Okay, here's my situation. I've been with her for over 10 years, we've been married for over 7. Her son from her first marriage is 15, I love him as my own--met him when he was 4 and for all purposes I'm his dad.
I love her too, and would like to make it work. The bomb dropped on me on October 30th. I was sitting on the couch next to her watching TV, she was sending an email on her laptop. I looked over and saw her type "I love you too" and click send. My heart sunk. I shut the TV off and asked "who was that to?" She said it was to her aunt, her mother figure in her life (her mom and her don't speak). I challenged her, and then it all came out in a shock to me.
She's been dating her boss and she loves him. They are both about to lose their jobs due to layoffs. She's been very stressed about this for months--the layoff date was decided and then pushed back another month. During that timeframe there have been a lot of happy hours with the coworkers and I personally have had to travel due to work. I got to go to 2 of these after work things in the midsummer, actually met the guy which makes it even worse since I know what he looks like and he's shaken my hand, which is awful. I've been a tad distant in the relationship over the last few months--it's been a steady pace of her complaining about work, and although I thought I was supportive, in retrospect I can definitely admit that there where times when I just nodded into "yes yes yes" without actually hearing her when she was concerned about work. The boss, in the same situation, certainly would be more understanding than myself. Supposedly he is leaving wife and kids as well, they are in "love." At the onset of this discovery I got all panicked and hurt and sad--asking how we can fix this and asking her to come back to me. She cried, and said "there is no coming back" and "my first husband cheated on me and I know that feeling in the pit of your stomach where you never trust the person again." In our marriage, I've made statements like "I can't believe people who need counseling" or "I would never forgive cheating" but now that I'm in the situation, I'm going to admit I'm wrong wrong wrong.
So, now she spends 5-6 nights a week at the other guy's house, and son stays home with me. Son isn't getting enough time with either of us, I've sought support from my friends and family while I come to grip with what is going on. She will show up at home, do laundry, buy groceries for the son, sit around looking for a job and then disappear for the night again, not showing up for another day or two. When she does stay at the house she's sleeping on the couch. We're civil, I ask how she's doing and vice versa. The reality is inside I'm a wreck. I really do want to spend the rest of my life with her, and I want to understand what happened between us.
She's had a tough life, she had her son at a very young age in a house with a mentally abusive mother. She left and married early to escape her mother, then ended up married to the son's biological father, a troubled guy with intense ADHD and the inability to hold down a job. She finally couldn't take the emotional and physical abuse from him, and fled him as well. I fear that her toolkit consists of only pulling the ripcord--it's the first time our marriage has been tough and it's like leaving and rebooting is the solution?
I didn't make it easier on her, in retrospect. When the prospect of her job loss came up she considered starting her own company, a choice that would put considerable financial stress on me. Our finances are separate, partially because I'm the one that pays everything on time and she's the one that lets bills get to near collections before she does anything. This concerned me in starting a company as financial management is a big part of success.
I'm also the cleaner in the home, the one that can't leave a stain on the floor while her and son can sit in a mess and not care. I've gotten to the point where I just take care of it, but she's so sensitive to my years of nagging about it (and I have tried to stop) that me cleaning up anything in front of her produces a mean exhausted look.
Her aunt has taken her side, like all good family members would, but her aunt doesn't have a good track record with men. She's been divorced twice herself, and I've watched her humiliate her then-boyfriend in front of a bunch of people, berating his knowledge.
So my wife has had all this reinforcement that I've been "unsupportive," "incompatible" and that she feels like she's in an empty marriage. This weekend a book about Walk Away Wife appeared on the counter--am I supposed to read this? It's in her usual pipe of stuff--is there a message here?
Her career has been intensely stressful as she's had limited success in job changes. Each job is more of an escape from the previous rather than a move up. She'd paid her dues, but hasn't found the next step. After the bomb dropped on me, I found out a business trip for the current job was actually a job interview in another state 1500 miles away. She hasn't heard about that job yet--it's still possible they will offer to her.
