Forgiveness

[antlers]

or make sure you send HER copies of the good news from the school AND the bad news... Haven't done that in the past, nor has she with our daughter. I can start though.

seek her input and assume the best of her motives...that would be a real 180 for you. 2thepoint gave me some good things to start with regarding seeking her input. Assuming the best of her motives...that's gonna be difficult...with good reason. I'm willing to try.

You honestly seem to think she's solely motivated by a desire to hurt you.
I don't buy that. And It sure fuels your negative views of things and helps no one...especially you. Yes, I honestly think she's very interested and motivated by a desire to hurt me. Well, I've lived it and been on the receiving end of it for over 3 years now. I wish it weren't so. Yep, it causes me to have a negative view of certain things. I think it's natural to keep your guard up when it's warranted. Getting my ass kicked up between my ears by her doesn't help me either!

Finally, almost all of this is beyond your control. Remember to let that go. Absolutely. I'm pretty powerless over most all of this stuff. I will remember that. I'm trying to not be afraid of what she might do...to let that fear go. And I hope the thing that worries me doesn't come to pass.

Remember how you said you were letting go? Yes. I feel like I'm doing pretty darn good too, before this newest batch of crap. I'm still letting go of her and the past.

so don't get sucked into the parent contest anymore, and don't make this all about YOU and how you will be hurt by it financially or otherwise. It's about my son, but she can sure cause me some problems if she tries to take him away from me. I have to be aware of that. And I would be hurt by it in a big way. I do not want to do battle with her anymore!

You both love the kids and want what's best for them. Stop assuming, out loud, that she does not. I base my statements on 3 years worth of previous experience. I want it to be that we both love them, and they love and need us both. And we work together to help them and put their needs first. That's what I want.

That's competitive of you, not her. Or it's mutual. LET IT GO... I understand that letting go of the fear and the situation is appropriate. I may be getting worked up over nothing. I really don't mind if he spends time there.

Back off and focus on the school issues, involving her with them as well. Back off is exactly what I've done since he went over there.

Give her something to live UP TO, rather than assuming the worst of her, which just fuels more negativity on both sides.

I'd sure like to see a positive change in her in her dealings with me regarding the kids.

[25yearsmlc]

or make sure you send HER copies of the good news from the school AND the bad news... Haven't done that in the past, nor has she with our daughter. I can start though.


(I'll insert "25" or post mine in bold/underline so it's semi clear)...

25: YES you can start involving her as a parent in the kids's schoolwork. Our school district lets you go online to check the homework assignments and grades your kids have. Most now do so and every teacher is available by email or phone.

You don't even have to ask your son or daughters how they're doing in school; you can verify for yourself how they are doing and what's due or coming up...


seek her input and assume the best of her motives...that would be a real 180 for you. 2thepoint gave me some good things to start with regarding seeking her input. Assuming the best of her motives...that's gonna be difficult...with good reason. I'm willing to try.


25: You say there are "good reasons for assuming the worst". Hmmm

I'm betting they are based on THE PAST and your perception of it...(leaving aside your own role in a lot of this.)

Yet you just posted about not wanting to be "punished forever for your past sins"...you claim to have changed but complain that too few believe you or are still living in the past, staying hurt...

but look at your pattern right here...doing that exact thing to your w.

You never thought to show her the information from the school? If the roles were reversed in this, how would you feel about her excluding you from relevant school information AND having custody of the child?

So I think you are applying a double standard-

you want to move forward in your life and have others let go of YOUR past...do the same for her.

Be here now, today. And go from this day forward. No matter what else she did in the past--let it go. Start fresh.

Your negative assumptions & projections of her intent do not help you. Please see this.

They hurt you, or at best just make you feel worse and IN THE PAST--when you felt bad about your life, or yourself, you took it out on them...

(this is all stuff you've said in your posts)...

Some say "hope for the best but prepare for the worst"...

well it's fine to prepare for the worst, but stop assuming it, fearing it, expecting it, and borrowing it from tomorrow.

Stop what you know is not helpful...
Our thoughts matter...and you actually CAN control THOSE.


You honestly seem to think she's solely motivated by a desire to hurt you.
I don't buy that. And It sure fuels your negative views of things and helps no one...especially you. Yes, I honestly think she's very interested and motivated by a desire to hurt me. Well, I've lived it and been on the receiving end of it for over 3 years now. I wish it weren't so.

