I'm not sure if you were being serious or over the top with the "give up the phone, shut down facebook," etc. stuff.
If it was serious, I think that kind of approach is not likely to ever succeed.
It may be what you WANT right now, in your pain and sense of betrayal.
But I don't think that stuff is doable.
Free access to her phone to check on messages and calls? The password and befriending for facebook? TRY to go to bed at the same time?
Those are reasonable and doable. I don't think the others are.
Is your wife in need of counseling right now for her substance abuse problem? Because if so, she really needs to do that. How can she be expected to make marriage type decisions when she's wrestling with whether to use again or not?
Why would you expect her to?
Look, she's home. She's giving off (if your posts are accurate) lots of signs that she wants in right now. I know in the end that's not enough, but there is something to be gained by being by her side while she finds a grip on her problem.
YOu've got to find a way to battle your mind.
Seriously.
You're desire for addressing the affair and future of the marriage is fair enough, but you're letting feelings drive your attitude.
You're not being an ostrich sticking your head in the sand if you simply allow for some time to decompress. You just have to find a way to handle it yourself, because I can see that's a big challenge for you right now.
There's nothing particularly wrong I wouldn't think, with telling her that at some point, when she feels ready, the two of you need a brief conversation about where you are and where you're going. You can tell her that you don't mean right now. That you're just enjoying having her there and learning how to be close again. But it does have to happen sometime.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Thanks guys. You tend to make things pretty clear for me and I really need that.
I'm not going to rush anything. Just relax, be patient, and see what happens for now.
I also need to back off from making sure she feels good (my definition of feeling good). I get too worked up not knowing what mood she will be in. I need to be supportive, yes. But I don't need to push my help on her. She's always expressed that she used to be so independent and she misses it sometimes. I'll just let her have her space, let her do her thing, and not pry.
In the meantime I'm setting up my goals for next season. This season has been a wash. Too much stress. Too many bad habits. Not enough sleep. Time to slowly put things back in order for myself and get back on the right track to feeling better physically. Hopefully that will allow me to start feeling better mentally as well.
Me:42 W:43 M:03/08/98 SD17, D13 Found out about affair:12/16/10 Found out again: 06/22/12 Split: 06/22/12
I was outside putting away yard equipment last night. My wife was outside watering her garden and talking on the phone to her sister. While I was cleaning up some debris, I heard her say, "No, I haven't. No, I'm not going to." Then she repeated herself. To me, it sounded like she was trying to be vague about her answers.
For whatever reason I just didn't want to let it slide anymore. I wanted to know what was going on behind my back - if anything. After I was done with my cleaning and seeing that she was off the phone, I approached her. "I want to know what you and your sister were talking about. Not now. But after we get inside and get cleaned up." I wanted to sound direct as possible. She looked at me as if I had caught her stealing a cookie from the jar.
Once inside I kept pretty quiet. Not intentionally, though I was glad to make her think about it for a while. She asked if I wanted to jump in the shower with her. (Like I was going to say, "no.") "I guess."
So there we were in the shower. I was remaining quiet and just washing myself waiting for her to bring it up. She did.
"What did you hear me say?" She asked. I told her but did not go into how it sounded vague or like a question she was trying to skirt. Though she was.
"What did you mean bu that?"
"She asked if he had called and I said, 'No he didn't'. She asked if I was going to call him and I said, 'No, I'm not.'"
Immediately, I sensed BS. So I just up and said, "I can't believe you. You said that the first time, 7 months ago. So." And I shrugged.
"And I tried then too."
"Yeah. And what happened?" I was being a prick, I know. But my macho brain and ego were in overdrive. They were tired of watching me become, what they thought, was a doormat and wanted to stand up. "What makes me believe you this time? What's it going to finally take for me to gain some trust?"
"What do you want me to do?" She was in defense-mode. Macho and Ego were there telling me exactly how she asked that question. It wasn't in a tone that expressed true concern. But more on the line of, "What could I possibly do different? I'll never make you happy so why try?"
"What?" I asked. "Would you want me to do if the tables were turned? What would make you feel better and more trusting of me?" I was tired of the awkwardness. There I was standing there naked in the shower arguing about infidelity. I was ready to get out.
"I don't know what you want me to do. You're not me and I would probably do things different." Her tone was still being screened through Macho and Ego and they weren't taking it well.
"I'M TIRED OF [blank]ING WONDERING WHAT YOU'RE DOING BEHIND MY BACK! STRESSED! WORRIED! ANXIOUS! It still seems like your hiding your phone from me, your being secretive ... [blank] like that. I'm just tired of it. You don't tell me anything you want to do. You just do what you do and I'm suppose to guess where we are."
"YOU DON'T HAVE TO GUESS ABOUT ANYTHING!" She yelled back. "YOU DON'T THINK THIS IS TOUGH ON ME TOO? THERE'S SO MUCH [blank] IN MY HEAD ABOUT THINGS AND I'M TIRED OF IT." We weren't making ground on this so I decided to get out of the shower.
Drying off, I said calmly, "I'm putting a towel on the hook her and one on the floor for you to step on." Then I walked.
(Part 2 in a bit. It ended in the bedroom and I think we may have made some headway.)
Me:42 W:43 M:03/08/98 SD17, D13 Found out about affair:12/16/10 Found out again: 06/22/12 Split: 06/22/12
Once we got dressed, we started relaxing on the bed and continued the conversation. Our daughters were leaving for a while so we could be more open about things.
The subject came up again about her personal issues with substance abuse, depression, guilt, and inner torment. Like before she stated that she had so many problems how could she possibly focus on fixing the marriage is she can't fix herself.
