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#2224440 - 02/23/12 11:17 AM Thirteen Days In and Hurting
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
Hello, everyone.

On February 10, my husband of 17 years gave me the "I love you but I'm no longer in love with you" speech. He said he is not happy, he wants his freedom, he doesn't want to have to spend his time meeting me for dinner, etc. He said there is no one else in his life, he just wants to be single and do singleton things again.

I think he is having a MLC. He's 41. I'm 37. In the past nine years or so, we've been through two job losses (both his), an abusive job situation (mine), the death of my adopted Grandmother, the death of his father, he returned to school full time and started working full time after a year being out of work, and just recently, he got into trouble at his current job over a holiday bonus. We've also gone from him being the primary income earner in the house to me being the main income source, and taking over the mortgage on the house he bought when he was 21. Also over the past year, he's had a host of health issues, from headaches, to gallbladder surgery, to finding out he has a hernia that causes him to have terribly gastric upset. He's lost about 30 pounds from not being able to eat over the last year.

He doesn't appear to have another person. Perhaps an emotional affair, but not a physical one. He keeps in contact with me about where he will be and when, he doesn't make any untoward financial purchases, he has not set up a separate account that I know of. I am not snooping into his affairs.

But the man I knew, my best friend, my rock, my partner and confidant appears to be replaced with someone who looks like him, sounds like him and yet says some of the most hurtful things he's ever said to me in the course of our marriage. We are still living in the same house, and he wants things in many ways to continue as they always have - he wants my friendship, companionship and for me to be with him for meals and in the evenings, but he doesn't want to be married to me anymore, and says that he no longer sees the "flame" of passionate love he once had for me, so he is no longer in love with me. He wants a way to leave our marriage and still keep our friendship, he says.

I asked him to leave our bedroom and sleep on the pull out couch. He said that since he is no longer in love with me, he does not want to cuddle, kiss, hold hands, hugs, or be affectionate with me. I couldn't deal with that kind of rejection while I was trying to sleep, but every night it's a struggle to not ask him to come back to our bed. I cry myself to sleep most nights.

I started IC almost immediately after the ILYB bomb drop. I have an online support group of very close friends to talk to when I need to. I am keeping a journal. A close work friend knows what's going on in detail, and she is supporting me at work when I need it.

He has arranged to get counseling though his work, and his first appointment was last week. Now, his counselor wants to see us both on Monday. My counselor has loaned me Michele's Divorce Busting book, and I have also ordered the Divorce Remedy book, to be delivered today. I keep re-reading the blog posts, especially the one about surviving your husband's MLC, but I'm terribly afraid that I don't have what it takes to get through the patient, "time takes time" process this is going to take. My husband has always been my very best friend and we shared everything in our lives. Now that's gone, and I feel very alone. I am trying to hold to the mantra that I can't fix him, I can only fix me and that I must give him the space and time he needs to get through this on his own and the greatest proof of my love and belief in our marriage is that I stand back, work on myself, and love him from afar until he is ready to come back.

Advice, comfort, prayers are all appreciated.

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#2224831 - 02/25/12 05:11 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
Cadet Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 5188
Welcome to the board.

Learn about detachment.
You can have no EXPECTATIONS
Get the DR book and read it.
He is asking for SPACE, give it to him.
Get out and GAL.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

MLC takes a lot of time.

USE it wisely.
_________________________
Me-60, D27,S26

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#2225047 - 02/26/12 07:24 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: Cadet]
Rick1963 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 2532
Loc: Piney Land
^^^^
_________________________
M 51
W 50
D 17
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 11/12
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden






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#2225086 - 02/26/12 10:08 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: Rick1963]
purgatory Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 825
Loc: Virginia
I see some similarities to your sitch and mine... you're not alone. That 'emptiness' you see in him, we call that "shark eyes" and we often refer to our WAS as being an alien, because we don't recognize this person anymore. So as painful as it is, it sounds like your H is acting 'normal' for these kinds of situations.

Post often here and on other's threads, so you can get off moderation quicker. Keep reading different threads on here, you never know what bit of information may help you. Check out: BklynMom, Barely Floating, nhmom, labug, keep going and mine (just for a few examples of similar stories.)


The following list is credited to Sandi2- another wise elder on these boards, who successfully reconciled her M with DB efforts. Most of us have copied this list and refer to it OFTEN... especially when we are at our lowest. Find a seat and make sure your safety bar is tight a secure, this roller coaster gets pretty rough and is going to last a while

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
_________________________
M-31, H-31
T-9, M-7
S-6, s-20mth
sep 8/1/11
ILYNILWY 11/29/11
Creating separation papers.
Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12
H moves out 1.20.12

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#2225562 - 02/27/12 10:12 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: purgatory]
Rick1963 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 2532
Loc: Piney Land
^
_________________________
M 51
W 50
D 17
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 11/12
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden






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#2225572 - 02/27/12 10:28 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: Cadet]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8686
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Quote:
I am trying to hold to the mantra that I can't fix him, I can only fix me and that I must give him the space and time he needs to get through this on his own and the greatest proof of my love and belief in our marriage is that I stand back, work on myself, and love him from afar until he is ready to come back.


