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SunFunOne #2213190 01/16/12 08:12 PM
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Ant...


I may be wrong here, but I think that letting go is tied very much so to your "ideals" of co-parenting...

I thought that co-parenting was a given..always. Right up until there was a situation with my Daughter, and saw that what my consequences were, played no part in what she lived with with her Mother.

A friend suggested that I google "parallel parenting" and read up on that.

What I realized was, that in my trying to "co-parent" that my ex felt that as some form of me trying to control her actions. And that she probably felt like I was trying to run her life , even away from me. At least that is probably how SHE felt.

Truth is, she was probably right. I still expected things to be as they were, and they weren't. I was working toward an old common goal , and she was working toward being a single parent.

When I started working toward being a single parent, was after I read about parallel parenting.

That is when I dropped the last rope tying our daily interactions together.

It was very freeing for me

Just a thought....

SunFunOne #2213191 01/16/12 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: SunFunOne
I had felt as you - angry, hurt, bitter. I'm not angry anymore. Hurt, yes. But I'll live. And I intend to live well. Not really bitter anymore either. I could not imagine forgiving him as he not only showed no remorse but also continued to inflict pain on us. I couldn't have imagined forgiving her either only a short time ago...but I did. And it's been very helpful to me. And she's never shown any remorse either. She still harbors resentment, and I still think she'd hurt me in any way she could to this day.
"HE WHO ANGERS YOU, CONTROLS YOU" I agree. I'm no longer angry. I'm sad more than anything else. My point is - if a letter will make a difference - do it. He seems to think it will help...if it does...great. If you are just telling her that you forgive her and are letting go. I'm not telling her that I forgive her...that's for me. Telling her that I'm letting go...that's for us both. Again, with the understanding that actions speak louder than words. It might help with the kids. Because actions DO speak louder than words. Agree wholeheartedly. And time heals all wounds. I think that I must take positive actions during that passage of time...and not just depend on the passage of time alone, in order to heal.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
#2213193 01/16/12 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23
to answer your question on how I got that from the text to your brother......

anything you have posted on here in regards to communication to your wife and kids, starts off with a rehashing of the past and how you want forgiveness and the damage that has done before you got to the point of what you were trying to communicate. And your text to your brother kind of seemed like that.

I think there needs to just be a simple "yes, I scan coparent without pursuing.

If you are in a place where you can keep the words to a minimum, and work off of action, then go for it. But I do think you have sent enough lengthly texts and emails in the last few months, and now is the time to put them away and use soley actions.

That's all I meant.

I feel like I'm in a better place now than I've been in a long, long time. I am sad. Very. But I'm moving on without her. I'm resolved to that. And I've forgiven her for the pain that she caused me. I've truly done that. That was huge. And it has helped me in indescribeable ways. And not only that...I truly wish her love, health, and happiness. I think that's pretty huge too. Now...I want my kids to stop being so torn. I can co-parent without pursuing. My actions from here on out will prove that to be true.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Mach1 #2213194 01/16/12 08:30 PM
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Thanks. I have no desire to control anything. My concerns are for my kids. Co-parenting to me is the same as parallel parenting is to you. I only want what's best for them. All along, my exW has refused to 'co-parent' our kids with me because she hated me and felt so much anger and resentment towards me. Hopefully that will now change.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
antlers #2213213 01/16/12 09:44 PM
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Antlers,

I think what Gabby's saying is, you are too wordy and imo, this letter is NOT needed. I got the same sense from your post that she did. A lot of the "I only want what's best for them" and "we need to co-parent"

sounds close to implicitly suggesting that SHE does not want what's best for them

(hence the comment "they have not been co-parented for some time now" as if SHE isn't doing her job. Where were you? And the OM is not relevant, at all....and it's telling you'd mention him.)

For all the talk of it, I am Not sure you have let go. I think it's at least partly a tactic to see if letting her go, gets her back. Ironic but that's how it's hitting me atm.

Work on letting go of what YOUR part in this was, learning from it and changing.

How are YOU a different man today than before?? Have you replaced your anger only with morose sorrow?


that's Not the only option.

At some point you must let go of the sadness...and create a new, fulfilling life for yourself.

MAYBE

you should Stop all the "co-parenting" talk, and just father your kids.

Otherwise it sounds like an excuse for contact, and I think what Mach said alludes to that.

You really are a smart man. But you've been stuck and sad too long. So all the talk about how "new" this is to you rings a LITTLE hollow.

