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#2224301 02/22/12 11:19 PM
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zig Offline OP
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hi everyone
i'm new to this board and simply don't know where to start. i feel that there is soooo much to describe that it will be too long and no one will have the patience to read through the whole thing. so i will try to be as brief as possible.

my husband of 10 yrs said he had met someone else and moved out 6 months ago. he said that even though he loved me he "needed to explore and pursue this other thing". the ow is the sister of an old friend of his and she lives several states away. in the last 6 mos he has been down to see her a few times and she has been here once.

the first 2 months there were endless hours of talking almost everyday, a ton of crying - by both of us as i owned my part completely and wholeheartedly. his stance at that point was - i blame you 100% for ruining our marriage. i started detaching and pulling away as soon as i could, but he kept us in a confused chaotic place by constantly calling and coming over. at first i allowed him to do that, and several times tried to talk him into coming back and each time of course was met with more resistance. there was a HUGE amount of anger on his part, and now i realize that i did a total 180 right away and never responded with anger, but only with kindness and compassion and as much understanding as i could muster.
around the third month, i came across a website and signed up and started reading and it basically gave the same advice that michelle gives in her book - detach, practice apathy, get your own life and act happy no matter what. it also said to just keep telling him that i was happy for him and even though i wished it had worked out differently i was willing to get on with my life without him.

so i have done that assiduously for the last 3 months.

we have a 10 year old son, who is obviously quite affected by this, but will absolutely NOT show a thing to anyone , esp his father, and only to me. in fact he makes a point of being extra happy when he is with his dad and then when he comes back to me he lets it out a bit. H and i alternate so that he is one week at my house and one week at H's.

the general gist of what is going on is that whenever i pull back and am having fun, we will land up having a conversation where H cries and gets really emotional and tells me that he is terribly conflicted about what to do, but he's not willing to give up ow. i don't respond much and whereas earlier i would use that as an opportunity to ask him to reconsider , i completely stopped doing that. he says that he didn't expect me to react like this and be so amazing, and it put him in a terrible state of confusion. i have consistently been friendly, supportive, taken part on all family situations with a big smile on my face and never not once since this whole mess started been angry to him or accusatory.

about a month ago he tried to talk me into buying a second house so he could live rent free (he is the one with the job - i don't have work) and that way we could cut our shared expenses , because the house he is renting is quite expensive. i told him that it was not my responsibility to figure out his living situation - that he had chosen to do this, and that he had to figure out his own living situation. there was a perfectly good home right here and if he chose not to be here he had to figure out where he was going to be and how , on his own. i also told him that instead of just saying that he was conflicted, if he was so sure that he wanted to be with this other person, he should go right ahead and do it openly - that i was not going to hold him back. at one point i told him that i was happy to divorce and let him go if he was genuinely happy with the ow.

earlier he had admitted that he wanted an emotional divorce, but he wanted to stay married so i could have the health insurance.

well there has been a distinctive shift in the last 2 weeks - he is being much nicer - i am not sensing any anger form him for about the last month, and last week when our son was very sick, instead of leaving it to me, he came and stayed for 3 days at the house and we really shared in taking care of him through the night. H and i got ill too, and we took care of each other also. the atmosphere was really peaceful and i could tell that when it was time for him to leave he seemed reluctant to do so and seemed quite emotional. he came back the following 2 days and spent the afternoons here. i stayed relaxed and detached but friendly and made sure we didn't have any personal conversations, and also let him know before he left how much i appreciated feeling that we had done this togehter

i feel that he is definitely relaxing around me for the first time in all these months, and i'm not sure what to do next. believe me, i am not getting all my hopes up as i didn't even expect this yet. i have worked really hard at setting boundaries and not allowing him to keep bringing up little things from the past all the time, consistently pointing out ot him that we are in the now, and things are different. 2 or 3 times in the last few weeks, i have firmly told him that he can leave right this moment when he has started to act up and try to make us have a fight. it seems as if that has been very effective in getting him to be more respectful( i see it in the way that if he can keep finding reasons to be angry with me, he can keep justifying what he is doing)

a good development for us very recently has been that we have managed to have conversations where we have resolved some issue instead of landing up being irritated and pissed off, and i feel as if he has made quite an effort to do that - more than me in fact.

last sunday, he actually suggested the 3 of us go out to lunch before we went to buy a b'day present for his dad.

