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New thread - here are the links to my old threads:

Thread 1 – Wife is angrier after my 180
Thread 2 – Wife is angrier after my 180’s – time + consistency
Thread 3 – Into the Darkness – DB full steam ahead
Thread 4 – Dark Shadows – DB continues
Thread 5 – Dark Shadows on the Roller Coaster
Thread 6 – Dark Shadows on the Roller Coaster - ride cont's.

====================================================

At the start of my last thread I was riding the emotional roller coaster feel pretty low and frankly grieving the loss of my long term M. Later on I was questioning whether or not it was worth continuing this fight to save my M followed by a lot of anxiety about finances, selling our home and getting things in order to really and truly detach and prepare to move on.

Needless to say, but definitely worth mentioning, I received a ton of advice, support and direct feedback from many fellow DB'rs and other assorted friends and family. Without this support system, I would be totally and utterly lost. Thank you, one and all!!

====================================================

Today I received what I consider to be a very interesting and potentially promising email from my W, the contents of which is provided below:

"Just an FYI - my hermit days are over and I've started a Friday night girl's night. wink

This means NO BOYS of any age!

It is Friend 1, Friend 2 (S10's friends mom) and me for now. We are having French Martini Friday's, that is of course if I can figure out how to make them.

So seems like Friend 1's H would need a buddy this Friday too. wink

Also, Friend 1 and I are going to start Zumba at the gym on Sundays at 10am. If you and S10 went to the early service would he be able to get to the gym by 10 to hang with Friend 1's son?"


I thought long and hard about how I ought to respond and after consulting with a few close friends I came up with the following:

"French Martini's and Zumba with friends...a perfect combination! I'm sure we can work something out with the schedule on Sundays!

2thepoint

PS I'm really glad you are doing this!"


The reason for my optimism is because as I've stated in an earlier thread, my W has really struggled with maintaining friendships with other women. That she is finally figuring out that she can thrive in the company of others is a huge step forward for her. I think her statement about her "hermit days are over" seems like a very positive development in her journey.

Makes me wonder what other surprises are in store for me in the coming weeks and months. And, whether among the dark shadows, there just may be light at the end of the tunnel.


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
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Originally Posted By: 2
Originally Posted By: M1

"Looking at your response again...

Would you say that that is advice YOU would want to hear if the roles were reversed?

"It shows a complete lack of faith in her as a Mother. I know I would be a little peeved if I thought someone was judging me to be less of a parent than I was capable of being."


I think it would depend. I understand how it was likely received by my W which is why I posted about it. It is an area of my personality for which I would like to continue to work on. The fact that I recognize it I think is a good thing (i.e. self awareness). Now I just need to manage it which seems to be considerably more difficult.

I disagree with the second part of your comment that it shows a "complete lack of faith in her as a Mother." I have faith in her as a mother. I am just being a little controlling in how I communicated about administering the medication which I recognize and hope to correct.



You may disagree all you want. I'm cool with that, yet then again, I'm not the one you are trying to reconcile with.

It's not about how YOU view it at all that matters. It is about how SHE views things.

Was this a common type of communication in the past ?

It came across to me as if you didn't trust her to do the right things. It was controlling, you treated her like an idiot that wasn't capable of dispensing Advil to your son. It reaked of you being superior to her.

I'm not sure what part of that, you thought was okay.

I'm not sure you are showing faith in her, by trying to control the whens and hows of how she cares for him.

Cause I can tell you that " just making sure she has all of the info" is trying to control her. It tells her that you are just a little smarter than she is, and can do things a little better than she can....

That is faith ?



That is the funny part of being a control freak, it attacks every facet of our being. In areas that we don't think that it does.

You say you were controlling, and you are working on that....

Let me ask you this.



HOW were you controlling ?


Sounds simple huh ???

HOW WERE YOU CONTROLLING ?????

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First of all, I'm going to re-post the exchange between my W and I because I think you are blowing out of proportion what I already acknowledged before any input from anyone, was probably not a good way to have approached things.

"...Once W filled me in on the missing details, I asked her if S10 was prescribed pain medication and she said no. She says he will only need ibuprofen and will be giving it to him in regular intervals, (before he has a chance to complain about the pain).