If you can do this, every day, you will be in the best place you can be.

I wish you luck. Keep reading here. Look at past threads, recent threads, current threads, anything that strikes a chord in you.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2226152 - 02/29/12 04:21 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: labug]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I just reposted, now that we're 19 days in. I didn't see that this had been approved.

I read and re-read that list just about every day. I read pages 54-57 of DR every night before bed to remind myself that "ILYB" doesn't have to be permanent.

We saw my therapist yesterday in a joint session. My husband is so angry with me and my attempts to 180. He called it an "impostor" - the same way I feel about him right now. My gentle, sweet and loving husband is gone and a hard eyed stranger is in his place, saying horrible things.

I am going to work on giving him space, time, detatchment and forgiveness. I will work on what I need to work on within myself in IC, and spend more time out and about. J (my husband) and I have always been very close, and somewhat insular - we did everything together. So I have to unlearn that.

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#2226362 - 03/01/12 10:32 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: labug]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I started the loving distance method last night. I took a walk around the block to get some endorphins going, and let it carry me through the whole night.

J (my husband) was very solicitous toward me last night and wanted to talk, so we talked. I stayed distant and cheerful.

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#2226451 - 03/01/12 02:12 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
Rick1963 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 2532
Loc: Piney Land
When he wants to talk. Just let him and validate. Post some of the things he says on here. How are you today?
_________________________
M 51
W 50
D 17
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 11/12
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden






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#2226459 - 03/01/12 02:50 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: Rick1963]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I'm not sure. Last night's talking was not relationship talking, we had a big three-hour marathon talk Tuesday night about that, and I was left somewhat hopeless. Hence my decision to get started on the loving distance. J's complaints are that I never do anything loving toward him, never take his needs into consideration, never thank him, and always hold grudges over past behavior. Some of those things are true, and I am working in IC to change the things I think need to be changed. I apologized to him sincerely for his hurts.

Last night, he just wanted companionship, so that's what I gave him. But I stopped hugging him (I was allowing myself one hug per day), and when he came in from school, I didn't go find him in his room and kept to myself, but cheerfully. He was much more solicitous than usual. He offered to help me with things, and did nice things for me unasked. I thanked him cheerfully each time.

This morning, he forgot the mail he was going to take to the post office for me, so I brought it with me to take to the post office after work. He emailed me this morning to tell me he was sorry that he forgot about it. I told him that I was sure it just slipped his mind and that I appreciated him doing that for me. He emailed me again at his lunch break to tell me "You're welcome."

Compared to how he was just two days ago and for the weeks since he dropped the "ILYB" bomb, this is a big change. It gives me some hope, but I am going to stay my course with loving distance and working on myself. I even found a belly dance class in my town that's starting soon, so I'm going to join it. I'm very excited about that.

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#2227766 - 03/05/12 03:18 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
An update. We had mostly up days with one more down day yesterday, but at least it ended well. J is leaving school today. (he works full time and goes to school full time. He has done this since 2010)

The decision to withdraw from school is his alone. I listened, validated his feelings and let him set his own course. He did say that "We'll have to start paying on my student loans now" which there's no way he can pay on his own.

I am still reading DR and taking reassurances in the two case studies presented there, and other excerpts. I have also read "I Love You But I Am Not In Love With You" by Andrew G. Marshall, and "This Is Not The Story You Think It Is" by Laura Munson. "ILYB" has given me a great deal of insight into my own behaviors that need to change, and I am working toward that, and a better ability to forgive in IC while giving J the time and distance he needs. (no matter how much I cry after I go to bed at night.)

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#2227770 - 03/05/12 03:33 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
ptcr Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 88
Hi justkelly. Your situation sounds similar to mine except that my H moved out across town and is no longer in the house...easier to detach but awfully lonely. It is so painful, I agree.

I saw my IC this morning and she advised me that I need to "think about things" differently because in doing so I will react differently. I am supposed to be thankful he has this time to himself because otherwise he would NOT have this time to work on himself. My H dropped bomb, moved out, came home 1 week later, continued with EA/PA and moved out again 5 weeks ago today. So, I have to be thankful for this time alone. We were as close as you two sound and it has been difficult since the ILYB bombs. I asked her about the loneliness and she said also that I should see this as a gift. I am very lucky to have quiet time to myself. So....we'll see if I can implement these 2 new thought processes because, I'll be honest, last night I was ready to SCREAM at the pain of this situation. I feel for you.

