NOTICE: In order to help the OnLine Community run more efficiently, we will be pruning the boards over the next few weeks. If there are any Topics or Posts you want to keep, please save them soon.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2185092 - 09/09/11 09:42 PM TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS
sgctxok Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/01
Posts: 10731
LOVE ILLUSIONS
After listening to tape/cd#1, did you feel more optimistic about your situation? Why or why not?

Which of the five Love Illusions challenged your thinking the most?

1) Have you ever thought that love is a feeling that just happens? How did learning about this illusion get you to thinking differently about loving your spouse?

2) Have you ever thought that there is something wrong with your marriage because you argue? How did learning about this illusion get you to think differently about conflict in relationships?

3) Before learning about this illusion, on a 1-10 scale, with 10 being extremely optimistic and 1 being pessimistic, how would you have rated your level of optimism about the possibility of your spouse changing? Now that you’ve listened to the tape, on that same scale, where would you have rated your level of optimism?

4) Do you and your spouse have different styles of communication? How so? Which parts of the tape made you feel that you and your spouse had been spied upon? Were you blaming your spouse for being different than you in this regard? How has what you’ve learned helped you to feel more accepting of your differences?

5) What do you think of the idea that when women are seen as nagging, they’re desiring more closeness in the relationship? Men, have you thanked your wives for nagging yet?



What have you and/or your spouse been doing differently since you listened to tape one?


Edited by sgctxok (09/09/11 10:45 PM)
_________________________
sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001

Top
#2185206 - 09/10/11 01:48 PM Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: sgctxok]
sgctxok Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/01
Posts: 10731
Love Illusion #1-

"Love is a feeling you either have or don't--you can't "make it happen". If you don't feel love anymore, there is nothing you can do to revive it." ***********************************************************

Are your "feelings" of love for your partner, or your thoughts of their "feelings" of love for you, taking you on a roller-coaster ride that you didn't buy a ticket for? How often do you find these "feelings" changing, depending on the circumstances at any given time?

What do you think about love being a "decision", rather than a "feeling" that just happens? How did learning about this illusion get you to think differently about loving your partner?

What are your thoughts about "making your relationship last by putting it first"? How often have you've been guilty of taking your relationship for granted, not nurturing it like the "living thing" that it is?

How many other "priorities" in your life have you placed ahead of your relationship? Careers, kids, hobbies, family, friends, hobbies, etc.?

How do you think that spending more time together might help to nurture your relationship? Have you often found yourself not being able to "find" the time to spend together, or have you ever made it a point to "make" time to spend together? If your schedule is hectic, with not much time to spare, how have you been able to take advantage of some special "moments" to connect with your partner? Maybe even just a few minutes at a time?

How often have you taken the time to appreciate your partner, who they are, and what they mean to you in your life? What do you think might happen if you were to do this more often? Do you think your partner knows that you think of them in good ways, appreciative ways, or do you find yourself thinking that they should already "know" that you love them, and your relationship, and don't take your life and love together for granted?

List some actions you can take to give your relationship the attention it deserves. What are some things you can do to really show your partner that you love and appreciate them?
_________________________
_________________________


Edited by sgctxok (09/10/11 01:49 PM)
_________________________
sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001

Top
#2186131 - 09/14/11 02:14 AM Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: sgctxok]
keep_going Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 834
Here are my thoughts re. Love Illusions related to my R

Love Illusion #1
I have been aware of this concept for months now, and I have really changed my behavior with H to show him that he is my priority #1. I continue choosing to love him, even as I have been finding out about OW, how bad he treats me sometimes and despite all the pressure I get from friends and family to resign, get a lawyer, divorce him and move on.

H just recently admitted he is in love with OW. So following the rationale of Illusion #1, I am not very hopeful about him coming back anymore and this is why: He has CHOSEN to love OW and really makes that R his priority. They both constantly nourish and improve their R, so it becomes stronger every day.