I feel terrible, I thought I was in a successful happy relationship, and we had a breakdown in communication over the last 5 months-the classic "drift into our own things." There hasn't been a day I haven't kissed her goodbye in the morning and said I loved her, up until the bomb dropped. I care deeply for her, and I do want to work through this. It's been 3 weeks of me living without her for the most part. In retrospect I could see she was cutting me off--leaving early to hit the gym, coming home late, avoiding going to bed with me, until I caught her. I suspected a few things a month in advance, but didn't pursue. I work with computers and could have gotten into read her email but didn't because either 1) I'd find something, or 2) I'd not find something and I'd become "that guy."
I see her a couple of times a week, when she makes her pit stops at home. Her job ends on Wednesday, at which time she will have more time at home. She needs support--I was thinking this would all blow over going into the job loss and this was my time to step up and support her during unemployment. We have the financial success, happily, to survive this. Over the years she felt I haven't been helping enough--she brought this up leading up to the pre-bomb, and I made adjustments to what my expectation was from her assistance (starting in late September I pay for everything except our gym membership and our benefits, which are with her company). I think her coming to me about this was too late though for this to matter much.
It feels like she went and had this affair with the other guy in an effort to create an irreversible wedge. I don't necessarily see it as that way. I want to have this conversation with her, to talk about these things, to see if there is a chance we can work through this. I'm not happy without her--she is my sunshine and someone who always made me happy, even if I was blind to what she's missing. I can change, I'm a guy so obvious to her wasn't obvious to me. She has said "no chance" but I really want to get her and me to a counselor. I need to understand if there is a chance, if there is hope, or if there is something else she needs.
How can I get her to the table, to at least communicate? How do I ask, when it seems the ultimatum has already been given down? I cannot walk away from this person without knowing I did everything I could--I made promised to her I never intended to break.
Uhm... you can't get her to the table yet. Not yet. She's all involved with her boss right now. You can't "win" that. The DB'ing gives you diff options, but based on your post, you've got work to do on yourself.
Understand that it's not over until it's over. You're in the infancy of this thing with her. Start with working on you, start with doing the 180 to things like nagging or being a neat freak. Since she's not coming home etc etc etc, you may have to hoof her out to give her the dose of reality she actually needs. OR, you might have to suck it up and wait this thing out.
My H and I had to separate in order to make things come clearer. (As I well know, we'll have to do that again to put a final end to my mess.)
Get BOTH DB books. Also get Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It's an eye opening read. BTW, don't show her these books. (I'll explain in a sec) If she's left a book around for you. Get your own copy. READ it. Find out what kind of "advice" she's reading. Knowledge is power here. Read her book, then read YOUR books. Do NOT let her see these books. They are YOUR manual to get through this thing. Did I mention that you do NOT let her see these books YOU need to read? *smile*
I read mine, wrote notes in them, and it's funny now looking back at them again, and writing diff notes this time. It shows what parts of the DB worked, what took time, what didn't work for me, and what parts of "trouble" we've skipped over this time.
As for separating, sometimes the best thing is the BIG dose of reality that they need. If she's stressed, that means she's going to be stressed with him. If they potentially could lose their jobs... more stress. Doesn't sound like a good foundation for them, doesn't it. Don't enforce the ultimatum just yet. Read the books, be NICE (yes it's like having arrows stabbed at you.)... and once you've done that, then decide if you need to kick her out, or wait this thing out.
Abbey
T:22, M:20 H:55 Me:45 H-OW PA: N/07 OW Jan08 Bomb:Feb/08 S: Apr/08 Back together Ap1/09-Sept/11 Oct, 2011, uncertain future/H is a mess. Dec/11 - Doin'friend mode. Some days are better than others.
Okay, thanks Abbey. Yes I recognize this is just starting but I'm concerned if she flees to another city I won't have an opportunity. I've already done a 180 on the things that are easy for her to dislike about me--frankly they aren't as important to me as she is. We had discussions about this in the past before all this happened, I've always said my issues were "roommate" issues, not "life partner" issues. Unfortunately I didn't handle it well. She's going to be home a lot more, she's unemployed as of today.
