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~ kd ~ #2200952 11/24/11 09:59 AM
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I also wanted to comment on what you posted in the b-day / Xmas post:

Originally Posted By: JaeC
she was angry with me today and curt but she apologized later. she said she didn't want to talk about OR any longer and that if she didn't say "you're getting a second chance" i wouldn't start doing the things to improve myself to show her that i deserve a second chance.


As you mentioned in your previous post on this thread, your W gets "angry" with you a lot... I'll touch on that in a bit...

I'm not sure if I'm reading the above correctly, what she said is what would be considered "script". It's also controlling... your description of her verbal abuse above and in previous posts is concerning... again, I'll touch further on this in a bit...

Originally Posted By: JaeC
she's entitled to that view, of course, but i would disagree. i've done a huge amount of personal growth and am changing decades old habits as quickly as i can...i'm sure they could be faster with some folks but that's just not how it is for me right now.


The above statement suggests growth, although it will take time for the changes to be convincing. There's also a bit of "victim" language in your comment. Not sure if you FEEL yourself a victim and out of control, just something for you to think how language often reflects subtle or sometimes unconscious feelings and beliefs...

~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, back onto the topic of your description of your W's episodes of anger...

It's said two wrongs don't make a right. Just because you deal with rage outbursts, does not give your W permission to do the same. Here's the thing, though...

First, I get that it takes a "STRONG" woman to put up with men who deal with anger issues... From many relationships like those, I often see the women can "hold their own"...

Here's where the sitch might be a little sticky or confusing...

Is your description of her anger outbursts, simply reflections of what you THINK she is doing based on what could be your own anger episode?

ie. Is it her getting in your face, or is it you raging, so she goes into attack mode?

Can you see patterns to this? Are you triggering, which then triggers your W?

Having said that, while you might have PTSD and rage episodes... well, your W could have something going on, as well... I'm not suggesting you try to figure out what is "wrong" with her... I only mention it because the variables might add up to something that could get ugly...

So again, I just wanted to add the above and will restate:

Take charge and control of yourself, protect yourself from the sitch, and once you've emotionally settled yourself... get back to DBing at "a safe distance"...

~ kd ~ #2201030 11/24/11 10:00 PM
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I think both your couselors should talk.
Don't move out, Aliens tell you to go, but don't mean it.
See PARENT TRAP.

Find out her LOVE LANGUAGES.

Woman consider nite time routine theirs, don't intrude.

As you get well, you can do mom things with kid.
Best and easist is to baby sit while she goes shopping.
Little steps.
Maintain a journal.


Poe Has Got Off The Runaway Train
~ kd ~ #2201048 11/25/11 01:29 AM
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thank you for the heart felt advice Kaffe, i great appreciate it. she has kicked me a few times but that was a very long time ago...years ago now.

you are spot on, however, when you suggest that it would be somewhat of a distraction, i'll just help my son with his card and that will be all. she's already said that she doesn't give a crap about our relationship any longer so i suppose i need to start detaching from it as well.

i know that she has feelings for me and wants me to be happy and all of that, which i want for her as well. i confess that i think it would be fairly awful for my son but then again, there's a chance of my staying which could make it awful for him too and, in that case, then it would be better were i gone.

i walk away when i get really angry, and always have when i'm able to do so. i don't like the feeling of being angry or the things that i may say when i am. i usually end up regretting it in some manner.

gah...i would hate to be hitting that bait.

i know i have to do so and for the life of me i wonder why it seems so bloody hard to do! other issues are clouding this and it's probably going to be a tricky thing to pull the roots out of this but i'm working on it every day.

i'll post as often as i can though it becomes problematic as my online activity is one of the things which she doesn't care for very much, due to my own previous actions i want to make clear.


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Bomb 9/13/2011

JaeC #2201083 11/25/11 04:25 AM
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Good stuff, Jae...

With the card, as your son is just turning five, try to be "age appropriate" with his card to your W. IOW, "think like a five year old"... wink

As far as your own anger, has your therapist or other support channel provided you with any tools other than "flight" when you feel your anger welling up? ie. Do you have any "thought stopping" techniques or deep breathing or similar...?

Because like your W coming after you and being in your face when you were in your car, one can't always rely on flight to remove oneself from a bad sitch...

Be well. Believe in yourself. Be the best dad and male role model you can be for your son, however that works and looks...

Start there... yes... it's all hard to do... that's normal for all LBS... it gets easier...

~ kd ~ #2201212 11/26/11 12:24 AM
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hi Kaffee,

yes, we've been working on all manner of things to deal with the ptsd anger stuff and it's mostly working, oh i still get angry but i'm not yelling or anything like that. by the same token, she's not been up in my face screaming though that may change some tonight... she's really pissed off at me for my online activity, again.

i keep wondering why it is that i feel like i've been beaten and simply want to give up. she said she didn't give a crap about the relationship any longer and then gets upset at me being online...so does she care or not? i tend to think that she does, on some level, and is wanting me to demonstrate that i'm the person that she wants me to be.

the problem with that is that i *have* to be the person that i am not the person that she needs me to be or wants me to be for that matter. ideally, we'd both accept each other as we are rather than only accepting each other if we conform to what each other wants or would like.

i think that i finally felt her being detached from me the other night and i've been grieving this for the better part of 60 days now... i suspect i will for some time to come regardless of how things work out for me personally...that said, i think i am getting to a place where i can accept the reality of her statements and don't have any particular desire to try to dissuade her of her ideas to leave.

i'm a good person, with good qualities and i'm worth a second chance. if she chooses not to allow that, then so be it.

the fact is being a good role model to my son means that i have to stick to my principles and do what i need to do to show him, demonstrate for him, that one must be who they are and pursue their dreams despite the cost involved for, in the end, we each come into this world alone and will leave it alone.

she screamed at me today that i was a liar and that she couldn't trust anything that came out of my mouth...of course she's said this on several occasions since i've been home from the trauma unit so it's not like anything particularly new in that regard and she's only accusing me of it because she didn't really listen to what i was saying to her and thought i said something that i didn't. it's been like that for years though.