Get with the program and move forward. You've been in neutral or reverse for too long. You can do this.

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
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H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
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25yearsmlc #2213242 01/16/12 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I think what Gabby's saying is, you are too wordy and imo, this letter is NOT needed. It certainly wasn't my idea. I was talking to my brother the other night and I basically told him about hanging on for so long and then finally, after 3 long years, committing to letting go. I also told him how good it made me feel to forgive her...to be able to do that. I then explained that I truly wanted my kids to be OK and that they neede both of us, even though we were divorced. And I told him I was through pursuing her, and not only was I committed to moving on without her, but that I actually wanted her to be happy, healthy, and have love in her life. Since he'd talked with her about the problems our kids were having, and she made it clear to him that she still harbored resentment toward me...he thought that it's help the situation out if she knew how I now felt...what I'd explained to him. He suggested that information be conveyed to her. She also suggested that my brother mediate for us. I got the same sense from your post that she did. A lot of the "I only want what's best for them" and "we need to co-parent"

sounds close to implicitly suggesting that SHE does not want what's best for them

(hence the comment "they have not been co-parented for some time now" as if SHE isn't doing her job. Where were you? And the OM is not relevant, at all....and it's telling you'd mention him.) I mentioned the OM to my brother because she had told my brother that we'd been communicating good for a good while and then it stopped, and she gave him a false reason for it stopping. She didn't mention the OM as being the reason. She admitted to him that our kids were affected because of the way things had been and because of the divorce. I've been present, as had she...but because there was so much animosity...the kids continued to struggle.

For all the talk of it, I am Not sure you have let go. I have, but it doesn't happen immediately. I think it's a process. I am in that process. The decision to do it was certain. I am letting go. I think it's at least partly a tactic to see if letting her go, gets her back. Ironic but that's how it's hitting me atm. Again, it wasn't my idea at all to communicate anything to her. I'm not letting go and moving on in order to do anything, except to be try and be happy and enjoy life after many years of unhappiness. I realize that I must do this. I have no other motivation. Honest.

Work on letting go of what YOUR part in this was, learning from it and changing.
I have been, and still am, doing that. I have already truly forgiven myself for my wrongdoings...I still have a conscience though and I still feel bad about it. I have learned from it. Much. I will do better if I ever get another chance at a committed relationship. I have made many changes. My brother, who I've been estranged from for over a decade until the last couple of months, knew what a prick I was. And he's been 'impressed' (for lack of a better word) with the man he knows now.
How are YOU a different man today than before?? Have you replaced your anger only with morose sorrow?
I am able to have compassion...for myself and others. I didn't before. Anger does not control me anymore. It once did. I realize that love from others shouldn't be taken for granted. It should be nourished, daily, constantly...and seen for the blessing it truly is. I'm more patient, kind, understanding. And I want to do better. My anger has been replaced with compassion more than anything else. I am sad at the losses that I've experienced.

that's Not the only option. Thank God. I realize that.

At some point you must let go of the sadness...and create a new, fulfilling life for yourself. I know that. I'm working on it. I really am. And for the first time in years...I have hope that I can be happy and fulfilled in the future.

MAYBE

you should Stop all the "co-parenting" talk, and just father your kids. Our kids are messed up because of all of this bad that's happened. Something different has to be done. I've discussed the problems my kids are having on this board.

Otherwise it sounds like an excuse for contact, and I think what Mach said alludes to that. Again, contact was not my idea. He (my brother) thought what I had told him would help if she also knew that. That's all. He has seen firsthand how screwed up my kids are.

You really are a smart man. But you've been stuck and sad too long. So all the talk about how "new" this is to you rings a LITTLE hollow. Thanks. There are those who would disagree with you. Agreed, I have been stuck and sad for too long. I am trying the best I can to do something about that. I do believe that I've made progress too. It is 'new' for me to be letting go, and moving forward! I'm a novice at it. But the best way to learn how to do something is to do it. And that's what I'm outting forth effort to do.

You can do this. I am confident that I can too! Thanks.

((( )))


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
25yearsmlc #2214281 01/20/12 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

1. Work on letting go of what YOUR part in this was, learning from it and changing.

2. At some point you must let go of the sadness...and create a new, fulfilling life for yourself.

3. Get with the program and move forward. You've been in neutral or reverse for too long. You can do this.

1. I am working on it. My brother and her have been doing some communication regarding the kids, in particular my son (because he's so volatile), and she's mentioned her resentment toward me in every communication they've had so far. Still! I'm doing all I can to let go of my part in this. I still need help and don't know what else to do but continue on...and continue to pray for help. I have learned from it, tons actually, and continue to do so. I've changed a lot, for the better. Everyone sees it, but there are some who use my past against me and hold it over my head whenever it's beneficial to them to do so.

