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~ kd ~ #2202243 11/30/11 07:00 AM
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hi Kaffee,

yes, i've read the rules... just read them again on wiz10's thread.

fortunately or not, depending on your point of view i suppose, he asked many of the same questions that i have been having and wondering about the answers seem to be good ones for me as well.

i've been thinking about posting her latest email (edited to protect identities) and my response, or at least the main parts of it. one of the things i'm having trouble with is that she says my emails are very different than when we talk face to face.

i don't disagree. when we talk face to face, seeing her anger and loathing often cause me to turn away so i don't tear up or get angry and respond in a manner which would only escalate things.

clearly a selective memory of mine from her email was that she was afraid to touch me again because she didn't want to let go but that she must because she cannot forgive nor forget what has happened.

i understand her feelings and feel not too dissimilar, i seem not to be able to forgive myself either. i feel that my mistakes don't define me yet that is how i think she is defining me. i've tried to be very honest about my history and about myself with her always fearful that if the fullness of what had transpired came to light it would effect our relationship, it has always done so in the past.

other selective memory bit is that she feels i deserve someone that will love me for who i am and that isn't her. she's been trying to tell me but i'm not listening, she claims. i hear her. i believe her. i tell her that i respect her decision and that i can respect her decision and still hope for my marriage to remain intact. not the old one, a new one. neither of us like how the old one had become. we both have work to do and we are both doing it. one of the harder parts for me to reconcile is that now, after all this time of riding the storm, when it's finally ending... we can see the end in sight...she cannot continue.

i've not been served yet so i find that a positive.

i know the three main areas that i need to work on.

a) when she's crying she wants me to come and comfort her. when i cried i didn't want that at first. i wanted to cry it out and then talk with her. i came home from walking and she was crying a day after telling me she didn't want to speak with me. i didn't say anything. she said "hi" sarcastically from her desk and i walked into the living room and asked her if she wanted to talk. she then explained that this has always been an issue in our relationship. she wants me to come and offer succor when she is crying and because i don't want that for me i don't do that for her. she's right. i'm better at it now...well...until she told me she didn't want to talk with me any longer. it's difficult to know how to respond to that.

b) when the girl moved into our house. she's convinced that i have feelings for her and does not believe me when i say that i don't. i don't. i didn't. there is a book called The Four Loves by C.S. Lewis, one of his best imo. in any case, he talks about Agape Love, love of your fellow human just for being a fellow human. i have explained to my wife that i felt that way due to the all the things i've already spelled out earlier. however, W is demanding "all the details" and thinks i won't give them to her because it won't save the marriage and nothing i can do will save it.

c) she thinks i need to get a job. i'm trying. do you have any idea how hard it is to get a job in the IT field when you're disabled and been out of work for 5 years? it's bloody hard. it's not really possible to do lots of jobs that i could probably get in a large store or something like that since i'm restricted in weight and certain accomodations (sitting/standing for long durations is a no go) and so it's even harder. fortunately, i collect disability and the job i had before i lost it due to that disability was pretty good so i get a decent amount of money. if she had a job we'd probably not have any money worries. we're fairly frugal however she's lately been expressing her dismay that i'm not motivated to succeed in the corporate world etc. not willing to do what a real man would do to support his family.

c) well... h3ll, i forgot what this is now as i'm kind of tired. enough for now anyway...when i think about it i feel myself become terribly sad. i'm so desperately lonely and alone and so is she. moreso than me perhaps. this is the worst thing that i've ever had to go through as an adult.


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JaeC #2202246 11/30/11 07:19 AM
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have to attend to sleep so not able to post much right now.

Just a reminder that detaching doesn't have to mean NC. It is as much about getting yourself off the emotional roller coaster. If you can be in her presence and have convo with her without getting sucked in, that is the goal...

It doesn't seem you're 100% there, yet. Not sure how many really do get to that point. We can't be ambivalent, we have history with our spouses.

Keep working at it, it gets easier.

As far as IT work, I understand. I'm not disabled, but having primarily a independent consultant for the past 15 years, it's hard to impress a company that you can be a long term, capable and quality empolyee... I'm looking at job alternatives...

Good luck with that. Something will come up for you.

~ kd ~ #2202383 11/30/11 08:44 PM
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journaling:

so strange today...she spoke like there was a future, that she wanted one with me and that we're working through things... she instantly interrupted me and told me that she's not further along the healing path, she just realized that she had a choice and she was choosing something other than me. in some ways it's like she's acting out her anger at her father whom is a loathsome individual and uses his money to control people, her in particular. in any case, i'm blamed for her asking him to help us all during our marriage though when it could have really been helpful to us she and he were not speaking and i never pressured her to do anything especially ask for money. i figured we'd always survive somehow... something always comes up.