25: I'm not claiming she isn't angry at you. She is. She thinks you are still the same morose bully you were before. She probably thinks it's unfair you have son...

and as mother I would feel terrible if one of my kids chose to live w/their father instead of me. But I don't believe her motivation is SOLELY to hurt you; that's just a bonus perhaps?

Point is, again, your attitude isn't helping you.

Yep, it causes me to have a negative view.

25: YOU CAUSE YOUR VIEWS...

Getting my ass kicked up between my ears by her doesn't help me either!

Finally, almost all of this is beyond your control. Remember to let that go. Absolutely. I'm pretty powerless over most all of this stuff. I will remember that. I'm trying to not be afraid of what she might do...to let that fear go. And I hope the thing that worries me doesn't come to pass.

Remember how you said you were letting go? Yes. I feel like I'm doing pretty darn good too, before this newest batch of crap. I'm still letting go of her and the past.

It's about my son, but she can sure cause me some problems if she tries to take him away from me. I have to be aware of that.


25: you're more than "aware" of it. You seem paralyzed by it, and you are giving up all your poweer.


And I would be hurt by it in a big way. I do not want to do battle with her anymore!

You both love the kids and want what's best for them. Stop assuming, out loud, that she does not. I base my statements on 3 years worth of previous experience. I want it to be that we both love them, and they love and need us both. And we work together to help them and put their needs first. That's what I want.

25: well maybe you cannot have that. You two can work as parents but not work together anytime soon. Your grievance lists against each other are too long to ever resolve, imo.

Even if you were put into prison cells and told to "work it out", I fear you would be there for years. Hence the request that you let it go.


That's competitive of you, not her. Or it's mutual. LET IT GO... I understand that letting go of the fear and the situation is appropriate. I may be getting worked up over nothing. I really don't mind if he spends time there.

Back off and focus on the school issues, involving her with them as well. Back off is exactly what I've done since he went over there.

Give her something to live UP TO, rather than assuming the worst of her, which just fuels more negativity on both sides.

I'd sure like to see a positive change in her in her dealings with me regarding the kids.

25: maybe you will and maybe you won't. Why is this so crucial, given that you two parent separately now? I don't see any "ideal" resolution coming from your wish list.

I can't help it Antlers, there's something about this that smacks of you being hurt and wanting to control others again...and I sense it's such a pattern and you say "b/c it's NEW crap" but it is not new. It's a repeat of other chapters from the same book.

Your son played you against each other and you both play into it. You can withdraw. If your son stays there and IF she wants more child support to cover his costs, which is the worst case scenario...

it is not fatal. You'd survive that.

Meanwhile you are making yourself miserable ahead of time....

[2thepoint]

"I'd sure like to see a positive change in her in her dealings with me regarding the kids."

Try to think of a way to communicate this ^^^^ to your your Ex without it coming across as blaming (even though the blame seems to be clearly justified).

Something like, "Ex, I know we have been at each other in our various interactions and I'd really like to try to find some common ground as it relates to the kids. I love them and I know you do too. Here's what I'm thinking.... what are your thoughts?" Saying "we" in the opening statement takes a little of the sting out of your comment while at the same time shows you taking some ownership as well which I believe helps to create common ground"

[antlers]