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Bomb 9/13/2011

JaeC #2201247 11/26/11 07:12 AM
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oh yes, the proverbial brown stuff hitting the swiftly moving rotary blades was the scene tonight. arguing if i'm a liar, mocking, ridiculing, shaming and blaming for everything. indeed, she cannot recall a single thing that i've done which was for her benefit in 14 years and thus it's all be wasted. she blames me for making her have our son!

i didn't make her do anything, of any sort, at any place. she claims that she felt like she had to or i'd leave her, playing on her abandonment issues. i've got those of my own! the last thing i want is to be abandoned!

it's just horrible here now. it was cold between her and i today and it's going to get worse, quickly. at this point, right before she went to bed, she said "i don't want to work it out with you." cursed a lot at me and went upstairs to bed. i had my dinner (was in the garage fixing the garage door and didn't get told dinner was ready and then they went up for bath and bed before i was even done) went down to the basement and cried for about 15 mins, yelled at myself in the mirror, behind four closed doors, that i shouldn't tell her things any more that are sensitive cause she uses them against me.

they are legitimate personal insights and breakthroughs regarding the nature of my being and the tone and tenor of my character and revealing them requires a great deal of trust...and i have no idea why i still give that to her. i suppose that she has me fairly convinced that this was all my fault...every bad thing or misfortune in our lives was directly or indirectly my fault and she went along with them because she was high, we both we're... we're both dealing with a great deal of personal trauma and it got her off alcohol...it's a main part of our work to stop numbing our feelings and actually experience them.

so. i feel like that's it. i've never seen her change her mind once it's made up and i've never been on the receiving end of her anger like this. it is hard for me to deal with actually, i'm still very much in love with her and find her to be very beautiful. i get intimidated around women i find attractive *sigh* makes it hard to be present and mindful about what is going on and... suddenly....

i wonder if she knows me well enough (and she does) to know that she can guilt trip me in such a devastatingly hard manner if she chose to...and i hope she isn't doing that but it sure is difficult not to feel as if this has all been my fault.


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Bomb 9/13/2011

JaeC #2201708 11/28/11 02:46 PM
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just a quick update...

this weekend was both good and bloody terrible. it was good for a lot of it in that i was included in the various craft projects and things, making ornaments for our tree etc. terrible in that our exchange of emails kept getting worse...well... her's kept getting worse. my last email was something like "i'm sorry that you feel that way." and nothing more which caused her to blast another one at me saying that i was just waving away her concerns, dismissing them and avoiding responsibility for my actions. so then i sent a long one address most of the points which she raised in her tirade, some things i simply didn't address since there could be nothing positive which comes from them... and i don't suspect anything positive will come of the last one, either. the main point which she's making is that a)she started losing respect for me from the 3rd month of our marriage, b) it's my fault that this happened, c) i'm not motivated to change my circumstances, d) she deserves something/someone better...yet i'm the one denying my responsibility for my actions?!

i felt some connection between us a few times since i've been back though she says that's all in my head and that she hasn't touched me in months. of course she threw herself into my arms for a hug not more than two weeks ago (three now) when our home had it's first open house which i pointed out to her. didn't go over so well but then at this point i'm thinking that "going over well" is the least of my concerns.

i need to detach from her and this life and start dealing with my emotional states so that i can be a good father to my son regardless of where i live or how i live.


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Bomb 9/13/2011

JaeC #2202120 11/29/11 08:51 PM
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journaling:

worst email from her yet. this email seemed like the woman that i married...and it broke my heart to hear her suffering and pain coming to the decision she has. she said that i deserve someone that will love me for who i am and that is not her. she must let me go because of how much hurt and humiliation she feels, how shamed and discounted. she cannot forgive nor forget.

i'm more devastated than when she's yelling and screaming at me...this is someone that you could talk to the other person wasn't. it's all so terribly screwed up... she concluded her email saying she was sorry for how this turned out and neither one of us deserved it.


H:44 W:43
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Bomb 9/13/2011

JaeC #2202206 11/30/11 03:33 AM
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journaling:

responded to the aforementioned email after lunch today with her. it was just as devastating and i ended up sobbing as i was typing.. even behind three closed doors and towel over my mouth, i can be heard. the only place left for me to go is somewhere else and that is kind of impractical at the moment.

i think i've been in denial about the whole thing...she's been telling me and telling me and i keep kind of not talking about it too much though did at first and before i read DB. i've been really working on such hugely important personal changes however she can only see me now when she looks back rather than the present and future. i don't want the relationship we had, either. i wasn't going to leave it though. don't get me wrong, i've behaved in reprehensible ways and have, i think, brought this all upon myself.

i thought the holidays sucked before! i had no idea they could be this bad!


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Bomb 9/13/2011

JaeC #2202225 11/30/11 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: JaeC
i need to detach from her and this life and start dealing with my emotional states so that i can be a good father to my son regardless of where i live or how i live.


That is HUGE... it is ok to journal and let stuff out... well, truth is there's no wrong or right in how you behave or what you do, that is true to you...

except that in order to move forward and take care of what needs taking care of (yourself and your son), you do need to detach your emotions from her.

It will show up in your writing style and who you journal about and it will take whatever time it takes for you...

It starts with stepping back and changing focus on you. Have you read the LRT and the 37 rules? Hopefully someone else can post them for you, I don't have them handy...

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