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#2160800 - 06/14/11 06:46 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10919
Loc: west coast
First,

Have you actually read the Div Remedy book or the Div Busting book? PLease do so asap if not. Also read "After the Affair". You didn't say how you discovered the A or how she reacted to your response or what your response was...

Originally Posted By: tpc1977
It's been a while. We have our good days and our bad.
Recently, we've had two bad days - one real bad. She had an affair last year and we've been working through a lot of things. One of the main things we (mainly I) need to work on is feeling secure that the affair is over and there's just 'us' to keep the marriage going.

Of course. But easier said than done. Plus she probably is NOT sure she made the right choice and you pressuring her to make it is counter productive right now.



If anyone is reading this that has had an affair and wants to mend things the main thing (I think) is to convince the SO that nothing is going on behind their back. Do whatever it takes. If things don't line up with whereabouts, phone conversations, time, etc. do whatever needs to be done to make it right.

That time comes when and If the spouse who had the A wants to end it and is confident she made the right choice...most are NOT sure for months that they did.


***Their spouses have to make it clear that THEY, (The LBSer) isn't going to hold the affair over her head the rest of her life. If the LBSer cannot or will not let it go, the marriage is doomed...

IF she thinks you won't /can't forgive or let it go, the M is doomed.

My wife got mad at me for questioning things that didn't line up and seemed real, real odd.

THen stop. There are some who say "trust but verify" and some who say "don't snoop. Let her come to choose you in her time..." however long you can handle it.
Thing is, some of the questions you ask of her may sound as if you won't forgive her...ever....so why should she try?

What were your issues and your 180s? What type of things did you do that shut her out?

As you admit and I appreciate your insight and willingness to cast aside your wounded ego to look at your role in this, (Bravo, seriously, you are already ahead of most people right there)....I just think it's easy to focus
on your pain and the affair

rather than what lead to it....and that's important.



When I confronted her she blew up and one evening left for the night. I was stuck at home trying to think up stories for the children when they came home so they wouldn't worry. They know nothing of the affair or our problems. I plan on keeping it that way.


Bravo again. You are putting their needs and the chance of restoring your marriage ahead of your need to punish or be right...Thank GOD.

It is NOT the spouses's job to "teach a lesson" to our mates nor is it our job to "show them the consequences" of their choices.

As my DB coach said, "life does that"....

Plus you want to Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth. It's probably much harder than you realize, for her to deal with what this means about her.
The more her choices are questioned, the more she will be forced to defend them.

The more people who know or the more shame she feels, or guilt, easily backfires. As you have seen. My h cannot feel guilt for more than 5 minutes, or so I thought. All I saw was his anger if I said "how can you do this? Or "Why are you ? And my DB coach said those questions, e.g. 'how can you' and or 'why are you' were designed to make them feel defensive. So I had to stop asking questions that began that way.


Yes, I need more confidence. I want more confidence. I would love to be in control of myself when matters like this disrupt our lives. But it's difficult when you think you're being lied to and walked on.

I have made significant changes in who I am to her and my children. These changes have been consistent for almost 1/2 year now and she notices them. But I'm afraid she's worried that I will go back to my old self and be an ugly, mean man so she's holding on to something else just in case.

Wow, great insight. She has the "right" to distrust you then, in a way....and that's important for you to see. So you both can get on the same team and be working on MUTUAL issues of trust...not making her all wrong and you just a victim...

See my point?



Hopefully not. Because I cannot think of sharing my wife with another man. It's either him or me and I'm ready to say it's him if she's not willing to let go.



Slow down...be way more patient.

From where I sit, couldn't she argue that "She stuck it out with you for how long? YEARS & YEARS in which You were a self described "ugly mean man" to her? See, in her eyes, you pushed her into the arms of OM...

So for you to now whine that

"hey, 6 months of me being a decent h is enough to make up for ALL the years of crap I gave her...and I want her to end the one thing she felt
good about in years, NOW!

b/c I SAID I CHANGED and I've been a normal decent guys for half a year...

See how that kind of Makes you seem like...an "ugly, mean impatient man..."?

do you see how that could happen? Do you get how she could see this?

Here's a strong recommendation I cannot over emphasize.

Go to Retrovaille. It is very healing and you would get a lot out of it.

Good luck and fwiw, there IS hope in your sitch.

And check out MY timeline...6 months isn't long enough to overcome what you have to overcome...

just my .02
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2161132 - 06/16/11 01:54 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: 25yearsmlc]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
Thanks to those who recently posted. My back story is in the affair forum but I'll try and sum up here a bit to get you up to date.

