A Divorce Busting® Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out. Go to the new Divorce Busting® Store where you can sign up for Divorce Busting® Coaching and purchase Michele's Audios, Videos and eBooks that you can immediately download. Start taking the steps that will help you get your marriage back on track right away.
Page 12 of 32 < 1 2 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 31 32 >
Topic Options
#2065457 - 08/28/10 03:19 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: soleil]
AJM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 3063
Soleil, you are SOOOOO right. I am better off without her. I never gave myself permission to think so until recently. I never gave myself permission to let go - until recently. I have and as I do I see things so very differently.

I think you are correct as well that they cannot allow themselves to see things as their fault. Eventually they may, but it may be catastrophic when they do. My stbx once told me that she was angry at me for whole time she moved out. I suspect she still is although she tries to say she is no longer angry. She was angry at me because she left? WTF? I get it now. She couldn't be angry at herself. She needed to be angry to keep gone. But she couldn't let go of the other things in her life at the same time. So she just gave up on the marriage and continued down the path she started telling herself all the lies (it'll be for the best. This is what is best for me. You'll be better off. You can do better than me. The kids will be fine. It'll be better for the kids if they see us apart and happy than together and miserable. I never loved you. and so on). Bullshit and lies, but that's part of it I suppose.

She wanted to date other people. That's a deal breaker for me. She just wouldn't leave to do it. But somehow she had to justify to herself her actions and being mean and nasty and blaming me seemed to be the way for her. I get that now. I see the pattern.

That is not the life for me. I see from watching others around me and on this board that it is not likely that if she did try to come back that things would work. Too much damage and selfishiness. I can't live with that. I can't trust her or the myriad of lies I've heard. At this point, I wouldn't recognize the truth from her if it bit me smile

I get it. It's been over, but it's also that I had to give myself permission to let it be over for me. Personally. Stop hoping for that fairy tale ending. I don't any longer. I look forward to being on my own with my kids. And she more and more is not spending much time with the kids which means I get what I look forward to more and more. I'm ok with that. I'm working on having peace with the whole thing and not getting angry when I see stbx's number pop up on my phone or her name in my email. Angry isn't the right word really. Traumatized might be a bit better.

Thanks for talking it out with me. I can answer the question now: I did want her back even though I had some conditions. I don't think they were unreasonable conditions either. She chose otherwise and that's how it is. But I deserve better and will get better. It is easy to do when I'm ready.

For now, peace. That's my goal. And I'm getting closer each day. With my own decisions and my own life. I like me. I'm a good person, a good dad, and a good husband. I always have been. I intend to continue that and live my life in a way that I can look back and have no regrets and be at peace with my God and myself. Certainly not perfect, but each step I take is in support of those goals. Always have been. My doubt is washed away. I was tested and I am happy with the results regarding me.

Like I said. I am sure there will be days when I am sad. When I am angry. When I am reminded of the life taken. But that will not define me and really never has. I can see that now as well.

Peace to you and everyone here.

Thought for today: Life - be in it!
_________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

Top
#2066935 - 08/31/10 02:21 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: AJM]
AJM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 3063
Journaling:
Fascinating. I've been reading the unfolding story of a WAW on another forum. I'm struck by the pain and difficulty and how many people can relate. I'm struck by how it doesn't have to be that way. How sharing your feelings can be difficult but that it is a two way street. How until you realize that, you cannot succeed in any relationship. You will continue to bounce around.

My mc remarked once how different STBX and I are in her cases. Very rare she mused. Said things were good for so many years but this can happen. Is it an awakening? Or something else? Nobody can say.

One thing is certain - there are multiple sides. Not all of the players are willing to see the other side which means the relationship is doomed.

<Sigh> I look back and look for reasons. I know why. It is because I do not want to hate her. I do not want to be bitter. I do not want to look back at the various confusing stories I've been handed, and think that I was used because she was scared. I don't want to look back at the childish behavior and get angry. I do not want that burden. I want to forgive.

I realize it takes two. I realize none of us is perfect. I realize that if either wants to leave, that is that person's prerogative. It hurts all involved just the same. Both sides. And I try to make sure I keep that in my mind to understand so that I won't become bitter.