@Kaffee. oh, we have contact everyday as we live in the same house, have breakfast and dinner and sometimes lunch together. it just depends on if she's pouring her anger and rage out at me or not on what happens. unfortunately i'm not able to endure much of that before i have to leave or i'll respond angrily. i did the other day and she followed me, screaming and yelling all the way... i went down into the basement and closed the door behind me, she opened it continuing to scream and then slammed it shut and left the house. she got her in her car and was doing down the driveway when i opened the front door and asked her where she was going... she backed up and rolled down her window and said "f you" and my response was "i'd love to, come get some." probably not the best thing to say and though i feel like i was pretty restrained i can see how that may not have gone over well.

she sent a huge email, the one previously mentioned, where she apologized for all of that and was surprised at how she had acted.

you know.. the thing is...i don't want our relationship like it had become, either. we talked about that today and she was glad to hear that i recognized that it hadn't been good for us in a while. she's right. she said that she could accept me as a person, which is a nice change, but she couldn't accept being with me. so many mixed messages i can't really tell what the hell is going on. i know that she hasn't served me yet because the attorney has told her that we can't be living together for that to happen and her parents can't figure out why she hasn't served me yet. i wonder if i'll get served at the trauma unit...that may not be a bad place for it but it would be pretty awful at the same time.


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JaeC #2202390 11/30/11 08:56 PM
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Interesting turn for you JaeC. Stay the course!


-Autumn

Autumn Leaves #2202395 11/30/11 09:13 PM
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hi Autumn,

i don't think i can do anything other than that, really. she's convinced herself of a few things which aren't really how things are between us. she's been using a great deal of absolutist language "always" "never" "everyone" and things like that and then she's confiding in me and expressing herself in a reasonable manner that can be constructive for us.

when we had our first "this is the end" issue it was me going to leave her unless she did certain things which i explained. in my case, she won't explain it and thinks i should know. i was willing to tell her what it would take to restore my trust and yet she is unwilling to do the same. *sigh*

it's like a whirling, twisting open ended thrill ride without a seat belt. i suppose that, on the other side of everything, i'll be a healthier person, better parent and better partner than i have been previously. it's hard to keep looking at the future when you're hanging your head in shame and embarrassment though.


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JaeC #2202399 11/30/11 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: JaeC
hi Autumn,

when we had our first "this is the end" issue it was me going to leave her unless she did certain things which i explained. in my case, she won't explain it and thinks i should know. i was willing to tell her what it would take to restore my trust and yet she is unwilling to do the same. *sigh*



Is it possible that she doesn't know what it will take, she may not know exactly what she needs from you yet. It may be some time before you get to that point. Try to be patient if you can. I know that it is much easier said than done.


-Autumn

Autumn Leaves #2202402 11/30/11 09:34 PM
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that's possible however i have the feeling that she's told me over these many years and yet somehow i wasn't able to connect the dots or wasn't motivated to do so...i'm not sure. perhaps i'm just blaming myself out of habit...though i've been listening to her saying a few things but, to me, they aren't really accurate.

for instance, when she gets into an argument with someone she wants/expects my defense of her. while that makes sense to me if anything were to get physical it doesn't make a lot of sense to me for me to interject into an argument between her and another woman that we know. she is quite capable of holding her own in those things but she feels that my not doing so means i won't defend her.

i've been working really hard to be able to change my behavior with regards to when she cries...coming to her instead of letting her be, as i've preferred most often. hard to do that now, of course.

she said that she won't let anyone have access to her again. i'm not entirely sure what it means but she said the same to me in "the email" that she can't let me have access to her. i suppose that's a particular term that has a meaning that i'm just unaware of.

her birthday is Friday and my son is looking forward to it. i'm glad that i'll get to be here on Friday to celebrate it with her though she said there is nothing to celebrate. *sigh*


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Bomb 9/13/2011

JaeC #2202489 12/01/11 05:07 AM
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journaling:

interesting conversation tonight for me not to focus too much on the future about where i'll live or where she'll live etc. she said that it was hard because she wanted to hug me. eventually we were in the kitchen looking at pictures of my son from school to figure out which ones to buy and i put my hand on her shoulder and left it there for a moment. she sighed and turned and put her arms around me and we hugged for about 4 mins. it was nice, really nice. i haven't had an affectionate touch in nearly 10 months so i'm savoring it, as brief as it was and as much as i may read into it.


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JaeC #2202522 12/01/11 01:59 PM
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Lucky you!

I wonder, since she's yearning for touch too, if this might work for you. What if you tell her how good it felt to hug and just let her know you won't read anything into it but goodwill in the moment or something. Suggest that if she was holding back because she didn't want you to misunderstand, that she doesn't need to worry about that.

If you can be honest about that, you might be able to show more affection to each other and build on that.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Happiness is a warm puppy.
adinva #2202540 12/01/11 02:58 PM
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hi Adinva,

thank you for the suggestion. this morning we hugged in the kitchen and my son asked "mom, why are you hugging dad?" and she responded "because we love each other." she also told me that if she could have figured out how to make the intercom work she would have asked me to join her in bed last night since it was cold here. she couldn't and didn't want to get out of bed however i think that is a positive development.

i told her that i dreamed about her last night, she and i and our son were camping on an island where wild ponies lived and as our son went to sleep we stayed awake by the campfire waiting to see the dolphins swimming up the coast at dawn.

perhaps that was a bit too much but overall, the past few days have seemed more positive than negative.


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