First off, I wasn't mean and ugly in the sense of abusive emotionally, physically, or otherwise. My sense of mean and nasty are what my wife tells me about. And she always says it was for "all" of our marriage up to where I decided to change when I found out she was having an affair. In reality, it was probably nothing like that. I am a guy who sticks to it no matter how tough. I'm very devoted. Very devoted. I can't really get into it here but let's say it's sort of like when your children tell you that you never let them do anything. It's kind of blown up.

No, 6 months is nothing. I can do 6 months on my head. But if there is still another man involved I cannot continue when failure lies ahead. If she has one hand fully grasped to OM and her small finger holding lightly gripped to me, where do I stand?

I think, basically, I'm fed up. She lost her job, not once, but twice because of substance abuse. She gave up long ago at trying to clean up her life. I stood beside her and tried to motivate her to continue even the second time around. I stood by and forgave her not only for that but for the affair. I was the one who decided to change, to work hard, to make amends. But all I hear is resentment, blame, and anger. And on top of it, she continues to lie - and maybe even cheat.

Forgive me really. Maybe I just need to rant and rave because at home I try to be upbeat, confident, loving and kind. And sometimes I just need to vent. I have no real friends or family I can lay it on. Most of my friends would want me to tell her to (blank) off! My family would change their feelings about her.

That's another side of the coin right there. She IS a beautiful woman. I still find her amazingly attractive and fun to be around. It is just when she's emotionally distant it fuels her resentment and anger toward me.

I'm spent really. I've been at this for a while trying to remain calm and cool. Trying to not show my feelings or hurt or bitterness. Trying to salvage my marriage and save my family. Trying to stay positive even though I'm being beaten down inside. My head spins. My heart aches. My spirit is weak. I lost my faith in God in myself in everything and everyone.

We have no money to seek real help. She needs help with so much going on inside her. She won't open up to me or her friends. She bottles in a lot and when her top pops I'm the one she punches on.

Yes, I've read Divorce Busting. I've read, How to Win Your Wife Back Before It's Too Late. I've prayed. I've sought help in every direction. My church walked away. When I walked away they walked away and it hurts. I feel like if you've stopped walking through the doors because you are struggling they give up on you.

I'm just ready to quit because I'm so punch-drunk right now. I'm losing motivation.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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#2166047 - 07/06/11 02:23 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
Update.

I need encouragement to continue. She's still texting the OM and gets sort of indifferent with me. I don't want to leave her because she's going through a lot of inner turmoil. She's fighting her chemical addictions, going to meetings to help. She laid a lot of blame on herself for what's going with out financial problems and marriage. But when it comes to talking about them she'll start pointing fingers.

Some days she willing to fight. Other days she's not. Those days it seems like I could just walk out and she wouldn't care. I love this woman in spite of all that's happened. I love her to pieces.

I'm going through such confusion right now trying to figure out if I should stay and fight or walk out and let her decide if we're worth the fight.

Losing hope.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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#2166683 - 07/08/11 08:15 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
I feel like I need to stand up for myself here. I'm acting like nothing is bothering me. Totally staying upbeat and positive. But it's killing me each day knowing she's still probably talking to this OM.

I want her to see a guy she couldn't live without. I'm doing things I've never done before - but not going overboard. If we split this will be the guy she remembers.

We're suppose to go out tonight with friends. Hopefully it will end on a positive note.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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#2167407 - 07/12/11 03:40 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
Tough day despite what has happened.

I want to keep acting like everything is OK. I want to stay strong and be a man she would love to be with. Happy, funny, loving, caring, devoted, strong, decisive, and motivational.

The past couple of days she has acted like she really wants to be around me - and real close too. We've had to work together a few days during the week and she always come back to my office to check on me.

I've got the sneaky suspicion it's not really me as it is the OM. Maybe he wants out - even if it's temporary. And maybe my wife is worried about losing both of us. I mean, hell, she had cake. You know? What good is life without cake?

I have a question if anyone is reading and can help. With this 180 thing, can I be a little questionable with my whereabouts and what I'm doing? Can I act completely different like something else has my attention? If so, how readily available do I make myself when she calls or needs me? Sometimes I intentionally miss her calls or IMs. I don't want to push her away and sometimes I'm afraid I will do that.

If the OM is still around she doesn't have to worry. That's the thing. I don't really know if he is or not. She stopped all contact with him in the past then they started talking again. And she lied, lied, lied until I grabbed her phone from her one night and saw the text.

I'm in limbo right now. No direction. No motivation. Sometimes.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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#2167622 - 07/13/11 02:00 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
Forgive me for basically writing as I would in a diary but it seems to help a little.

My wife has been working in my office a few days a week. I like it because I know what she's doing throughout the day. Where as her being at home all day she can do whatever she like and with who she likes.

