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#2219918 - 02/08/12 02:38 PM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: jlove]
jlove Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 126
D is doing better. I think W is serious about her no contact with OM after she sent him via FB. She did apologize to me and said it was over and kissed me on the lips for the 1st time in over 2 weeks. I know not to trust anything she says and 1/2 I see right now and vacillate between hope and dispair daily, so we'll see. We do have a valentines dinner planned next week that has been set for over a month and she still wants to go, so I think I'll just go and let her talk to me and carry the conversation and I'm doing all I can to have no expectations of outcome of dinner. D actually brought it up that we should go out for Vday and W said we were.
We have a week carribean trip for the 2 of us which is already paid for next month that we're going on and other events every month following that are still planned, so life goes on in a strange way. Still doing my best not to pursue and just going along and letting her have all the space I can, but it's awkward at times when we spend so much time together alone. Sometimes I just want to grab her and give her a hug or kiss and tell her I love her (but have to remind myself that she knows that and not ready to tell me yet). If her fantasy fog will lift I think we could work at R, but I have to wait it out. Hard when I cannot fully trust her about OM, etc...
_________________________
M 43, W 40
T 22. M 14
D 14, S 9, S 8
DD 11/21/11
Retrouvaille 4/13/12--and the healing begins as we begin a new journey together!


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#2220470 - 02/10/12 01:05 AM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: jlove]
jlove Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 126
Still working on me and my 180's but since we're around each other so often, it's still hard keeping from telling her I love her or hugging, kissing, etc. Hard to act normal around kids to when my heart is torn this way. Sometimes I feel like bailing out and finding someone who gives a *(!@ about me, but I love my family too much for that. Still wondering if she has ended EA and want to tell everyone what pond scum he is for still being married (I know, she is in that too) and continuing to chase a married woman. Especially want to tell his separated W everything I know. I don't know her, but know who she is. That's my tough part at times too, now as another site recommends going nuclear and telling everyone about A to expose and start the healing and get rid of her fog. So far only our D knows and I can't really talk to her about it, nor is it fair to her to get her into this deeper.
I just have to keep on focusing on me and my kids and wait for her to come around. She's noticing 180's (weight loss, no drinking, more time with kids, etc) so I still have hope for us and that she'll want to deal with this in counseling some day! Dinner next week should be interesting and God only knows about our week in the Carribean next month. FIL, MIL, SIL, BIL will be there too at the resort, so who knows what to expect on my end here...Keep on keeping on...
_________________________
M 43, W 40
T 22. M 14
D 14, S 9, S 8
DD 11/21/11
Retrouvaille 4/13/12--and the healing begins as we begin a new journey together!


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#2220618 - 02/10/12 03:18 PM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: jlove]
jlove Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 126
Bump for any advice...
_________________________
M 43, W 40
T 22. M 14
D 14, S 9, S 8
DD 11/21/11
Retrouvaille 4/13/12--and the healing begins as we begin a new journey together!


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#2220754 - 02/10/12 09:19 PM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: jlove]
Truegritter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 2686
Originally Posted By: jlove
Sometimes I feel like bailing out and finding someone who gives a *(!@ about me, but I love my family too much for that. Still wondering if she has ended EA and want to tell everyone what pond scum he is for still being married (I know, she is in that too) and continuing to chase a married woman.


I didn't read your whole thread so forgive me but I am confused.

Does she want to repair the M?

If so then she should understand your not trusting her because of her actions and be contrite about her A.

As far as trusting her I say trust but verify. Meaning if she is contrite she will be willing for some time to help you trust her again by being forthright and giving you assurance that she means what she says.

Remember though there will be a time of her mourning the loss of the OM.

I know it won't feel good to live with that but if you want your M then you will have to swallow some things.

BUT

What worries me most is your statement that she doesn't give a Sh!t about you.

Why do you think that?

What made her feel that way?

What are her complaints against you?

Keep yout children out of this. Period.

As far as exposure of the A there are different schools of thought.

To me it comes down to what kind of person your W is and what kind of man you are.

Is your W a taker? I mean are you the one always bending or sacrificing for the sake of the M?

Or

Is that you? Are you the taker. If its you then you probably don't know it's you because to me if you do that then you have an inability to see outside of your own wants/needs. A certain lack of empathy.

Somewhere in the middle is the healthy relationship but if you're here someone is behaving badly. Or both.

The first thing you have to know is you are part of the problem.

Why am asking this?

Because you don't control your W and if you have tried or are in the habit of controlling her by holding her emotionally hostage your efforts to expose her A will be met with hostility and a sense of entitlement. For her to make that choice(having an affair) in reaction to your treatment of her took a long time to make.