Did you like those 2 books? I almost ordered both of them...and instead opted for Codependent No More and Women Who Love Too Much. Was also advised to get a book titled, I think, When He Leaves.

Thinking of you....
_________________________
Me: 44 H: 45
Married 22
S 18, S 16
Bomb 8/11, Second Bomb 1/12

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#2227777 - 03/05/12 03:46 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: ptcr]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I really liked "I Love You But I Am Not In Love With You" - but the review on Amazon that said you'd have to stop reading often so you can cry is spot on.

It helped me to realize that J's love language is loving acts, and showing consideration. Mine is physical - touch, kissing, lovemaking, etc. It helped me to realize that we moved from Loving Attachment in our marriage to Loving Regard and there we stayed since we were both giving love only in our own language. Now, I am using the skills in DR and ILYB in combination with loving distance and IC to help heal myself and focus on making the changes I need.

The lovemaking part has always been a problem for us, but a problem that has to be put aside until things are on less shaky ground.

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#2227778 - 03/05/12 03:53 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
ptcr Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 88
Did you read the 5 Love Languages book? I have no idea how to "work" on anything while we are apart....it scares me to pieces. I am trying to GAL and read all I can about ME so I can change ME and am hoping I get a chance to "show off" these changes. I feel brave one minute and terrified the next. How to GAL? I have been a Navy wife and stay at home Mom for 22-plus years. Volunteer work is my best option now...

Yes, I read that Amazon review and it frightened me! HA!! Do you think I should even pick it up considering I am sitting in my house alone and hoping for him to come home or at least initiate ANY contact with me? 5 weeks ago today he moved out....we speak only by text and have had only a few phone calls regarding money and S16. (except for one pre DB phone call which was AWFUL and he let the battery on his iphone die because he "cared so much" for me he would not hang up...yes - I am NOT proud! That was my begging, pleading stage! LOL!)
_________________________
Me: 44 H: 45
Married 22
S 18, S 16
Bomb 8/11, Second Bomb 1/12

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#2227780 - 03/05/12 03:54 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: ptcr]
mimivac Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Washington DC
Oh, hon, I could have written what you wrote. Your R sounds so similar to mine. I pretty much got the ILYB speech, too, but my H moved out in January to a friend's house, and permanently to a rented apartment this last weekend. I was so close to him and we did so much together that being without him feels almost unnatural at times. And I can definitely relate to the shock of hearing such hurtful things out of his mouth. My H has said things like, "I don't see you as an intimate partner anymore," and "In my subconscious mind, I never agreed to marry you." WTF? I thought I knew this man better than myself....

Anyway, there IS hope and you seem to be on track and very insightful in how you're handling this. You're right that you must be patient and it is HARD to do that. A MLC can take a long time to work its way out and you must absolutely do what you can to focus on you in the meantime. That way, you will be OK no matter what happens to the R. I agree with pt, that it is helpful to see this time alone as a gift to yourself. It can be difficult to this when you are ready to tear your hair out, but once you really start seeing it that way, you will begin to appreicate it, at least some of the time.

Keep reading and posting. So many of us have been there.

Mimi
_________________________
M:37; H:37; M:10 years;T:13 years;no kids.
Bomb ("I love you, but don't feel things for you I should":1/08/12
Separated (H living with various friends:1/18/12
Separated (H rented his own apartment:3/4/12

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#2227784 - 03/05/12 04:04 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: mimivac]
ptcr Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 88
Hi mimi, let me add to your list that I heard the "I don't love you like a husband is supposed to love a wife." Does this make you feel better, or at least not alone, justkelly? I read somewhere else on this board that Satan is alive and well and not that smart because he is handing out the same scripts to all of the men! True, true, true. They all say the same things. Isn't it wild to read the similarities of their stories? Ladies, we are all in the same place and it makes me feel so less lonely to know this. Wish we could PM our email addresses....
_________________________
Me: 44 H: 45
Married 22
S 18, S 16
Bomb 8/11, Second Bomb 1/12

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#2227805 - 03/05/12 04:56 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: ptcr]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
It does make me feel less alone. I've cried so much reading "ILYB" because I saw the two of us in there, and the breakdown that happened to get us where we are now. DR gives me hope that using solution focused methods and letting J have time and distance while working on me, that we can find our way toward love again.

I am keeping a private online journal that only close friends can read, and I have a support group of close friends who know what's going on. Having places to turn is a godsend.

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#2227817 - 03/05/12 05:14 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
ptcr Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 88
I love the idea of a private online journal. What do you use? I agree, friends are a Godsend. I have literally hunted up people from the past and reconnected with them...many of our stories share a similar thread. Thank heavens for them...

