Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 864
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 864
I started a new thread and posted the first one. If anyone has an idea how to maintain the formatting from the pdf file when I paste it onto the blog please let me know. If I have to edit every one it will take me a lot longer to post.

GAG

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Rock bottom thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2153631&#Post2153631

I am adding this link to the current thread on this subject as anyone reading this in the future might also want to read this.


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,050
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,050
This is a very informative thread.

There were times I have started to doubt that my H is in MLC, thinking it may have been more of an "affair fog", but reading all of your posts made me think again. The control thing especially - I almost laughed, just the other day my H told me I had controlled him all his life, and he went back to a time when I was not even his GF yet! So I told him "how could I do that? I wasn't even your GF yet at that time?" and his reply? "because you were always around!" Yeah, right. My being around made him fall for me.....LOL!

I myself wonder where my H is. I am 10 months post bomb. EA was officially November 26, 2010, but H is still in contact with OW by phone and text, they did see each other for lunch during a conference.

H is still at home, and actually has verbalized to me that he is not leaving, but that he does not love me, but feels that he can accept the situation as it is (???). We started having more communication, feeling more comfortable since last month. He even has started showing some affection to me, especially for mothers day, getting me a gift.

He got mad at me on Monday because he caught me snooping and it brought out the monster in him (I hate this life, I want my freedom, lets be separated but remain married).

I don't know of any issues from childhod, but he is not fond of his mother, who is very controlling. She had a nervous breakdown when he was around 10 or 11.

He himself is very controlling, to the point of deciding what i get to eat. Everyone knows this. But I don't really care, I usually have to decide and lead at work and in my own family, so when i go home I am just glad to let him take the reins. But with his MLC, his controlling has gotten to the point that he even asks us not to cross him as it makes him so angry. I cannot even suggest something at times. Only if it concerns our D12 is he open. If he needs my input he will ask me. I am actually trying to think back to when he started being this controlling as this might be the signal that his MLC had started. I think it was around 6 months prior to the bomb - January or February of 2010.

One thing though is he is still an amazing dad, all throughout this time. A few times he did slack off a little, but never more than a week or so at a time.

Last time I did a temperature check he was still in replay.


Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18
Bomb: 6/26/10
EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ???
11/5/11 Retrouvaille
Finally piecing....
Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
HB and I have been having some conversation and
I thought I would post this here as it may help some others with some questions that I have had.

Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing

Hello Cadet, smile

I wondered when you were going to really get started on the questions. LOL!! smile You're picking my brain and that is quite all right. smile

Originally Posted By: Cadet
HB

As long as you seem to be on a roll I have a question.
You speak of the LBS being a stanchion(pillar) for the LBS.

Early in the crisis this means to Let GO, detach.
Later in the crisis enforcing boundaries.

You were writing yesterday that during your transition you were back in your mind as a 4 or 5 year old and your husband gave you a HUG.(Was he acting as a stanchion here?) (I believe he was, and I have another thought here too but I will save it until after you answer)
I know that you say that your son acted as your pillar.
What did he do that makes you say that?


My husband was acting as a pillar of strength during the particular time you're speaking of, OP; it was to show me that he really was there for me when I needed him; and that he could and would help me; all I needed to do was ASK him. This was the lesson the Lord was teaching me; that in spite of all that had happened between us, he was and is most capable of being there for me.
This was something I had to see; as I was drawing away from him, and the distance was growing at that point.
In order to close the distance between, I had to open up about an issue that was very painful, and though, it wasn't the most painful one I'd had to face; it was one that I had to open up with him about; in order to see, that he would accept me, and STILL love me for me; regardless of my imperfections, past damage, and this event that had happened to me that was clearly beyond my own control. Much the same as I had helped him during his first time within his initial bout of crisis.

I was near the end of my issues, and this helped us begin to bond together again in another way, another aspect.

While my husband was able to act in this way in this particular circumstance....at other and earlier times he was clearly unable, this is where my son took over for him.

I, just like so many people in Transition/Crisis had a very skewed view of my husband; he was the enemy, he was to blame for the pain I was in, he was also one of my issues to resolve and settle within myself. I had issues from childhood, issues from early adulthood, and issues from my marriage, issues that surrounded my husband in a more personal way, simply because, like everything else, my husband was part of my PAST.