I've read the Divorce Remedy, and unfortunately it's been sitting out so the cat is out of the bag on that one. I'm not really a note-taker so there's no highlights in it as clues.
The book she left on the counter appears marked up, but I don't think it's her who did this, the handwriting doesn't appear to be hers so I think she picked up a used copy. I will seek my own copy. So far I haven't acknowledged it--she's had some piles of stuff on the counters for ages so it's easy enough to pretend I haven't seen it. I will seek the additional book you stated as well.
I wonder if the boss relationship is on the outs already to be honest. She made a comment about being in the house more frequently and said "as a matter of fact more nights as well." I didn't react in any way to that comment. He has his own divorce to deal with, and he's a transplant with his wife & kids in another state. With no job prospect he may have to go home to attend to his personal affairs. He too is unemployed as of today.
Her job offer for the 1500+ mile away job didn't arrive, they passed on her, so she's now facing either severe underemployment or unemployment. Now she's talking about a job that's on 500 miles away, better for relationship with my stepson but still fleeing.
I can suck up and live with her, it's not a contentious relationship from me. It's painful, no doubt, and it stresses me greatly to see her and then watch her head out for another evening not with me, but that's how this stuff goes I guess.
I can be nice, it's not that difficult here for me to be honest. It's very very painful as anyone on this forum is aware of though. I'm not to enforce an ultimatum just yet, but I think my opportunity to get her to talk is going to close very quickly if she's constantly seeking another city to live in. Is it way too early to simply ask her to go to therapy with me? Even so I can begin to understand myself? It's not about solution, it's about understanding.
AJ, I get the living with this, and being in an emotional place that many (even here) can understand. It's like walking a tight rope.
As hard as it is... I might suggest you resist even making the comments you did about "more nights" too. It's too soon. Don't over sell the "buyer" signs she's making. (I'm a sales person).
Affirm, don't suggest. Show, don't tell. Smile instead and nod. Do something small and simple for her at times like this instead. EG: I'm making a cup of tea, did you want one? If she declines... just roll it off your back. Baby steps. Have a few of her favorite things around. Eg: Lemon tea. Hot chocolate. Favorite cookies or something. Something small. Don't over sell it. Include, don't push.
The ups and downs with the OM will ebb and flow. Be prepared for it. Just when you think you've made progress, you'll feel like you've just been dumped in the puddle.
I *understand* what you're doing and why. I've lived it and as good as the DB books are,...there's no perfect recipe for this. Def read that not just friends book. I'll give you pointers on how to "be" that friend that she seeks... and that's where the love begins to grow again.
T:22, M:20 H:55 Me:45 H-OW PA: N/07 OW Jan08 Bomb:Feb/08 S: Apr/08 Back together Ap1/09-Sept/11 Oct, 2011, uncertain future/H is a mess. Dec/11 - Doin'friend mode. Some days are better than others.
Oops... I wish they'd fix the edit thing here. Sometimes our sitchs is something that is hard to understand by even folks here who are in the same boats as us. Sometimes you have to do some very unconventional things in order to get through this, AND to try to make progress. No set recipe. It IS a chess match.
Abbey
T:22, M:20 H:55 Me:45 H-OW PA: N/07 OW Jan08 Bomb:Feb/08 S: Apr/08 Back together Ap1/09-Sept/11 Oct, 2011, uncertain future/H is a mess. Dec/11 - Doin'friend mode. Some days are better than others.
Abbey: The part where you said "As hard as it is... I might suggest you resist even making the comments you did about "more nights" too. It's too soon. Don't over sell the "buyer" signs she's making. (I'm a sales person)." confuses me just a little. I didn't say that, she did. And my response was very calm, short of my pupils dilating I don't think she' got much of a response out of me.