Going to get that book now on my iPad and go to the gym with it. Thanks!
_________________________
Me: 44 H: 45
Married 22
S 18, S 16
Bomb 8/11, Second Bomb 1/12

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#2227820 - 03/05/12 05:18 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: ptcr]
mimivac Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: ptcrussell
Hi mimi, let me add to your list that I heard the "I don't love you like a husband is supposed to love a wife."


Wow. When H dropped the bomb on me he said, "I don't feel for you things I am supposed to." Pretty much the exact same thing, huh? It does make me feel better that they are speaking from the same script -- less alone and more hopeful. Hang in there, ladies and GAL as best as you can.

Mimi
_________________________
M:37; H:37; M:10 years;T:13 years;no kids.
Bomb ("I love you, but don't feel things for you I should":1/08/12
Separated (H living with various friends:1/18/12
Separated (H rented his own apartment:3/4/12

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#2227865 - 03/05/12 07:18 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: ptcr]
mncwng Offline
Member

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 34
Originally Posted By: ptcrussell
Hi mimi, let me add to your list that I heard the "I don't love you like a husband is supposed to love a wife."


wow, i just wanted to chime in and say that my husband said word for word the same thing to me shortly after the bomb. i don't post much, but am rooting for all you ladies. reading through your respective sitches makes me feel less alone for sure.

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#2228030 - 03/06/12 09:28 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: mncwng]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
For me it was "I can't hug or kiss you, because it feels like a lie."

It's especially hard for me, since I now know that my love language is touch and physical affection, and J was always physically affectionate in the hugging/kissing arena.

It is pretty amazing that so many people read from the same script in the same way.

My best wishes to us all as we work on ourselves, GAL, and try to turn our marriage around.

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#2228177 - 03/06/12 03:52 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
ptcr Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 88
I'll be honest...before I read DB and DR I was in begging, pleading, rationalizing stage. He IS a pilot and aerospace engineer and is VERY logical, I replied to this hogwash, "Well, you have been screwing around on me for 2 years...how did you think you were supposed to feel about me? You HAVE NOT been treating me like your wife...."

So....now I am just detaching from his stuff the best I can. Keep in mind, he landed from a trip and has been texting me from his rented room across town. Every time my iPhone chimes, my heart sinks.

He tried to make a plan to meet S16 after his job this afternoon. S16 said, nope, have plans. It hurts my heart for all of them (S18 won't speak to him). I know I cannot manage their relationship but I am so afraid he is going to take this as an excuse that it is "too late" and things have "gone too far" and give up on us entirely. A GF said, if he does then he really is shallow and self centered. Easy to hear, hard to swallow. I am afraid since I am in my LRT that this will be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Heaven help us all, indeed. My Jesus Calling devotional on Feb 29 was "you are on the right path" and it is "lonely human wise." I try to hold on to this.

Bless you ladies....
_________________________
Me: 44 H: 45
Married 22
S 18, S 16
Bomb 8/11, Second Bomb 1/12

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#2228282 - 03/06/12 07:17 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: ptcr]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I never answered the question about my private journal. It's on Livejournal.com, since Livejournal will let you set it up to a "Friends only" setting where only the people you allow to read the entries can read it. I email my entries to my IC every day.

J and I are at the "please and thank you" point. I am away from home all day today (working on a special project at work), and he has been working 10-hour shifts the past two days. We have two older doggies that need tending, and usually I do that, since he had work and school. I asked him if he would please take care of the dogs tonight and he said he would. I had to call the vet and re-order meds for oldest doggie and told J that if he could not get around to getting the refill from the vet, I'd do it tomorrow. He emailed me later to tell me that he's picked up the meds and I thanked him, telling him that I really appreciated him doing that.

Most people have a hard time with the fact that J is still staying in our house, but I am not ready for him to move out, and he is making no moves to do so that I'm aware of. He chooses to spend time with me at night, watching television, and we make pleasant conversation, then go to bed. Not having him going to bed with me has been one of the hardest things for me.

Still, I'm taking "please and thank you" as a baby step forward, and hoping for the best while working on myself.

J wants to go out on his own on St. Patrick's Day with work friends, something he's NEVER wanted to do before. I said "okay" (not the hill I want to die on) and made plans to go out with my friend for a luncheon tea. I'm making the reservations tomorrow.

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#2228283 - 03/06/12 07:19 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
Oh, "Most People" = my group of a few friends that I talk to on FB about this, friends I've had for many years. No family members know what's going on between J and I right now, and as far as I'm concerned, it's going to stay that way. None of our mutual friends know either, and again, that's how it's going to stay on my end.

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#2228447 - 03/07/12 08:21 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
mimivac Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: justkelly
For me it was "I can't hug or kiss you, because it feels like a lie."