I want to forgive. It comes in fits and starts.

My MC once commented that the issues were mostly hers and therefore you can change, but it won't change the situation. You have things to work on, yes, but most of them are her issues to deal with. You will have to be patient. That likely hurt the most of any of this. To be so without the means to change anything around me. So powerless. So humbled.

I see now that the humility will be helpful to me. All throughout my life, whenever humility comes, it has been helpful. I can look back and see that. I've hated it each time but always has good come from it.

It's hard to see it this time in regards to my family. It's hard to understand how somebody you trusted decides to hurt you then leave. It's hard to understand how somebody you trusted didn't communicate and how you thought they did. It's hard to see how somebody you loved so deeply decided that they were done with little warning. How stresses of life can affect people. How somebody that you loved so deeply could find somebody else. How they can blame you for the problems that caused them to leave and then want to be friends? (that is so one sided that it isn't even funny. That's as selfish as it gets from what I can see.)

Perhaps it is in how one defines "friends" ?

Hard to understand what is real and what is not some days in that past. One thing that is certain - she does not want to be married to me any longer. At some point, I no longer wanted to be married to her either after she emotionally left. To be honest, I really don't want to know the mean and vicious person she has become. The control freak she has always been. I don't want to know somebody who only blames somebody else for whatever problems are in their life.

I don't want to be bitter. I want to forgive. I also do not want to hurt her emotionally. But it is hard to understand how suddenly I became the enemy and my faults were so magnified that I almost hated me smile (until I could find reality again).

Those are my thoughts. Other than that, I am doing very well. Had a great evening and a great morning.
_________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

Top
#2066945 - 08/31/10 02:48 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: AJM]
kat727 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 10007
Loc: Kansas
I like to get to the root of things. I wanted to know why. What happened. I may never really know and I have to be okay with that or drive myself nuts. It took along time to get to where I am. We aren't friends but we do talk about the kids and things that will effect them.

I never told him that I forgave him but said it to myself like a mantra. I had to set myself free. We still have issues and I do occasionally take a step back but he really isn't my problem anymore. You will get there too. I promise.

kat
_________________________
M-50(and fabulous!)
S22, S19, D15, D14
Don't judge every day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant. Robert Louis Stevenson

Top
#2067060 - 08/31/10 05:18 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: kat727]
AJM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 3063
I appreciate that Kat. I think part of it is getting to the point of actually letting go. I think what is happening is that it is not all at once but rather in "steps". Letting go of the garbage. Allowing myself to realize I am better off without and not feeling guilty for knowing that. Allowing myself that I will no longer be held back by having to walk on eggshells.

I do talk about things pertaining to the kids. I flat out refuse to let them get caught in the middle of that. At any expense including (realistically) my own.

It gets confusing sometimes. Keeping sanity in my hands. Today has been one of those days. I'm tired. I can no longer hang on to to the memories and dreams. At least not for now. I need rest. I need solace. I. That still seems strange but I do like me and it is not as strange as it once was. Becoming much more familiar.

I like the man I see in the mirror. I like whom I have become. Me only with some adjustments. smile

Thanks for setting me straight....
_________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

Top
#2067322 - 08/31/10 11:40 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: AJM]
AJM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 3063
Journaling:
Sometimes reading the boards can send me for a loop. I sometimes lose my perspective. I go back time and again and re-read some of the posts. I try to help others as they go through their own journey. I try to ask questions to better see the picture somebody posts. Many people do post their side of the story (naturally, right?) and it can skew what suggestions we might give.
I've been guilty of that. I've seen many that are as well. The boards can help or they can hinder. But either way I am very thankful for the boards. I've learned a great deal. About me, about life, about my family. Things have really come alive for me, where before they were becoming shades of gray (or is that grey?)
I see things very differently this afternoon. I've been soul searching as read the stories of walk away spouses. I'm struck by the common theme: he needs to change. I waited and waited and he never did, so I left. I strongly encourage anyone thinking like that to reconsider who they are and why they expect others to change. Why they expect others to bring them happiness when they cannot be happy themselves. When they do not know how to get the love they want without resorting to leaving or bullying or otherwise using guerilla tactics.
To those that encourage that, please consider the damage you are suggesting; perhaps there is a different way? I don't know the answer to that. I do know that if people cannot live with something, they change. Makes sense. But to inflict that change on another to get what you want? What would you do if you got that change via those tactics? Would it matter to you? Would you trust it? Would you feel in control? Would you like that?