Yesterday was insanely tough, it was Thanksgiving without her or the son. I went to my brother-in-law's parent's home. It was warm, there were about 8 of us there, and there was food and football. It was way better than being alone. I was trying to mask my sadness at dinner and pushed through it, and on my way out is when I lost it. My 5 year old niece, who adores my stepson, asked if he was going to be coming over for Christmas. I mustered up all I could do to say "I don't think so sweetie," said goodbye, and pretty much lost it on the way out.
I did ask my wife two nights ago if she would do me the favor of coming to see a therapist with me. I've found a local one that actually cites the DB books on her website. I told her I need to understand. She asked a few questions and wondered if she is seeing her separate from me, and as I understand it we would start out together and then see the therapist separately. My wife got very cold and said "Alex there are things that have been broken for seven years" and alluded to her previous statement that this whole thing is done and over. I responded with "I just need to understand, even if it doesn't change us. I need to understand in order to move forward with me." She said she was supportive of that. I did make a point to tell her this person is a marriage therapist, not a personal therapist, and asked that she still consider going. She still agrees, but I don't think she liked that. I didn't want her to be unclear about what this person does and make her feel like she was being attacked if we go in. As of yet I have yet to make first contact with the therapist. All this might be a little too soon, but..
I'm very worried I don't have much time left. Wife is applying for job all over the country now, desperately trying to find something. Her job is now done, so she's unemployed. She's never not been unemployed for long, and this is very stressful for her. I feel badly--I will do what I can to be supportive, but how can I do this when it means she will get up and move across the country?
Right before the bomb, and continuing yesterday, she began the purge. First in her side of our home office she got rid of piles of old papers. Yesterday when I got home her and son had been there for a while after returning from her family Thanksgiving. She had been putting together garbage bags full of old stuff to purge and her side of the bedroom closet is now the emptiest I've ever seen it since we've been together. It's very distressing.
I'm doing my best to affirm, not tell. She's currently feeling under the weather and I've asked her if there is anything I can do for her, get her some Nyquil, etc. Frankly I would have done the same before the bomb. The area I'm having difficulty but working through is my level of neatness versus her. She's been cooking more to occupy her time, and cooking with her never means cleaning up after cooking, it means pots and pans in the sink for 3 days minimum. I just wasn't raised that way, but I remind myself what is important and I'm learning to blow it off. I wish I had learned that earlier.
I'm just..scared...I'm not going to get a chance here. She's very much like "the decision is made" and at times I feel like she might be just playing along because she doesn't have much for housing options. Of course friends and family say "she's just taking advantage of you" but I view that as a price to pay to try to move forward.
Do I schedule the therapist? She says she's willing to go, but I don't want to push her. At the same time, when I see "apply for job in Chicago and apply for job in St. Louis" on her to-do list, I get very anxious because she could be gone quickly.
FWIW, my H and I had to separate in order to really miss each other. Don't think that moving away, or out is the end all. It isn't.
Matter of fact, this time round, I'm the one pushing for the separation. NOTHING like a big heaping dose of reality to make the WAS grow their brain back. She's in fantasy mode... life would be great... only if, blah blah.
Get that Not Just Friends book. It explains alot, and you can use the psychology to apply in your sitch if she does get a job elsewhere. The closeness starts happening in Email, texting etc and are wonderful ways to get some space and breathing room whilst building rapport again.
BTW, what brought my H back was "going dark". He was only allowed to phone, and it was I who stressed no relationship talks etc. Funny how when you set those ground rules... when they're ready, they'll plow right through them. Stand tough, say things like baby steps etc. Separation, applying darkness and pulling back isn't something to be afraid of, - and yes, it was the hardest thing I ever did up til that point.
Abbey
T:22, M:20 H:55 Me:45 H-OW PA: N/07 OW Jan08 Bomb:Feb/08 S: Apr/08 Back together Ap1/09-Sept/11 Oct, 2011, uncertain future/H is a mess. Dec/11 - Doin'friend mode. Some days are better than others.
