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You need to help your son develop his own relationship with his mom. Don't allow him to try to make you feel better by criticizing her; kids sometimes do that. Tell him, what would he like to do when he's there - try suggesting it in advance. Suggest an outing, tell her he's getting bored with watching tv, could they cook together or play a card game?

If he thinks she'll yell at him just for asking her to do something, help him find words for that. Maybe suggest he say to her, when you yell at me I feel like I can't talk to you. I don't know if a 12yo can handle that, but he needs to develop his own tools for relating with his mom and not get into the role of bringing back info to you for you to deal with on his behalf.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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That's not to say he shouldn't confide in you, but you have to be careful about the dynamic that develops.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
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I never say anything negative about his mom. Despite everything that is happening, I only have good things to say about my W. I may not always agree with her decisions or the way she handles certain things, but I never criticize her.

When my son makes any kind of negative comment regarding his mom, I always try to correct him. It's fine to have feelings of anger, sadness, etc, but I always reassure him that his mom loves him and cares for him deeply and so does he for her.

The problem that my son has is, whenever he tells his mom something that she may not like, she will snap back at him or infer that he is wrong. A child should never feel like they can't tell their parents what they are feeling and if they feel afraid of doing so, then it's a failing on the parents end, not the child's (and in this case, my wife's).

Now I won't deal with my son's problems with his mom for him. If he comes home and says this or that about his mom, then I simply sit down with him and talk to him about what he is feeling. I try to get him to look at things a little differently or in a way that is easier for him to understand. My thought is, if I can't make it easier on my son, then maybe it will then be easier for my son to talk to his mom.


Me36, W38
S12, S3
T20, M4
Bomb dropped 8/18/11
Moved out 8/18/11
Filed for D 10/20/11
OM Confirmed 11/5/11
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Posts: 157
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Okay, so now another trip on the roller coaster that is my life. I pick up my S3 from daycare and take him home where my W will be picking both my boys up after she gets off work. When she picks up the kids, she asks if I want to go out to dinner with her and the kids. My first instinct was to say "no" because usually anytime my W is nice to me, something bad happens shortly afterwards. For example, the last time we had dinner together was the day she filed for D.

So I agree to go to dinner, but I drive separately. Of course my S12 is happy and excited because it's been a while since his mom and dad have done anything together. Dinner goes okay. I try not to stare at her and I try not to look too depressed or too happy. After dinner, I walk them out to her car, give the kids hugs and kisses, put S3 in his car seat and tell my boys that I love them. I shut the car door and my W is standing there and says "thank you for coming to dinner with us" and then gives me a hug, which I really wasn't expecting.

On my way home, my heart is going 1000 beats a second, I'm confused as all hell, and I'm sitting there trying to make sense of things all the while wondering what the hell is going to happen next--when is the other shoe gonna drop?

So much for getting out tonight as this ordeal has royally screwed me up.


Me36, W38
S12, S3
T20, M4
Bomb dropped 8/18/11
Moved out 8/18/11
Filed for D 10/20/11
OM Confirmed 11/5/11
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Well if you didn't tell her you love her or kick things up a notch then pat yourself on the back, you just made it "safe" to be hugged!

If she left that experience not feeling responsible for your sadness, then you have achieved progress.

The *hard* part is dealing with your own feelings about it. When it was me and my W showed a little affection after being so cold and distant I just wanted everything to be good again *right now*

You are not there yet. You can expect she'll try to be nice to you again, but she will punctuate that with being mean and withdrawn! That's coming too, prepare to not let that bother you either! Provide no commentary on it "you were nice yesterday but today you are mean". Don't say that.

Also, resist all temptation to tell her that you enjoyed the hug. Anything like that is pursuing and begging her to reciprocate the comment. Keep it in.

You have to walk a bed of hot coals when things start to get a little better. Prepare yourself!

One of the first times my W started being nice to me was when we went out to dinner with friends. She held my hand on the way there while the friends drove, couldn't keep her hands off me through dinner, very happy and upbeat.

When we got home, she wouldn't even look at me and slept on the couch. That worked me over but good!

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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LH -

I am really new to all of this stuff, but count your blessings in this situation. The fact that she would have dinner with you and offer a hug is pretty big. I mean, it doesn't sound the "all clear" alarm or anything but that is progress! Feel good about it. Keep doing what you're doing (it appears to be working on SOME level) even though it is hard as h*ll. I am going through the same and haven't seen the positive signs that you have yet - though I think your W has been out of the house longer than mine.

I'm wishing you the best of luck and determination.

Crimson

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@Crimson: She's been out of the house for four months now and I wouldn't call dinner the other night progress. I guess during the dinner, I took my S3 to the restroom and my W told my S12 that "this doesn't mean we're getting back together". Not that I was expecting a dinner to make things all better between us, but why go out of her way to tell our son that? I know my S12 is hopeful and everything, but that's like pouring salt on an open wound.