I agree to an extent. But what am I to do; stand idly by and watch her and us crumble away? She cannot find the motivation to start much now because, in her mind, there are way too many things to start. Which issue should be dealt with first? Which one will take the most work? More than likely the deep rooted ones within her spirit. Though she has this sense of failure that hovers over her constantly. Her mind cannot shake the notion that anything she tries she will fail.
What hope do we have then?
We talked a bit and both of us became impatient. Her with the fact that I can't recognize how my changes effect her negatively. What I do now makes her feel even that much more guilty about what she's done to me. My demeanor, my attention to her, my words of encouragement and love, etc. They are daggers.
I told her that those words and those actions are just as much for me as they are for her. But I do want her to know that I truly feel this way and always have. It was just in the past I was a piss poor person who didn't know how to express them.
Out of curiosity I asked if she would feel better if I stopped or at least slowed down for a bit until she felt more comfortable with who I was - or had become.
"No," she said. "That's just it. I love hearing them and I love the attention. It's just that I feel guilty receiving them. Every sweet text you sent me while I was on vacation I would show my sister. I looked forward to them."
"Okay." I wanted to get back to the her and us thing but by this time she was face down on the bed crying hard. I figured it would be best to let her have her moment and when she was ready she would start talking again. It took a while.
Surprisingly I had no fear, no anxiety over what was going on. I felt calm and at peace. If she would have told me she couldn't handle it any longer and waned out I think I could have said okay.
Maybe not.
We did eventually get to a point where we talked about boundaries, accountability, counseling, stuff like that. And even today we talked more about it. And there was no tension.
THAT was a step forward. Not feeling the tension.
After a while we just relaxed on the bed. It was getting late and we were ready to tuck in. She moved real close to me and started "messing around." Two nights in a row, I thought.
Oh well.
Me:42 W:43 M:03/08/98 SD17, D13 Found out about affair:12/16/10 Found out again: 06/22/12 Split: 06/22/12
Your story is, I think, a good example of how the tried and true DB'ing principles don't work perfectly for everyone in every situation. This is why it's so important for each individual to have a good handle on who they are and who their spouse is.
To me the conversation was powerful. It was a compelling read for me. I am struck by the honesty in the things your wife was saying to you.
You know, I think often affairs occur because the one in the affair does not feel worthy of their spouse. I think they feel ugly and dirty inside, and they still want acceptance and love from someone, but don't feel they deserve to receive it from their spouse.
That's a really significant thought to ponder, especially given what your wife has shared with you.
I'm moved again to a place where I say that your most critical issues are not yet your marriage. They are with your wife. And I don't think they are even her addiction problems just yet.
She feels unworthy to be loved.
Well, there is incredible healing power in unconditional love. You were experiencing a taste of it with the daily text messages you sent while they were on vacation.
Think again what she shared with you about how much those messages meant to her.
It seems to me that you have a very necessary message to send to her, and you must be sure that she understands it clearly. But it's not about your marriage per se. It's about your love and devotion to her, and the strength that it has to overcome and see you both through whatever it is that she needs to do to feel whole again.
Man, to me? That's what those old fashioned wedding vows are ALL about. "For better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others...till death do us part."
You've got a great opportunity to LIVE those words to your wife. All it takes you putting aside YOUR need for resolution on these marital issues....FOR A TIME. You'll get there eventually.
But you could help your wife HEAL. You could support her and show her that no matter what she is going through, she has an anchor that she can depend on.
Amazing stuff really. You are blessed.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Indeed. I need to be careful where my hope comes from. To be honest, the hope was in "us" and where our conversation led.
I need hope in myself more. So that whatever firey darts come my way, I will have the strength not to give up and stand tall. Not sure if I'm there - yet. But I've had some good friends on and off this board to help lead me in the right direction and stay focused.
Right now, my wife is at her NA meeting. She was asked to be treasurer at this group being that it's her home group and everyone loves her.
That's something that I don't know if I have conveyed here. My wife's true personality. Where ever my wife goes she becomes everyone's friend. She has a fun-loving personality. She loves to laugh. She loves to meet people. She's bubbly and wonderful to be around. I see it. She doesn't.
Me:42 W:43 M:03/08/98 SD17, D13 Found out about affair:12/16/10 Found out again: 06/22/12 Split: 06/22/12
She started asking questions about my relationships. I had no problem telling her about them.
But then she asked if I called the other man and told him to stop calling her. This was the second time she asked that. The first, was the night before in our conversations in the shower.
It flipped me out. Now please take in consideration that I'm still working on this paranoia thing. I don't have it licked yet. So, why in the hell would she wonder that? The answer, to me, was why would I dare tell him to stop calling her. She misses his calls and I had no right. It's unusual that he just "stopped." Yeah, she told him to apparently. But he just stopped without any squabble. Plus, after I caught her she called him back later to tell him it was over. She said that he told her I called him.
I didn't. I did not. I would not. I don't have his number. I don't want his number. I don't want to say a word to this man. I would like to strangle him. But then I told her I always thought it was odd that men fight the women's affair partner and not the woman. I mean, isn't it the woman's fault that they went outside the marriage in the first place.
How would he have know it was me in the first place? She told me that when he answered the phone that I hung up. No, if I wanted to talk to him I would have talked to him. And if she thought it would be better if I did, I would definitely give him a call.
She assured me that it wouldn't.
But, am I wrong for feeling this way? That she's upset that he's not calling or pursuing and I'm the reason?
She hardly ever asked about anything I've done. Who I've talked to about the affair. Now all of a sudden she wants to know everything. But that was her last question; Did I call "So and So?"
Hmm.
Me:42 W:43 M:03/08/98 SD17, D13 Found out about affair:12/16/10 Found out again: 06/22/12 Split: 06/22/12
