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I put Five Love Languages in my Amazon shopping cart. I'm concerned this book might not be really helpful in a relationship where we're not able to express love most of the time. But I've heard it suggested so often, that I'll happily give it a go.

Co-dependent no more... I don't know how well this applies to me. I have a daughter that struggles with self harm and other self-destructive behaviors, so I have a taste of that. I think that my wife is the one who identifies as co-dependent. I struggle with depression and a handful of other issues - bipolar disorder, ADHD (maybe), inappropriate boundaries, etc.

My wife has taken the advice of people escaping relationships with narcissist types and said things (to herself, as I were not there) like "I don't have to engage." when we were having arguments early on. She was making everyone in her life miserable, and trying to talk her out of it wasn't working real well. I was in cry, beg, plead mode and it wasn't pretty.

I'd consider giving her codependent no more to read, but I'd really rather have her in a mode of thinking of ways to improve our relationship, not escape it.

I heard an interesting author on Science Friday last friday. Mark Williams wrote Mindfulness: An Eight-Week Plan for Finding Peace in a Frantic World. According to the author and his studies, doing the meditative exercises described in the book daily is as effective as medication in preventing recurring depression. That's something we can both use.

[edited by dbmod, outside links not allowed]

This last week with W has been as hot and cold as ever. I told W one morning that I asked my IC for a reference for an IC for my W. I didn't tell her that D15 said that W told her that she thinks she's depressed. I've known W is depressed for a long time. That wasn't news. Selfishly, and compassionately, I'd like for W to have a therapist that doesn't take an attitude like, "H is bad for you, D will make your life better."

Anyway, W's eyes went black (they do that when she's angry for some reason) and she started ranting about how I was trying to prove that she was the crazy one so I could take the kids from her. "Just leave me alone."

Later that, she was warm and pleasant.

One of our challenges right now is that we have to dig our way out of around $20K in debt incurred during the last 6 months when I was unable to work at full speed due to depression. It will take me most of this year to undo the damage.

Last edited by dbmod; 01/31/12 12:30 AM.

- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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Originally Posted By: labug
Originally Posted By: AlwaysTrying
I think not being able to ask for what you need is a big problem. For my wife, it comes down to not believing you'll get what you need. She may not want me to do something with S that I did with D, but since I let her down before, won't consider that I will heed her wishes. So she won't ask, but instead boil over with anger until she's twitching with rage and has a tantrum - and at that moment, during the tantrum, I finally figure out what the anger is over.

It's going to take time + consistent change for her to believe you won't let her down. What kind of things did you let her down on?


Bipolar disorder. Neither of us understood that I had this before we got married.
I have to make myself a todo list to remember to do all the things that need to be done. When I'm down, I can abandon this list for months at a time. I might not pay the taxes. I might not file insurance paperwork and get stuck with a $500 medical bill.

Where I let her down was in not getting the help I needed in the way she wanted me to. I didn't want to medicate my problem away and it took me several years to accept that I'd have to. Because I wasn't doing it the way she wanted me to, I was secretive about it.

I was also secretive about my finances because I didn't want her to know when I was making money and when I wasn't.

There were times when I disagreed with her on a parenting decision with my D15 (her step-daughter), and overruled her. I thought we agreed at some point that 4 parents were too many for one kid, but W is quite bitter over it.

Damn, when I put it that way, I don't want to be married to me, either.

Originally Posted By: labug

Originally Posted By: AT
I wish I could get my W to uncork all the pain and let it out.

That's hard because it's really scary. Probably fear, fear that you won't understand, fear that you will reject her or fear that she's unlovable. Another great book, How to Change Your Marriage Without Talking About It.

I just ordered the book on Amazon. I still wish I could get her to let that stuff out. I mean... I wish I could convince her that she'd feel better afterward.

She has complained for a long time that I don't care about how she feels. I always thought that was an unfair thing to say. She is a difficult person to disagree with - always intense and boiling with anger at those that disagree with her. It became a lot easier to be passive-agressive.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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I feel exhausted. I just want to go on autopilot.

I need a source of strength. I wish I had a cheerleader.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Hey AT, I just caught up on your thread. I wish I had a cheerleader, too.