So there is no room for H to choose to love me, no matter how much I have changed, because he has chosen to love her. He is not giving any more water, nourishment or attention to ours.
We both took each other for granted and now he has left and moved on to nourish another R.

In addition, he is not AWARE that he has chosen to love her. He thinks it "just happened" and with that thinking, the believes that his love for me just disappeared and will not ever come back, because it's something that "just happens." frown

Illusion #2:
This is a HUGE factor in our R. We argued ALL THE TIME. I admit that I had A LOT of anger towards H for many years (it doesn't really matter if I had reasons for it or not.) All my life I have resorted to tantrums and anger to get my way. For my H, anger and arguments are a sign of failure (he comes from a broken home and his father was an alcoholic). H now blames the demise of our M on my anger. He describes it as 13 years of abuse. Since he left, I am taking care of my anger issue and have made a lot of progress, but H still believes this was a deal-breaker and does not trust that I will ever be any different, which leads to Illusion #3.

Illusion #3
My H has DEFINITELY convinced himself that I will never change and be in control of my anger. As a matter of fact, he wants a partner that Never gets angry (which is probably impossible). He has told me that OW never argues... My only hope is that with DB, 180s and TIME, I can prove him otherwise. Words right now mean nothing, specially when I have had so many setbacks in the last two months. I KNOW that people can change and ironically, my H used to believe so (his dad stopped drinking), but somehow H doesn't think I can.But I will keep trying and hope this program will help me show him with actions that I can change.

Illusion #4
One of our problems has been that H clams up and does not share his feelings with me. Part of it is my fault - I was so busy being angry that he gave up trying. He felt that he could not share with me because I would get angry or ignore him. Another problem in our communication is that because our R has deteriorated so much, we just assume the worst of each other. With so much arguing, he has resigned to simply avoid conversations that he feels will trigger a fight.
We definitely have diff. ways of communicating - even though we both like to share feelings, I talk a lot and he is very succinct. He Hates when I repeat myself, which I tend to do a lot. He also means what he says and I, as many women, expect him to guess what I really want or mean. I also feel like he doesn't listen to me. He asks me things that we have talked about before (sometimes more than once...) I used to get really upset about this. Now I have accepted it and just take a deep breath and repeat myself. (yet, I don't believe he has noticed this change). H is also goal-oriented when talking and wants to fix problems and offer solutions when I talk about my feelings. I would hate this and get angry. I am now learning that we just simply communicate differently, but I have more work to do with this one. Bottom line - I need to remind myself of our gender differences. look out for triggers and train myself.

Illusion #5
I know H definitely felt unappreciated because of my complaints. He doesn't understand of the need for attention behind nagging. I am working on 180s - where instead of nagging, I show appreciation for the things he does, so he can feel loved. I am also working on not complaining and being more positive about everything. I need to do a better job of phrasing things differently so he doesn't get defensive or feel criticized.
_________________________
Me & H: 43
D6
D5
S2.5
Together: 21 years, M: 16 years
EA: 11/13/10
ILYBNILWY & Separation - 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12




Top
#2186132 - 09/14/11 02:19 AM Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: sgctxok]
keep_going Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 834
Another thought / question re. Love Illusion #1.

We're not supposed to pressure or pursue spouse and give them space.

But part of showing with actions that our M and R is #1 priority, involves spending more time together, giving more attention, show appreciation with everyday things, etc.

Wouldn't that just push them away if they feel pressured?
I feel like there is a fine line here - how do you know when to show and give attention and when to back off???

This is the single-most challenging part / question of the whole DB program for me...

thoughts?
_________________________
Me & H: 43
D6
D5
S2.5
Together: 21 years, M: 16 years
EA: 11/13/10
ILYBNILWY & Separation - 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12




Top
#2186998 - 09/17/11 01:12 AM Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: keep_going]
Johnnieno1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/11
Posts: 309
I would say the biggest part of it seems to be your constant relationship talking, and backsliding.