2. I've let go of a lot of it. I know I still have work to do. I'm determined to do it. But it seems like those curve balls and punches to the stomach continue to come. And my past is used against me at every opportunity. It makes it hard to let go of it under those circumstances...it's like (the opinion is) I should have to pay for my sins for the rest of my life, and I deserve no happiness because of my actions in the past. I'm constantly reminded of it. I talked to the realtors last night and am going to get my house ready to sell. I'm stoked about it. Now's a good time for me to take a step up snd get a nicer home. I no longer want to be in this house (it's the one that WE lived in....she even picked it out). I think this change will be good for me.

3. I have been in neutral, or sometimes reverse, for a long damn time. It seems there are those who want to keep me there, and I must be resolute and stronger mentally to overcome that. I want to be able to completely let go of everything I have no control over, such as opinions and resentments and actions of others, and exercise the 'only' control that I do have...my reactions. I have COMPLETE control over those...and I want to react/respond well. I CAN do this...God willing. Just gotta respond well to the 'bad' that is still there.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
antlers #2215628 01/25/12 01:30 PM
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I need some advice.

My 14 year old son......he got mad at me and went to his Mom's about a week and a half ago. If he didn't get his way, he'd say "I'll just go to mom's", or if I told him 'no' he'd say "I'll just go to mom's", or if he was questioned or grounded he'd say "I'll just go to mom's"...so he did. He's only done this one other time, when he got grounded. And she let him do immediately the very thing that I grounded him from. It prevents him from learning that there are consequences to his behavior. It only teaches him to be manipulative.
He has lived with me exclusively for 2 and 1/2 years. He has been torn up bad, emotionally, since the separation. My life has revolved around him since then. I've been loving and compassionate towards him throughout. He's struggled, and still is. His counselor tells me she's never dealt with a child this hard. He vents his anger toward me, at the drop of a hat, over the smallest thing.
I've had to walk on eggshells myself with him. He's capable of incredible meanness toward me. It's heartbreaking. We had a great Christmas. But afterwards, he started drawing his mother like a gun. Using her as a weapon against me. I would just respond with "OK son".
Anyway, he's been there for nearly 2 weeks. I haven't heard from him. Yesterday I sent him a text that said simply "thinking about you. Love you." That's been the extent of communication between us. Last time he left, I asked him to come home after he'd been gone for 3 days. He saw it as a weakness and told others that I begged him to come home. He made some derogatory comments before he left this time about me begging him to come home. I haven't and don't intend to.
I'd like him to come home. But only if he treats me with the same love and respect that I show him.
This has been very disheartening, in the midst of the things I've been doing, and putting forth so much efforts to create moments of love with him.
And I'm also concerned that she'll take advantage of the situation legally.

I'd appreciate any feedback.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
antlers #2215645 01/25/12 02:17 PM
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Antlers:

This one is really hard. I totally get it. I think you have to give him some space. He really needs to be able to choose. I feel for him, truly. It is difficult enough growing up these days without having your Mom walk out, your parents fighting and your sisters living elsewhere. No doubt he is torn.

My daughter was 12 when her dad walked. My L and C both told me she was old enough to choose who to live with. She would never have gone with her dad - she has never accepted his OW and won't have her in her life - so that was not the problem. The problem was that she was devastated - just as your son is - and took out all her frustration on me. It was extremely difficult to live with her and it never really got easier.

Daughter had to get her own apt last Spring when I moved away. Our R has never been better as we are now apart. But it took years of strain, understanding, frustration and LOVE.

Your son probably does not know how to handle the situation any differently. Give him some time. I'm sure you can see how that is working with your daughters. Time and space and unconditional love has helped create a new R with them.

Don't worry about the courts. It is what is best for your son that counts. If you fought to have him stay with you against his will - how would that end up in 5 years? And trust me - those 5 years will go by fast.

The part that worries me here is that wife will side with him against you. I think you really need to try to communicate to her from a co-parenting standpoint. And I DO understand how hard that is because my ex was unreasonable and irrational about EVERYTHING to do with our daughter after he left. Luckily - I had sole custody - but still - she is OUR daughter.