I'm not saying people don't need to change and of course I'm not condoning abusive behavior. But I am questioning those tactics as a way to get what you want.

My STBX tried that with me. I see that. She later came back and has apologized and has done a myriad of other things to spread the confusion that rages in her. I almost believed some of it. It hurt. I do see the power struggle though.

I know that I cannot live as a controlled human being. Never could. I've seen her even recently try to control me like a teen would control their parents. A spoiled teen that is. That's not for me and I am glad to not be part of that. Sick. Sad.

I get it now. One more piece of the puzzle: she will continue to try and control me as a way to try and get what she wants. That will eventually die down, but it will be a while.

One more brick in the wall. I'll go back for more.

See, I realize that when she said she couldn't figure it out because she was angry about how I was with the kids (later went back and told me 'we're just different') I see that as controlling. Attempting to. I bristle at that from anyone. It's who I am.

Don't get me wrong, I see the MLC. I see that she was looking for a reason to leave me and the kids. I am proud that I stuck with it and tried very hard to reconnect her with the kids. I will never be sorry about that. I feel proud I tried to make the marriage work. Heck, I'm glad I cried and suffered like I did. It reminds me that it was all worth it and that I did not waste my time for the last 20 years in a hateful relationship. I get that.

I also understand more now about why the MC/IC said it was mostly her issues and not mine. I see the childhood issues. The personality problems. I see the ugly where before it was irrelevant to me (I'm not blind).
I realize that although my initial reaction was placating, any reaction or non-reaction would not have changed things. Perhaps to not almost kill me, but otherwise....

More later. Tired now.
I have a big day tomorrow. And still some root beer floats with the kids. smile
_________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

Top
#2067520 - 09/01/10 12:53 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: AJM]
AJM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 3063
Journaling:
I spoke to my neighbor last night. One of the things I haven't really done 100% is to let go. To let go the rest of the way. Part of that is guilt for letting go. Silly huh? Only not really. I get that it is somewhat natural to be that way.

What was catching me up was figuring out if this was a temporary thing (insanity?) or if this was going to be permanent. I had to see this through to know. I still can't be sure of her feelings, but I can be sure of mine. I can be sure that it would not work out if she did want to come back. I don't think she will want to, but I can see that our relationship is completely obliterated.

The control thing was one part of it. I cannot be controlled by another. I will not accept that. It's part of what changed in the relationship in the early part - her trying to control me even more than I deem healthy. Then things got wobbly.

I was asking my neighbor how long it was before she gave herself permission to let go the rest of the way. It was helpful to have the discussion.

I see more clearly now: this wasn't just confusion over feelings. This was pure anger and trying to hurt me while trying to control me and getting me to divorce her. Like watching jekyl and hyde much of the time. "Leave me before I hurt you" "shut up and take it!!!!" etc.

The selfishness is not something I can live with. The self-absorbed "look at me, aren't I cool" and low self-esteem person she is, is not something I can live with.

In short, it's an abusive relationship and I refuse to be treated that way.

Still, I was hoping it was a temporary thing and that one day, I would wake up and my fairy tale would come true. It won't.

Although as my MC said, we were a rare couple for her to see, I see now that it is over and just waiting for me to put the final stake in the heart. Funny thing is, I feel some guilt. I also have some resentment that she wants me to be the one to end the marriage and doesn't have the courage to do it officially. I find it cowardly that she wants out and would not execute the divorce proceedings. That she wanted me to be the bad guy in this. That she wanted to be the wounded spouse (see? Look how he treats me. He did x...) Disgusts me. Literally.

So today my focus is to overcome that guilty feeling and let go of the relationship the rest of the way and be at peace with that. Thought I had, but it seems there is more distance to go. I suspect that will be the case for a while though.

One more brick in the wall.