I've got the book, and I currently working through it, the DR book, and the WalkOut Woman book she left on the counter (got my own Kindle copy so hers is untouched on the counter). I'm kind of toggling between all 3 books, working on them and myself. Today it's been my work for most of the day. :-)
So what would people suggest on the issue of therapy--she's willing to go for me, do I take her? Remember to this point she's been 100% adamant that there is no saving our relationship, it all seems to be teetering on her finding a job.
Go of course! whatever the reason, it could help... though she seems to be pretty infatuated at this point it might not do much... no one will really know. But if she is willing to go then do it, no expectations thought... work on yourself.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
I will be calling the therapist tomorrow to make the first contact.
This past week developments have been--interesting. The other guy I believe has left town, to deal with his own family/divorce thing I would guess. I don't know for sure, but wife has now been staying in the house steadily for the past week, including sleeping on the couch every night.
I've been working on myself, staying away from nagging, and we've been getting along well. The 500 pound elephant in the room is what's going to happen with us. I don't know if she's still with the guy and it's turned into a distance thing, but I think she still has the attitude that we have too many problems. I'm hoping the therapist will bring that out of both of us. I'm concerned that she's been going through some level of depression, both now and leading up to the infidelity, and that I wasn't smart enough to notice it.
She is now unemployed, seeking jobs that are below her skill set and additional temp jobs. She's not a person to stay at home, so it's going to be tough on her.
Friday I was out of the house for most of the day, shopping and staying at a friends to make progress on the books suggested above. I came back Friday evening and son was playing video games as always at the kitchen table on his laptop, and wife wasn't anywhere to be found. She arrived home shortly afterwards after hitting the gym and doing a quick grocery run. She offered to make hamburgers for dinner, which I accepted. After we ate, I offered to do a pay-per-view movie, a comedy, which she enjoyed. My one stipulation on the movie was that neither of us could sit there with our laptops, a habit we both have when we should be doing things together. She agreed, but had to do "one quick email" which I presume is the other guy.
I enjoyed the movie, we sat on the couch next to each other. I didn't touch her, but my gosh it was almost more than I could handle, I so wanted to cuddle up with her. I kept my slight distance, and enjoyed the movie. She wasn't feeling well (cold or slight depression, I can't tell) so I suggested after the movie that son go to bed and me do the same. I went upstairs, she stayed on the couch.
Saturday I woke up before her, which is very very strange. I crept downstairs and got my breakfast, did a little reading, and then went back downstairs to get my gear and head to the gym. She had awoken, and looked a a little unwell. I expressed my concern, but not acting needy or overbearing. I headed to the gym for a 2 hour workout. I got home and she had been cooking--she takes up cooking whenever she is bored and she's been steadily making cookies, brownies, etc. for the past few days. She's taken to cleaning up more than she ever has, and I've absolutely done nothing to criticize her cleaning like my bad habit of the past--this simply isn't as important as us coming together. Saturday afternoon I spent the day away with family then came home, ordered pizza to share with son (she doesn't eat pizza due to food allergies) and we watched several of our old TV shows on the Tivo. I sat sideways next to her on the couch and she even playfully tickled one of my feet. I'm very confused about this, again I played it cool. Part of me wonders if I'm just being played so she has a place to be until her next job offer comes.
Today she headed out to see her best friend for breakfast, a thing she's done for years. I encouraged her to go--she needs to see her friends for sure. We had some talk about me calling the therapist tomorrow. She's in, but I am so concerned that she's going to feel like I'm attacking her by taking her to someone who is a marriage therapist. I think we both need help that a 3rd party could assist with. I don't know. I get mixed signals from her, and I think she's confused as well. I think she will go back to the infidelity and say it's not a repairable thing, because her first husband did that to her and she never got over it. I don't think so, but again we get back to her thinking and seeing me as the person she once loved.
I'm still working on me, still being strong, and following the DB and especially DR books. I believe we can get through this, but I can't push it on her.
So here I am, probably too hopeful at this point. I'm probably going too fast, setting myself up for too much pain, but again if she gets a job offer in another state she'll be off, and I want to be there to help her meet her dreams. I really screwed that part up this past summer, and I pray that it can work out for us.