I have done a 180 in this department too. I don't talk about our relationship now. My WAW lives with me too and I would classify our current marriage as a roommate situation. Slowly and I mean S L O W L Y... I am doing more things to soften my wifes heart... Just little things like:

acts of kindness (buy her a coffee in the morning)

talking more, (if we are watching TV, I will pause the show and ask her thoughts)

physical touch (this is a little more tricky, but I try to make glancing brushes just a short touch)

In the past she would have refused these actions or been short with me, but now, she's more pleasant. I would also attribute her slight warming to the fact that she has been working full time at her new job as a painter and is getting a taste of what life would be like as a single parent. (believe me thaw grass is no greener over there) This morning, I gave her 2 new t shirts that I picked up for her for work, 1 white and one purple her favorite color. I was cautious to give them to her when she was in a receptive mood (which is early in the morning because after work she is tired and cranky). Anyways, she went and changed out of her other work shirt into the new purple shirt right away and went off to work. I take that as a good sign. Here is the key, as I see it:

Every time you lose your temper and backslide, you are resetting the counter to zero.

Every time you force relationship talk, you are resetting the clock to zero.

Every time you take a deep breath before you repeat yourself...

You know what I'm getting at here. I HAVE BEEN WHERE YOU ARE. I know it's tough, but consistency + time + patience = success... If not success at saving your marriage, at least success in breaking the cycle of behaviors you are teaching your kids. I know that for me (and I had trouble controlling my rage) I always felt awful with myself when I lost it. Now I am proud of me. My kids are not afraid of me when they do something wrong, my wife admitted that she is more open to talking with me because in her words "I trust that I can talk to you and you won't blow up"... But best of all I don't have to feel ashamed of how I handled myself. I see a new man in the mirror.

Only by working on me, can there be a possibility of an us...

After all isnt that what we all want?

Johnnie
_________________________
Me 45 W 34 W.A.W.
3K. D11 S9 D6
M 12 y T 13 y
Bomb drop 02/22/2011
2nd written bomb (Letter bomb) 05/31/2011
Affair (A bomb) revealed 07/03/2011

Top
#2187418 - 09/19/11 02:28 PM Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: Johnnieno1]
keep_going Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 834
Johnnie

Thank you soooo much for your feedback. I feel like you know exactly what I am going thru and appreciate you sharing your experience with me. You give me hope that with your changes you are seeing improvement in your R and also with your kids and also to see that you are a happier person for it.

You are a source of inspiration for sure, so keep up the good work - I will follow your progress.

I realize that my journey in trying to save my M will be a marathon and patience and consistency will be key if I will succeed. But the most important thing you brought up to me is that I HAVE to break the cycle of bad behavior I am teaching my kids. That to me is non-negotiable and a must-do and I will never stop trying, no matter how much I backslide, because THEY DESERVE BETTER FROM ME.

Getting to this realization took my a long time, but I am there now and I believe that will help me reach my goals.

I have also learned that it is ok to look and act human and be vulnerable. I grew up in a family were looking strong was important and vulnerability was seen as a weakness. Now I realize it's not only ok, but healthier to openly talk about my short-comings and show my emotions and my efforts, even if I fail. My kids are very young still, but I am already starting the dialogue with my almost 4-year old re. how to express emotions in a healthy way and how it's ok to make mistakes.

I will post again after I listen to the next CD in the program...
_________________________
Me & H: 43
D6
D5
S2.5
Together: 21 years, M: 16 years
EA: 11/13/10
ILYBNILWY & Separation - 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12




Top
#2188768 - 09/24/11 05:08 PM (NA) Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: keep_going]
sgctxok Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/01
Posts: 10731
^
_________________________
sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001

Top
#2189059 - 09/26/11 10:39 AM (NA) Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: sgctxok]
JAS2000 Offline
New Member

Registered: 09/20/11
Posts: 17
Keep_Going, I am kind of feeling like I am at where you are. My H does not seem to understand that you must choose to love someone, it is not some magical feeling that just happens. The odd thing is he knows (and says) he is making a CHOICE to cling to OW and he knows it blocks him from feeling for me but he does not think it is a CHOICE to love me or not. Funny how that works isn't it?

