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SunFunOne #2228517 03/07/12 04:20 PM
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you can call child protective services

you can call the police and have your son and daughter and friends arrested and charges filed against them for possesion and smoking pot if you know they are doing it

once charged
you can request they attended court mandated treatment
bring in school reports to help back you up

cut a deal with the prosecutor

I have helped parents do it several times

call the school and tell them you suspect he is using
they can test him

(most schools can at least)

if he is dirty...treatment


you are NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT their friend and if they are pissed at you for a long time...so be it

save your children antlers
and don't worry about saving some sort of emotional attachment with them

my parents saved me

my life was more important than if I loved them for a year or not

SunFunOne #2228539 03/07/12 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: SunFunOne
And seriously - when I said that your words and actions don't match - I am talking about telling your wife you wish her love again. Then agonize over the new guy and how he is sleeping over etc. That makes the words seem insincere. I can honestly say that I'm not wishing my ex and maggot "love". I just don't care any more but I won't go that far.

I meant what I said about that Barb. It hurts, but I still meant what I said. It bothers me that he's sleeping over WHEN MY KIDS ARE THERE. That does not make my words insincere.

I appreciate ALL of your advice and feedback, as well as that from all the others who contribute...Sun, fig, 2tp, Kaffe, Gineen, 25...and everybody else. Even if I don't heed it, I still ponder it and appreciate it. It is helpful.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
antlers #2228852 03/08/12 03:41 PM
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So last night I get a text from Ex about some more trouble she's having with our youngest daughter. Below is the entire conversation.....

ex - Just to let you know youngest daughter is pulling her leaving again stunt. You may want to talk to her. I told her I was not putting up with her disrespect and she said she would leave tomorrow. Maybe she should stay with you.

ex - She treats me like sh!t and I'm not putting up with it. Mo more.

me - I understand your frustration. Do you have any ideas on how we can solve these problems of getting our children back on track?

ex - Idk but you may want to see if she wants to stay with you. I haven't seen her since I've been home. Just texted.

ex - I figure you can deal with her better since you can relate to her disrespectful behavior.

me - Can you please clarify that last statement for me...as I'm not clear on what you meant?

ex - I think the first thing I said was a bit more important.

That's the extent of it. I thought about responding again, but I didn't. My daughter called me later and we talked. She told me she had fought with her mom. She was hanging out with the boy that I mentioned earlier...the one who was kicked out of school. They were just roaming the neighborhoods (10 p.m. on a school night). I told her I was comcerned about her; she said she'd stay in touch with me. I wasn't home...went to an NBA game last night. She said they walked around until midnight then she went home and "passed out".
Should Im follow up with her mom or just let it be?


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
antlers #2228937 03/08/12 07:57 PM
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Wow, Antlers! You've got a lot going on. Here are my thoughts....

Your Ex just swung open the door to having your D live with you. Take her up on it and make arrangements starting today. Get her under your roof, with your rules and your care. Then lets see if perhaps that creates a catalyst for getting the other children back on track.

You've been getting good advice from the other posters regarding the challenges you are facing with your children. I believe that you need to take a more assertive approach with them and their behavioral issues. I don't know if the legal route is the best path or something else. I don't have much experience with this. But I can say that sitting back and being helpless is definitely not the answer.

Have you ever heard of "the total transformation system?" It is a self help program that has several cd's/dvd's that are great for learning how to deal with and manage defiant behavior in children of all ages. You might be able to find it at a discount on ebay, craigslist, etc. Take a look at it and see if maybe there is some value for you.

========================

After reading your posts from the past 2-5 days it seems clear to me that you still have not completely let go of your Ex and your M. Man, you have got to let it go or it will drag you down to a place you don't want to be.

Quick story:

A female friend of a friend was married with 2 kids and she left her H for another woman, (apparently she discovered she was gay). They have been D for 5 years. The husband was devastated by the breakup. Not only did he lose his M and his W, but he lost his W to a woman. Talk about a crushing blow to his ego.

The problem is he never recovered from the devastating loss of his W to another woman. As a result, he went into a deep depression. He simply couldn't pull himself out of his funk. His health deteriorated considerably.

One day his daughter went to his house to get some clothes and saw her father sitting in a recliner. Something didn't feel right to her, so she went out to the car and told her mom that she thought dad might be sick. Mom goes in and discovers that he had died. He was 38 years old.

Turns out he had totally let his health decline and he basically just gave up on life. One might deduce that he may have died of a broken heart.

Antlers, you sound depressed to me and I really think you need to do something about it. Having a big GAL might be one solution or perhaps a combination of AD's and GAL might be helpful. Only you know what would be best but I think you need to do something here because you are in a deep funk.

=========================

Regarding the text exchange with your S; I don't know how long it had been since you had communication with him, (seems I remember it being quite a long time) but he opened a little door and you barged right on through like a bull in a china shop.

Remember several weeks ago I suggested that you stop the pursuit and give him some space to find his way, his courage and maybe he'd come seek you out again? I wish you would heed this advice.

Anyway, here is how your reaction to his initial text came across as I read it.

