him."

I also see the posters saying "You think you'll be happy with H gone, but you won't. Something or someone else will take H's place of being the rock in your shoe."

CV, I don't know if I agree with that assessment or not. Honestly, you are difficult for me to understand. You're obviously very very smart and in many ways very motivated and self-aware, but you also seem to have some blind spots.

Those blind spots could just be my misunderstanding because of the difficulty of this medium, or they could be real. I don't know.

There is definitely so much frustration and ire directed at H, but the examples you give of why he deserves that don't seem that bad. Maybe that's why there's the disconnect. We can't see the non-verbal communication or hear the tone of voice. You may also be expecting him to mind-read and can't believe that he does such a bad job of it. I don't know.

You've had a hard day here. How about talking about what makes you happy? Can you answer these questions?

1) What are you doing when you are your happiest?

2) When you're doing that, what are you thinking about? Where does your mind go?

3) What are you most proud of in terms of who you are?

4) When you think about an ideal marriage for you, what does it look like? What level of intimacy do you have? Is your H doting, or independent?

5) If you could take 4 weeks off from work with no responsibilities and a reasonable amount of money, what would you do?

Maybe we can try focusing on what makes you feel good about you, and forget the problems and issues for now. I think your posters are getting you rolled up in a carpet today, and maybe that's not productive.

Accuray

[25yearsmlc]

I don't know. If I had to throw something out, I would say my parents were critical. But see, now you're going against the principles of SBT. I've peeled this onion so many times with other counselors, it's almost nauseating at this point. Maybe this is just something that needs to be side-barred until after the EE conference. You're asking me to go against the principles of SBT, and it's taken me a long time to get here. I don't want to go back.

we are NOT going against SBT here. Your pain/anger and resistance, is the elephant in the room. It's why SBT isn't yet working in your sitch.

[Crazyville]

It was not because of what you were doing, rather HOW you were doing. And SBT type suggestions on how to do it differently were offered. Did you change how you were presenting to your H?
If so, how were the responses of your H different? If not, why not?

Again, I couldn't "redo" what had happened. But in a subsequent convo, he said he was going to do something. I haven't asked for or even mentioned it since. Last night, he volunteered that he had put some effort into it and was really proud of it, but that he was still working on it. I'm waiting quietly, not "hounding." I'm having a hard time reconciling the week(+/-) with a sense of urgency. But I AM keeping quiet. Not claiming it's perfect, but I did listen and apply. His response was different in that he didn't accuse me of hounding him, but not different in that he promises a lot but rarely delivers.

If we accepted the reality that we might fall, would that stop us from making a choice to walk?

This depends upon the risk. Walking, no. Jumping out of an airplane, yes.

The solution to the above is, become an attractive option. Not in a competitive way. Rather, become a woman that only a fool would leave. Your H may or may not be that fool.

The question before the plan is, are you prepared to do what it takes to be the BEST option for ANY man, even if you fail to keep your H?

Answer that question and then we can plan accordingly.

I don't think you understand the problem. H isn't leaving me for her, because that's not a simple choice. He's M'd, she's M'd, lives in a different state, etc. My problem is wrapping my head around knowing that given the option to turn back time, he would choose to be with her, and that he carries that in his head with him, TODAY. I can't be good enough to offset fantasy. No one can. So your question really becomes, am I prepared to do what it takes to be the SECOND BEST option for H? I can answer that I am at least capable, if not prepared at this very moment (just being honest, please don't chew me up.) What about MY part? Beyond what I "do," I don't know what to "be." This doesn't fit into my definition of what M is supposed to look like. So, fine, I redefine it. To what? What is the GOAL?

I am interested to hear your feedback, to hear what I'm supposed to do to somehow offset H's fantasy.

The real question may be: Why would you want to stay M to your H?

Vows, religions beliefs, convenience, ease for family and friends, structure for son, financial stability, etc. It's all I've got right now. If he's not contributing to (not responsible for) my happiness, I don't know how to have any reason beyond that.

[25yearsmlc]

I suppose this sounds like an excuase, but I simply don't know how to do it. Again, if I did, I wouldn't have these problems.

if he is having an EA NOW, then it's not "history", it's an issue to work on.

Have you told your h that it hurts you, (or have you assumed he knows or ought to know?)

I did comment that I don't believe he knows you love him (do you? I mean I can't tell)

and if he truly does not feel loved by you then it's very easy to see how he'd rationalize an affair, even just an EA.

We all need some intimacy in our lives and if the old flame gives that to him, you might want to look at how empty HIS love tank is.

I say that b/c you don't seem to think you play any role in his behavior.

I am not making you responsible for him, but I AM saying it did not occur in a vacuum.

I say all that based on your words here. I appreciate your honesty here.

[~ kd ~]

We don't have to redo. We have to observe and adjust.

We say around here that there is very little that will tank an M right then and there, no if and or buts, done, done, done...

So a plan that didn't work well simply needs to be adjusted as necessary.

On jumping out of an airplane, are you saying that there is no way that you could ever trust someone to pack your chute?

There are many tens of thousands of people who DO trust someone to pack their chutes and come out successful after a jump.

If you make a choice to never jump, that is fine. You made a choice. Of course, you can always CHANGE that choice down the road. But the choice itself is never right or wrong.

Saving your M or becoming a woman only a fool would leave is your choice. Either choice is neither right nor wrong.

Choose, plan, act, observe, adjust.

The real question may be: Why would you want to stay M to your H?

Vows, religions beliefs, convenience, ease for family and friends, structure for son, financial stability, etc. It's all I've got right now. If he's not contributing to (not responsible for) my happiness, I don't know how to have any reason beyond that.

That was great! That really, really was. I am glad you have offered other reasons that just your S.

With or without the reasons and it IS ok to have reasons, it is about the choice. And you are making that choice...

are you...? Like really, really...?

Then it takes me back to the question about the time. How long do you want to be in planning mode?

Just make a choice. One week...? One month...?

Just make a choice. Making the choice ups the urgency and the intention and you responsibly put yourself into a position to MOVE yourself in a direction.

As of right now, I am gone for the weekend and will not be back until late sunday at the earliest.

[~ kd ~]

oh and just quick on the EA. I see that could actually be much more powerful in your "choice to be a WAS" than originally anticipated.

I thought I read that you got over it. Obviously, you are attached to a belief that your H would rather be with someone else, so you decided to leave FIRST. To be fair, I am not saying that you are being mean or bad. I am just saying that is how it can look to an outside observer.

Underlying pain and fear and your actions over the past 6 months, year, 4 years... could all revolve around that.

That may have been very helpful to know, earlier. It's OK that info is only coming out now or perhaps is just being put on the table because you are working through it and now feel comfortable putting it there.

Again, the solution is to grow. Become an even better person... woman... than you already are. Because even if your H does leave you for this EA, at least you can say he was a fool.

[~ kd ~]

I'm sorry. Geeze, I have to go... but please understand that I am not saying that he IS leaving.

At least not physically.

But an EA is just as much "gone" as a PA.

So when I talk about him leaving you, I am not necessarily talking about it from a physical perspective. Although the way you describe it, if things were different and it was just you and this OW, that you truly believe he would choose her...

And that... could REALLY hurt... which explains a lot...