michelle says in her book that look and notice the small successes and don't miss them. but how do i know that these are "successes" rather than that he is just trying to be nice so he can get what he wants?

i know that in a way i have made it seem that things are going "well" but i can't tell if they are or not. i know i have to be very patient and this will take a very long time, but i don't really know how to detach in this situation, where we have almost daily contact because of our son and he is once in a while here, for parties or to eat dinner - and i don't know if i should continue to allow that to happen or not.

so i am sorry this is so long, and i look forward to what you all have to say. of course, there is much left out, but will post again soon with a pressing issue that i need to deal with in the next few days and could really use some help with

thanks so much for reading:)
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Feb 2012
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oh i'm excited - my post has finally showed up after moderation, and i look forward to opinions and advice from you all:)

well - i screwed up yesterday - and sort of lost it - lost my precious patience that i have cultivated fro all these months. i have been trying for 6 mos. to get him to acknowledge that our son is emotionally really affected by this- in the first couple of months any suggestion of this by me would incite so much anger that i stopped saying anything, for almost 4 mos - unless he asked me and then i would tell him what i saw or felt about what s10 was going through.
now things are getting more obvious with s10 so that H;s parents have decided to go to therapy themselves to find out how they can help, and there have been several things that have been quite upsetting that i decided that now i had to push him to go specifically to co-parenting counseling

instead of listening and understanding what i was talking about - he started what i think of as wife bashing - lay into me with all the reasons why are marriage was [censored] and "how mean i had been to him for 10 yrs" and i simply got fed up in a big way, and told him some pretty harsh things - like i wish we didn't have a kid so then i wouldn't have to speak to or see you ever again - i wasn't super angry or anything but just fed up.

we landed up talking over 4 separate conversations, and in between i had to ask our son if he would stay until thursday with H because he was leaving to go abroad for 3 and 1/2 weeks and son just flat out said no, he wanted to be here with me and maybe if he felt like it would go over to his dad's for a night.

i was shocked - they adore each other and i never expected to hear our son say this - i think he is mad because his father keeps taking off on trips and this one is almost a month. it felt awful to tell H this , especially after some of the stuff i had said to him earlier. but i was still fed up with him - for 2 months he had been implying strongly that he was gone for a little over 2 weeks and then i finally found out 2 days ago that it was in fact almost a month (a few days of the work trip are with OW - he's taking a detour by her town!) i'm genuinely not mad about that - i've known about that for 2 months - it was about being given the impression that he was gone for a lot shorter time (a trigger form the past - he always under-informed until the last minute and i'd have to pick up major slack)

so all in all by the 4th conversation i finally got through to him, and i believe it was partly because he was so shocked himself that our son didn't want to be with him - it was the first direct "hit" after all these months from our son to him

he agreed that he would set up an apptmt before he left on his trip for when he came back - i firmly told him that he had to do exactly that, it was not enough to say it, and if he didn't then i would go on my own and make my own decisions and he couldn't question them afterwards.

this morning i realized that i needed to back pedal, as michelle says - i was angry yesterday and frustrated and felt as if i had undone months of hard work. so i called him - rare for me - and validated all that he had said, apologized for being so harsh, but frankly didn't take anything back, told him i agreed with everything he said about us including that we were better off without each other that he was right, and that i too did not want to be with him right now but that i was not backing off from going to co-parenting together.

I asked that even though he was so crazy angry and resentful towards me still, could he accept that i knew that very very well and would keep it in my mind but that when we talked about our son, he didn't bring it up and make that what the conversations were about.

we actually ended on a much better note than i expected, especially after i validated that it was really important for him that he went on this trip and i was really proud of what he was doing - which i genuinely am

so how bad did i mess up on the DB'ing path -

on the other hand, this morning i made an appointment with a pro-marriage counselor and am hoping she's read michelle's books and will see her next mon.