Oh lord. I got "I can't even kiss you properly because it feels like you are a relative." Our MC says that H has "neutered" me and we are working on this in therapy. It is so deeply ingrained at this point that I don't know if he can get over it. I am working on detachment so that whether he gets over it or not is his business.

Mimi
_________________________
M:37; H:37; M:10 years;T:13 years;no kids.
Bomb ("I love you, but don't feel things for you I should":1/08/12
Separated (H living with various friends:1/18/12
Separated (H rented his own apartment:3/4/12

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#2228459 - 03/07/12 08:52 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: ptcr]
mimivac Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: ptcrussell
I'll be honest...before I read DB and DR I was in begging, pleading, rationalizing stage. He IS a pilot and aerospace engineer and is VERY logical, I replied to this hogwash, "Well, you have been screwing around on me for 2 years...how did you think you were supposed to feel about me? You HAVE NOT been treating me like your wife...."


Yep, I was in this stage, too. I think most of us do this at first. I was so shocked and desperate that I wanted to hold on at any cost. I remember hours of crying and trying to convince him that what we had was too good to throw away. It was miserable. I got physically ill and could not eat for 3 days. I am NEVER doing that again. I felt that I had no control over my life and that it would be over if H left. What I have found is that this is not true. We are in charge -- of ourselves and our own lives. I still feel the "hole" that my H left behind, but, more and more, that hole is being filled by my own "wholeness" as a better human being. How cheesy is that? LOL.

Mimi
_________________________
M:37; H:37; M:10 years;T:13 years;no kids.
Bomb ("I love you, but don't feel things for you I should":1/08/12
Separated (H living with various friends:1/18/12
Separated (H rented his own apartment:3/4/12

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#2228467 - 03/07/12 09:18 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: mimivac]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/11
Posts: 8686
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Well said, mimi!
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M35 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2228475 - 03/07/12 09:42 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: mimivac]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
Learning that I am the one who controls my feelings and reactions is probably the hardest lesson I have ever had. I keep re-reading DR and taking comfort from it.

J and I are still on good terms today as far as I know. When I got home last night he was still up, but we did not spend any time together. He looked so tired and miserable (he's working 10-hour days this week), that I told him that I would take the dogs to bed and go read so he could go on to sleep.

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#2228975 - 03/08/12 04:57 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
So last night J had dinner with me. It's the first time I've cooked dinner for us in quite a while. He stayed in his room most of the night on the 'net. I stayed in the living room filling jewelry orders (we have an Etsy shop on top of our regular jobs), and watching television. I made sure to give him all the time and distance I could and didn't bother him. He didn't want to spend time with me at all. He'd barely even smile at me, though I did not change my attitude from being upbeat, friendly and undemanding.

Today he emails me while I'm at a work conference to tell me that he is going to be late home tonight and that he needs some time alone. The last time he said he needed time alone, it was because he was so angry with what he called my impostor, trying to win him back that he had to get away. Now that I've started acting with loving distance and giving him space, I think he may be angry with me again, but for what I'm not sure this time.

Someone out there who has been on the other side of this, please help.

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#2228977 - 03/08/12 05:16 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
mimivac Offline
Member

Registered: 01/30/12
Posts: 158
Loc: Washington DC
You can't know what he's thinking right now. He may not even be sure. He may be confused by your 180s (giving him space when he wants it) and questions things. All you can do is to continue giving him the space that he says he wants and get on with your life. I have not been to the "other side" per say, but things are always more peaceful and cordial between me and my H when I am firmly practicing LRT and GALing. I think the loving distance you've been practicing is excellent. He will talk when he is ready to. Good luck.

Mimi
_________________________
M:37; H:37; M:10 years;T:13 years;no kids.
Bomb ("I love you, but don't feel things for you I should":1/08/12
Separated (H living with various friends:1/18/12
Separated (H rented his own apartment:3/4/12

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#2229131 - 03/09/12 09:55 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: mimivac]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
He came home last night at 9:30. He leaves work at 4 pm. When he got home, I was friendly and upbeat. I did not ask him questions about where he'd been or what he'd done or anything. We made some pleasant conversation and watched television together for about an hour or so. Once I noticed that he was showing signs of being sleepy, I turned off the television and got ready for bed.

This morning, we had to take our cat Henry to the vet, and he got Henry into the cat carrier so I wouldn't have to do it when I got up to get ready for work. I've been debating whether or not to send him a thank you for that, but I think I'll thank him in person when I see him and just keep the other contacts to a minimum.

I really miss my husband and my marriage today. It's making me very sad, though I will do my best to be cheerful, upbeat and calm when I see J tonight for dinner.

