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Accuray,

Can I just say that your posts here are helping me a great deal too.
You have tremendous insight and your advice is something I usually end up copying to file for re-reading over and again.

So, thanks for your contributions; you are helping so many of us.

Luv hurts,

I feel for you on this roller coaster. We all get the "this doesn't mean we're back together" line, but as Accuray says, I think we can all recognise, too, that there is a big dollop of self-convincing going on.
Such statements can be read as a sign that things are going better, but that we need to be patient and not rush it by being too OTT in our response to small steps forward.
Best,
NLW

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Maybe what I should have said is that I have already forgiven my W for what she has done, but we would never be able to rebuild our M unless she was willing to work on it too and meet some demands that I would have.

While I still struggle with the thoughts in my head about my W and OM, they have become less frequent, but not less painful.

Before she left, my W was the kindest, most loving person I have ever known. Only after she left did she become this seemingly hateful person who shows me little positive emotion.

She is acting like a she cares only for herself, going out whenever she wants, spending whatever she wants, and not seeming to care what others think.

I know what she spent during our first month apart, but I would hate to see how much she has spent since. I know that she has bought some things for the kids, which I understand and I can tell that she has bought herself a lot of new clothes. My W has never been real good with money by herself--I'm the only reason we even have a savings. I would hate to see how far in debt she really is.


Me36, W38
S12, S3
T20, M4
Bomb dropped 8/18/11
Moved out 8/18/11
Filed for D 10/20/11
OM Confirmed 11/5/11
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Luvhurts,
This sounds SO familiar to me.

"Before she left, my W was the kindest, most loving person I have ever known. Only after she left did she become this seemingly hateful person who shows me little positive emotion. "

Ditto for my H. This is the part I find so hard to deal with.

"My W has never been real good with money by herself--I'm the only reason we even have a savings. I would hate to see how far in debt she really is."

Ditto again, only our finances are still entwined so the debt is shared.
Makes trying to DB so hard when debt issues surface over and over again.

I have found my H doesn't respond well when I pull back. He seems much better in his interactions with me when I am friendly, attentive, happy and 'up'. When I go quiet-ish and minimise my interactions with him, he seems to go into a retaliatory spiral.
Just wondering if you have found anything similar with your W?

Best, NLW

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Our money was intertwined, but then I transferred everything to my name once she stopped putting money into our joint account. The money is still there (well, most of it) and it has already been reported to the L, I just didn't want my W to go on a spending spree.

As far as how my W acts when I pull away, it's really a mixed bag. Some things she reacts better to when I pull away, somethings she reacts better if I try to put on a happy face. Regardless, it is always minimal interaction and rarely do we actually speak. Almost all interaction is about the kids and most communication is via texting or email.

That's why dinner the other night was a bit of a shock since it required interaction and communication not to mention the two of us actually being somewhere at the same time. Of course I still cannot explain the hug, the meaning behind it, or whether it will happen again.

I don't think that I have been this confused since shorty after my W left. Increase in stress, anxiety, and confusion--yep, sounds about right.


Me36, W38
S12, S3
T20, M4
Bomb dropped 8/18/11
Moved out 8/18/11
Filed for D 10/20/11
OM Confirmed 11/5/11
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,502
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It's a good sign, but there is no way to tell what it "means" and the danger of over thinking it is that you will attach either too much meaning or too little.

It is progress and progress is good. Pat yourself on the back for how you handled it, no pursuing, no overt sadness. Good job! What you did was hard.

Don't over think, let it go. Find something else to think about. Pick an interesting lighthouse and read about its history. Look for small things that can be digested without a major commitment of energy and distract yourself when you think you are going there.

Patience right now, so hard but the best thing you can do.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Posts: 308
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I want to echo others when I say: Accuray, your posts are always tremendously helpful. They are especially helpful for people going through an A (like Luv and myself), but they're also great for anybody generally dealing with a nutty, spiteful WAS. I've saved so many of your posts, it's unreal!

As for Luv: I hear you, man. My W used to be wonderfully loving, too, but since the A, all that's disappeared. The important thing to realize is that it has way more to do with her than it does you. Think of it this way: what she's doing is so hurtful and unlike herself that she actually has to change into an entirely different person to feel like it's okay!

I would suggest trying to find the documentary about the Stanford Prison Project for perspective. Total proof that people can change entire identities given certain circumstances.