did i mention that i am a total pathetic wallowing mess, and it has finally got through to me now, that i HAVE to move on and let go for now,

i AM working hard on myself - god knows i have some serious issues that i need to work through - and i KNOW that this needed to happen to really wake me up to what i had been - ironically everyone except him is loving and enjoying the new better me

i am amazed though at all the insight that i am still getting into what our situation was and about our relationship even after six months - and i can see more and more how difficult it was for him. i can also see how difficult it was for me a little bit more now- and also beginning to really realize how much i was in denial about the trouble of our relationship

well, one of my definite problems is that i am a babbler - i cannot condense what i have to say - started after concussion from a car accident and still one of the things i have to work on, so i am sorry that my posts are already so long

thanks to everyone that this forum exists and i look forward to hearing from you
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
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zig Offline OP
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while i was reading some other posts i realized that i think i really screwed up yesterday - i can't remember what i said specifically but what H heard was that i accused him of giving up on our marriage without giving us a real shot. (the fact is he vehemently denied for 10 yrs that he was unhappy, even though i sensed he was and always replied - you're the one that's f**ked up, and unhappy not me. then the day he told me he was leaving he said that he was always unhappy)

he brought it up this morning and i can't even quite remember what i said - something along th lines of that he was right, he did try really hard

i know i feel the former - because in the beginning after the breakup he admitted to me that he would never have left if he hadn't met her. he also did say that he had been thinking about leaving for quite awhile, but wouldn't have pushed himself to do it .

the weird thing was that from the year before, both our families as well as myself had really noticed and talked several times about how it seemed that finally after all these years, H and i were doing so much better and were so much happier!!

i guess, i'll describe a bit in my next post are more than rocky start and the extremely stressful events during our 10 yrs

oh and i guess another crucial piece of the puzzle - i think there's MLC - the motorbike that he just simply had to have even though we absolutely did not have the money and the road trip he just had to take (actually back to visit and be in the area where he had his most "fun" years) and that's when he met the OW - 2 days after he picked up the bike - can you believe the luck!!!!! oh i paid for the bike - thinking - he never ever asks for anything ever, so now after all these years when he is asking how can i say no? ironic, huh/ guess i'm a bit pissed about it still!!

well enough venting!!

thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Nov 2009
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Welcome to the board.

You can have no EXPECTATIONS

Get the DR book and read it.
He is asking for SPACE, give it to him.
Let him control the contact
Continue with your detachment.
Get out and GAL.
There are no magic buttons or easy ways out of this.
The only solution is TIME.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.


Me-70, D37,S36
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Zig u sound like an amazing woman. Cadet gave u some real good advice. What were H's complaints about u and the M? What are your ages? What are you doing to keep busy and make yourself happy? Post short and often


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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thank you cadet for all you said. you hit home on all points - especially the gift of time.

i know deep down that i need this time to become a better person.

i did read the DR book just a few days ago - my quandary in this is how to apply everything when there is a child involved - we were both super devoted to this child - but SEPARATELY for years - he always kept it separate - never really allowed us in a way to do everything together - only when it involved the rest of the family.

do i let him come over as often as he likes - offer for him to come? let him have dinner with us - be absolutely kind and generous all the time? or is it better to pull back and go dark? how to go dark if we have to talk about the kid and see him every couple of days

help i am really confused about this.

i'm so overwhelmed right now, that i can't remember exactly what i was doing a few weeks ago that turned everything to a better place, and now i think i just messed it up

we have a bit of a rocky history - very rocky in fact - horribly difficult and i think he just got overwhelmed completely.

i wrote a post last night telling o fhow i totally messed up DB'ing on thursday and now i'm scared - things were actually turning around and i just went and messed everything up!!


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
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zig Offline OP
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rick - your words just made me want to cry - i can't see in the writing where i am amazing - i know everyone tells me that and has been saying for 6 mos, but i know so well how i was as a person and still find myself slipping back if i don't be careful

H's complaints - would fill a book - i was irresponsible - didn't want to shoulder the financial pressures and even though he constantly worried openly to me about it, i just never listened or got involved leaving all the pressure to him - i had serious anger issues, and never realized how extreme my outbursts were - and how incredibly difficult it was for him - i always excused myself saying, well i'm hot headed and he doesn't need to take it so literally.

i became resentful and critical over the years, and also after our son was born became increasingly OCD.

he is 8 yrs younger than me, we met while i was still married to someone else(thought that marriage had been over for a couple of years and my ex at the time was with someone else), we got pregnant by accident, and then my ex divorced me and present H and i got married a couple of weeks after son was born, i moved here to the states, which i was not happy about at the time, and we worked hard the first years - then in the 5th year i had a car accident with severe concussion and neck and back injury- which developed into post concussion syndrome and a movement disorder and i was basically disabled and out of it for 5 yrs. so he had a LOT to deal with - and i think the most crucial thing for him is that with the concussion issues there was no emotional connection whatsoever

it was the same with everyone in my life - as my MIL puts it - you were here physically but you just weren't here.

