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#2214252 - 01/20/12 03:55 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10753
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: Snowman
Mr Bond-No more BUTTS even though everybody's got one, jk. Ok, I just sent the money to my W.

Positive-My wife said thank you when I told her I would send her the money.

it was probably a 180 of yours not to lecture or criticize her or mind read about what she is doing "wrong" with the money so, good for you. And I'm glad she said "thanks"...keep this up.

As long as you are protecting your marital assets, what she does with money that she's legally entitled to and or that you agreed to give, isn't your concern.

Even if you want to spend energy justifying your irritation at her, again, I'd say "but you have NO control over this -so why bother spending ANY energy on it?"

when you learn to let go of what you cannot control, you'll be making a huge step forward in being a happier person, and a man much easier to be around.



Also, my S & W called me as I was typing this because he was apparently scared of shadows. We talked about figuring out our S's sleeping problems and I told my W I had transferred the money. It was a positive conversation for me I felt like.

good!!...build on these^^^ one layer at a time


ANS-I will have to think about what was truly said as that was July of 2011 when the bomb hit. She has since apologized for a lot of what was said and even said she would take back most of it if she could in a text so I don't know what was real or not. This is were I have work to do.


YES it is your work to do. Don't blow this chance by not digging deep. Figure out what your issues are and work like heck at repairing them.

Being controlling isn't a light trait to deal with as a spouse. It mostly comes out as criticism and the intention behind it, is irrelevant to most WASs....they are tired of feeling edgy around the controlling person, or wounded, or demeaned...

they often withdraw as they tire of conflict. In fact that's a very common response. The quieter she gets, the more reassurance she needs.

She isn't the type of person who likes to hash things out, and you sound as if you are. IMO your behavior could be more easily modified in this scenario, than hers. You have to be calmer and she has to speak up more.
But you'd need to take the first (several) steps before she'll feel comfortable sharing openly with you. There's a lot of marital history to overcome.

She can own what she feels and speak up, but she won't if she fears your reaction. And you are in charge of that reaction.

The priest who married my h and I once said

"of course deceit in a marriage is bad. But don't give your spouse a reason to deceive you, by over reacting, berating or lecturing.

If your spouse dents the car and you lose your temper, or rant, or you go on and on or bring up past events, or lecture, the next time something happens to the car, you won't know...b/c your spouse won't feel like sharing that info and he'll learn NOT to tell you unpleasant things. And life has a lot of those..."

and that will undermine the marriage. So keep that in mind. Even if YOU feel you did not over react or lecture

your W probably thinks you do....and that is what matters.

I do hope you lose the scorecard. A good example of this was when I noticed that you said you "gave her notice about my trip" and THEN she told you about hers...that almost implies you were doing something above board, and she wasn't.

But to me, it looks as if you darn near both did identical things. You told her after the fact that you had made plans for a trip. You presented it as a fait accompli, & that affects her b/c she'll have your son. You did not ask her if you could go. You informed her.

THEN She shared that she is also taking a trip. Looks pretty similar to me.

You say you are losing the scorecard and I hope you do b/c it's crucial for you to grasp that on HER scorecard she is a long suffering victim.

I suspect she didn't know how or when to tell you and your disclosure made it obvious that it was THEN she needed to tell you.

Anyhow it's not a big deal -- but I hope you can see that your viewpoint was pretty biased...and that's NOT helpful to you.

The more you can understand HER point of view, the better off YOU will be. I hope you get this.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2214305 - 01/20/12 02:22 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
ANS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 2694
Originally Posted By: Snowman
ANS-I will have to think about what was truly said as that was July of 2011 when the bomb hit. She has since apologized for a lot of what was said and even said she would take back most of it if she could in a text so I don't know what was real or not. This is were I have work to do.

That's cool Snowman. I have just one thought. I wouldn't throw out the stuff she retracted. It may not be as important as the things she still considers to be true, but maybe those "unreal" complaints have something you can learn from anyway. Maybe you can still learn something about what drives her negative perceptions of you, y'know?
_________________________
Andy

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#2214788 - 01/22/12 07:31 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: ANS]
Snowman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 148
Well, my ride with my W has come to an end. She delivered the D papers. I signed the paper saying I was server but not the others as there are things to be revised. She got what she wanted out of the kitchen while I played with my son. I tried what I could and I know it was not always my best at times but I can go away saying I gave ti my all. I will meet with my L to revise some things and get this done. It is disappointing but I'm ready to move on. I will continue to heal and work on myself with you guys but I don't want to fight the divorce anymore. I will let her take her new path. Thanks for all your help and continue to provide it as I know I will need it. What a Sunday frown
_________________________
Me:29
W:28
S:2
M: 5 years
Bomb: 7-26-11
Separated: 8-20-11
EA w/ multiple OMs
W filed 1/2012

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#2214789 - 01/22/12 07:41 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10753
Loc: west coast
I have 2 family members who finished their m's...they divorced...

only to remarry a few years later, so it happens.