Peace!
_________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

Top
#2067632 - 09/01/10 03:20 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: AJM]
soleil Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2372
AJ, you wrote: One thing is certain - there are multiple sides. Not all of the players are willing to see the other side which means the relationship is doomed.

And I think that's true. When one person isn't willing to be empathetic to the other person's needs/concerns, then where do you go from there. It's like a "boundary resistant" spouse. How can one deal with that?

The guilt & resentment is what a lot of us feel but know that you did not choose to end your M, you were not the one who wanted to date other people. That was her choice.

As you know, I am the one who moved out of my home. You mentioned "change." I was waiting and hoping for H to change. I kept telling him over and over again to go to MC with me and he would not do it, would see me crying and walk right past me, was packing up stuff in boxes a few days before I left, took and hid my wed. rings. I was so lost. Daggers in my heart. So I removed myself from living in an environment that wasn't working for me and I told him, let's work this out. But he said there was no way, that he couldn't see how, how MC would not benefit us. So not all those who leave don't want to try but I DO firmly believe with your statement that if 1 person can't even empathize w/ the other person, refuses to see things from their POV, then that is where things get clouded. From now on I will not seek out any type of R, friendship or acquaintance that is laking in empathy. The cost is too high.

Know that you were willing to work on your M and she was not. You have nothing to feel bad about. You tried.

Top
#2067919 - 09/01/10 09:06 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: soleil]
AJM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 3063
Thank you Soleil. You are correct that I did try. Looking back, she quit prior to the bomb. I can see it and now I can understand some of the other behaviors in that light. I do not know why and will not likely know. But I do know that I tried. I do know that I did the right thing protecting the kids and helping them to reconnect with her. Helping her through the worst of her depression and to reconnect with her children. I do know I did the right thing and I have no regrets at all.

No, I see that the issue was not as much mine as it was hers as much as I did not want to believe that. My instinct was to try and save the marriage, my family and her and to do that I tried what I knew. I changed what I felt I could about me. I don't have any regrets.

I realize that she came up with reasons as it suited her and finally settled on one that she felt would "stick". It was about the only thing we ever really disagreed about. That's one reason the MC thought we were so unique in her experience. I often joke with friends that if we met on Match or similar we'd hit 19 out of 20 compatability marks. We laugh at the same stuff, have similar political and child-rearing values. We have similar money values. I'm less materialistic but whatever.

Just the same it is over. She treated me with such disrespect that any human should not have to endure for any reason. I had to know if this was the new her or just a temporary blip on the timeline. Did she blow a sprocket or is this the new her?

I can see this is her. That is why she reminds of my somebody I once knew and loved very deeply.

But I can see that I cannot let the monster she has become anywhere near me. I say monster, but many of you might like her if you met her and didn't know anything about her. I can tell you that she is using her new friends in ways that any cruel dictator in history would cringe at. It's ugly. I don't ask or watch, but my kids bring things up that cause me to piece it together. I've gotten to the point I ask them to stop talking about their mom's friends. Politely. After they have said a few things and only if they won't allow me to change the subject. It's her life and her choices.

I'll never know why she walked away from me, from her family, from her God. I'll never know why she blamed me or why she spent so much time and effort looking for a reason to leave. I don't know. I don't know why she stayed angry at me for so long or why it looked like she had to try so hard to do it. It seemed to require so much effort. I'm guessing. I don't know why she blamed me and was angry at me yet wanted to be "friends". Or what the definition of friends even means to her. From what I've seen of how she treats her friends, I don't think I want to be a friend of hers even.

I've gone through the doubts about myself. In my spare time (meaning when I wasn't bailing water out of the sinking boat or ensuring I could breathe) I searched every nook and cranny of my being with the brightest lights I could find. I know I am not the cause of the divorce. I am not the cause of the pain. I know I have paid the price of somebody else's sins. I don't know who those people or person is. That is ok. I didn't get married for just the good times. I volunteered for this ride, knew the risks, and knew I could get off at any time.