It's very tempting at this point to place all the blame on yourself, but don't make that mistake. Your W is in a place where she would love it if you'd shoulder all of the blame and she didn't have to take any.


Us: mid-20s
T: 5.5 yrs
M: 2 yrs
S + OM: 6/21/11
Legally S'd: 9/9/11

In this life, you have a limited amount of mental currency. You get what you pay for, so spend it wisely.

So it goes. --Kurt Vonnegut
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I'm not willing to call it progress or a good sign as yet. If it happens again, then maybe I'll start to look at it as progress or something positive.

Unfortunately, we have our first court appearance this week and I'm sure that it won't be pleasant. Everyone says that divorce is like war and I'm expecting a battle. So, I doubt any of those positive things or expectations will happen anytime soon.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, but until then, all I can do is wait. I just wish I could stop thinking about it though.


Me36, W38
S12, S3
T20, M4
Bomb dropped 8/18/11
Moved out 8/18/11
Filed for D 10/20/11
OM Confirmed 11/5/11
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 157
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I've been doing a little research the last couple of days and I was looking to see what other people's opinions are.

What I'm looking at, is the differences when the H leaves and the W leaves. It seems to me, when the W leaves, it usually ends up being a more permanent decision than when the H leaves. The H usually ends up being more remorseful and is more likely to return to the marriage as long as too much time hasn't passed. Of course, the phrase "too much time" could be debated.


Me36, W38
S12, S3
T20, M4
Bomb dropped 8/18/11
Moved out 8/18/11
Filed for D 10/20/11
OM Confirmed 11/5/11
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,502
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Danger Will Robinson (hope you're old enough to remember "Lost in Space")

The problem you get with that type of research is the following:

1) They're talking about broad averages -- on average men are taller than women, but there are many instances when women are taller than men. If you take these "averages" and use them to set expectations for your situation you risk creating self-fulfilling prophesies. Nothing is over until you say it is.

2) "Most" people in this situation don't know about DB and don't find their way here. Therefore, they will react in all the ways that don't work and make the situation worse.

That said, I have also read that *on average* women tend to fear being alone more than men, and will therefore wait a long time before pulling the trigger to leave and will pretend everything is OK in the meantime. That robs us of the chance to respond before it's too late. Often then feel that letting us know they're unhappy may lead to us leaving proactively, and they don't want that. Therefore, when they do leave and it seems spur of the moment, it's really not, they probably have months of planning behind them that we were oblivious to. That's why it's not so quickly reversed, they have debated it for months and we are playing catchup.

The same research suggests that men are more opportunistic with regard to pursuing affair partners and will act more "in the moment" without thinking things through, so they may be more likely to "cake eat" or may be easier to return to the relationship.

All this stuff is just broad generalization though, and some of it may go back to the 50's when things were much different in our society.

I know you're desperate to have your expectations set in terms of how long this will last and what your odds are to reconcile. I read another study that said that people are the most unhappy at work when they don't know what's coming next. That's the situation you find yourself in, there is no timeline, no set of next steps that you can rely on, and for men who like to have a plan that will play into a cause and effect relationship, it's terribly frustrating. You want someone to tell you to just do x, y, and z, and the result will be 1, 2, and 3. Unfortunately that roadmap doesn't exist.

As I've said before, DB is the worst thing you can do in this situation except for all the alternatives. The only thing to take comfort in is knowing that you're doing the best thing you can do, that you'll come out of this a better and stronger person, and that you're being the best parent you can be.

I would be very careful with the averages.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 308
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Luv, I remember reading your research, too, and feeling disheartened. In "Not Just Friends," Shirley Glass maintains that when a W leaves, the M will be more likely to crumble and reconciliation will be more unlikely (based on her research).

However, in "After the Affair," Janis Spring notes that when a W has an A, the male LBS is far more likely to find someone else because he's typically more financially solvent and has more options available to him. So it's all in how you look at things.

I think Accuray's right, you're trying to get certainty in a situation filled with uncertainty. Once you learn to let go and allow whatever will be to be, a huge weight will come off of your shoulders. Who ever really knows what happens until it happens?


Us: mid-20s
T: 5.5 yrs
M: 2 yrs
S + OM: 6/21/11
Legally S'd: 9/9/11

In this life, you have a limited amount of mental currency. You get what you pay for, so spend it wisely.

So it goes. --Kurt Vonnegut
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