Our son was instrumental in helping to keep the marriage together, keeping me there with his dad; and keeping me from running away, as I wanted so badly to do.

I can't tell you how many times Son would go get the pictures, sit down, and leaf through various photo albums, and talk of happier times we'd had long before his crisis, and the current Transition I was going through. Son, would gently remind me that I might as well keep what I had, because I could do so much worse. He would also speak of his dad as one who really did still love me, in spite of all I was doing to push him away, although he had a funny way of showing it at times.

Son didn't pressure me at all; just listened as I spewed my angry and miserable thoughts onto his broad shoulders; and he validated me, how I felt, threw up a "mirror" to me when I was receptive to one; and spoke of forgiveness many times.

He also reminded me that his dad and I had come so very far within these harder times of our lives; and I needed to remember that what was happening to me WOULD end; and we would be happy down the road, even if I could not see it now.
He spoke a various combination of things designed to help build my self confidence, self esteem, and to help me to see my self worth. He was a voice of calm within a world of troubled times and waters, and I was often "drawn" to him in a much different way than I was so often "drawn" to my husband.
Simply put, Son really did become my friend during that time, and I attached to him for a period of time, in a very good way. I needed the strength he offered and he often 'carried' me emotionally when I couldn't carry myself in that aspect.

He would always tell me that it was up to me; in a very nonjudgemental fashion; but he never spoke of what would/could happen if I chose to walk away. This wasn't needed.

I already knew somewhere within my heart what this would be; yet, once again, this was something I had to figure out on my own, just as my husband had had to, all that time before.

I faced the SAME decisions in regards to job, marriage, and life. I had to figure out that all things I needed had to be found WITHIN myself. I really did learn these things all over again, plus some added aspects to help me further within my journey.

Within the deepest times of my Depression, our son spoke with me many times on various issues/problems; encouraging me, giving me love and care, being my friend, accepting me for who I was, and no matter what I said, he stood firmly with and by me; giving me something to hold onto; which was hope, and and a renewed faith, and letting me know that I really was "someone", not just a "nobody" who'd grown up, gotten married, had a child, and hadn't done much of anything else. I certainly couldn't see all I had done within various people's lives; saying that I had never really done anything; people just THOUGHT I had. I griped that people had leaned on me too much; for so little; and I was tired of carrying so much; that I wanted to just be left alone, and that I wanted to just die.

He said that wasn't all there was to it, said I wasn't clearly seeing that I had accomplished so much more within my life, than I thought I had; said that I still had work to do even after this was finished. He also said that if I didn't continue my work, I would fail myself and the Lord; to just look at this time as a 'stepping stone' into something better.

These things were said to me, even as I was deeply focused on my failures; for every negative thing I said, he had a positive thing to counter it. Patiently, and slowly, he led me along the path toward the next stage of my journey; and that was a change in my perspective.

Rock bottom was really hard for me; I sat on the bottom looking up, and did, indeed, see my Son's face at the top of the well, letting me know that I could come back anytime I chose...I just had to "do it", and get it over with.

I had to hit the bottom, and HARD, in order to begin to reach this change in my perspective.

Son did pretty much what I had done with my husband several years before. Son didn't make me feel "defective" or "broken", he simply pointed out various aspects of truth, repeated some things I had said before, but I never realized that until much later on, long after I processed each conversation Son and I had.

I don't doubt that Son spent a great deal of time in prayer for me; but, OP, the Lord spoke through him a great many times, as I recognized wisdom that NO teenager is supposed to have/contain within being spoken from our Son. I did my share of arguing, but Son wouldn't argue, he just stated various truths, etc. to counter my arguments.