(They say it was better the 2nd time around & I believe them. My uncle died a few years ago, but his w and children were at his bedside at the moment of death, expressing their love for him, b/c of the reconciliation.

Otherwise I fear, he'd have died alone.)

And in the state of California, a third of divorces that get filed, are never completed. So leave her to her task so she can take a breath and look at where she is, without the pressure of your needs.

I hope you won't give up so fast and please don't refuse to dig deep.


I am left with the sense that you are relieved by this. It's as if you no longer have to wonder about what YOU did to contribute to this--that bothers me--

and now you think the few minor changes you might make, will suffice, or you'll "just pick better" next time.

But it does not work that way.

Most divorced people do NOT learn what they should or could have learned from their first marriage's failure.

That's why the divorce rate is higher for 2nd m's....


Be different. Be smarter, and braver than those people...or you'll be hurt again.

Hey-if you want to give up, so be it. We all have our limits.

But make sure it's a choice you are making - not out of pride or anger...or even frustration,

but honest reflection, and a profoundly deep understanding of how you got here, and humility.

And in case you don't know it,

I am very sorry for your pain Snowman...
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2214806 - 01/22/12 10:02 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Snowman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 148
25yearsmlc-I'm not relieved by this at all and I will not stop my work on how I contributed to this. I truly want to become a better me. I don't want to take my bad things into my future relationships.

I'm not making this decision out or pride, anger, or frustration. I'm making it because this is what my W wants and I love her. I'm not going to fight some legal battle to stall the divorce. We have always decided in this that we would not drag this through the courts or anything else so the only task left at hand is to have my L review/change what I would like and give her the signed final papers, other than that it could only get into a ugly L battle.

I have been humbled more then I could ever explain and I have spent more time on my knees praying than ever before.

Please do paint the picture like I'm giving it, that bothers me. What would you have me do at this point, not sign anything and force her to use her L to make me sign it and take all that I have away as well as my S? I will not take that route.

I will continue to work on me as I said before. I know my work or journey is not done. I still think I should probably write the letter that Kaffe mentioned and it will truly be as if it is my true last communication with my W. What do you think?
_________________________
Me:29
W:28
S:2
M: 5 years
Bomb: 7-26-11
Separated: 8-20-11
EA w/ multiple OMs
W filed 1/2012

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#2214848 - 01/23/12 01:46 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10753
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: Snowman
25yearsmlc-I'm not relieved by this at all and I will not stop my work on how I contributed to this. I truly want to become a better me. I don't want to take my bad things into my future relationships.

that's wise



I'm not making this decision out or pride, anger, or frustration.

I said to "make sure" you are not...and I'm glad you checked that.



I'm making it because this is what my W wants and I love her. I'm not going to fight some legal battle to stall the divorce. We have always decided in this that we would not drag this through the courts or anything else


that^^ was Not clear to me. I thought you did not want the divorce. I understand you have been fighting for 2 years, and nothing improved and sounds as if nothing new was tried...or changed...

But DBing is relatively new to you...and it's a simple but radically different approach to marital problems. It's not about the past or the baggage, but how to fix things "from this day forward." it's solution based therapeutic approach to problems you have NOW.

My h and I had seen 4 mc's...literally, before DBing began on my end. ALL of them told me h was "acting single/selfish" "as if he had no family to consider" "as if he wanted ME to file", etc.

H said I had "brainwashed all of them" b/c I am a L and speak persuasively. He refused to go anymore so it did me NO good to have them all agree with me.

NOT One told me what to do or how to improve things...it was all about being "stuck with a selfish h" like I was RIGHT BUT POWERLESS...


then I got into DBing and found a pro=m mc and I CHANGED...and then WE changed...

NOT saying it works for all. It does not.



so the only task left at hand is to have my L review/change what I would like and give her the signed final papers, other than that it could only get into a ugly L battle.

I have been humbled more then I could ever explain and I have spent more time on my knees praying than ever before.