I'm going to look into the mindfulness book. I was meditating pretty consistently and then for some reason stopped around the holidays. My depression is much improved, in fact I would go so far as to say I'm not depressed but I am very sad sometimes. In a lot of ways I'm better than I've ever been but it's always good to have lots of tools in the toolbox.

Originally Posted By: AlwaysTrying
I'd consider giving her codependent no more to read, but I'd really rather have her in a mode of thinking of ways to improve our relationship, not escape it.

I don't understand this sentence. Could you explain a bit more?

Quote:
Where I let her down was in not getting the help I needed in the way she wanted me to. I didn't want to medicate my problem away and it took me several years to accept that I'd have to. Because I wasn't doing it the way she wanted me to, I was secretive about it.
I sometimes think I should have gone on antidepressants 2 years ago, but I didn't. I was making the best decisions I could at the time. I can't go back and change that, I have to move forward.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Originally Posted By: labug
Hey AT, I just caught up on your thread. I wish I had a cheerleader, too.


I believe in you, labug. You're a great person.

Originally Posted By: labug
I'm going to look into the mindfulness book. I was meditating pretty consistently and then for some reason stopped around the holidays. My depression is much improved, in fact I would go so far as to say I'm not depressed but I am very sad sometimes. In a lot of ways I'm better than I've ever been but it's always good to have lots of tools in the toolbox.


When it comes to depression, it's best to have every possible defense. I could be doing better there. I know that going to bed early is a lot better for me than getting sleep deprived, but when I come home to my empty room with its empty bed and I start to miss my kids, and my wife, and... all my *stuff*, I have trouble getting to sleep.

Originally Posted By: labug

Originally Posted By: AlwaysTrying
I'd consider giving her codependent no more to read, but I'd really rather have her in a mode of thinking of ways to improve our relationship, not escape it.

I don't understand this sentence. Could you explain a bit more?

OK, I've never read the book. I just worry that it is more about leaving negative relationships behind more than building a better one. Maybe that is an unfounded fear.

Originally Posted By: labug
I sometimes think I should have gone on antidepressants 2 years ago, but I didn't. I was making the best decisions I could at the time. I can't go back and change that, I have to move forward.

So, I wouldn't do it the way I had done it before... We can't change that. But how do we prove that we'll make better decisions in the future?


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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I really fell off the wagon this weekend. I felt so insecure yesterday. I felt like this process was going to take forever.

W and I have been planning on signing this stipulation that I'll stay out of house for 3 months and she'll hold off on the divorce during that time. Our arrangement has been that I come over on Tuesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays to be with the kids. Last week, she specifically added wording to the still-unsigned agreement (has been taking weeks going back and forth between our lawyers and it's only a one-page document) - She added wording that said that could only come after work when I have the kids, not before.

I like having some time to be in the house by myself to handle household stuff, or just to breath in a warm, familiar place. She also added wording that I have to leave by 9 on those nights.

I took it as an attack and argued against it. So, Saturday morning, she said "Fine, whatever." and agreed to the changes. We had a separate exchange where I told her I had gotten a referral for an IC for her. She's been depressed and she confessed it to D15. She lashed out at me and accused me of conspiring with my lawyer to prove that W is the crazy one so I can take the kids away from her.

That got me to thinking about how she must be conspiring with her lawyer and how the new wording must be part of that. What is her angle? What am I losing?


I have a hard time giving her the "space" she needs. There is a part of my mind that can't let of of the idea that what she is asking for is wrong and makes her a terrible person. We're married! We have a responsibility to the kids to work things out. I'm sorry for my mistakes, but I don't believe I've earned this. Why should I have to go days at a time between seeing my kids? I've never been a part time father.

I feel like a fool for letting her walk all over me and kick me out of my house because she is not happy.

I just lost my patience. I talked too much. I emailed her at 2:30 in the morning. I texted her today.

Well, I have books coming in the mail. Maybe next time I can read a book instead.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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Quote:
I believe in you, labug. You're a great person.


Yay Team! Thanks, AT.

All I'm going to say about your latest post is DETACH, DETACH, DETACH. Live your life, be with your kids when you can but let her go.

The sooner, the better.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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Originally Posted By: labug
Quote:
I believe in you, labug. You're a great person.


Yay Team! Thanks, AT.