If you are the former, meaning you were the one being taken advantage of then it is time to maybe ask yourself:

"Would I treat someone the way I am being treated?"

Either way you can't control your W only YOU.

So ultimately the question is what do you hope to accomplish by blowing this whole mess up in front of the world?

Will it make you a better man to drag your W and OM out into the open?

What does it serve? Your anger? Your frustration? Your vanity?

Stop looking to your W for answers and you will find your own.

She had an A.

She is either willing to give it up and ask for forgiveness or not.

I submit to you that you will be a victim of her choice unless you look at this a different way.

Do not place your self worth in the hands of someone who does not deserve it. Who has not valued it. Who has not earned it.

If you do not value yourself more than that then it is time to ask yourself why?

Why when you look in the mirror do you not see someone you admire and aspire to be looking back you?

As long as she sees the same man she left behind, you are destined to be that man.

My advice is to start focusing on yourself.

Make the changes for you not for her.
_________________________
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am

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#2220787 - 02/10/12 11:14 PM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: Truegritter]
sayitaintso Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 951
Wisdom^^^
_________________________
Me- 34 W-33
S15 S10 S6
Married- 11 Together- 18
Bomb- 6-2011
WAW moves out- 8-2011

"Nothing in the Universe can stop you from letting go and starting over at anytime"- Guy Finley

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#2220971 - 02/11/12 03:59 PM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: Truegritter]
jlove Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 126
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: jlove
Sometimes I feel like bailing out and finding someone who gives a *(!@ about me, but I love my family too much for that. Still wondering if she has ended EA and want to tell everyone what pond scum he is for still being married (I know, she is in that too) and continuing to chase a married woman.


I didn't read your whole thread so forgive me but I am confused.

Does she want to repair the M?

[/color]
Yes, at times, no at other times. She says she wants to be on her own, but realizes that it's not a possibility at this time due to our financial sit. She hasn't said she wants a D, just a S. I think she wanted to eat her cake until D found out about OM and she realized the hurt her A would have on the rest of our family.


BUT

What worries me most is your statement that she doesn't give a Sh!t about you.

Why do you think that?
[color:#FF0000]

Just the fact that there's hardly any physical contact now and she doesn't want to deal with any of our R issues at this time.

What made her feel that way?[/color]
Living with my drinking for 21 years

What are her complaints against you?
[color:#FF0000]

Right now, she just says she doesn't love me or want to be with me except for our kids sake. She wishes we never married 15 years ago, etc...She really doesn't want to talk about anything except telling me if I want her back, I have to let her go.




Is that you? Are you the taker. If its you then you probably don't know it's you because to me if you do that then you have an inability to see outside of your own wants/needs. A certain lack of empathy.
[/color]
You are spot on here, I have to admit I've sucked all the oxygen out of our R for a lot of the 22 years. I am working on me now for me, and hope I can salvage this, because I really do love her. I let her go for a few months 17 years ago and we still lived together, but lived as roommates like we do now for a while and she told everyone she was leaving me, but I changed for a while and she came back then we got married about a year later. This is why maybe she's waiting out to see if I am really making changes, because her primary LL is acts of service, so words are cheap to her, especially after I've not lived up to them in the past. The thing is, and this is my fault, after I'll quit drinking a while, we'll go out and she says, "i don't care if you drink," and I do, then it becomes a problem for me again. I cannot do that anymore for me, regardless because it's my issue, not hers.



Because you don't control your W and if you have tried or are in the habit of controlling her by holding her emotionally hostage your efforts to expose her A will be met with hostility and a sense of entitlement. For her to make that choice(having an affair) in reaction to your treatment of her took a long time to make.[color:#FF0000]

This is me to a T so maybe I shouldn't expose to the world. She promised me and D last week it was over with OM and I read her NC letter to him, so maybe I should lay low there for now.


Either way you can't control your W only YOU.
[/color]
true!

So ultimately the question is what do you hope to accomplish by blowing this whole mess up in front of the world?

Will it make you a better man to drag your W and OM out into the open?


If you do not value yourself more than that then it is time to ask yourself why?
[color:#FF0000]
Right now, I do suffer from low self worth issues and she has I need to "get a sense of self."

Why when you look in the mirror do you not see someone you admire and aspire to be looking back you?
[/color] sometimes, yes, sometimes no.

As long as she sees the same man she left behind, you are destined to be that man.
[color:#FF0000]

I'm not that man anymore, but it's a work in progress and I hope she realizes it before it's too late!