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#2229466 - 03/10/12 05:57 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
J initiated a relationship talk with me today. He wanted to know if I'd spoken with my IC about his coming to another session to "help" me - as in help ease me out of our marriage so he can get what he wants and so "I wouldn't be suffering."

I stayed calm and we talked for a while, but I challenged him on his idea that he would never feel love for me again. At one point he agreed to work with me on the relationship to try to repair it, but then said he couldn't because it would give me false hope. Then he broke down into tears saying that he didn't want to hurt me any more, and he just couldn't feel love. But he still wants to see me as a friend and for me to meet up with him in our online game.

He's showing signs of depression to me - he says he wants to be alone, nothing is fun anymore, that he just doesn't feel like he should, but he became angry when the conversation went in that direction, so I stopped.

I had been trying to avoid any more relationship talks for a while so I could keep working on my plan of giving him space and time and working on myself, but I guess that just wasn't in the cards today.

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#2230157 - 03/13/12 10:45 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I met with my IC yesterday to talk about J's request to "help" me. She told me "I am here to help you work on you, not be his tool to do what you don't want. He'll have to do his own dirty work."

She also said that she felt from his actions toward me that there is still a deep well of care and concern for me, and that his MLC is obscuring that.

It helps me to keep top of mind that this is more about how J is feeling than it is about me. But J is pushing me to give him permission to divorce me. It's permission I cannot and will not give him, and may never be able to give him.

I am out all night on Wednesday for a work project, then a friend of mine and I are going to dinner and a movie the next night. On Saturday, J is going to a work friend's St. Patrick's Day party (where he tells me he may stay overnight if he drinks too much). I worry that if he is cheating on me with anyone then that person will be at the party too, but since I can't do anything about it right now, I am not going to spend a lot of time worrying about it. If he does something like that, it's all on his own head.

I've made plans to be out on Saturday with another friend. I am taking her to a local tea room for a luncheon tea and then we might do some shopping.

Slowly, slowly GALing and trying to keep a loving distance from J's lashing out. Patience, Courage and Strength are my new mantra.

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#2230605 - 03/14/12 04:38 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I am so angry with J right now. He called me at work to discuss getting me a new shoe rack for my room, since mine is falling apart. Which was a nice gesture on his part, but his REAL reason for calling was to tell me that he's decided that he won't be home from work on Friday night, he's going to go over to his friends' house having the party and play poker, have dinner and spend the night there, on top of spending Saturday night there too.

I told him he was being hurtful as calmly as I could and stood up for myself. I also told him that he never would have considered doing something like this before and he said "This isn't before. That's what I've been trying to tell you."

I hope when he comes out of this, that he has to look himself in the mirror when he remembers doing crap like this. I am choosing to believe that he WILL eventually come out of this and realize how he's acting.

If he stays like this for too long, I may lose my resolve to keep him around. I don't like who the MLC has turned my formerly loving, sweet husband into.

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#2230606 - 03/14/12 04:55 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
MrBond Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 10693
How do you look when he's around? Guys are fairly simple to turn on. I would suggest that when he is home, you get yourself as hot looking as possible and tell him you're going out. Don't tell him where.

When he tries calling you, let it go to VM. You make yourself scarce and don't share info with him.
_________________________
M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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#2230854 - 03/15/12 11:20 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: MrBond]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I try to look as attractive as possible when he's around. Makeup, nice cologne, well dressed.

But here's the thing. After I got home last night, I was still angry with him about the party, no matter how many times I tried to calm myself down. We ended up having another "discussion."

Then the midden really hit the windmill. I couldn't keep all the pain, rage and fear inside anymore. It all came out. I ended up storming back into the living room and angrily confronting him about why ending our marriage and our life together is so easy for him. I yelled. I cried. I screamed. I pretty much destroyed a month's worth of work on my Last Resort. He threatened to move out, then said he wouldn't. I told him to look at his actions through my eyes and then go look himself in the mirror to see if he likes the man he sees looking back at him. I said a lot of things.

I don't know if I can re-start my LRT and have the confidence, patience and strength I need for it to work, or if he's too far gone in his MLC and just wants to destroy everything rather than face it.

...I just want my husband and my marriage back, and it hurts so much.

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#2230857 - 03/15/12 11:27 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
RoRoinMD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 871
(((Kelly))) I know what you're going through. Yes, you messed up and backslid WAY down the hill. But there's still work to do...on YOU.

What do you want to change about you?

I think you need to back away from H a bit. Believe me, with him in the same house, I know how hard that can be. (My H and I share a 2 bdrm condo) Go out, have some fun. And if you're not up for that, then at least take some time to yourself. Read, go for a walk, SOMETHING that's for you.
_________________________
Me:34
H:38
SS:19 - lives in NC with his mom
M:3
Bomb #1: 1/3/12 - We're not compatible. I want out.
Bomb #2: 1/12/12 - Found out about EA/PA
H moves out 10/2/12

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#2230964 - 03/15/12 04:44 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: RoRoinMD]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I am still working on changes about me. I want to learn to fully forgive and let go, to believe in myself, to unlearn some of the coping mechanisms that protected me through my childhood sexual abuse and emotional abuse. These are some of my goals in IC.