If you are familiar with the movie 16 Candles, then you'll recall the scene where the Geek and Samantha are sitting in a car in the HS auto shop. He's telling her about how much of a schmuck he is with girls and Samantha is trying to be caring and sympathetic and the Geek totally mistakes this as some sort of overture and leans over and starts dry humping on Samantha.

She manages to fend him off and so they continue their conversation and once again he thinks she is sending a signal of interest and again he's all over her! Finally, he gets the message and backs off.

This is how you came across in that text exchange. You get a little signal and WHAM full steam ahead.

Now if you were to take it a little slower (i.e. give your son the clothes he asked for) then maybe things would turn out different and the door would open wider.

Continuing on with my analogy; later in the same scene, after the Geek has bared his soul and stopped his pursuit, he asks Samantha if he can borrow her underwear. And... the rest is history!

I know that was a corny way of trying to convey to you that you need to slow the hell down. When a door cracks open don't go barging through. Rebuild the trust one small gesture at a time and I think you will begin to see movement.

==========================

I picked up something you said earlier about a friend asking you to go to church and that you have declined.

I've got to tell you Antlers, you really should go. You and I have had several back and forth's about prayer and religion and I really believe that you would find great comfort if you would attend church on a regular basis.

First of all it gives you something to do on a Sunday morning, (gets you out in the world and out of your own head). But more importantly, if you can find a way to connect spiritually with God, I think you will begin to see more clearly where your path to peace lies.

I'm not an overly religious person. But since the development of my sitch, I have come back to the church and have found great comfort there. I have also been able to share this with my kids and we have developed a nice little routine and have grown closer as a result.

Just something for you to think about.

I've said enough for now. Sorry for such a long post,

Be well, Antlers!


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
#2228962 03/08/12 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23
Does she understand that if she does come live with you, you will not tolerate her running around all hours of the night and with whomever she wants and firm rules? My daughter knows that. She's not willing to give up the freedom that she has at her mom's house. She likes it the way it is...getting to run around all hours of the night wiht whoever she wants, and not having any firm rules to abide by.


Again, your ex does not want to work with you to get your kids back on track. That'a a shame. Our kids are more important than we are.

What are your ideas? I'm still thinking about what to do under these difficult circumstances.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
2thepoint #2228978 03/08/12 10:19 PM
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2tp.....

There is always a lot going on, and it sometimes changes on a daily basis. I don't know if she meant 'live' with me or 'stay' with me until she comes back to her house. She left a month ago and stayed gone for 5 nights. My daughter is not willing to live with me because I wouldn't let her do the stuff that her mother does. Even though she and I are getting along good these days (we had lunch 3 days in a row earlier this week)...there would be rules and boundries, and consequences...she's not going to subject herself to that.

It's difficult to be "assertive" regarding their behavior under these circumstances...their mother refuses to work with me at all. And if I send her a communication about the kids and their bad behavior, she immediately shows it to them (per my daughter) and uses it as a weapon against me...to make the kids mad at me. They don't want anyone 'bridling' them.
I know some here are mad at me, or frustrated with me, because I'm not calling the police or child protective services...or 'taking the bull by the horns' regarding the situation. I'd walk in front of a train for my kids. Do you honestly think I wouldn't do whatever I could if I thought it would make things better instead of worse? And it can always get worse. Sometimes, as much as we don't like it...or refuse to accept it...there's not a lot that can be done about certain situations under certain circumstances. IF their mom would put their needs before her own resentment and hatred of me...then something positive could be done under these difficult circumstances.
===================================================================================
That may be true 2tp. But I'm doing a lot better than I have been for over the last 3 years. I DO know that. I miss the emotional connection...but I'm letting go of that too...bit by bit. I do get depressed and sad at times. I'm taking steps and making progress...slow as it is.
====================================================================================
He has continued to text me many, many times since then. He wants to buy a video game chair and a vending fridge...and he thinks he'll get a bunch of money if he sells his clothes. The merchandise he wants is easily over $250. Resale shops give penny's on the dollar for items that they DO want. In addition, he's been suspended from school for a period of 8 days over a 9 day period. He's still on suspension. Should he be rewarded for that behavior? He's pretty overbearing...he'll text the same message 50, 60, even 70 times in rapid succession if I don't answer him immediately, regardless of what I'm doing. It's messed up.
====================================================================================I've been to that church before. We all went there a few times. I did like it...I liked the pastor there and the way he presented the message...and the subject matter. I don't know. The lady who goes there is one of my good friends that I ride with. I've shared as much with her as I have you folks here. She's strong.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
antlers #2229285 03/09/12 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: antlers
Originally Posted By: SunFunOne
And seriously - when I said that your words and actions don't match - I am talking about telling your wife you wish her love again. Then agonize over the new guy and how he is sleeping over etc. That makes the words seem insincere. I can honestly say that I'm not wishing my ex and maggot "love". I just don't care any more but I won't go that far.

I meant what I said about that Barb. It hurts, but I still meant what I said. It bothers me that he's sleeping over WHEN MY KIDS ARE THERE. That does not make my words insincere.