I then remind her that ibuprofen can be dangerous if taken more than directed on the label and to please be careful. W got a little testy, saying "I know!" in what I interpret as an exasperated and condescending tone."


Note here that I didn't tell her what to do, I just reminded her about the dangers of Ibuprofen and to be careful. Now because she reacted negatively to this, I posted the exchange to get input on how I could handle differently in the future. And you along with others provided some good advice.

If I really wanted to be a control freak, I could have told her specifically how much and how often to administer the medication and maybe even send it to her in writing just to be sure and then demand periodic updates on my sons condition.

Now to my mind, that ^^^^ would be control freak type behavior. A simple reminder about the dangers of the medication and to be careful is not. I do though see how it is likely a subtle form of control which I suppose can be just as damaging to a R.

You asked the question, "Was this a common type of communication in the past?"

I would say probably, yes. It is something that I have acknowledged here and to my W. It is something I continue to struggle with and am working on internally and with my IC. I would say that I am making some progress because in the past I wouldn't have even recognized the behavior let alone try to correct it. The fact that I see it now almost immediately after it happens and sometimes before, tells me that I am making progress.

You asked me "HOW WERE YOU CONTROLLING ?????"

I think the best way to answer that is to re-post a very early description of my contributions to my sitch and then add some additional background.

(From my post Oct 4, 2011)
I consider myself to be a good and thoughtful person who doesn't drink, smoke, do drugs, beat my wife or kids and I have never ever had an affair, emotional or otherwise. I do have my demons though; grew up in a very impoverished family, food insecurities, father did drugs, mother had affairs, was sexually abused for years as a child by a person who went to my church, did lots of drugs until I turned 21, all fun stuff!

Over the years I have worked very hard to make something of myself. I worked very hard to work my way up the corporate ladder, made more $$ than I ever dreamed possible and built a good/safe life for my family. We have a nice home, nice things and really good kids. Where I struggle as I've discovered during my soul searching prompted by this crisis, is that I am selfish. When I want something, I work hard until I get it. If I don't want to do something, I don't do it! I have pressured my wife into decisions that she would have preferred not to make. If I want to do something, I do it. If I want the family to do something, I press and press until they agree. My wife also feels like I don't support her emotionally. I have not been 100% present in love, in raising the kids or in general consideration of the family. This manifests itself mostly with my time spent on the computer, (political blogs, news sites, face book, email, etc.). It has become somewhat of an addiction that I have made a great effort to confront in recent weeks.

Perhaps the biggest issue I face as far as my W is concerned is that I don't respect her and have begun to ignore her. Until the bomb went off and probably for the last year or so I would roll my eyes and sigh heavily when asked to do something. I didn't even realize I was doing it until I caught myself one day. I also have developed a hearing problem that apparently has really been driving my W batty. She has begged and pleaded with me to have my hearing checked.
After the bomb, I did have it checked and was stunned by the results. I now have hearing aids."


Ok, now that I've rehashed all that old baggage, I should point out that what I early on described as "selfishness" was really probably more "control type" behavior. I am a manager by trade and my W has told me in the past "I don't need to be managed!" So there is one great example of how I was controlling. I'd often come across as demanding she do things. Even though that was not my intent, that is how I came across.

I would often get frustrated about my W's sloppy house keeping or lack thereof and would get into angry clean-up mode. That was probably a form of control as well.

When my W would hem and haw about simple decisions, I would often take "control" and make the decision.

So those are some of the examples of control. There are others sprinkled throughout my posts over the past 4 months.

I know it is a problem. I am much better at recognizing it and managing it than I was in the past, but I still have a long way to go.


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
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I should also point out that I understand where my control tendencies come from. A lot of it was learned behavior from grandparents and great grandparents who were very influential in my life at an early age. The other source and perhaps more important was the lack of control that I felt at a young age (between the age of 9-14) when there was significant food insecurity and the sexual abuse I endured over that period.

Not being able to control my environment then has manifested itself into my control behaviors of today. I understand it, I recognize it's source and I have to work hard at it daily to manage it.

