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tpc1977 Offline OP
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What should I expect day to day? Ups and downs? Good moods and bad moods? Mediocrity?

There are no books, no proper advice, no faith, no fake smile with head up and shoulders back to help alleviate the absolute torment that whirls inside of you during these times. The questions that root themselves into every thought and conversation. But you don't want to pry. The begging and pleading in your soul when your together. But you don't want to act needy. The anger, shame, anguish that reeks from your broken spirit. But you don't want to show negative emotions. It's the facade. The mask. The ersatz glow on your face to show that everything is okay.

It's sickening. It's gut wrenching. It's a nightmare that only you feel you posses as you go on with your everyday humdrum-ness.

Sometimes I want to walk up to my wife and take her innocence - as if there were any. I want to steal something from her like she stole from me. I want to show her the torment, the utter anguish and anxiety that plagues my every thought and movement. As ugly as it sounds, I wish she weren't here. On this earth. In my life. There are things that she has done to me that I "must" overlook to carry on with whatever it is that I'm doing.

And is it even worth it? All this pain. All this pressure. All this work to make me a new man to prove what? And to whom? To prove that I can do it? To show her that I'm worth even the smallest of fights?

I look at my family and my house and try to realize that we've built something. We've built memories for us and them. Will our house be a place where our children will, one day, want to come back and think of the good times they've had growing up. To reminisce of places they've laughed, places they've cries, places they've hidden when a storm comes.

And what of us - the parents? Will we ever want to come back? Will I want these memories to become real to me again? Do I want to see the places I've hidden during the storm I'm facing right now? Will she only see bad places that turned her away from me?

"This is the bathroom I painted one week as my soul was tortured relentlessly and my heart twinged with every beat. See the color. It's dark. Real dark. Like my broken spirit."

"This is where I bed used to be. It once held passion and tenderness. But at the end it held my tears as I knelt and prayed and cried out to God."

I don't want those memories. But it's too late.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Last night was another step forward - I think. We talked a bit as her and the girls got ready for their trip out of state. The girls were real excited. My wife looked concerned. I asked her what was on her mind and if she wanted to finish our talk about "us?" She opened up a little. I asked her if she was worried about me while she was gone. About what I may do. I reassured her that I had no intentions of doing anything that would destroy what we've built. The same things I told her the night before. But she's still worried. Ironic, huh?

I told her about the stress I was under. She really doesn't have a clue as to how much is on me. I wish she could recognize it. Think about all the questions you would have, I told her. If the shoe was on the other foot so to speak. What questions would you have, I ask. They're probably the same questions I have. She wondered why I didn't ask them. Because you lie to me. You tell me things I want to hear and not the truth. You've lied to me for a year and even after we started working on our marriage, you continued to lie. You hide things from me as if I'm a police officer. You go behind my back a lot. And you've never tried to rebuild trust.

Well, maybe for the first few days during our counseling. After that it was back to normal - or abnormal. Whichever way you want to look at it.

She did tell me that she wants to go back to counseling. She told me that she wants to make things right. This woman, my wife, however, is not one to initiate much. She never has been. She has to be pulled out of bed in the morning. Forced to get ready for church. Prodded to go run because she really likes to when she's out there. Manipulated to go to her NA meetings. Her engine doesn't turn over to easily. And I believe in my heart of hearts that she will not do much to rebuild trust, or go to counseling, or to stop talking to this other man, or to stop drinking, or to stop taking pills.

After some talk I asked her how she saw me and if that has any bearing on her worries about me. She told me that she knew I was a strong man, a committed man, and someone she could trust. But beneath all that she fears that I will push all that aside to do what I think she deserves because she feels she "does" deserve it.

I asked if she would want me to do something so she wouldn't feel so guilty about what she has done. In a way, she expressed. That way no one could point all fingers only at her.


Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12
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MHL Offline
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TPC,

I have much to post to you but I am at the end of my day at work and probably will not get on again until tonight.

Let me say this much......there is a lot going for you in your situation and believe it or not I think your marriage is going to survive. I would suggest reading in the newcomers section, you may see much more wisdom on how to deal with the internal demons your battling.

BTW I think I live in the city next to that amusement park.