as i started to get better, during the 5th year, it was almost like he just couldn't take it and got confused - instead of becoming more and more delighted at my progress, he became more confused - his role had become so much of caretaker, that he couldn't switch.

i know that he got really overwhelmed and the ow probably signifies just ease and no worries

i have been super independent since he moved out - really showing him that i can handle everything on my own - i am almost back to normal now, - and it is a huge deal for everyone who knows me as we all expected that i wouldn't ever get better - i worked really hard to get here and have 'woken" up to find that he is gone.

as for what i do with my days - that's the sad part - i used to be a pretty well known artist, and couldn't work for those 5 yrs - totally lost my connection to my work(which was also our big connection) and i am still floundering terribly trying to figure out what to do now for work. how to get back into it again and restart.

apart from what is going on with H, that is my biggest hurdle and challenge - i think i'm physically able, but mentally i still haven't regained my drive to create . i was so incredibly driven before, that i could accomplish really difficult projects - now i have trouble just thinking about it - still get completely overwhelmed when there is more than one thing to do at a time

so in terms of H's list of complaints - well actually it's really really long - an dover the last months, he's pretty much bashed every last aspect of our 10 yrs together, even the good stuff - which has really depressed me terribly, not to mention grinding my slef esteem down into the ground.

i remind myself constantly that he has to do that to continue what he is doing - not to excuse him, but what i have found is that his strategy and behaviour is actually quite transparent - in terms of how hard he is working to convince himself that he is doing the right thing.

the sad thing - and what really confuses and almost paralyses me is that after 6 mos. he is still saying how we have a really deep emotional connection and how he is so conflicted

shoot - my post got way too long again
thanks for helping me out here


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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zig Offline OP
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cadet - i meant to ask - could you please give me some pointers on detachment? especially when there is a child involved and there has to be a lot of contact?

thanks


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
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zig Offline OP
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hi everyone,
GAL progress today - had two girl friends over, one with her son, all three of us single moms w/kids i suppose, and we had dinner together and watched a bollywood movie - lots of good laughs.

son came back today, always a difficult day when transitioning, and so just have to be patient until it rolls over. i haven't been too patient myself today.

for myself - did some reading on detachment to get a better idea of what it really means to detach. and am working on acceptance and how to get my own life. this GAL thing - get a life - but this is the life i have, and i'm finding it very hard to step out of it.

i guess i have to find a new approach toward it, so i can understand what my new aims should be. i need to work on my co-dependency issues, as well as on my self esteem which is definitely stopping me from stepping up to the mark and getting some work going.

also lately the anger over this is starting to well up and i need to channel it correctly so that i am not constantly frustrated about little things. will try to meditate more from now on so that i can focus on getting more peace of mind in this situation. 6mos of obsessing about this day and night - has simply got to stop:)


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
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zig Offline OP
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in a quandary

realized that the last three weeks when i was "allowing" him to be around here more helping and doing little things, he was more relaxed, acting more intimate toward me in the way he spoke and seeming to want to be here.

but now i think i'm very confused - i don't know if he was being nicer because he has a hidden agenda, or if being around us was having a genuine effect on him.

i did , from the beginning cut him off in the way that i wouldn't let him be at the house except the absolute minimum, and wouldn't let him do anything here at all unless it was absolutely unavoidable.

now i'm confused - which is the better way to go. part of me feels that the more i allow him here, the real message i'm giving him is that it's ok that he is doing what he's doing and that i accept it and he gets more comfortable

on the other hand, could it be he needs to see that he is needed here, and it makes him feel good to do things and feel needed in that way (that's definitely his way of showing his love. also i think that the fact that he's a cancer and really believes in home and family is something i should keep in mind

guess i should mention that i asked him to move out after he came back from the first trip to see her after he told me that he was leaving and had met someone else. he wanted to move out because he knew that he couldn't stay here and keep doing it (for himself)

after this back sliding on thursday, we've agreed that we will have some difficult moments though he said ridiculous things like "you and i have a deep connection that will always be there, and strong feelings for each other and that will never change!!

aargh!


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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