My advice is to start focusing on yourself.

Make the changes for you not for her.

_________________________
M 43, W 40
T 22. M 14
D 14, S 9, S 8
DD 11/21/11
Retrouvaille 4/13/12--and the healing begins as we begin a new journey together!


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#2221061 - 02/11/12 10:38 PM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: jlove]
Truegritter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 2686
jlove

you touched on a few things I think you might want to give some thought to.

in an unbalanced relationship, an unhealthy one, one person is unwilling or able to surrender fully to the relationship. They just don't or won't.

Only you know if your drinking is one of those things.

But it sounds to me like it is.

Have you ever considered going completely sober?

Getting help for that?

Would that be a 180 or a change that you might consider a step toward becoming a man you want to be?

The flip side to living with someone with drinking problem (I was the fixer to my W's drinking and substance abuse)is that the sober person ultimately becomes angry and resentful.

Is that where your W is?

Then next step is realizing she can't do anything about it and that means detaching from you.

So what is your M worth to you? It seems to me you know what needs to be done or at least part of it.

Do you have the will, the courage and the commitment to do it?

Maybe if she sees that guy take control she might be willing to join someone with such courage in the fight to save your M.

Your choice.
_________________________
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am

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#2221081 - 02/11/12 11:43 PM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: Truegritter]
jlove Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 126
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
jlove

you touched on a few things I think you might want to give some thought to.

in an unbalanced relationship, an unhealthy one, one person is unwilling or able to surrender fully to the relationship. They just don't or won't.

Only you know if your drinking is one of those things.

But it sounds to me like it is.

Have you ever considered going completely sober?

Getting help for that?

Would that be a 180 or a change that you might consider a step toward becoming a man you want to be?

The flip side to living with someone with drinking problem (I was the fixer to my W's drinking and substance abuse)is that the sober person ultimately becomes angry and resentful.

Is that where your W is?

Then next step is realizing she can't do anything about it and that means detaching from you.

So what is your M worth to you? It seems to me you know what needs to be done or at least part of it.

Do you have the will, the courage and the commitment to do it?

Maybe if she sees that guy take control she might be willing to join someone with such courage in the fight to save your M.

Your choice.


[color:#FF0000][/color] I have given up drinking since D day #1 3 months ago. I'm finally committed to staying sober and will go to AA if I feel like a drink, but I have turned into an exercise freak since this, so haven't even wanted a drink.
She says she believes my 180's are permanent, but cannot see the love coming back for me that way. She's torn because financially she cannot move out, and doesn't want to because of the kids, but yet doesn't want to be with me either. She swears up and down that OM is over and not many feelings left there anyway, it's just she should have left me 16 yrs ago before we got married.
She says she is trying every day to do the best she can and I believe her there.
I took what you told me yesterday to heart today Truegritter and I have been holding her emotions hostage for 22 yrs now and have to stop. I told her this today and she agreed.I guess I'm luck she stayed as long as she did. This is hard for me to deal with and I may have to let her go this time for real, and deal with the possibility it may be over for ever.
Today, I had a TOTAL MELTDOWN BACKSLIDE. Her sister is getting M this summer and W is the matron of honor and was showing her the dress and talking about their wedding and all the future family plans together and I started crying. THEN, we went to MIL for lunch and I tried to bail due to my emotions but couldn't get out of it. During lunch they were talking about wedding, plans and future events and how everyone should wait until after 30 to marry, etc (W was 25) and MIL never thought we should have and told W that she needed to be with other boys/men when she was 18-24 (we got together after she graduated HS) and I lost it at the dinner table. I got up and left the house for an hour. During that time, I told myself that I was the failure to my W and kids, and I have to let her go because of my past, and I have to respect myself enough to NOT be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. I'm a really touchy, huggy, person, and my W told me a month ago that she has "cringed" for years when I touch her, so I may have gotten one hug and a few kisses from her in the last month. I'm in purgatory right now and I deserve it, but I have to get out. I put on my "game face" and went back in for my kids. Tough to do.
Anyway, when we got home, I told W she should leave and I couldn't fake this anymore and be with someone who no longer loves me or wants to be with me. She said she understood but I was playing emotional war again her and for many reasons she can't and didn't want to leave right now. She said again it was over with OM, she loves me, just doesn't want to be married to me and wants space. I get that, it's not how I feel but I need to know that there is hope because I'm the only one of us that wants us to work out. She says she's trying day by day and that's the best she can do. Doesn't want counseling because she wants out of our relationship. still doesn't talk D, just S if she could. I love her and will wait and have hope that if we do retrouvaille, or counseling we may be able to save it. So, I'm still in purgatory as she can't leave, I can't live a fake marriage with her, and she doesn't want to see us try to make it work. I have nowhere else to go either, so we are stuck here both unhappy for different reasons. That's why I got so emotional today, because I feel like just getting it over with and moving on if she doesn't even want to try. What a mess I've caused, and I accept my part in it all.
_________________________
M 43, W 40
T 22. M 14
D 14, S 9, S 8
DD 11/21/11
Retrouvaille 4/13/12--and the healing begins as we begin a new journey together!