25...We have a system in our school district that allows us to go online and check our kids grades and schoolwork. And all of the teachers are available by e-mail or phone. But sometimes there are other communications and situations related to school regarding my son that are only sent/or made known to me...and the same goes for my daughter and her mother. These are situations where we both could communicate with each other. And we could also seek each others input regarding the kids grades and such. Assuming the best of her motives would certainly be different.
Yes, my assumptions are based on past experience. My perception of it was certainly a reality for me. My role in this has been what it has...I've owned it since day one...I've not denied anything that I've done. I have changed 25. I'm able to have compassion, for others and myself. I didn't before. Anger does not control me anymore. It once did. I now realize that love from others shouldn't be taken for granted. It should be nourished daily, constantly...and seen for the blessing it truly is. I'm more patient, understanding, and kind. And I want to do better. I have no control over whether others believe it or not. I don't deny that I'm still hurt by the past. I have no intentions of punishing her if the situation arises. She 'has' excluded me from relevant school information concerning our daughter that she has custody of. At least as much, if not more, than I have her. No double standard there. She's also excluded me from relevant legal information concerning our daughter that she has custody of (regarding her arrest for shoplifting, court appearances, community service, etc.). I've had to go to the court to find out this information on my own. I do want to move forward in my life, I do want to let go completely of my past, it'd be nice if others would let go of my past...but I have no control over that. I honestly wish they'd let go of it for their own benefit...so it wouldn't cause them any more pain or affect their future happiness. I wish it for their benefit MUCH more than for my own. I see your point though...you want me to let go of 'her' past too. "Be here now, today. And go from this day forward. No matter what else she did in the past--let it go. Start fresh." OK. I do see the utter importance of this. I do realize that my negative assumptions and projections of her intent don't help me. It is hard though, to just push aside how she's dealt with me in the past. I don't take anything out on anybody anymore, except maybe myself. Hurt, feeling bad...I just feel them now...but I don't take it out on others. "It's fine to prepare for the worst, but stop assuming it, fearing it, expecting it, and borrowing it from tomorrow." OK. That makes sense and I do see how important that is. These are the kinds of things that I really benefit from in communicating with you...these statements that you make that really strike a cord. " Stop what you know is not helpful...
Our thoughts matter...and you actually CAN control THOSE." Again, I agree wholeheartedly.
I must let go of things that are beyond my control.
Maybe my wish for co-parenting isn't possible. But I do feel it would be in the best interests of our kids if we could. I think she still holds a lot more resentment toward me than I hold negative feelings regarding her. She's made it clear to my brother. It'd sure be in the kids best interests if we weren't at war with each other anymore. I guess 'let it go' rings true again here. Shouldn't I at least put forth an effort though, when the time is right?
Because parenting separately hasn't been beneficial for the kids.
I have no desire to control anybody but me. I am hurt; I think anybody would be under these circumstances. Him leaving our home and being over there for this long IS new. The problems that it presents ARE new.
Yep, he played us. I see it for what it is. He didn't get his way and ran to the other parent. She sees it differently. She sent a text to my brother saying that he needed time in a "happy, peaceful, truthful, positive environment". Yeah...I wouldn't die from that worst case scenerio...but it truly would be awful for me.
I do realize that I'm making myself miserable thinking about it, and the possibilities of it getting worse...ahead of time. I'll work on that the best I can.

[antlers]

"I'd sure like to see a positive change in her in her dealings with me regarding the kids."

Try to think of a way to communicate this ^^^^ to your your Ex without it coming across as blaming (even though the blame seems to be clearly justified).

Something like, "Ex, I know we have been at each other in our various interactions and I'd really like to try to find some common ground as it relates to the kids. I love them and I know you do too. Here's what I'm thinking.... what are your thoughts?" Saying "we" in the opening statement takes a little of the sting out of your comment while at the same time shows you taking some ownership as well which I believe helps to create common ground"

That's all good stuff 2thepoint. Thank you. I agree with what you've said here, and I'll use it when the time is right. Hopefully sooner than later.

[25yearsmlc]

25...We have a system in our school district that allows us to go online and check our kids grades and schoolwork. And all of the teachers are available by e-mail or phone. But sometimes there are other communications and situations related to school regarding my son that are only sent/or made known to me...and the same goes for my daughter and her mother. These are situations where we both could communicate with each other.


Since you only control YOU, then YOU START sending her the info about your son, regardless of whether she does the same for you re: daughter.

Set the example, with zero expectations that she'll follow suit.

You'll know you did right by him and her. That's got to be enough for you.



And we could also seek each others input regarding the kids grades and such. Assuming the best of her motives would certainly be different.
Yes, my assumptions are based on past experience. My perception of it was certainly a reality for me. My role in this has been what it has...I've owned it since day one...I've not denied anything that I've done. I have changed 25.

You SAY this^^^ often. Most posts...now SHOW it. Drop the past. You can't change it.

In sum, You want HER to change. You want HER to apologize or "own" her stuff and that may never ever happen.

Even if it did happen, internally, you might not ever know. Do you really want to keep hoping and waiting for it and getting hurt when it does not happen? I say all this for YOUR sake.

I'm able to have compassion, for others and myself. I didn't before. Anger does not control me anymore. It once did. I now realize that love from others shouldn't be taken for granted. It should be nourished daily, constantly...and seen for the blessing it truly is. I'm more patient, understanding, and kind. And I want to do better.

Sorry for the bluntness, but just DO better now. I have read the above^^^ from you countless times. Then you come here, and with the exception of the recent posts about your youngest d, you vent, and then vent again, and you stay stuck.

You are hurt now. That will happen again. React in a new way for you. That's what "doing better" means..


I have no control over whether others believe it or not. I don't deny that I'm still hurt by the past. I have no intentions of punishing her if the situation arises.
She 'has' excluded me from relevant school information concerning our daughter that she has custody of. At least as much, if not more, than I have her. No double standard there.