Cheers


Formerly "missherlove"

Me49 XW49
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Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

~Jim Morrison
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Tpc,

Just wanted to say hey to you and I hope you are doing better..

I just came across your thread and after reading it, I need to digest it for a while..

You BOTH have been through a lot , and your situation has so much promise, but there are.....things....that you still need to address too.

Trust is hard to rebuild, and it doesn't appear that either of you are having much luck in that department.

Where does that start ?

How does that start ?

I'm not sure from where you stand , but it definitely deserves a look into.

For now, just try to relax and appreciate the things that you know are truths, and try to not let the demons in your head drive your actions..

More later....

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TPC,

I see so many things here I am not sure where to start......

Lets start with what is going well.

It seems that she is somewhat concerned that you may stray and go out and have some "fun" b/c of what she did.

IMO this shows that she is at least thinking about recommitting to the marriage. She is weighing in her mind what it will be like.

She is probably wondering if she invests the time and effort into the marriage you could one day just up and leave her......and who could blame you.......right?????

There is nothing you can say that will help her here until she is re-committed to the marriage.....then you can give her reassurances.

It is not ironic that she fears that you may cheat on her or leave her, it is quite normal. I would even suspect that eventually you will see some anxiety on her part about your whereabouts and your activities when you are gone.

If this happens you can get all high and mighty and declare "this is what you get" or you can re-assure her that you are committed......but I am getting ahead of myself.

Things seem to be going well.......you guys are still under the same roof and it sounds like your financial situation has prevented you guys from separating. That has kept you guys together but it has kept YOU from taking a hard look at YOU.

Sometimes a separation can be good. Not in you case, not now. She is trying to get there but is not sure how to do it. Women are emotional creatures they have to "feel" a certain way in order to act.......it is quite un-natural for her to put forth the effort if she is not feeling it.....so I would say that she IS working on the marriage.....you just don't see it that way.

You want to see her jaw hit the floor?????

The next time she is trying to be close to you physically, acknowledge to her quietly that you realize she is working really hard on you guys and that you appreciate it even though she may not always "feel" it. That is it, that simple.

The other thing you need to do is stop doing the tempeture checks. Show her the man she wants to be with. She wants to be with a strong, confident man, one who is sure of himself and can be there for her even though she does not deserve it.

If she iniates a R talk that is fine......she does most of the talking and you do most of the listening.

As far as the other man goes, the next time you guys talk you can reiterate to her how you feel. You did an excellent job last week. You do not realize what a big step that is.

THe other thing that you need to do is let go of YOUR PAIN. You sooooo bad want her to "feel" the pain she caused.......you think that if she does that then she will fall on her knees and beg your forgiveness. NOT Gonna happen, and certainly not the way you would envision it.

I hope this helps a little,

I will post more tomorrow....

hang in there

cheers


Formerly "missherlove"

Me49 XW49
M17 T19
S16 D20

Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

~Jim Morrison
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tpc1977 Offline OP
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Thank you, MHL. For the insight.

I have two issues that you've addressed but I cannot shake. These are my main concerns.

One, How can I make progress with our marriage and myself knowing (or at least thinking) she's still with this other man? Even if it's talking on the phone. I feel like such a whimp. I'm letting her do it while I sit at home all cheery like. That's got me so stressed.

And that brings up issue two. I am in so much pain in my neck and back from it. I don't have any insurance. We hardly have any money right now and the health clinic wants me to get x-rays and at CT Scan. I found out it's going to cost me $1500. So that's out of the question. I'm an athlete so I know about stretching and yoga and many relaxation techniques but nothing is working. I pop ibuprofen all day to no avail. The stress from all this is sitting right directly on the back of my head. It's killing me.

That's one reason I want to walk away from this. I've had enough pain internal and external. But I know I won't.

Thank you for all of your help. You have helped me focus a little better - even though it doesn't sound like it.


Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 197
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I try reading a lot of posts on this forum. It's tough sometimes. Others are going through tougher situations but I see so many who never reconcile. That's disappointing.

In my mind I'm trying to hold on to some hope. But on the same hand, I'm trying to focus on what to do if/when we divorce. My kids are my main concern. My step-daughter because she feels so neglected by her real father. I am doing everything to show her how much she means to me and how much I want to be her dad. My younger daughter because she takes things so personal. She's so much like my mother. They blame themselves for things have no part in. Ever since I caught my wife texting the other man my daughter has been anxious about things. She warned me prior that mommy was doing things and hiding things. After I caught my wife she left and my little girl cried and blamed herself.

I believe my wife had an eye opener after that night but I'm not sure if it fully awakened her to the reality that we are living. She gets so engrossed in her feelings and emotions she forgets how it effects those close to her.

Even though I'm walking this thin line between believing and not believing, I'm still praying. Faith of a mustard seed, right? I pray for God to soften my wife's heart to Him and to me. I pray that the Holy Spirit would help both of us to do what God wants from us. To help us move away from the destructive things in our lives and to see His hand in our lives.

Not sure what may come of this. Honestly, I've been slowly moving away from my belief in God. To me, if I see my child in so much pain I would be there to support, help, and love. If I'm God's child, why do I feel so alone? Why is God so indifferent?

Today the pain in my neck and back are tremendous. Almost unbearable. I took the day off from training even though I have one of the biggest week of races coming up in August.

I texted a good morning and a quote to my wife who is in Florida. I told her I would send her a heartfelt note each morning she was gone. I just want her to know that she is always on my mind and always in my heart. She loved the first one yesterday. I sent one this morning but haven't gotten a response yet. She's probably still sleeping.


Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12
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Hey TPC,

I am sorry, you're in a low traffic part of this place. Not saying the advice isn't good, not saying that at all, just saying there isn't normally alot of traffic in here and without people reading not alot of posts.

The good news? Not alot of conflicting advice, nothing to overwhelm you.

I'll check out your thread later, but one thing popped out that I want to comment on:

Quote:

I asked God to show me a tiny light of hope that I can cling to. A light to show me that there is hope in my battle to break down that wall. If there is not light, I'm walking out - somehow, someway.


That tiny light of hope? God works in his own way, you might be surprised looking back what that light of hope was. You might over look it at the time.

I personally asked God for strength. Not a sign, I figured there were more needy people than I with those signs, but a little strength?

There is also a problem with the sign from God. And that is, signs can be sent by anyone. They can be misinterpetted. And should things not work out between you and your wife? You can say: "Well, God never sent me that sign I needed, so it was His call."

My wife had an affair, at times I despaired over it and her choice, I pushed and demanded, "Him or me." Well...that seldom works out well.

My wife and I are married, happy and will always be working on it. But it wasn't easy. "Him or me?" That was a part of it...but not as big as you think.

Forgiveness, however; was.
And strength to make it through.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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tpc1977 Offline OP
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Thanks Jack. Seriously.


Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,350
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TPC,

It is hard for you to see right now but you have actually done a lot of the TIME piece of this thing without realizing it.

Most people here mess it up during the first year after the bomb drop. You have managed to stay together during this time.....that is good. The bad part is that you have done little or no work on you. Sorry for the 2X4, we have to deal with reality here.

Obviously you have learned how to detach "at times" but not in the long term since of the word. I think that your detachment at times has been driven but your own anger and self righteousness, that has fed the attitude that you have identified with which is......F@CK IT, I'M DONE.......but what brings you back is that you really aren't done.

It is okay.....that is actually normal. At least it was for me.

You have a lot to work on and it will be a challenge because your W is actually showing some signs of wanting your marriage to work..........hold the balloons and confetti.

Reconciliation is much harder than waiting for our spouses to decide that they want to work on the marriage.

And to be clear, you are NOT in reconciliation.

Typically what happens in these nightmares after the bombdrop is that the couples usually separate physically, sometimes under the same roof sometimes under separate roofs.

What happens during this time is that the WAS embraces their new found freedom and within a short amount of time they realize that the "grass ain't so green".

During that same time, the LBS pines after, begs, crys, pursues and otherwise drives the wayward spouse further away, confirming their decision to leave. After a while the LBS realizes what is not working and starts to detach from the situation and then starts looking inside themselves, identifies the causes of the problems the WAS pointed out and maybe identifies some other character flaws, this is much easier to do when your spouse is not under the same roof.

Once the LBS really starts to fix their issues they realize that they are really an okay person and that their wayward spouse is an idiot, this is where the anger comes in and needs to be dealt with.

TPC you are somewhere right around here.

Originally Posted By: tpc1977
She gets so engrossed in her feelings and emotions she forgets how it effects those close to her.


It is not her feelings that are effecting others it is her actions.

Her actions is how SHE is dealing with HER feelings.

You would be smart to set aside YOUR feelings for a moment (hard to do when you are in pain) and REALLY try hard to understand her feelings before her choice to have an affair, her inability to end it and her struggle to recommit to the marriage.

Look up posters like Sandi2, or 25yearsmlc, both have excellent perspectives on what it takes for a WOMAN to get to the point where she steps out on her marriage. More importantly they can tell you how hard it is for them to let go of the OM and risk coming back to you.

When you truely "let go" of your pain then you will be able to do this. I can see it in your posts that you start to understand your W, but then you move into YOUR pain and it gets in the way of real progress within YOU.

As a fellow Christian it pains me to see someone question their faith, I do understand your doubts, I would tell you to dig deeper brother. HE will not forsake you, His plan is perfect and more importantly HIS timing is perfect..........we are the ones that have trouble waiting on HIS timing.

With that being said about your faith, please, please, please avoid discussions of her affair and the Bible......trust me she knows that it is wrong and does not need to be reminded......

Originally Posted By: tpc1977
That's one reason I want to walk away from this. I've had enough pain internal and external. But I know I won't.


Here is thing......walking away does not end the pain. You know this, if not hear it now......YOUR pain ends when you decide to stop letting HER actions hurt YOU......

and

your pain will end or at least there will not be enough room for the pain if you start being HAPPY again.

Make sense????

When you start to realize that YOUR success, YOUR life, YOUR GOALS, YOUR HAPPINESS is not tied to your marriage or your Wife then the PAIN will start to subside.

When you can really detach from her actions you can stop looking at her and start looking at YOU. Focusing on YOU, Focusing on YOUR children, Focusing on what YOU want to acheive in YOUR LIFE.

Then you will discover how to make YOU HAPPY again.

This is the key to saving YOUR marriage, or at least having a chance at saving your marriage. (which I think you do have a good chance of doing smile )

Originally Posted By: tpc1977

How can I make progress with our marriage and myself knowing (or at least thinking) she's still with this other man? Even if it's talking on the phone. I feel like such a whimp. I'm letting her do it while I sit at home all cheery like. That's got me so stressed.


This is the challenging thing that is unique in your situation......typically I would tell posters to not even talk to their spouses until the WAS wants to try to make it work and is willing to break all ties with the OP and have a "plan" in place so that when your suspicions come up there is a way put those fears to rest.

In your case if you tried to do this it would just come across as controlling and would be a major set back.....ther will come a time where you will be able to tell your W about your needs.

You have already done this once and you did it well, just need to add to it to make it complete. This is best rehearsed and presented in a conversation that she iniates not you.

It would go like this.....



W, I am glad you are interested in how I am feeling. This is how I feel when you talk to OM. (insert what you said before, it was awesome!!!) It hurts me when you have any contact with him and quite honestly we cannot work on us unless he is completely out of OUR lives. When you are ready to work on this us I would welcome the opportunity to sit down with you and talk about what that would entail.


She might tell you that she is working on the marriage already and in her mind she is........acknowledge this and thank her for her decision to work on the marriage.

At that point you would have to say; As long as you have ANY contact with him, I can not work on the marriage with you. (less is more here.) Just as you have needs, I do too. I need to feel secure that He is not in the picture at all. When you are ready to forever end any and all contact with him, I will work with YOU on US.

She may at that point agree to no contact, at which point you would explain to her how a transparency plan would work.

How this is presented would be very delicate in your case, because your W is already making moves back towards the marriage and you do not want to erase that progress.....

More later......

hang in there

cheers


Formerly "missherlove"

Me49 XW49
M17 T19
S16 D20

Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

~Jim Morrison
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,350
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Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans


The good news? Not alot of conflicting advice, nothing to overwhelm you.



I see that Jack posted as I was working on mine. Sorry for the length BTW. I have been working and coming back and forth to write the previous post. That is probably why it is so long, LOL.

He is right about that up there.

TPC your situation again is unique......the common advice might not apply.......

cheers


Formerly "missherlove"

Me49 XW49
M17 T19
S16 D20

Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

~Jim Morrison
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