***As a side note, our son has learned the same lessons/aspects we did; and has them down to a science. He learned these by my lived example, and he asked a great many questions within his dad's first crisis; learned even more within the secondary bout. I didn't force these on him, not at all; just led and taught him as I went. The Lord blessed our Son beyond measure because of his willing obedience in the helping of both his dad and me at various times within the past 9 years. He is no longer needed in this aspect; and so, his memories have begun to fade within various aspects; as they are supposed to. He remembers the lessons, and he will always be able to recognize the crisis/transition within others, and that is all he needs to know, anymore. Any kind of healing he'd needed within himself is almost complete. ****

On the other hand, my husband didn't understand, he really didn't....he was busy grabbing onto me in fear; he was struggling within his secondary bout of crisis; and I was busy staying beyond his reach. I was trucking full time, and so, my space to process myself was gotten in that way. When I first turned on him, it frightened him so badly, he did ALL of the things one is NOT supposed to do...the more he clutched, the further I backed away. I was subjected to intense amounts of pressure to "return" to the person I had once been; as what I had temporarily "become", to my husband, was much WORSE than the changes I had made during the prior several years.
He was terrified that I would actually leave him, and my attitude left much to be desired; as it LOOKED like I had one foot OUT the door.

In deep anger, and sometimes rage filled comments, I kept telling him to leave me alone, so I could work on this; and he kept fighting me on it; pressuring me every chance he got. In moments of clarity, that were few and far in between, I would explain I was going through The Change; as I knew he would understand that, he'd already seen the hot flashes I was experiencing; but then he'd ask me "How long before you finish?" I wouldn't have an answer for that; but he didn't understand WHY I didn't have a clear answer, it would be over when it was over, that was ALL I knew...of course he didn't understand, and at various times, neither did I. His mind was swiss cheese, mine was swiss cheese; and two swiss cheese minds make for double the confusion.

And because of his swiss cheese thinking; he was UNABLE to function as he normally would have been called upon to do for me....this was where Son stepped in and filled in this gap for me; and he helped his dad some, too, during that time.

Our physical and emotional relationship suffered deeply it was bound to, considering.

That final issue of mine represented a turning point in our relationship..things got better after that...and later, I broke down, and asked him to forgive me, as I saw clearly the damage I had done with my attitude. More came as time went on, until I saw it all in a more complete way.



Originally Posted By: Cadet
Anyways my question is does acting as this stanchion change throughout the different stages of MLC?
If so how?


The LBS acts as a stanchion in the way that one would "hold the fort" in the beginning; all responsibility is taken upon their shoulders. As time goes on, the MLC'er goes back and forth, seeing the LBS as stronger than they are; and they are drawn to that strength...this becomes the "lighthouse" that had stood firmly during the crisis; never moving, yet, always changing.

When the MLC'er returns broken, and needing help, the LBS is called upon to bring forth the necessary accountabilities that are necessary in order to lead the way for the MLC'er to begin pulling themselves back together...this takes a lot of strength to accomplish, and this is most often where a breakdown can occur, because the LBS allows resentment, and pent up anger to influence them to give up. This is such a long, hard road to walk.

The true meaning of Marriage is all about being willing to keep sticking it out; no matter what happens; through better OR for worse; and I have found that this crisis is the worst it will ever become.

Love is simply not enough; commitment is the "glue" that holds the relationship together when the love is gone; and born out of that deep commitment is a deeper strength that comes from a well within; God replenishes this on a daily basis.

Until the MLC'er clearly shows signs of standing on their own, beginning to take back the mantle of responsibility once again, the LBS will continue to function as the "strength" the stanchion that holds everything together.

There are no real "clear" signs when this change occurs; but the LBS, who knows the MLC'er better than anyone can judge these for themselves. Just as I was able to see when my husband began to change his ways of doing/relating, and as I saw him begin to take clear responsibility again; plus some added aspects I hadn't seen before, the LBS will also see this.

Once I saw these in my husband, I began backing down into the role of being a "helpmeet" or in plain english, "help mate" for him. We balance each others strengths and weaknesses between ourselves, as there will always be things I can do that he can't, things he can do that I can't.

Originally Posted By: Cadet
And if you care to illiterate about being a stanchion. ( OK I asked more than one question).


As the stanchion, I was charged with the MOST and the GREATER responsibility; simply because I knew and was aware of what was happening, even if he didn't. My husband was going through a Mid Life CRISIS; and wasn't clear headed in his thinking...not an excuse for bad behavior, just the way it was.

He needed me to stand FOR him, within this gap; simply because he was unable to stand for himself...and this was a daunting task that I took on and shouldered without understanding fully what I was in for.

Some things you're not meant to understand before you take them on; if you did, you would take the opposite way...and while God gives one a choice at all times, He won't always lay out the complete path you're to take; partly because of lack of understanding on your part, and partly because He knows that if He doesn't give you everything; you'll gain even more and a better understanding from the "bit and piece" way He dealt with me.