Top
#2192063 - 10/11/11 04:44 PM (NA) Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: JAS2000]
tnmom66 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 71
Loc: Tennessee
Love Illusion #1-

"Love is a feeling you either have or don't--you can't "make it happen". If you don't feel love anymore, there is nothing you can do to revive it."

My partner believes this. He has talked out of both sides of his mouth on this subject, though. When I was giving up on ever getting what I need out of our relationship and was ready to move on to someone who could, he would say he couldn't give it to me now, but he didn't know about later (he has no idea of how and when his "feelings" may change). When I said, "I can't make you love me," he said, "How do you know?" and told me he had feelings for me from time to time, but I'd always do something to kill them before they had a change to grow. When I ask him if he WANTS to have feelings for me, he says it doesn't matter if he does or not, since he has no control over them. When I ask him what I can do to make him feel better about me, he says, "Nothing". Well, since our "relationship talks" typically just have us chasing our tails, I am going to make it a point to avoid them. We are IN a "relationship" and he has made it clear that he doesn't want me asking him about his feelings, etc. I will honor that.

As far as MY opinion about Illusion #1,I don't believe it and never have as it applies to myself. I do think, however, that you can't MAKE another person love you, although I do believe that you can do things to encourage it if the other person is open.

"List some actions you can take to give your relationship the attention it deserves. What are some things you can do to really show your partner that you love and appreciate them?"

I think my partner knows how much I love and appreciate him. I'm currently emotionally distancing from him. I have always been TOO available, TOO transparent, TOO eager to please. I am taken for granted. After 4 years of saying "I love you" and getting only an "okay" or "thanks" in return, I think it is time to do a 180.

What I typically do is tell him often how much I love and appreciate him. I give him as much physical touch as I feel is welcome. I try to spend as much time as possible with him and ge as pleasant a companion as possible. I tell him how much I enjoy his company. As often as possible, I will do little things for him. For example, when he went on a trip and left his car with me, I washed it for him (and didn't mention it). I'll cook "goodies" for him and occasionally full meals. I have written him poems and sent him texts and letters expressing how important he is to me. Sometimes I just feel inspired to go beyond the everyday acknowledgement of how much I value him. He knows I think he is wonderful and gorgeous beyond compare.

I would LOVE to have more time with him. I wish time with me was one of HIS priorities. Our problem is NOT him not feeling important.

Top
#2196676 - 11/03/11 08:30 PM Re: (NA) Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: tnmom66]
sgctxok Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/01
Posts: 10731
Originally Posted By: Lydia
Love Illusion #1-

"Love is a feeling you either have or don't--you can't "make it happen". If you don't feel love anymore, there is nothing you can do to revive it."

My partner believes this. He has talked out of both sides of his mouth on this subject, though. I hate that When I was giving up on ever getting what I need out of our relationship and was ready to move on to someone who could, he would say he couldn't give it to me now, but he didn't know about later (he has no idea of how and when his "feelings" may change). When I said, "I can't make you love me," he said, "How do you know?" and told me he had feelings for me from time to time, but I'd always do something to kill them before they had a change to grow. When I ask him if he WANTS to have feelings for me, he says it doesn't matter if he does or not, since he has no control over them. When I ask him what I can do to make him feel better about me, he says, "Nothing". Well, since our "relationship talks" typically just have us chasing our tails, I am going to make it a point to avoid them. We are IN a "relationship" and he has made it clear that he doesn't want me asking him about his feelings, etc. I will honor that.

As far as MY opinion about Illusion #1,I don't believe it and never have as it applies to myself. I do think, however, that you can't MAKE another person love you, although I do believe that you can do things to encourage it if the other person is open.
we are on the same page
"List some actions you can take to give your relationship the attention it deserves. What are some things you can do to really show your partner that you love and appreciate them?"