I am a very plus size girl, and though I don't believe "If I get skinny, I'll win him back" I have started walking to improve my health, and it's working.

I am going to take up belly dancing.

I'd like to find a local support group for MLC spouses, but they're kind of thin on the ground. I'm still reading as much as I can on the topic and educating myself as much as I can.

Last night in our fight J told me that if we were to reconcile that I would always hold this over his head. I told him that I wanted to look back on it as a wake-up call and learning experience that helped us both grow as people and grow in our marriage. He was very quiet after that.

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#2230989 - 03/15/12 06:45 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
adinva Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2773
Loc: VA
What a great answer. Way to keep the road home paved!
_________________________
Adinva 48 H48
T22 M19 S16 S14
6/15/11 IDLY
6/11-12/12 in-home sep
12/16/12 H moved out
Nothing signed yet
____
Be the change you want to see in the world (Gandhi)

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#2231001 - 03/15/12 07:37 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
Cadet Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 5188
Originally Posted By: justkelly
I'd like to find a local support group for MLC spouses, but they're kind of thin on the ground. I'm still reading as much as I can on the topic and educating myself as much as I can.
If you can find other LBS and meet with them it is one of the most empowering things that you can DO.
As far as MLC education their is a ton of stuff around, this website has great resources and it is a good place to start.
If you need any help finding something I may be able to point you in the right direction.
_________________________
Me-60, D27,S26

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#2231134 - 03/16/12 09:29 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: Cadet]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
My work friend's marriage was in trouble years ago. She knows how it feels to be a LBS. She's been a great support for me.

I am currently reading "This Is Not The Story You Think It Is" by Laura Munson, which is a first-hand account of dealing with her husband's MLC, and I see "the script" that J is following in her husband's behavior.

I also have "His Midlife Crisis" and "Male Midlife Crisis" by the Conways to read. They're a little more heavy into the Christian focus than I am, but the books are very highly recommended for looks into the male MLC perspective and the perspective of the MLC spouse.

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#2231171 - 03/16/12 11:08 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
Cadet Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 5188
Originally Posted By: justkelly
I also have "His Midlife Crisis" and "Male Midlife Crisis" by the Conways to read. They're a little more heavy into the Christian focus than I am, but the books are very highly recommended for looks into the male MLC perspective and the perspective of the MLC spouse.
Conway's books are excellent, and I understand about the religous perspective, as that is also the way I feel, however if everytime you see that perspective if you substitute the word "science" it will make a lot of sense.
There is a tremendous amount of science in all of this and it is difficult to SEE because it is the OPPOSITE of most things that are scientific that we learn about.

Laura Munson's husband's MLC was mild IMHO but it is not a bad book.

The overlay of the scripts are mostly all the same but each person also has their own particulars that are involved.

Keep learning and this at some point may make more sense.
_________________________
Me-60, D27,S26

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#2231202 - 03/16/12 12:29 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: Cadet]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I am trying to learn everything I can. I want to approach his MLC with empathy and understanding, not just anger and intense emotional pain.

We talked briefly last night. I told him that I was sorry that he feels the way he does - that life is no longer exciting, that work is a chore, that life at home is awful. I told him that if I could, I would take all of that on myself instead of him. But this is his work to do, and his crisis.

In retrospect, I think he's been in crisis since early last year when his health really started to be a problem.

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#2231747 - 03/19/12 10:52 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
Well, this weekend has been good. J stayed gone all Friday and stayed over with his friends in a nearby town. He was going to stay all Saturday as well at their St. Patrick's Day party. I had made plans to spend the day with my friend and "adopted Mommy."

We had a WONDERFUL day on Saturday. We went to a luncheon tea, then went to a local jewelry design museum (we're both jewelry makers), then we went to the mall to walk around and shop, out to dinner together and a little more shopping before I took her back to her car.

When I got home, J was home on the couch, nursing a very upset stomach. He said he'd been home most of the day, having left his friends on Saturday at lunchtime. I was cheerful, showing him the gift I'd bought at the museum for my MIL (which was a gift I WANTED to buy for her, not an attempt to score points - I love my MIL very much), put away the groceries I'd picked up on my way home and offered to get J some more chicken broth to sip to make his stomach feel better. We played our online game for a while and had some snacks. I asked him nothing about his party and just enjoyed the peace and my own sense of happiness from my great day out.