So - my best advice is to NOT guilt him into coming home just yet or ask for some time with him. He obviously needs some space for a bit. Just letting him know you're there and the door is open is enough in my opinion.

Barb

antlers #2215667 01/25/12 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: antlers

My 14 year old son......he got mad at me and went to his Mom's about a week and a half ago. If he didn't get his way, he'd say "I'll just go to mom's", or if I told him 'no' he'd say "I'll just go to mom's", or if he was questioned or grounded he'd say "I'll just go to mom's"...so he did. He's only done this one other time, when he got grounded. And she let him do immediately the very thing that I grounded him from. It prevents him from learning that there are consequences to his behavior. It only teaches him to be manipulative.


Part of this is his age, part of it is because that is what he has seen from his Mother.

I try to address the things that aren't "learned" behavior. Those are the things that are disrespectful towards you or any other person that shows authority.

The things that are normal teenager behavior? well they are normal for a reason.

That is a tough spot buddy. I don't envy you at all. Although I do understand what you are dealing with.

I would stay consistent , and whenever he chooses to come back, hold him to your rules still. Things aren't always going to be rosey there. And he will want to come back at some point. When he does, then I would have a talk with him about that. That in the future, running from one parent to the other if he gets upset, will not be allowed. And he will have the very real choice he has to make.

Explain about the manipulation, and that you will not deal with his disrespect in your home.

That is part of the parallel parenting thing I was talking about the other day. That we expect the same standards to be held in both homes for our kids. And that most of the time, in reality, that there ends up being two sets of standards. One for each home.

We fully expect that the best interest of the kids will be held in each home. The difference is, that what our version of whats best is, and our whacked out spouse's version of whats best is, usually ends up being at the opposite end of the spectrum from each other.

That is also the part that angers us so much. That we fully expect the other parent to enforce our rules , the same as we try to enforce theirs.

A couple years ago, I grounded my daughter from her cell phone for a week. It was on a Thursday night, and she was going back with her Mother for the next 7 days. She THOUGHT that she was free and clear , because the next week, she was going to be with her Mom.....

Imagine her surprise, when I picked her up the following Friday afternoon, and my first words were. " Hi baby, I love you, and I need your phone, this is day one "

That set the tone for parallel parenting for us....

Don't walk on eggshells with him. He will sense that in you. And try to take advantage of that. Being a teenager, that is his job.


You are the parent....nuff said






Quote:

He vents his anger toward me, at the drop of a hat, over the smallest thing.
I've had to walk on eggshells myself with him. He's capable of incredible meanness toward me. It's heartbreaking. We had a great Christmas. But afterwards, he started drawing his mother like a gun.



THIS.....is the hardest thing to understand. I struggled with this one too.

From what I have been through...

You are the "safe" parent. You are the one that he knows will be there for him. You always have, and he knows you always will be. He may feel safe venting that anger toward you, because he knows-without a shadow of a doubt- that you will be there. No matter how much anger he shows you.

What he doesn't know, is that his Mother will always be there. And he may fear that if he shows the anger he has toward her to her, that she will walk away from him, the same way she did you.

He doesn't feel "safe" in that relationship, and needs to protect that, by acting out in a way that will draw him closer to her. That is the bond that they form, or try to form.

She is more of a friend than a Mother right now. In time, he will see this too.

I had to go through this part very slow and consistently with my daughter. She needed to learn what was true on her own. She needed to see what was real, and what wasn't, on her own.

I didn't force anything on her except that I loved her , and I was there for her.

The only thing I would suggest is, that you hold him to whatever agreement that you have regarding custody. That he WILL spend time with you. I don't know if that is possible for you.

I thought many times about sending my Daughter to my ex, and letting her go. I felt that if I let her do that, that my ex won. And I was not willing to let her become the kind of person that would just walk away from her issues. And it has been a rough road. I held my daughter to a higher standard in my home, regardless of what standard that she had with my ex. She was free to express herself, but only if she could contain that to being respectful.

She had chores and responsibilities, she earns an allowance ONLY if she adheres to her chore schedule. I always thought that kids tend to gravitate towards discipline and rules, no matter what they think they want.

What we have now, is a really good relationship. In time, she did see things for her own, and she knows the difference between my relationship with her, and her relationship with her Mother.

When she needs guidance, she always seems to come to me first now. She still has things that she will only have with her Mother, and I accept that, hell, I WANT that for her.

I think the hard times, are what make the good times even better though...

I hope this helps you some. I know it's hard stuff ..

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