In one of our few but a lengthy R conversation, I shared this with my W. Up to that point I had not discussed this with anyone. The shame of it all had been bottled up for over 30 years! But when I shared it with my W she made the comment, "it all makes perfect sense now." "Thanks for telling me." And then we held each other for a long time.


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,687
Likes: 236
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Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
The fact that I see it now almost immediately after it happens and sometimes before, tells me that I am making progress.



If you notice, the word "after" is highlighted.

2,

This could be any of the things that you have mentioned that are sprinkled amongst your posts.

And yes, this is exaggerated to a degree. As miniscule as this appears, it is common among us that are/were control freaks.

I know that behavior well, because I lived it too.

When I speak of it, it is because at some point in time, I have been just as guilty as the next guy.

The problem with control , is that we recognize that pattern AFTER we have expressed it. And we use WORDS to cover our ACTIONS up. We can say I'm sorry a million times, yet the damage has already been done. You can't un-ring a bell.

I thought I was doing the right things, with the subtle hints, and the "looking out for mistakes". Yet what I was doing was driving a wedge that would lead to the demise of my marriage.

When I worked up the courage to Google "controlling behavior" I was much like anyone else. I was shocked to see what that looked like from a healthy standpoint. I was ANGRY, and I immediately went into denial. I couldn't be that guy...could I ?


What I saw , looked exactly like the man I had become. I had allowed my fears to take me over. I used my fears as a shield , my defense weapon. and what I had found was, that I was embarrassed by MY behavior. My fears had driven me to work toward them, instead of away from them.

I lashed out at the people that were trying to help me through this. I felt that they " just didn't understand me" . When in actuality, they understood quite well. I was the one who didn't get it.

Do you realize that control can be as simple as....

You are walking through the kitchen while your spouse is cooking. as you walk by, you taste what she is cooking, and add salt without asking...???

Sounds petty huh ?

You know what ?

1+1+1+1+1+1....will eventually get you to 1 million



Originally Posted By: 2

Ok, now that I've rehashed all that old baggage, I should point out that what I early on described as "selfishness" was really probably more "control type" behavior. I am a manager by trade and my W has told me in the past "I don't need to be managed!" So there is one great example of how I was controlling. I'd often come across as demanding she do things. Even though that was not my intent, that is how I came across.


It's not just me telling you this either.... ^^^^^

It is something that your spouse dealt with, and it appears the topic "stings" you a bit...

I'm glad you are recognizing the root of the issue.

Thank you for sharing something that personal here, I understand how difficult that is.

Digging into that crap is HARD work. And I applaud you for taking measures to change yourself.

Accepting that you played a part in the breakdown of the relationship is essential to healing. Accepting that is hard to look at. Knowing the details can cause a flurry of emotion.


The end result ?

If you choose to do the work ?



Priceless......

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Good stuff, Mach! I was such a controller and am slowly recovering from that. My marriage may not make it but I will be a happier person. The more of this type information I read, the more what I need to do, how I need to think, sinks in. I helps the most when the little things are dissected because many of those are such ingrained behaviors.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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...just as I was attempting to move towards the light at the end of the tunnel, M1 pulls me back into the dark shadows! cry


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 951
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Lol, get to work 2!


Me- 34 W-33
S15 S10 S6
Married- 11 Together- 18
Bomb- 6-2011
WAW moves out- 8-2011

"Nothing in the Universe can stop you from letting go and starting over at anytime"- Guy Finley
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Got a call and text message from my W today. Or at least I thought she called. So I call back and get her voice mail. I say "Hi 'Hon', saw that you called. Just calling you back."

Later I realize she hadn't called, just sent me a text picture of S10's arm in a cast. Doh!

Is it possible for your WAW to still be a "Hon"?

Old habits die hard!! wink


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 951
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I do the same thing every now and then just out of habit as well. I used to always call my W "babe" and I try not to say it but it slips out every now and then and I'm like, noooooo.

Don't sweat it.


Me- 34 W-33
S15 S10 S6
Married- 11 Together- 18
Bomb- 6-2011
WAW moves out- 8-2011

"Nothing in the Universe can stop you from letting go and starting over at anytime"- Guy Finley
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