I accept that this^^^ has happened to you and it's a very painful experience. However, it CAN lead to an incredible transformation...



Please do paint the picture like I'm giving it, that bothers me.


Not sure what that^^^ sentence means. I pose questions to you, and or I tell you how something you wrote strikes me.


What would you have me do at this point, not sign anything and force her to use her L to make me sign it and take all that I have away as well as my S? I will not take that route.

never EVER suggested that^^^. I oppose using the legal system to punish....

Nor do I think that's the only option you have. But since you sound resolute, I'll drop it.



I will continue to work on me as I said before. I know my work or journey is not done.


That's true of most of us. But you struck me and a few others in a similar way. Try not to blow it off b/c it annoys you; try hard to use it FOR your growth. We're not professionals.

But we see things and tell it like we see it HERE, from what YOU, the poster here posting, writes to us...that's all we can do.

I still think I should probably write the letter that Kaffe mentioned and it will truly be as if it is my true last communication with my W. What do you think?


Can't see how it would hurt. But I don't know the contents of the letter so I'm going by my assumption that KD is suggesting a constructive tone and content.

Crimson wrote one to his w and they are now going to see a mc to "process" it. So it sure didn't hurt his cause.


Good luck

_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2214873 - 01/23/12 04:21 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
... I'm going by my assumption that KD is suggesting a constructive tone and content.

Crimson wrote one to his w and they are now going to see a mc to "process" it. So it sure didn't hurt his cause.


ding, ding, ding! smile Yup...

"first day, last day" principle as the context of the letter. Once done, it's done. No take backs, no regrets, only honest and deep, heart felt authenticity. No blame, no shame.

FWIW Snowman, letter writing is not something that is often recommended as it is seen as pursuing. And as I believe you understand, this letter would in no way be to win her back nor to pursue nor persuade her.

And as always, it is a choice...

One thing that I see a lot of here and otherwise is the complete belief that BECAUSE we did something and DID NOT do something else, those things were the reasons for success or failure.

The reality is, when we set on a path from point A to point B, we will never know the experience nor results of any other path we COULD have chosen.

If there are 100 paths, 100 of them could lead to failure or 100 of them could lead to success. Do or don't do. And if you feel you have done EVERYTHING you could have done, or more likely everything that you are prepared to do and you are ready to throw in the towel... that too is a choice and it is up to you whether the result is success or failure... for you...

But you know that... smile

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#2214898 - 01/23/12 05:04 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Snowman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 148
Quote:

that^^ was Not clear to me. I thought you did not want the divorce. I understand you have been fighting for 2 years, and nothing improved and sounds as if nothing new was tried...or changed...


I don't want a divorce. New things were tried and I have changed. I sort of went in waves at first when trying DB but I have done things to change. I'm still working on me and will continue to do so.

Quote:
But DBing is relatively new to you...and it's a simple but radically different approach to marital problems. It's not about the past or the baggage, but how to fix things "from this day forward." it's solution based therapeutic approach to problems you have NOW.


Yes, I know this.

Quote:
My h and I had seen 4 mc's...literally, before DBing began on my end. ALL of them told me h was "acting single/selfish" "as if he had no family to consider" "as if he wanted ME to file", etc.

H said I had "brainwashed all of them" b/c I am a L and speak persuasively. He refused to go anymore so it did me NO good to have them all agree with me.

NOT One told me what to do or how to improve things...it was all about being "stuck with a selfish h" like I was RIGHT BUT POWERLESS...


then I got into DBing and found a pro=m mc and I CHANGED...and then WE changed...

NOT saying it works for all. It does not.


I know it does no good to have everyone agree with me. I have learned that just like you did. I also had found a pro-M MC but she didn't want to go.

Quote:
Nor do I think that's the only option you have. But since you sound resolute, I'll drop it.


What other options do you think I have?

Quote:
That's true of most of us. But you struck me and a few others in a similar way. Try not to blow it off b/c it annoys you; try hard to use it FOR your growth. We're not professionals.

But we see things and tell it like we see it HERE, from what YOU, the poster here posting, writes to us...that's all we can do.


I will use it for growth. I know you can only see what you get from the posts which is sometimes frustrating as I feel like I have been painted as a worse person than I am. Most people know me as the meek and humble person of the group but that doesn't really come across in this forum because a lot has been frustration and anger which I know. I always wanted whats best for my W and be the best husband/father I could be. I'm not perfect and I'm working on it.

Quote:
Can't see how it would hurt. But I don't know the contents of the letter so I'm going by my assumption that KD is suggesting a constructive tone and content.