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#2221092 - 02/12/12 12:15 AM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: jlove]
Truegritter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 2686
Originally Posted By: jlove
and I have to let her go because of my past, and I have to respect myself enough to NOT be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.


How about we turn that statment around and say you respect the fact that she doesn't want to be with you right now.

You are not the victim here. Only if you choose to be.

It is not the fact that you failed. It is how you decide to recover from that failure.

So I see you walking out on the discussion because that stings for you. The complaints from your W and her family about you or how they thought you should not have gotten married sting.

WHY?

Originally Posted By: jlove
I told W she should leave and I couldn't fake this anymore and be with someone who no longer loves me or wants to be with me. She said she understood but I was playing emotional war again her and for many reasons she can't and didn't want to leave right now.


She is right you are playing war. You are not getting and/or hearing what you want so you are thrwing a tantrum.

More of the same old jlove?

I have to go J more later....
_________________________
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am

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#2221100 - 02/12/12 12:58 AM Re: New trying to DB-Help! [Re: Truegritter]
jlove Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 126
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: jlove
and I have to let her go because of my past, and I have to respect myself enough to NOT be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.


How about we turn that statment around and say you respect the fact that she doesn't want to be with you right now.

You are not the victim here. Only if you choose to be.

It is not the fact that you failed. It is how you decide to recover from that failure.[/color] I know, I did this to myself and that is what's killing me right now. That and that when I finally "get it" it was too late for us. Maybe some other woman down the line will benefit, and of course my kids and myself will, but I'm not ready to quit on my marriage yet. It's the living in purgatory with no love in return that is eating away at me. I deserve it after all these years, but it still hurts and is harder than anything I've ever done. I do want to die sometimes and was in the process of killing myself before all of this sparked an interest in life again, so that and my improved physical health is a positive from this in an sick self-centered way. I guess I've been crying out for help, but too much of a wimp to actually ask for it.

So I see you walking out on the discussion because that stings for you. The complaints from your W and her family about you or how they thought you should not have gotten married sting.

WHY?
[color:#FF0000]
The MIL wasn't directly talking about us and W wasn't saying anything, though my W has told me over the years that she told her that advice back when she was 18 as her mother did the same thing, then left her husband a few years later to never remarry. No she's old and all alone in the world, struggling to make ends meet, but that's another story.

Originally Posted By: jlove
I told W she should leave and I couldn't fake this anymore and be with someone who no longer loves me or wants to be with me. She said she understood but I was playing emotional war again her and for many reasons she can't and didn't want to leave right now.


She is right you are playing war. You are not getting and/or hearing what you want so you are thrwing a tantrum.

More of the same old jlove?
[color:#FF0000][/color] Yes, this is the old me, but is it wrong for me to want love? I am impatient, and can wait but I'm missing the little signs from her along the way to tell me that the 180 is working and we have hope. I know DB can be done by one person, and there are no guarantees, I just feel like I've been busting A+_ for 3 months and have gotten nowhere. I thought we'd recovered until a month ago, when she told me she couldn't live here anymore with me and had been faking everything for years. Now, I have to fake it until we maybe make it. I get it and it's worth waiting for, just don't know how long I can do it. A week vacation with all inlaws next month with no kids is going to be brutal. i really don't even want to go, but it's paid for and I think maybe we can bond more in that week without the kids around 24/7. Plus I feel like if I don't go, OM will happily take my place even though none of them know about it and she says that was a mistake, is sorry, and I can trust her that it's over with him. She understands my roller coaster rides and I really think she's more than I deserve right now, so I'm a mess and really see why she'd want out. That's hard to deal with with all the other baggage hanging around. I need to find ME, and I get that. Thanks for your help, TG!!!

I have to go J more later....
_________________________
M 43, W 40
T 22. M 14
D 14, S 9, S 8
DD 11/21/11
Retrouvaille 4/13/12--and the healing begins as we begin a new journey together!


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