I could NOT have taken it all in at one time; I was having enough trouble understanding the beginning; much less what had to be done within myself; in order to help him more effectively.
I got very little in the beginning; but more came as time went on, and my understanding grew consistently right into what it is now.

Yes, I got very angry as each 'detour', 'roadblock', 'obstacle' was thrown up, and halted progress; whether it was because of him or even because of me. But, as I worked PAST the anger I felt, I learned to actually SEE the wisdom of continuing on, I had so much to do and finish within myself. Plus, I could look back and see just how far we BOTH had come to get to this next place we found ourselves in.

It was ALL good, and so, I continued on the path/course set to reach the destination I was bound for; knowing that God allows things to happen for a reason; and even if I didn't know what part of these reasons were, I knew He wasn't going to leave me hanging high and dry.

I had faith He would take care of me; and I also knew without my total cooperation; our marriage wouldn't make it; He had made that abundantly clear.

Had I known all that I know now, in regards to the length of time involved, I might have gone ahead and walked away, He knew this of me; therefore He held back pertinent information until it was needed.....this is an aspect that is present in EVERY human being; I don't CARE WHO you are.
And this aspect MUST be overcome to endure the long running aspects of the crisis; as this crisis IS tied to BOTH people; NOT just one.

When things were slow, or at a dead stop, I immediately checked myself first to see what I was doing to hold it up; then I would check on him. Sometimes it was me, sometimes it was him...but it was always one of us who had an aspect to get past and learn from, in order to move forward.

Look unto the Lord for ALL you need, He's the one who provides these types of answers; whether He uses someone to help you learn, or directs you Himself..

It was so often like a mule with a carrot on a stick, that I was drawn forward, led forward, and sometimes driven forward; one step at a time, one day at a time to the end I eventually came to.

One thing I DO know for sure; had I gone ahead and walked away so long ago, my life would not have been half as blessed as it is now, I would not be here now; and I would be one miserable human being. As it stands, I and my family are doing very well, intact and together. Life throws its share of curve balls at me daily; I just field and throw them back into the Infield to be returned to "home plate". smile

Knowledge is most certainly power, and it was important to get me to a place of learning steadily as quickly as possible, so I could get to the task of growing and changing within myself...ONLY THEN, was I able to begin becoming stronger for him.

The more I learned about the crisis itself, the more I realized that I could NOT just walk away and leave him like that. I bore a responsibility to stay and HELP him; even though I knew it might mean he would walk away anyway. There came a time when I sincerely wanted him to be happy EVEN if it wasn't with me.

I gave all I had, and then some, to this cause; and I was determined that if this was possible, I would stay married to this man; but only if he still wanted me after all was said and done.

I came to various conclusions, realizations, and aspects on my own, with the help of the Lord who inspired me to write all I did back in 2002. I knew quite a bit, even then, but there was more to learn, and learn the rest of it, I did.

There were times I wanted to kill him, other times, I could have horse whipped him, still other times I prayed until I couldn't pray anymore. I stayed exhausted from the immense amounts of sheer strength, will power, and grit it took to just stay in there with him; helping him IN SPITE of all the spew he threw at me, the rebellion he faced me with, and the pressure I stayed under to walk my own journey, learn my lessons, face all that I was set to face within myself.

But I would NOT quit; it wasn't in me to quit or give up. I said a whole lot of things to the Lord about wanting to quit, walk away, all during that time, only to have Him tell me again that it was up to me; and then, show me the outcome again. smile

But, other than the short period of time just after the first two BDs, where the Lord intervened with me because I was reacting in "fight or flight"; I did NOT see leaving, or kicking him out as options to entertain within myself.

The fact that I STOOD throughout and hung in there with him the WHOLE time is illustration enough of what a stanchion is all about. It is one who stands firmly, even as the storm rages all around and in between the couple.

The stanchion becomes most able; through having learned to use the various tools provided from God and so many others who have gone this way before, to withstand all of the spew, the blaming, the rebellion, develops endurance, fortitude, perseverance, patience, grit, determination; not to mention learning about love as the Bible describes it; yet, on the other hand, ALSO learns to put into practice the necessary boundaries that are called for, tough love practices, and is unmoving, even as the MLC'er threatens their worst during the times of necessary accountability.