Crimson wrote one to his w and they are now going to see a mc to "process" it. So it sure didn't hurt his cause.


I would not write a scathing letter or any other kind of negative letter.

Quote:
FWIW Snowman, letter writing is not something that is often recommended as it is seen as pursuing. And as I believe you understand, this letter would in no way be to win her back nor to pursue nor persuade her.


I know it is not to win her back.

Quote:
One thing that I see a lot of here and otherwise is the complete belief that BECAUSE we did something and DID NOT do something else, those things were the reasons for success or failure.

The reality is, when we set on a path from point A to point B, we will never know the experience nor results of any other path we COULD have chosen.

If there are 100 paths, 100 of them could lead to failure or 100 of them could lead to success. Do or don't do. And if you feel you have done EVERYTHING you could have done, or more likely everything that you are prepared to do and you are ready to throw in the towel... that too is a choice and it is up to you whether the result is success or failure... for you...


I agree that we don't know the results of any one path we choose but we must pick a path. I don't know what else I can do at this point. What suggestions would you have me do?
_________________________
Me:29
W:28
S:2
M: 5 years
Bomb: 7-26-11
Separated: 8-20-11
EA w/ multiple OMs
W filed 1/2012

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#2214907 - 01/23/12 05:35 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: Snowman
I agree that we don't know the results of any one path we choose but we must pick a path. I don't know what else I can do at this point. What suggestions would you have me do?


Understand that I am not a professional counselor, therapist, nor life coach. I have a background and experience that I draw from and that is all.

I am getting a sense that you are moving into a deeper stage of grief or possibly acceptance and this could be very helpful in your search to find the words for your letter. This is as much a therapeutic exercise for you.

I may have another thought on this as you work on this, and before the letter is sent off, I'd like to discuss it with you. Just to be clear on that. I think I may have said write it and send it, and if so, I've changed my mind.

There is a concept called "first day, last day". As is obvious, this is two fold that consists of:

first day - Imagine this is the first day you have been alive. You have past to draw on which includes no positive, but more importantly, no negative. You are seeing the world for the very first time, like through the eyes of a child.

No, transpose that to your W. Do your best to see your W as someone you have only just met. Picture her in your mind and what do you see? What beauty does she posses? Dig into her inner beauty, not just her outer beauty. What is it that draws you to her? Why do you love her?

This is the focus for your context.

last day - as today is the first day, and the world is amazing and wonderful, also imagine this is the very last day you have on this earth. THERE IS NO TOMORROW.

This is an old concept of keeping people in the present. There is no guarantee that we will wake up tomorrow morning. Some people have this reality to deal with... most of us are blissfully oblivious of this possible reality.

If this were the very last day you had on earth (or just as easily, the last day your W had on this earth), what would you do with her? What would you say to her?

Imagine how you would miss her... her smell... the sound of her voice... her touch... how you feel when you are with her...

What do you really want her to know?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does that help you to get started?

Please ask questions and I will help you through this, but these are your words and these are your feelings and this is a letter that you need to write as it needs to be absolutely genuine and true to who you are... or who you would like to be... if you know what you have done "wrong", let her know... if you know what you would do "better", let her know...

And keep me posted on your progress. Keep the letter to two or less, double spaced pages.

Take some time to really get into the first day / last day frame. Some will meditate over it, or pray over it as you may. Feel the weight and gravity of the last day... really feel the joy and wonder of first day...

And once you have had the time to dwell on that... begin writing your last letter to your sweetheart...

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#2214910 - 01/23/12 05:44 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Oh, and yes... that was specifically about the letter...

But as far as the path... Man... I wish I had a crystal ball, but I don't...

I can say only this: Consider as many paths before you... make a choice of which to follow... be 100% committed to that choice and 100% clear of your responsibilities associated with your choice... and start moving forward.

I concede and appologize that is a cryptic answer and not really helpful.

I could suggest that you get down on your knees and from the deepest sorrow and angst of your soul, profess your undying love for your W and how you will support her on a pedestal for the rest of her life... but I won't...

I could suggest that you surrender to the reality that you cannot control and that you should now begin the process of financial separation and divorce and get on with your life without your W... but I won't...

I could suggest that you deny and ignore any and all negative aspects of your M, and just carry on with life, oblivious to and even in disregard to your W's wishes and desires... but I won't...

Because the harsh reality is... even the most difficult of things that are about us... are thing we need to do ourselves...

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