What has been the most difficult is knowing if I was getting off too early. Were we just around the corner from turning a corner. I no longer believe she is anything but what she is now. Not that she won't change. But that our marriage is over. That it was destroyed beyond repair long before I acknowledged it. I know that when she said she was confused that I may have acted differently if it were not for the comments about her wanting to date. But I did not do those things anyway. I have my self-esteem intact. I am not helpless and I have not been helpless. I was ruled by my comittments. I take them very seriously and assumed she did. Perhaps she did and that may be why I saw so much guilt. Why she told me that I can do better than her. That she tried to make me jealous.

But really it is more complex than that as well. She isn't right in the head. At least around me she is not. I have no desire to hurt anyone and if my presence is a problem, then we can fix that. We have. I like me. And I'll be happier than I am now. I am happy, but I will be...content once again. Good days keep coming and more will be here. I can see that.

I have no regrets. I do not think I would have done anything differently than I did at any point in time. I cannot go back to a relationship with her. The pain is too deep and the mistrust too strong. Her irrational (to me) fears are too much for me to be around. They are confusing.

Others may have called it a MLC. I think it's more than that.

I wish her the best of luck in her new life. I hope she likes her. I hope she loves herself. I hope she has no regrets. I hope she finds her God again. I hope she repairs the relationship with the kids to their mutual satisfaction. I do.

I will not be bitter. I will do what it takes to not be bitter and to leave this behind where it belongs. That is not yet done. But I see the next part of my journey is to give myself permission to let her go the rest of the way. It has to be. It wasn't what I asked for but it is what needs to happen. Cannot be any other way at this point because I cannot tolerate being treated like that again. Nor can I trust her to so much as talk to me w/out trying to control or "win". It's weird, but I'm now the adversary. For what? I don't know, but if I don't let her go I'll be lost.

Be at peace.
_________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

Top
#2068250 - 09/02/10 02:14 PM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: AJM]
soleil Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2372
Originally Posted By: AJM
Cannot be any other way at this point because I cannot tolerate being treated like that again. Nor can I trust her to so much as talk to me w/out trying to control or "win".


Whenever there is a "competition" in a relationship dynamic it's very very toxic and bad. The good thing is you have learned what you will NOT put up with in the future and that is a great thing. After all of this madness, you have come out on top learning what is good and what is bad. You can't put a price on that.

Top
#2068803 - 09/03/10 12:06 AM Re: The year of not my problem [Re: soleil]
AJM Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 3063
Thank you Soleil. You are once again correct. I do realize that these issues are of her making. I recognize the helplessness I felt and the growth I've had. I do always look for the silver lining. There will be one for me.

I know I can fully realize that silver lining when I give myself the final permission to let go. I also know that's when I'll stop looking for a reason and fully accept what I already know.

It would help to accept this if I thought like she did. But that would also be insanity to me. And I would not be willing to live with myself if I did think like her. For that, I pay the price of having to do this the slow hard way. It'll take more time I'm sure. Less than I think, but more than I want I suspect. I can already feel the door closing the rest of the way. I've never been one to regret my decisions. To do that, I have to be sure what I'm doing is something I can live with.

Know what? I can live with my decision to let go. I know in my heart I can do that now. And each day I more fully feel it in the rest of me. I will be free or die. That is who I am.

To do that, I have to feel the remainder of the anger and disgust. And then let it go. I thought it was all gone, but there's more. As I let it go, I feel a great weight lifted. But there is still a sliver of it left. I think that part will take the longest (kind of like the 80/20 concept, right?)

In the end, if she wants out, I cannot stop her. I didn't even try in the beginning to stop her. I'm still not trying to stop her, but I will not be told to divorce her by her. I will not be controlled. I will divorce her, but not because she said to do it. Because it is the right thing for me. I will not talk poorly of her. I will not hate her or be bitter. That would not be freedom to me.

Almost there. One more brick....

Thanks Soleil. I know there are great people out there I have yet to meet. Giving myself permission to do so and to pursue relationships is part of this. Nothing to do with her any longer. Just me. I can live with that.

Peace
_________________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

Top
Page 12 of 32 < 1 2 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 31 32 >


Moderator:  Virginia 

Save Your Marriage! Schedule Online

Schedule a phone consultation with a Divorce Busting® Coach! Call: 800-664-2435 or 303-444-7004