Yesterday we had a good day together, and at one point, J even apologized to me for being irritable with me. I went to the grocery store to pick up supplies for a dish I am going to make tonight and bought him lunches for the week at his request. Even him being willing to ask me to do something for him is an improvement over where we were.

While I was at the museum I volunteered to help teach classes on jewelry making, and the volunteer coordinator contacted me today to discuss it. I am excited!

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#2231754 - 03/19/12 11:27 AM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 283
I am happy to hear that you had a great weekend. It seems like things are going well for you! Keep up the good work!
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

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#2231794 - 03/19/12 02:03 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: hopingandpraying]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I am going to try! I certainly like being happy as opposed to being unhappy. I am so proud of myself for all the walking I did on Saturday, and encouraged to do even more!

I met with my therapist today, and she is thrilled with how this weekend went for me and all the things I was able to do for myself, just because I wanted to do them.

I am sure there will be more "down" days on this rollercoaster to come, but I am hopeful that I can retain the memory of this weekend (and more weekends like it with my friend) to help me through the worst of it.

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#2232387 - 03/21/12 12:47 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
Some new developments.

My kitty Dobby is very ill. We had to take him to the vet last night on an emergency visit. J took Dobby to the vet for me. When he got back, we sat together on the couch. He held my hand to comfort me over Dobby and we talked. He told me that he's going to see our doctor about going back on antidepressants.

Our conversations have been at his invitation (he asked me to keep him updated about Dobby) and they have been polite and friendly.

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#2233053 - 03/24/12 02:04 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
My kitty Dobby passed away in the night just after midnight on Friday. He had been showing improvement, but something went wrong. They don't really know what. J got the call from the vet and broke the news to me. He spent that night in our bed, and it was almost like we were back to our old normal.

Yesterday we both stayed home from work, and J made the cremation arrangements at the vet and paid the bill. To say that I am heartbroken is an understatement.

Last night J stayed on the couch again. I went into our bedroom and cried. I am so angry that I've lost both my beloved kitty, who was only 8, and my husband, because the doors started shutting behind his eyes again. I woke up this morning to find a note in the bathroom telling me that he needed to take the day alone and that he would be back some time this evening.

It's very hard to not feel hopeless right now. I don't know if I have it in me to keep fighting for a good outcome.

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#2233256 - 03/25/12 10:31 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
luvless Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 1583
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: justkelly
He came home last night at 9:30. He leaves work at 4 pm. When he got home, I was friendly and upbeat. I did not ask him questions about where he'd been or what he'd done or anything. We made some pleasant conversation and watched television together for about an hour or so. Once I noticed that he was showing signs of being sleepy, I turned off the television and got ready for bed.

This morning, we had to take our cat Henry to the vet, and he got Henry into the cat carrier so I wouldn't have to do it when I got up to get ready for work. I've been debating whether or not to send him a thank you for that, but I think I'll thank him in person when I see him and just keep the other contacts to a minimum.

I really miss my husband and my marriage today. It's making me very sad, though I will do my best to be cheerful, upbeat and calm when I see J tonight for dinner.


sorry Kelly but it's likely he will not change
_________________________
M44 H41
M20 T23
3 older teens
Bomb Nov 09 "i'm not happy"
EA Nov 09 w/coworker
Another PA in Mar 10
I Filed Apr 10
D final Dec 10

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#2233425 - 03/26/12 03:24 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: luvless]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
I went over my weekend with my IC today. She is as shocked as I am that J has chosen on his own to start back on antidepressants. This is not something we'd even really discussed. He was unwilling to concede that he was depressed at all just two weeks ago.

She says that it's a very good sign, and that J's instinctive impulse to comfort me over Dobby's death and get comfort from me is also a major turning point.

Today, I am just focusing on marshalling what reserves I have (I haven't been sleeping well), getting through work and going to my first belly dance class tonight.

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#2235698 - 04/05/12 03:53 PM Re: Thirteen Days In and Hurting [Re: justkelly]
justkelly Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 30
A brief update. Currently things are in stasis. J is spending a lot of time out of the house and having coffee with a female friend who is having a bad time in her relationship. Yes, I know it could be an affair situation, but there's not a lot I can do about it at this point if it is. He is not making any large or unknown purchases and keeps me updated on the nights he will be out late, so I hold to my end of the bargain and say nothing. Of course, part of that bargain is that the same goes for me, so I have been meeting friends/going out on occasion during the week too.

I am GALing. I started belly dance and love it. I will be teaching beadweaving at a local jewelry museum once a month, and next weekend I'm going out of town to visit a friend. J will be welcome to come if he wants, but I'm going either way. Last weekend I had lunch with friends and took myself to see The Hunger Games alone. J and I had dinner together that night and we are friendly and companionable when we are at home together.

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