Most importantly, the stanchion learns to know that it's best to let go completely, to step back allowing God in this process to handle a situation that is clearly beyond the stanchion's control...this aspect requires the MOST strength of all, and is the HARDEST to accomplish.

Originally Posted By: Cadet
Thanks as always for your time and patience.


You're very welcome. smile


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 330
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 330
This thread has given me some new insight. So glad I opened it tonight. I read every page all evening. It has been 2 months since h dropped the bomb. I have not u hitched my wagon from him...i am still standing at the oven door watching him bake. Despite some things I am doing to gal, i still find myself bouncing back and forth from grief and intense crying spells/ despair, to anger at him, then sudden moments of peace and strength, except those are fleeting.

I admit, although he has not left yet, i have been holding on too tightly. This past week i did a 180 by planning two outings with our daughter. A neighbor drove me to town (i have ms). He was surprised to come home from work only to see us headinf out the door. After the second outing he started talking to me more, rather than being quiet as he has been.

He needs space and more alone time. He does not need my criticism that he hasnt paid attention to his daughter. By reading here i am starting to understand his feelings. Thank heavens for the mlc'r that has shared here.

It has been so hard to detach these past few days. I no longer to hug him unless he wants it first. I stopped saying i love you unless he does first. I wonder if he is starting to feel me pull back a little. Because when i do, he talks more...makes it a point to say i love you more often.

I need to stop analyzing his every word and action. I need to stop waking up each day scared out of my wits that this may be the day he goes.

I'm worried that if i detach too much, he will see this as many diff things. It could sabatoge everything. But i am pulling back horrible as it feels.

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
A lurker posting at last. Wonka, if you are still there -- what do you think of this whole Stirring the Pot notion? It seems from your posts (I have read many) that you were in a fog and no fork, knife or spoon could have stirred you out of it. Once the fog lifting, stirring was not needed. Is this accurate or do you believe in stirring the pot? I am content to wait on my in-house MLC'er as long as it take, but the one thing that is unbearable to me is my 9-year old son is totally unraveling, and I don't know how to deal with it. So though I never say anything at all to my husband relating to our relationship, I keep thinking about stirring the pot in regards to my son. Mostly I conclude that it would be pointless, but after a few hours of my son calling me a b-tch and an a--hole, I start to lose my resolve. I usually run-don't-walk to the church at the corner to cry for a while and get it together to return.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: Gerda
what do you think of this whole Stirring the Pot notion?

Stirring the pot is only suppose to be if they are stuck in withdrawal stage?

Does that apply to you?

TBH I must admit that my view since this thread started has changed.
What I thought was stuck in withdrawal was more escape and avoid.
MLC takes forever and don't ever under estimate it!


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 557
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 557
Hi I'm reading this thread and getting a lot out of it.

I too was a lurker until a couple of weeks ago. I have my story posted on the New comers page. I think though posters here understand how long a MLC lasts and that it is different from the typical WAS.

My H has been in a MLC for at least 3 yrs.


Me 52 H 44
T9 M 5
BD 12/11 H
split 8/12
OW moved in 12/12
OW gone for good 6/14
We get closer again 9/14
SD 13 Me 4 Grown





Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
Yes, finding that out is so unbelievably hard. The time it takes, I mean. I mostly don't watch the pot, but he lives with us and sends so many mixed signals that it's hard not to start watching it. On my birthday he left me a beautiful gift, with the table all spread out gorgeously, and a note addressed "to my dearest wife," and it was all about how watching me face a "really hard thing" this year (I assume he means breast cancer and not his MLC) made me the "quintessence of good character." But most of the time he can barely look me in the face, still spewing if I open up even the tiniest door.

And that is interesting that your views have changed. It's funny to have "Cadet" writing to me since I have been reading your posts for so long! And I guess that this was an old one. Do you mean that what we take for withdrawal generally isn't, that we start stirring when they aren't ready?

And can you direct me to a thread that explains "escape and avoid"?

Though sometimes I think reading less is better, just sticking to prayer and patience and making the best life i can for me and my kids. In my case, because we own a business together, I have to navigate his wrecking ball at work too!

Last edited by Gerda; 01/12/15 05:05 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard