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#2166813 - 07/09/11 10:51 AM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: Harrier]
XYZ Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 391
Loc: Cumming, GA
Saturday morning kid swap at D5 karate class....Small talk (all good) with W. Then:

Me: I know you've been really busy and it would mean the world to me if we could get that appointment set. [How's that for channeling my inner J3B?]

W: I know, I'm sorry I meant to do it this week. Actually, I meant to do it the week before. I've just been so busy. I will get it done this week.

Me: I understand. I know you're busy. I almost didn't mention it so that I didn't seem impatient or pushy, but figured it was better to say something then let it bother me.

W: No, it's fine. It's not like I don't want to do it too, just been busy. I did get the email address for the person I need to get a referral from and I'll do it this week.

Me: Thank you.

Conversation moves on....

I feel better and will really feel better when it's done, but I have faith that she'll handle it. She seemed very sincere.....
_________________________
M: 39 W: 37
Married: 9
D5; S3
"It's Over" 09/26/10
11 Day Sep 10/10
Piecing Starts 11/4/10
Piecing Fails 4/11
I move out 5/11
Hire Lawyer 6/11 - Stall 6/22/11
Piecing #2 - 6/22/11
Home 10/11

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#2166881 - 07/09/11 05:47 PM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: XYZ]
XYZ Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 391
Loc: Cumming, GA
Baby steps today....

Haven't seen or heard from W since this AM and then get TM out of the blue....

"Hope you are having a good day. WLY"

Originally Posted By: XYZ

* W contact me when it's not about the kids


Nice exchange. A few minutes later, I TM saying that I'll call kids a bit earlier than usual because I'll be out later. She replied that that is fine and I can call now too, if I want. So I call, but she get's on. We chat for a few and then she says "I'll get the kids. I love you."

Originally Posted By: XYZ

* More first ILY's again, to prove that once wasn't a fluke


I have to say that I'm feeling pretty good today...
_________________________
M: 39 W: 37
Married: 9
D5; S3
"It's Over" 09/26/10
11 Day Sep 10/10
Piecing Starts 11/4/10
Piecing Fails 4/11
I move out 5/11
Hire Lawyer 6/11 - Stall 6/22/11
Piecing #2 - 6/22/11
Home 10/11

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#2167059 - 07/10/11 08:28 PM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: XYZ]
XYZ Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 391
Loc: Cumming, GA
Couple of nice baby steps today to wrap up the weekend.

(1) W this morning told me she thought we should be careful with the ILYs in front of kids so as "not to confuse them", I said "Ok, did something happen?" She replied that D5 asked "mommy, are you and daddy getting back together?" I asked what she said so that I could reply the same way if asked. W said "I told her, I don't know. I'm telling you that I'm committed to getting back together with you, but it's too much to explain to a 6 year old while we work through it." I said "ok, no problem, I agree" And SMILED huge on the inside....

(2) W called with kids tonight. She was very chatty and sounded just like "old" her. As is still my practice, I ended call first. About 5 minutes later, she called back because she forgot to tell me a story from today and "just had to tell me". I know I can't mind read but, certainly seems to that she starting to re-connect.

Seems like the baby steps are starting to pick up the pace. I like this a lot.

I know it takes how long it takes and dates and times are just dates and times, but I have a goal of being home by my Bomb-aversary - Sept 26th.....It won't be the end of the world if I'm not, but it sure would be nice...
_________________________
M: 39 W: 37
Married: 9
D5; S3
"It's Over" 09/26/10
11 Day Sep 10/10
Piecing Starts 11/4/10
Piecing Fails 4/11
I move out 5/11
Hire Lawyer 6/11 - Stall 6/22/11
Piecing #2 - 6/22/11
Home 10/11

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#2167061 - 07/10/11 08:35 PM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: XYZ]
Harrier Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 781
Loc: Connecticut
Good goal. As long as its flexible.

Another Q, X?

From the time you left the boards in March or so until you moved out. What was your day-to-day home life like. Was there a lot of tension or little tension? Were there any physical acts between W and you - hugs, kisses, ML? Did you have regular convos. Did you do stuff just you 2 - even if it was watching a movie? Sleeping in the same bed?
Just curious.

H
_________________________
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
--Jean Jacques Rousseau.

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#2167117 - 07/11/11 01:57 AM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: Harrier]
Dawn of Hope Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 724
Loc: Midwest--USA
Just popping in to give a slightly different perspective here. I have not yet made it to the piecing stage so I have no advice on that in general, but I would like to comment on something specific that you have been talking about a lot.

I know you really want her to make that appointment. I get it, it's something of a litmus test for you as to whether she is serious or not. However, you have said that she has a long history of not being good about following through with these administrative things, and she's frequently late (goes with the territory).

I'm a woman with a similar set of tendencies (although with me the lateness is by far the worst). For example, one of the big reasons my H left (or so I'm told; you know how much weight we should attach to that) was because I wasn't taking the initiative in running my business (I'm a sole proprietor, trying to do everything myself), so I wasn't making a lot of money. The thing is, even with all of the reasons to change that (to please H and maybe change his opinion of me a bit, to make more money at a time when I am dead broke, to help my self-esteem and all that) ... I still haven't "gone live" on my business website, which I started working on over 7 years ago! My H even told me once (after he left) that he goes there periodically to see if I've done anything with it. (I did finally get some tech help, but the delays have been almost entirely my fault.) So, clearly, it would at least be something I could do to minimize his reasons for staying away.

And I can assure you (see my thread if you like) that I want my M restored, down to the depths of my soul, and I will be standing for it and for my H as long as we are both alive. So it is not as simple to "just do it" as some people think it ought to be, even if you truly want the end results. Of course, I have had depression for decades, which invariably creates this kind of problem for those who have it, but one of my goals is to live a life which requires no excuses (still have a long way to go).

The point I am attempting to make is that humans are not simple, linear operators; our thinking can make everything much more complicated than it ought to be (but you knew that already, right?). One of the things I have learned through all the therapy and reading and studying about depression and relationships and so on, is that people do/don't do things for a wide variety of reasons, and often they aren't what we think they are, especially in the case of other people's actions. That's why it's generally better to give other people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible.

Here's an exercise to demonstrate: Write down every possible reason that you can think of which might contribute to your W not making this appointment yet. I'll bet that if you work at it, you can come up with 10 or 15 of them; I could, and I don't even know her. Have you done it yet? Seriously, grab a piece of paper and scribble them down; it will only take a couple of minutes. I'll wait ...







Okay, done it now? I hope so. Now, I'll bet that if you look over that list, you will see that a lot of those reasons have little or nothing to do with how serious she is about reconciling with you. What are the odds that some of those reasons (not about you) are in play here? Pretty high, I would say. So you see, it really isn't all about you, which in this case is a good thing.

The reason I have told you this long story (and encouraged you to go through this exercise) is to explain why I want to encourage you to let go of attachment to whether she makes the appointment or not, or how long it takes. If she has trouble just making an appointment to get the car serviced, why would you hang all your hopes on whether she makes an appointment which undoubtedly has a much higher level of emotion attached, with great potential for conflict? That is an enormous amount of pressure to put on her at this stage, whether you express it overtly or not. I think she, your M, and especially YOU will be much better off if you decline to make it the be-all and end-all of your reconciliation efforts. I think that if you try to decide whether she is serious or not based on whether she does something that was ALWAYS difficult for her, you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you absolutely have to create a test of whether or not she's serious (which I don't think is a good idea anyway, but I'm not an expert here), at least pick something that she used to do for/with you all the time and enjoyed, which she stopped doing when things got hairy between you. Understood? Make the barrier she has to scale for you to believe in her more of a street curb and less of a Mount Everest.

Besides, think of it this way: What is the end result you are looking to have come out of her making this appointment? A better M, right? If the M is getting better even without the appointment and its subsequent results, why sweat it?

I hope that helps!

Peace and blessings,
Dawn
_________________________
Me 45/H 47, no kids
Together since 1985; M/1992
Bomb1 (EA-OW1, age 22) 2001
Bomb2 (EA/PA-OW2, age 22) 10/2007, A continues
H left 11/24/08
minimal contact, no legal action
http://tinyurl.com/DawnHope1

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#2167134 - 07/11/11 08:07 AM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: Dawn of Hope]
XYZ Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 391
Loc: Cumming, GA
Harrier -

I can say without hesitation that the period of time leading up to me moving out sucked a$$. I'll try to give you a little more detail....

The history goes like this. "mini" bomb on 9/6/10; I start all the wrong stuff (cry, whine, I'll change, I'll do the laundry, blah blah); "full" bomb 9/26/10; W is incredibly angry. Hostile. By 10/21/10 I tell her "If you can't work on this, I can't be here. It's too painful"; I move to my parents house on 10/24/10; 11/4/10 She asks me to come home. I did - I almost ran, no ground rules, just "yes, honey. Be there in 5 min!" and was happier, more hopeful then ever before. Ultimately I would move out again on 5/7/11 after 6 months of trying. Here's what happened during that 6 months....

It started fine. She would say ILY. She'd even kiss me hello/good bye (nothing fancy, but a peck). We had sex on 12/31 - after she says to me "don't think this changes anything, I just wanted sex". I was devastated. From there it got worse and worse. We'd be civil, polite, but she wouldn't spend time alone with me. Kissing stopped. ILY stopped. We'd pretend that we slept in the same bead, but 75% of the time she'd either fall asleep while putting one of the kids to bed or leave because I was "snoring"; the other 25% she's stay downstairs until I was asleep. I planned dates, she cancelled them. I'd try to sit with her one on one and she'd leave the room. It got worse and worse. By April, I basically gave up and said "it's all or nothing, I need to know if you want to work on this". She said "I don't know". I handed her my ring and said "I'll go look for apartments this weekend." That was pretty much it. Between that and the day I moved, the venom and crazy talk came back in full force. "I'm dead inside to you", "you've hurt me for 10 years", etc etc. I realize now that "Forcing Piecing" = "Pursuing"; under the guise of trying to piece, I had gone back to being melty man and pursing the hell out of her.

Harrier - I know that moving out has helped me. I know that J3B says he's against the LBS being the one to move and I get that, but disagree in certain circumstances. I don't know if it will help you or not, but here is what I do know. The place you are now (I mean emotionally, not physically) is the worst place of them all. Limbo [censored] worse then anything. You're a big boy, you make your own decisions, but my perspective and experience is this: When you have your space, you WILL start to realize that you'll be fine alone (not overnight - took me a few weeks for this to really happen). And your W MAY realize that she misses you and have the space to admit it - first to herself and later to you. The first has to happen for you to heal and be healthy alone or together. In my mind, this is a step forward regardless of the direction you M takes and that beats limbo all to hell.


Dawn -

Thanks for the perspective. Intellectually, I know what you mean. My career is a sort of high-level project management (I've spent 20 years either owning or running software companies or divisions of software companies); in my field I look at multi-year projects break them down to component steps and timelines and tasks my team with frequent milestones. It's in my nature to apply that here, and I know I really can't... after all, if I fire my W because she misses a due date that's sorta self-defeating isn't it? haha. I'm trying to understand it from her perspective - that's some of the work I'm doing on ME.

X
_________________________
M: 39 W: 37
Married: 9
D5; S3
"It's Over" 09/26/10
11 Day Sep 10/10
Piecing Starts 11/4/10
Piecing Fails 4/11
I move out 5/11
Hire Lawyer 6/11 - Stall 6/22/11
Piecing #2 - 6/22/11
Home 10/11

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#2167135 - 07/11/11 08:24 AM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: XYZ]
XYZ Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 391
Loc: Cumming, GA
10 years ago today was first date with W. Just got TM: "Happy anniversary ily"

Wow. She remembered.
_________________________
M: 39 W: 37
Married: 9
D5; S3
"It's Over" 09/26/10
11 Day Sep 10/10
Piecing Starts 11/4/10
Piecing Fails 4/11
I move out 5/11
Hire Lawyer 6/11 - Stall 6/22/11
Piecing #2 - 6/22/11
Home 10/11

Top
#2167144 - 07/11/11 09:42 AM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: XYZ]
Harrier Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 781
Loc: Connecticut
Happy anniversary too....I thought it doesn't mean the same coming from me.

Thanks for the info. While mine is not as bad (yet), I do see some parallels. My W has stopped the hugging, kissing and ILYs (unless we are having some sort of R talk then she pulls out the "I love you a lot" to explain something.) there is no active dislike...that I can detect. She always wants to do stuff as a family and a couple times she was going outside to play with our kids and she said, "Why don't you come outside with me?" She even suggested a one-on-one date.

We sleep in the same bed 95% of the time (unless a kid isn't feeling well, but she goes go bed before me and is asleep when I get there. It has been this way a lot of our marriage. To the point that I find it odd that couples go to bed at the same time.

I do see the piecing/pursing problems. I think piecing is MORE that both parties wanting to work on the marriage. Both parties have to be willing to move forward at roughly the same speed. I think without that piecing could fail.

Dawn - I get you point. My W is a lot like you in many respects especially with the tardiness.

For me it's not necessarily about changing her behavior or attaching significance to her action. It's about her realizing what her actions are doing. I mean I would get why someone might be resistance, but once I'd like to hear. "I know this is important to you, but I'm having trouble starting this..or"
_________________________
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
--Jean Jacques Rousseau.

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#2167156 - 07/11/11 10:20 AM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: Harrier]
XYZ Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/10
Posts: 391
Loc: Cumming, GA
Originally Posted By: Harrier
I think piecing is MORE that both parties wanting to work on the marriage. Both parties have to be willing to move forward at roughly the same speed. I think without that piecing could fail.


And there lies the rub. You are dead on. Not understanding that killed piecing #1 for me. I'm certain that it'll be fine this time, but this is the killer part... But there is a benefit too. As the LBS, if you let the WAS drive the speed of the process you get 2 benefits: First, by definition you're at their speed and second, they have to chase you, even though you're really cheering (internally) for them to do it.
_________________________
M: 39 W: 37
Married: 9
D5; S3
"It's Over" 09/26/10
11 Day Sep 10/10
Piecing Starts 11/4/10
Piecing Fails 4/11
I move out 5/11
Hire Lawyer 6/11 - Stall 6/22/11
Piecing #2 - 6/22/11
Home 10/11

Top
#2167277 - 07/11/11 07:45 PM Re: XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying... [Re: XYZ]
Jack_Three_Beans Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 11333
Anniversary? And she is the one to bring it up?

I hope you think that is a good thing.

So what did you do on your first date? You going to romatic the hell outta her with anything similar? A pizza if you went for Pizza? Dinner reservations if the resturant is still open? Movie tickets if you went...

You get the drift.

Enjoy my friend.

Bask in the renewed inportance of anniversaries.
_________________________

Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet


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