Seriously? Um, you still have the measuring Scorecard...lose it. Just set the example of what YOU think "co-parenting" means and drop it.

You keep talking about how great/nice/beneficial it would be for the kids if you two got along "for their sake"---- but you don't get along.

Whether she won't or can't, or you two are too ingrained in decades of toxic communications, is truly irrelevant atm.

You only control how you react...don't spend energy on the unfairness of it all...

You want UNFAIR? Check out Africa...or Cambodia, or most of the world, to get some perspective...

She's also excluded me from ----- I do want to move forward in my life, I do want to let go completely of my past,

What is stopping you? You say a lot of "want to" or "will try to" but what is stopping you from DOING these things?

it'd be nice if others would let go of my past...but I have no control over that


yes it would be nice. But when you say you are letting go-BUT then often check to see if they are being "fair back" to you or reciprocating, makes it seem that your changes are only for the sake of getting THEM to reciprocate.

A real change in you would happen regardless of what they do or think or say.
You would only focus on how YOU responded differently..in many, many months time, you MAY notice a change in how they behave. Or not.

But you still do your work.

Antlers, Swim to the other shore without looking over your shoulder to see if they're following you. It slows down your progress a lot.


.--- I see your point though...you want me to let go of 'her' past too. "Be here now, today. And go from this day forward. No matter what else she did in the past--let it go. Start fresh." OK. I do see the utter importance of this. I do realize that my negative assumptions and projections of her intent don't help me.

so DO it. Let it go. Don't talk about the process and how you've only been doing it for 3 months out of 3 years, and how it's "new" and "it's hard" and blah blah blah.

Sorry Antlers, but if you KNOW this, then do it.

Is some part of you still thinking it's all got to be even? It won't and it can't be. Accept that, and you'll be a lot farther on the road of letting go.

It is hard though, to just push aside how she's dealt with me in the past. I don't take anything out on anybody anymore, except maybe myself. Hurt, feeling bad...I just feel them now...but I don't take it out on others. "It's fine to prepare for the worst, but stop assuming it, fearing it, expecting it, and borrowing it from tomorrow." OK. That makes sense and I do see how important that is. These are the kinds of things that I really benefit from in communicating with you...these statements that you make that really strike a cord. " Stop what you know is not helpful...
Our thoughts matter...and you actually CAN control THOSE." Again, I agree wholeheartedly.
I must let go of things that are beyond my control.

Maybe my wish for co-parenting isn't possible. But I do feel it would be in the best interests of our kids if we could.


Yes we know you think it's best for the kids. It's just not likely to happen soon, if at all. The ONLY thing YOU can do is model it, or go to court to try and force it.

Which response is the new you going to choose?


I think she still holds a lot more resentment toward me than I hold negative feelings regarding her.


OMG Antlers...you are negatively projecting/mind reading AND measuring-again...geez....NOT important now anyhow. And it's Totally counter productive for your growth...and you are NOT letting go, still....

do you see how I see this?

She's made it clear to my brother. It'd sure be in the kids best interests if we weren't at war with each other anymore.

Yes it would be. It'd also be "nice" or "best for the kids" if you never divorced - or if you never took out your self esteem problems and anger issues on them. You want them to let go of that b/c YOU have changed...but you keep on wanting and expecting the same from them. You may not get it. Ever.

That cannot prevent your own happiness. If it does, then you've missed a big part of this solution based approach to marriage and life.

I guess 'let it go' rings true again here. Shouldn't I at least put forth an effort though, when the time is right?

To MODEL good behavior? Yes. Start today. To expect HER to comply/reciprocate with your expectations? NO. Maybe never.


YOU don't get to MAKE HER do something...unless you go to court, and maybe "win", which you SAY you don't want to do...and which I really believe would backfire on you, again. To them, it will look like control issues of yours or you being punitive.


Because parenting separately hasn't been beneficial for the kids.


Not the way you two do it. Your approach has been tit for tat with personal attacks and or open wounds bleeding onto the kids. YOU CAN stop your part in that.

I have no desire to control anybody but me.

check yourself...I mean, I hope that's true...but check yourself for that.


I am hurt; I think anybody would be under these circumstances. Him leaving our home and being over there for this long IS new.

and that hurts. I get that. But as I recall, It's not the first time he's gone over there. So how is that new?

The problems that it presents ARE new.

you mean financially or what?