@Accuray: Yeah, I'm kinda still waiting for the other shoe to drop. If the last four months have taught me anything, it's that nothing good happens without something bad or mean happening shortly after.

One thing I failed to mention about dinner the other night--she was wearing an NFL hoodie with a team logo on it. Now this wouldn't have been an issue when we were still together as she would occasionally were one mine, but my W does not like football and the team logo wasn't of my team, but the one that her "friend" likes. I guess that she also has a matching shirt too. I can't tell you how much that really, really bothers me--it's like she's throwing in my face.


Me36, W38
S12, S3
T20, M4
Bomb dropped 8/18/11
Moved out 8/18/11
Filed for D 10/20/11
OM Confirmed 11/5/11
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Posts: 2,502
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If W came to dinner with me wearing something that OM had given her, I would lose my s***. You have every right to be angry about that, and good for you for not saying anything! You're making progress Luvhurts. I bet 3 weeks ago you wouldn't have imagined that she would be inviting you to dinner. Look at it that way.

Your "mission" right now is to turn the other cheek and be the better man, which it seems you've been doing. Make it safe to be nice to you. Be stoic, be the rock. Continue to be a great dad. You're doing a GREAT job not badmouthing your W with the kids. They need you to be that positive force for them right now.

When W said "this doesn't mean we're getting back together" she probably said it as much for herself as for S. I'm sure she's having doubts as difficult as it is to see.

Look at it from her perspective, she's left a wake of scorched earth and burning buildings. From where she's sitting, the easy path forward is to pretend what she did was righteous so she doesn't have to look at that wake and wade back through it. Easier to close the door than clean up after yourself.

BUT she can't quite close the door -- you've got kids together, you've got years of shared memories. Although she might have been very mad at you and frustrated with you, deep down she knows you know her better than anyone. It's hard for her to believe that she can be forgiven, that she's worthy of being forgiven. She fears that coming back comes with a boatload of guilt and reprisals.

That's what we're talking about when we say "pave the road back". Act as if the mess is already cleaned up. Act as if you've moved on, found some peace, and bear her no ill-will. Act as if that scorched earth has been replanted and the buildings have been rebuilt. This will allow her to see a road back that doesn't look horribly painful.

The brutal thing is that you have to build that path for her by yourself, with no guarantee of success, and no gratitude whatsoever. The best you can hope for is to have that effort taken for granted and at least get to a new starting line with her.

When you do get to that starting line, the more self respect, self assurance, and personal happiness you've been able to build, the easier the path forward for both of you.

Luvhurts, how are you doing on forgiveness? For most people it's a 2 steps forward 1 step back process. If you can find forgiveness in your heart, it will take a load off and make everything easier.

I'm rooting for you, I think you're starting to see some positive signs -- keep it going! Be the man she would WANT to be with.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Posts: 157
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I don't know if the OM gave her the clothes or whether she bought them herself. My gut tells me the latter.

As far as forgiveness--yes, I can forgive her. Don't get me wrong, when I found out about OM, I was bursting at the seams with anger, but through it all, I learned that I can and would forgive her if she truly wanted to work on our M. Believe me, I never would have thought that I could ever say that, but yes, I can forgive her. Trust would be a problem, but one that we could overcome as long as she was willing to meet certain demands that I would have such as no contact with OM and other such demands.

I'll tell you, it hasn't been easy even getting to this point. I have all of you to thank for being that calm voice in the storm that is my life, especially Accuray, who has seemed to take a special interest in my situation and for that, I could never repay.

I hope that this is the start to the road back, but I'm not so sure--I have my doubts. I will continue on my path and hope that my W finds her way back to me, back to that love that she used to carry in her heart. To be honest, I know I can SURVIVE without my W, but I'm not so sure that I can really LIVE without her.


Me36, W38
S12, S3
T20, M4
Bomb dropped 8/18/11
Moved out 8/18/11
Filed for D 10/20/11
OM Confirmed 11/5/11
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,502
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Glad I'm helping Luvhurts, in this medium its hard to tell when I'm missing the mark and just being annoying.

One distinction I'd like to point out. You say you could forgive W if she's willing to work on the marriage and would agree to some demands.

What I'm talking about is forgiving W *now* and without conditions attached. You're not going to do it for her, you're going to do it for you.

If you can forgive her now, regardless of her attitude, you will be much more likely to successfully pave the road back.

It will change how you interact with her without you having to think about it. For you, it will be.a great release. You'll feel better about yourself and will spend less time dwelling on the injustices committed against you.

You have to choose the path of forgiveness, it won't just happen. You may not be ready, things may be too hard right now. Just think about it. Think about what it might take for you to get there and set small goals.

Remember, she wasn't evil and malevolent, she was a person in pain who made some bad decisions and dug herself in deeper and deeper. It wasn't about you, it was about her. You didn't make her do this, she chose it. For that, she can be forgiven, because it came from a place of weakness and hurt.

Just give it some thought, it's a difficult but rewarding road to take.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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