I appreciate ALL of your advice and feedback, as well as that from all the others who contribute...Sun, fig, 2tp, Kaffe, Gineen, 25...and everybody else. Even if I don't heed it, I still ponder it and appreciate it. It is helpful.


no matter what you say, or IF you do something

I urge you to say NOTHING about Steve or him being there. It REEKS of jealousy and if you dig deep you ought to be able to see that.


All that is relevant
is the FACT that their schools have sent you reports.

You can mention your belief they are not supervised enough,

which leaves the option of increasing supervision, to your wife. (It'll look better than demanding their return.)
Also please do not mention money or support payments b/c

the first attack you will get is "Antlers is mean and controlling and vindictive AND just wants money"...

Let it roll off. It should roll off b/c it's not true.

Folks, the thing about him just "taking legal action" for Antlers is that the family court WILL ask the kids (14 and over)

where THEY WANT to live.

True, If the non-custodial parent offers evidence that they were doing better with him than they are now or that their education/safety is threatened, that will help.

But it's not a slam dunk...hate to harp on this but the kids have bad memories of their time with Antlers too...

so in their young minds, perhaps, little supervision by mom, is better than feeling criticized/berated by the increased "supervision" Antlers offers them. Goes both ways.

I KNOW you say you are different now Antlers...I get that.

But so far, I don't believe your family is convinced of that.

Yes you ought to pursue something to help the kids out, no matter what else happens

(but leave the w and her bf out of it.


It's not necessary. Her parenting style, or lack thereof, is NOT necessary to point out. Of course a judge will ask "where's mom?" and you need say nothing there). If the kids lie, the judge will see the school reports

(but ask yourself the tough question...why do the kids want to be there so much that they'd have a "virtual' mom, rather than you.


Be ready for the blast back at you. Be ready cope with a blitz about the past and you can say things like

"As I've admitted before, I failed you in many ways in the past,

BUT I've worked hard to change, and at this point in time, your beliefs about me are outdated".

Stay on message. Don't get sucked in. Do not defend specifics from the past. No score cards. NO mention of "w did this/that to ME too!!" NONE of that.

And Antlers, you don't have to say my words. Ask around. Say what feels most authentic to you

but keep it SHORT....and don't go overboard with your well wishes. They sound like posturing to me. Even if sincere.

As fig and other say, You are not trying to win the kid's friendship. You are trying to be a father, and a father recognizes that appropriate discipline

is a form of LOVE.

Nothing warm and fuzzy will happen soon. Maybe your fear is that you'll lose the bond you have with your d. You might.

You can show respect for them (also key) by asking her what SHE thinks. Is SHE concerned about her brother?

Does SHE think the c is a bad idea for him and if so, WHY? Have you ever asked them why they so object to him getting c?

She might believe it's rehashing the past and that is a legit concern. Might even have hurt YOUR R with him more than you know b/c he's reliving the bad stuff. )

Just some ideas to ponder.

Good luck


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
25yearsmlc #2229325 03/10/12 02:46 AM
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I agree 25...

mostly


but I have to say that doing nothing and letting the kids run wild (and by doing nothing I mean, not calling the police, not calling child protective services etc) he is just as guilty as the ex

because I don't care who they say they want to live with

if they are running around
underage
unsupervised
getting suspended from school
hanging out with people who do drugs (lets just assume they are doing drugs and drinking because odds are on that they are)

then they need to be taken away
from ex
antlers

and put somewhere where there IS supervision


and that is what a parent does

the dirty work

figgeroni #2229453 03/10/12 10:03 PM
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Antlers, it's a tough sitch with no easy solution. Your ex actually said she cannot handle daughter and she is not around to supervise her. I have a 14 yr old boy, and he does what I say, he whines, complains, talks back and tells me how mean I am, but no matter, he does what I say.
Your daughter needs to come to your house, it's not her choice, she is a minor, she has no say in the matter, don't ask her. When you described what she was doing I thought she'd be was 17 or more, she is still underage and you are responsible for her, so no more asking, she does what you say and the rules stick and if that 20something guy better stay off, she is a minor.

As for your son, who's paying the cell phone? 50-70 texts?? that is insane. After 4 lengthy texts I just pick up the phone. He gets nothing until he improves his behavior, if he texts you more than 5 times he looses his phone, period. A cell phone is a privilege. I have taken all sorts of things away from my son for talking back to me (that's the worst he's done). For weeks he's gone without internet, ipod, xbox. Right now he's 1 month grounded with no Netflix for messing with me for not giving me the controller of the wii when I asked him to and being disrespectful.

They'll call you mean and others, that's fine, that is your job. The dean of my school would say "if your kids don't call you mean you are not doing your job".

A great book that has helped with my teen, who is a good kid but morphing into a teen is "for parents only" by shaunti feldhahn. Above all, pray earnestly day and night over them.


Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2

30something
2kids
survivor of S, MLC, A, D
I have peace in my heart, at last.
cat03 #2234669 04/01/12 04:44 AM
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Hey Antlers. How are you doing?


Me51 W53 S17 S14
M22 T25
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
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