Yep, he played us. I see it for what it is. He didn't get his way and ran to the other parent. She sees it differently. She sent a text to my brother saying that he needed time in a "happy, peaceful, truthful, positive environment".

You see that as an insult and maybe it is. So? Plus, SHE may really believe, based on the past, that she's giving an accurate rendition of how it was at your place.

It doesn't matter. If you know the truth, that HAS to be enough for you-- or you'll always be going in circles trying to get people to see it your way.


Yeah...I wouldn't die from that worst case scenerio...but it truly would be awful for me.

does it help to think about what might be awful to you in the future? Of course not. The only "remedy", such as it is, is GAL. So How are your GAL going? I'd like to hear about those.

I do realize that I'm making myself miserable thinking about it, and the possibilities of it getting worse...ahead of time. I'll work on that the best I can.

Antler, just let it go. Put the STOP SIGN in your mind every time you wander over to the "stinkin' thinkin'" land...

no more "work on as best I can"...as the Nike commercial says, JUST DO IT....

(((( ))))

[2thepoint]

Antlers - this was embedded within your post.... "be here now, today"

Think about what that means and how you might apply that in your life.

Be - all of you... Be
Here - right here in the present, not some place else... Here
Now - not tomorrow, not yesterday... Now

[antlers]

I know that I only control me. I don't wanna control anyone else. OK, I'll set the example by starting to send her any info. about our son, regardless of whether she sends me info. about our daughter. And I'll have zero expectations that she'll follow suit. Knowing that I did right by them both will have to be enough.
I don't want to hope and wait for her to acknowledge anything, and then get hurt when it doesn't happen. Not anymore. I know you're saying what you do for my benefit. I need to hear it.
I know that actions speak louder than words. I need to just STFU and 'just DO it'. I do vent here, but I don't wanna stay stuck. Yeah, I'm hurt. I'm sad that my son
left. What is a 'new way' to to react to hurt? I know that reacting in a new way will be doing better.....just don't know what a new way is?
OK. I'll start setting the example of what I think co-parenting means...and have zero expectations. I just think it'd be nice for everyone involved if we didn't do battle anymore. I see very bad stuff everyday in my job...that provides enough perspective if I look for it.
There is really nothing stopping me other than me.....I have no excuses.....even though it's a hard b!tch to do!
Nah...my changes are truly because they needed to be made, period. That's been my motivation. The changes happened, and still are. Not for any reciprocity either. I work real hard at my job. I don't do it to hear a compliment from patients or family members. But when I do get some recognition for my hard work...it is nice. But I do not expect it, nor is that why I work do hard. "Swim to the other shore without looking over your shoulder to see if they're following you. It slows down your progress a lot." That's one I'll remember. Thank you.
I accept that nothing about all of this will never be even. I need to just quit talking about it, and quit thinking about it, and just let it the fuk go!
I'll model it. Fuk court...I don't ever wanna go there again.
Yes, I see how you see it. It shouldn't matter to me anymore, at all, what she thinks or feels about me. Let it go means just that.
Everybody's changed or been affected one way or another because of all of this. The best thing that I can do at this point is STFU and let everything go that i have no control over. Let my changes speak for themselves. Whether or not they're noticed or believed should be irrelevant to me. I know. I should own my happiness and it shouldn't be dependent on what anybody else thinks or feels.
I can control me. I can't control others. I can do what's right, and let others think what they will.
I intend to stop my part in that. I do not want to joust with her anymore, especially about the kids.
I'm OK there. I only want to control me.
The first time he did this he was gone 3 days. He's been gone 2 and 1/2 weeks now. that's a long time. And no communication from him either, although I've reached out twice.
The fear of a possible court battle, with the realization that I am worrying needlessly at this point, regarding custody and money...is what I was referring to.
I agree, the truth has to be enough for me. Period.
I agree, worrying about what might happen on the future does me no good. I've been mountain biking a lot with friends; going again in the morning with them. And I'm taking a group out this morning on a road ride...and we're going long. And tomorrow evening I have a dinner date with a young lady.
OK. I'll let it go, and stop myself from negative thoughts that do me no good. 'Just Do It' is a good mantra.

[25yearsmlc]

GOOD STUFF

[antlers]

Antlers - this was embedded within your post.... "be here now, today"

Think about what that means and how you might apply that in your life.

Be - all of you... Be
Here - right here in the present, not some place else... Here
Now - not tomorrow, not yesterday... Now

I see your point. Thank you for drivin' it home.