I think my partner knows how much I love and appreciate him. I'm currently emotionally distancing from him. I have always been TOO available, TOO transparent, TOO eager to please. I am taken for granted. After 4 years of saying "I love you" and getting only an "okay" or "thanks" in return, I think it is time to do a 180.
I have to tell you this was key for me, too
What I typically do is tell him often how much I love and appreciate him. I give him as much physical touch as I feel is welcome. I try to spend as much time as possible with him and ge as pleasant a companion as possible. I tell him how much I enjoy his company. As often as possible, I will do little things for him. For example, when he went on a trip and left his car with me, I washed it for him (and didn't mention it). I'll cook "goodies" for him and occasionally full meals. I have written him poems and sent him texts and letters expressing how important he is to me. Sometimes I just feel inspired to go beyond the everyday acknowledgement of how much I value him. He knows I think he is wonderful and gorgeous beyond compare.

I would LOVE to have more time with him. I wish time with me was one of HIS priorities. Our problem is NOT him not feeling important.


You are smart, Lydia. Even when I distanced myself, I called him 'honey' when we did connect, and treated him with the respect and admiration I had for him.
_________________________
sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001

Top
#2196678 - 11/03/11 08:31 PM Re: (NA) Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: JAS2000]
sgctxok Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/01
Posts: 10731
Originally Posted By: JAS2000
Keep_Going, I am kind of feeling like I am at where you are. My H does not seem to understand that you must choose to love someone, it is not some magical feeling that just happens. The odd thing is he knows (and says) he is making a CHOICE to cling to OW and he knows it blocks him from feeling for me but he does not think it is a CHOICE to love me or not. Funny how that works isn't it?


JAS--I agree. I believe, for the most part, love and compatibility are CREATED--by our actions, everyday. What we say and what we do.
_________________________
sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001

Top
#2196681 - 11/03/11 08:34 PM Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: keep_going]
sgctxok Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/01
Posts: 10731
Originally Posted By: keep_going
Here are my thoughts re. Love Illusions related to my R

Love Illusion #1
I have been aware of this concept for months now, and I have really changed my behavior with H to show him that he is my priority #1. I continue choosing to love him, even as I have been finding out about OW, how bad he treats me sometimes and despite all the pressure I get from friends and family to resign, get a lawyer, divorce him and move on.

H just recently admitted he is in love with OW. So following the rationale of Illusion #1, I am not very hopeful about him coming back anymore and this is why: He has CHOSEN to love OW and really makes that R his priority. They both constantly nourish and improve their R, so it becomes stronger every day.

So there is no room for H to choose to love me, no matter how much I have changed, because he has chosen to love her. He is not giving any more water, nourishment or attention to ours.
We both took each other for granted and now he has left and moved on to nourish another R.

In addition, he is not AWARE that he has chosen to love her. He thinks it "just happened" and with that thinking, the believes that his love for me just disappeared and will not ever come back, because it's something that "just happens." frown

Illusion #2:
This is a HUGE factor in our R. We argued ALL THE TIME. I admit that I had A LOT of anger towards H for many years (it doesn't really matter if I had reasons for it or not.) All my life I have resorted to tantrums and anger to get my way. For my H, anger and arguments are a sign of failure (he comes from a broken home and his father was an alcoholic). H now blames the demise of our M on my anger. He describes it as 13 years of abuse. Since he left, I am taking care of my anger issue and have made a lot of progress, but H still believes this was a deal-breaker and does not trust that I will ever be any different, which leads to Illusion #3.

Illusion #3
My H has DEFINITELY convinced himself that I will never change and be in control of my anger. As a matter of fact, he wants a partner that Never gets angry (which is probably impossible). He has told me that OW never argues... My only hope is that with DB, 180s and TIME, I can prove him otherwise. Words right now mean nothing, specially when I have had so many setbacks in the last two months. I KNOW that people can change and ironically, my H used to believe so (his dad stopped drinking), but somehow H doesn't think I can.But I will keep trying and hope this program will help me show him with actions that I can change.