All I'm going to say about your latest post is DETACH, DETACH, DETACH. Live your life, be with your kids when you can but let her go.

The sooner, the better.


I'm centering back on this now. I haven't done well in the last 24 hours and I hope it hasn't done too much damage.

I don't have trouble detaching from her. Well, not most of the time. But sometimes I get a little crazy about the kids.

I start thinking, "Stop being so selfish and destroying our family!" I don't need her back, but my kids do.

And I get frustrated with what I see as cake eating. I let her have the house and primary with the kids because she can't figure out how to heal when I'm in the house. She's living a fantasy life of happy separation. She still doesn't know what it's like to have the kids sleeping on the other side of town.


I just read tenbusrider's thread. My wife lost her gallblader after our D3, and she's had these wild irrational mood swings that everyone but her can see for years. It's very important to her that she not be perceived as the crazy one, but I'm pretty sure the reason she's so sensitive about it is that she knows I'm not making it up. It was so hard to talk to her about it before she went WAW.

I plan on asking her if she's had her thyroid checked out.

I feel like I don't sound like a DBer today. I'm doing it wrong. I guess I need to meditate on it.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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A friend of mine said the thyroid thing is grasping at straws. Probably right. She said she was tested and came out on the low side of normal.

It would have been nice to have an explanation for her stormy moods. When I married her, I thought she was the crazy one. I wish she could accept that we're both the crazy one now. :-/

I feel like positive strides W and I have made in the last month have been overshadowed by new frictions over taxes, debts, and our separation agreement.

I asked my wife a few times to make an agreement with me that I would move out of the house for a time and she would put the marriage on hold, and she wouldn't have it. Eventually, I just made my own "agreement" with my terms on it, left the house, and asked her if she wanted to continue with it. That worked.

That was probably 6 weeks ago. We hadn't signed the agreement because it got shuttled back and forth between lawyers and there was some tweaking of it by both of us.

Today was the last day this document could be signed in order to avoid a court date tomorrow, and I finally got it done. The agreement says I have at least 3 months before she can put the divorce back on the court's schedule.

I have to find ways to bring my divorce busting to a new level during that time. My goal is to either
A) have her agree to come to counseling on a regular basis while we continue the arrangement and see if we can sort out our stuff
and/or
B) have me allowed to move back home while without pushing her out the door.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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I feel like what I have going on is that she is willing to wait and see about our relationship as long as I give her space, but she is not able to acknowledge this attitude to me, or possibly even to herself.

I have to read into the things she *doesn't* do in order to get this picture. Not the things she says.

And it seems like she might be receptive to my efforts at times, but she can't let me know about it. She has to be a mystery, and if I happen to get something right, it's a secret.

I'm so tired of this awful communication.


Yesterday, D15 who struggles with depression and anxiety, was pretty much having a breakdown. She sat down with W and I and cried about a lot of things, but one thing she kept coming back to is "what is the point" of even getting up in the morning if things can't work out between people. She saw other marriages failing, but she thought W and I would be together forever because we loved each other so much, despite our flaws. We were committed.

At one point, D15 is desperately fishing for W to say that she will try to save the marriage. I'm struggling to give D15 the picture that W is not reachable right now, and she isn't capable of saying anything positive right now, but she isn't running away either, and we have some time to work this out. But you can't really say that in front of the WAS, so the conversation is tortured.

W comes out and says, "You're right. There may be no point to marriage. I know people stay together in other cultures and at other times. People can't make that promise to each other." She keeps on going like that, and I'm going nuts inside.

My D15 is hurting so bad and W is so damaged by this process that she can't say anything that is not hurtful. I can see the look on her face. W can't look at anyone in the eyes. She looks like a trapped animal.

I can see the pressure on her, and I wish D15 would take it off because, as much as it makes sense that my wife might react compassionately to seeing someone she loves in pain, she just can't. I wanted to ask her to leave. Then D15's biological mom got there and the situation was diffused.

After D15 left with her mom, W ran out of the house after 11:00 PM for a burger from Wendy's. Stress eating.

I'm going to try extra hard to keep distance from W for the next two weeks. On 2/14 I have a session with a therapist that I hope she'll come to if I keep pressure off in between.

I have to find some new 180s and get on them and make sure I'm keeping up the ones I have already started.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
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