Ok just caught up, sorry for not jumping in earlier you are where I was 4-6 months ago. My W too found me unattractive after lusting after women for so long.
I think you need to draw the line on her cheating. Tell her you are glad that she is willing to get help, but unless she is willing to stop this cheating non-sense then she needs to move on.
Right now like you said she is confused, she wants to explore her sexuality, she wants to feel excitement.
Unfortunately she has a lot of built up resentment against you, she probably has very little respect for you, and doesn't value you. It [censored] I know personally.
Right now every one of those men and women are more valueble to her than you.
You don't have to start with an ultimatum, but I think you should start by being radically honest. Be true to your feelings and let her now what you like, what you can tolerate and what you won't. Value yourself and your feelings first.
Also keep in mind that your W is very confused right now. She has no idea why everyone else is so darn attractive but you're not. All I can say is that it's most likely not you, but some issue she is struggling with.
You suspect that her affair opened up something in her, and you're probably right. Sex with someone you love requires a whole lot of vulnerability. Sex with a stranger, who will probably remain a stranger can be easier for someone dealing with issues since they don't have to fully reveal themselves. Any vulnerability accidentally revealed, can be ignored since it is not a real relationship.
That being said if you intend on making this work, you need to find what her love languages are and provide love. If she feels loved and cherished like OW made her feel, she'll be less likely to risk losing you on a silly online flirting session.
We are closer than we have ever been, there is definitely more mutual respect, and we lovingly cuddle every night.
Of course not everything is perfect. Sex while increasingly frequent is still not to the way it used to be years ago.
I imagine your W may be going through something similar, but I can tell mine wonders why the crazy desire is not there.
I'm sure orientation issues are also wreaking havoc, I bet she does love you, but can't understand why everybody else is so much more interesting.
I think you'll find that as your marriage stabilizes you will find yourself in a sex starved marriage.
The issue I think is intimacy.
In order to be intimate it requires a great deal of trust and self awareness.
I believe it was Schnarch who termed the 6 levels of sex.
Level 1 is sex abuse, one uses the other. One is hurt, and the other does not gain any emotional happiness.
Level 2 is no strings attached sex. Both partners enjoy the physical aspect but get nothing out of it emotionally. Most one night stands fall here. It can be exciting and fun, but in the long run leaves you feeling empty.
I think your wife may be here since this is the stage that requires the least vulnerability.
Feelings of love and caring are absent. Iif a marriage only gets level 2 sex, it will eventually feel monotonous and mechanical. A possible explanation why she doesn't find you attractive. In other words it gets old.
Novelty is needed in order to keep the flames going if you are stuck at this level. "Novelty" often translates into other people.
Ok so where does this leave me? We're trying to move past level 2.
All I can say for now is that it's a lot of hard work.
Thank you for your response. It gives me hope. We spoke about it last night and we are both willing to give 100% to make it work. She agreed to stop the affair stuff. I'm hesitant to believe her, but trust has been broken and I have decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. Rebuilding trust has to start somewhere.
Our sex life never has really got off the ground. Due to religious commitments we dated four years and did not have sex until we were married....a week after we were married to be more precise. She grew up thinking sex is a dirty word and never really got over that...until recently. We've tried things. She has put in a lot of effort, but I don't think she ever thought it was okay to have sex...like it was bad. I've tried to spice things up and she hasn't really been responsive. So, I gave up trying. We never did foreplay...never. Sexually, I have been miserable.
A lady named Alisa Bowman wrote a book called, "Project Happily Ever After". She has a website with the same name. Basically, she was so miserable that she literally hoped her husband would die. Someone wrote in and asked her about what she should do because she doesn't want to touch her husband, is not attracted and she didn't feel connected. But, she is extremely attracted to someone else. Her husband is a good man, which are hard to find. What can she do.
Mrs. Bowman replied and said, "i would have rather had all of my toenails extracted than to have sex with my Husband. Now I look forward to it." She then pointed out that no relationship is perfect. One man can be a great lover, but not a great conversationalist. Another may be a great provider, but a terrible lover. Few if any people have every single quality we desire in a mate. She needs to allow herself to accept this fact. When she does she'll have a much easier time seeing shortcoming in marriage as problems that can be solved over time. Mrs. Bowman than said, "Rather than seeing your lack of attraction to your husband as a fatal flaw -one that can only be solved by either replacing him or cheating on him- you'll look into ways to build a healthy attraction."
She recommended that the lady with the question do a few things.
1. Tell her husband that her desire has waned over the years. She should be honest and tell her husband about her weakness for other men. Ask him to fall back in love with her.
2.Start having sex on a regular basis, even if she doesn't want to do it. Sex helps build a connection that will turn into a healthy attraction over time.
3. Deal with any turn offs...if he has poor hygiene, or whatever, tell him.
4. Teach him how to romance her
5. Teach him how to please to please her in bed.
6. Touch often...really simple things keep a marriage going...hugging before going leaving the house and coming home, sit closely on the couch, hold hands, etc.
7. Be transparent...allow him to know the real her and vice versa. The more you get to know each other on a deeper level, the more attraction will grow.
8. Put on blinders...It's normal to feel attracted to other people, but she's married. She can look, but she can't touch. She needs to practice self-control and learn how to release her attachment to wanting it all. Learn how to be happy with the wonderful man you already have.
Mrs. Bowman never mentions anything about her husband and her having marital problems, but I imagine they had to if she was wanting him to die and not wanting to even touch him. I purchased her book, so I will be able to read more about their relationship later.