Illusion #4
One of our problems has been that H clams up and does not share his feelings with me. Part of it is my fault - I was so busy being angry that he gave up trying. He felt that he could not share with me because I would get angry or ignore him. Another problem in our communication is that because our R has deteriorated so much, we just assume the worst of each other. With so much arguing, he has resigned to simply avoid conversations that he feels will trigger a fight.
We definitely have diff. ways of communicating - even though we both like to share feelings, I talk a lot and he is very succinct. He Hates when I repeat myself, which I tend to do a lot. He also means what he says and I, as many women, expect him to guess what I really want or mean. I also feel like he doesn't listen to me. He asks me things that we have talked about before (sometimes more than once...) I used to get really upset about this. Now I have accepted it and just take a deep breath and repeat myself. (yet, I don't believe he has noticed this change). H is also goal-oriented when talking and wants to fix problems and offer solutions when I talk about my feelings. I would hate this and get angry. I am now learning that we just simply communicate differently, but I have more work to do with this one. Bottom line - I need to remind myself of our gender differences. look out for triggers and train myself.

Illusion #5
I know H definitely felt unappreciated because of my complaints. He doesn't understand of the need for attention behind nagging. I am working on 180s - where instead of nagging, I show appreciation for the things he does, so he can feel loved. I am also working on not complaining and being more positive about everything. I need to do a better job of phrasing things differently so he doesn't get defensive or feel criticized.




Hi keep--

My heart goes out to you. I know you have what it takes to persevere, to give real love, to work through this. But I don't envy what you are going through. You might kind of liken it to a wayward child, or someone at work who just is off on their own tangent, who can't hear and can't reason. You just have to do things differently to win them over, at the right time.

In the meantime...you are just building your skills yourself.

I admire your ability to work through the steps in this situation.
_________________________
sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001

Top
#2203875 - 12/07/11 06:09 PM Re: TAPE/CD 1 LOVE ILLUSIONS [Re: sgctxok]
angel61 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 1046
Loc: California
I am posting to let you all know that things can change. My H for the longest time (17 months) felt that he married his best friend, and told me many times that he believed he realized that we never had real love in all our lives, that we were living a lie. He fell in love with OW, and he believed that was the real deal.

What could I do? I believed that he had rewritten history, as we really had a great time together throughout our 16 years together before BD.

I told him honestly that I felt that he was infatuated with OW, that it would not last, and that I was not buying it when he said he did not love me.

September this year (15 months after BD) he told me that his feelings for OW were waning, and that I ws probably right that what he felt was only an infatuation. yay. The novelty had worn off, OW refused to have a real relationship with a married man, and he could not also imagine giving up his family and everyting else. But at that point he still felt stuck, because he said he felt miserable with the idea that he will be in a loveless marriage for the rest of his life. At this point our sex life was also non-existent.

Fast forward to November - he agreed to go to Retrouvaille with me. This was a huge turning point. He started to accept that love is a decision. Just this weekend, he told me that he realized that although we did not have romantic love, we did have love in our marriage - a true love that cared for eachother. He made the decision to keep on loving me and to commit to our M finally.

What did I do? I DB'd - I followed what people posted to me, I let go of the anger , as much as I could, I tried to keep the road home paved and smooth, I just kept on loving him and forgiving and giving him space.... and most importantly, time. I believe that time is essential - it takes time for them to realize, for the "hollywood stereotype love"- that is what my H calls it - to fizzle out.

WE are now actively working on love as a verb - love as a action. being kind, patient, forgiving, giving....

My advice - most of all, be patient. Keep_going, I think you are on the right track. JAS, you would be surprised at how many people believe that love is a feeling, not something that could be a choice. Honestly, I did not know that too. The "Love Dare" helped me realize that.
_________________________
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18
Bomb: 6/26/10
EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ???
11/5/11 Retrouvaille
Finally piecing....
Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  sgctxok 

Save Your Marriage! Schedule Online

Schedule a phone consultation with a Divorce Busting® Coach! Call: 800-664-2435 or 303-444-7004