My question is if you think I should show my wife this site? I'm a bit leery about having sex myself...I don't know if all I'll be able to think about is the other guy. Maybe not. So, what do you think? As I'm sure you feel, I would like to have sex with her, but.... Do you think something like this would chase my wife away? I know she's willing to do anything to make this work...well, I'm trying to believe that anyway...she says she is. I don't want her to think that I'm showing it to her just to get laid. If I showed her this, I think it would be best to tell her about my apprehension of physical contact.
Overall, what are your opinions on this?
BTW, her orientation is straightened out. She likes men and it was a one time thing with the OW.
I've just read through your thread. I'm sorry you find yourself going through this difficult situation. You've been given some good advice on your thread, although it's very subtle.
I'm going to be very blunt, because these issues are rarely discussed, but they are very important in marriages.
You've mentioned that you
[/list] were both sexually inexperienced when you were married dated for a long time before becoming intimate rarely enjoyed foreplay with each other she "did a lot of work" to get over the sexual issues (although if you guys never engaged in foreplay with each other, I'm wondering what exactly she was able to do) she had a lesbian affair; and then she had a male lover
Your wife's sexuality has been terribly neglected and her background has given her mixed messages about the value of it. The authentic woman who is your wife, the spirit of the woman, knows that there is a big part of life she's missing out on here and she's going to keep looking until it is fulfilled. Because DAvid, sex, good sex, sex beyond Schnarch's level 2, is the only glue that can keep a couple in love and happy for their entire adult lives.
David - this is not your wife's problem. This is your problem. You need to improve your sexual skills and confidence.
If you are reading No more Mr Nice guy you'll be starting to understand how women need men who are strong and who are prepared to lead. That is particularly true in bed. In my experience, a woman becomes an open and willing sexual partner, when her husband/lover lovingly but firmly encourages her to accept the gift of pleasure that he can give her. And then he must get serious about the giving of pleasure part. He needs to show her how desirable she is, how horney she makes him, how much he wants to give her pleasure. He has to lead an activity in their marriage which takes time and communication and laughter and a commitment to love and pleasure.
I recognise this issue because I've lived it. I married a man 16 years older than me when I was 24. I wasn't very experienced and he'd been married since before the full educative effects of the 70s sexual revolution had a chance to permeate his cohort ... so we had regular sex - at least once or twice a week after the first 5 years or so right up until we separated ... and we both always orgasmed ... but I can honestly say that in the entire 12 years we were together we never had a sex session that went longer than 5 minutes. It was quick, it was cursory, it was always in the morning ... and it was an add-on to our relationship - certainly not the glue that kept us a unique and committed couple.
That wasn't the reason I left, but I now understand I fell out of love with him because we had spent our entire relationship at that Schnarch Level 2. It was boring and I might as well have been bopping the milk-man.
Since I've been divorced, I've had relationships with men who know what they are doing in bed. Oh la la!!! Those experiences have taught me about my sexuality and my femininity. They have empowered me to be a sincere and genuine intimate partner ... they've helped me to understand the power of two compatible people, living their lives as an economic and social team, who also have THAT magic ... goodness me ... no wonder some married couples look so happy. They are living the dream!!!!
David get yourself some liturature on becoming a better lover. Learn the skills to pleasure your wife and then work on your confidence to be able to do it in a sensual and loving way (I know at first it's going to seem awkward). Make her pleasure and showing her how much you love her your priority .....
She might be happy to put-up-with-it for the time being, but her sexual maturity is a time-bomb that's not going to go away unless it's satisfied.
Blessings. V
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
That's where I'm confused. There so many things I want to do for her: like the dirty talk she has with the other men...how would she react to that? Is it weird if I start doing it? If she's not attracted to me would this turn her off more?
I've wanted nothing more than to please her. I've been doing research for years on how to please her. I've watched numerous videos on cunnilingus, foreplay, positions. Not to mention the books I've read on the same subjects. She never has allowed me to do these things for or to her. I want passion, foreplay, spontaneity, kissing, touching, sharing moments where nothing else matters but her and I sharing ourselves fully with each other. Where two seem to be one. Those love novels women read....that is what I want. I think foreplay involves more than touching. I want it to start early in the morning and build throughout th day until she can't wait to get home. I want her to know that she is the most wonderful, beautiful, special woman in the world to me. I want to hold her in my arms after and cuddle. I want it to be special and not just a thing to get me off. I would rather do it less and do it right when we do. I feel like I've tried...really tried. I've tried spicing things up with games, movies, toys, costumes, handcuffs, blindfolds, you name it.
I don't mean to sound graphic, but I have wanted this since day one. I finally just gave up. Admittedly, I've had my problems. I certain my need to work on confidence. I could lose weight (84 pounds so far). I'm far from perfect.
So what do you think? Should I start trying to seduce her, or give her space? She seems to like dirty talk...at least with the other guys...do I start that? What about sending her pictures? Should I do what I want as far as seducing her from the moment she wakes up? I want to tell her who gorgeous she is...not just physically, but all the internal stuff too....her personality, talents...the little things that no one else sees that mean so much to me.
If anyone has any suggested reading materials or advice on being a better lover...please let me know. Whatever it is I'm doing wrong, I want to fix it. I working on the confidence stuff.
Those experiences have taught me about my sexuality and my femininity. They have empowered me to be a sincere and genuine intimate partner ... they've helped me to understand the power of two compatible people, living their lives as an economic and social team, who also have THAT magic ... goodness me ... no wonder some married couples look so happy. They are living the dream!!!!