I've been emailing my pastor and he wants to counsel us but I'm not going to press it with my wife. He wouldn't charge us which will be great since we're almost broke right now.

I'm really trying to stay positive and happy when I'm around her. I want her to see me as someone she really wants to be around. Someone she doesn't want to lose.

For the past few days she's had a real needy spirit. She wants to me to be real close to her and hold her. This may sound great but actually it's real confusing. Because she will be like this and I will give in and get comfortable with it then she'll act as if I don't matter. This is only (in my heart) to make sure I'm around in case she needs 'a man' - not me in general.

How do I deal with this? How do I make it turn into something positive? I want everything I do make a step in the right direction no matter how painful or difficult.

Another thing I need to work on is paranoia. She had an affair and if it's over - even just for a short while - I'm always thinking that she's looking for someone else to be with instead of trying to work on us. Even guys in our office. She's a very pretty woman and guys look at her all the time. It's never bothered me in the past. I used it as motivation. She was mine and it made me feel good about me. Now I'm starting to get real paranoid and angry - but I don't show it.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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#2167679 - 07/13/11 05:20 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
I made a big no-no today.

We went to lunch and I told her she has to decide whether it's me or him. Because I'm ready to move on and not be a door mat. She's having her cake and just shoving it under my nose.

Tell me all the reasons why I shouldn't have pressured her. Please.
I just want to move on and find a new life if she cannot trust me to make her's better.

The conversation was pretty good actually and I came out with some answers. One, she's not sure what she wants. That! Is an answer for me. The one I didn't want actually. But still, an answer.

Now I'm going to leave it alone for a while. Maybe she'll come to me and tell me straight up. If not, I have to make the decision.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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#2167916 - 07/14/11 08:26 AM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
Our conversation continued when we got home. I told her how I really felt about the affair. How it made me feel less than a man.

It does. I feel like I cannot provide her with everything she needs and she is showing me how inadequate I am. Beyond that how much my heart aches knowing that she's looking at me thinking about him. When she's out I get phone calls because she has to. He gets them because she wants to.

She cannot look me in the eye and tell me we are worth the fight. I keep getting blamed for why she's doing what she's doing. The changes I've made are very noticeable but too late. She says she does know what the right thing to do is but she's tired of trying to do what's right in everyone else's eyes. Even though she agrees we need help to save us she cannot make it heartfelt.

I am so lost right now. I've almost stopped praying and have come to a conclusion that either God isn't there or has spun us into existence and sat back to watch the circus. There's no comfort in my spirit. No guidance. No help in the struggle. Every day I get the feeling that I have no hope and my wife is gone for good. I should check out and find somebody else to share the rest of my life with. I need to realize my daughters will struggle sooner or later. So why not sooner so they have the rest of the summer to build a tolerance to the pain.

Should I back off and let her do what she's doing? We live together and sometimes can be intimate. We also are working together a few days a week. We have lunch together on those days. Ride to and from work. So we're in constant contact. I don't know what to do. What path I should be on. My prayers are dead. So is my heart.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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#2168971 - 07/18/11 01:12 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
Rough Friday. I stayed home to get some things done around the house. My wife had to go to a meeting then run some errands. I've realized how absolutely tough it is when I don't know what she's doing. My trust in her is all but gone. And to make matters worse she's not one to continually let me know where she is or what she's doing. To me, building trust isn't on her agenda.

I tried to stay busy and keep my mind off of it but I got overwhelmed by the thoughts of what she had done and what's going on. And the nagging questions that may never be answered honestly.

My daughters were there so I tried to stay as strong as possible and not show them anything but a good dad. They don't know what's going on really. I want them to have security in their lives. I want them to feel safe and loved.

At one point I got on my knees and cried out to God. And just cried. The battle in my heart is too strong sometimes and I cannot bear it.

When she came home things did get better and I chalked it up to a victory in our walk. Though I still don't know what's going on while I'm not around. I don't know when she calls him or goes to see him. And typing this pains me more than anything. Just the fact that I'm getting walked on and kicked around by the woman I love grips me with such trepidation, anger, and darkness.

We did have a good evening with a bit of love making. I chalk that up too because it was so driven by passion unlike times before. I made it my priority (like I should always) to make her feel like the world vanished.

Saturday I had to train (endurance athlete) away from home. My training has really fell short and my races have become battles that I cannot win no matter what. I see a parallel between my racing and my marriage. I feel like I'm losing both competitions. Anyway, the whole time I was thinking about my wife and her whereabouts and what she may be thinking of. Several times I just fogged out during my training and had to wake myself up.

When I got home - a lot earlier than expected - my wife was still in bed and my youngest daughter was getting up. We had plans to go to the amusement park and have some fun. The weather was nice and it would be a good day to ride the coasters. Early on, while getting ready, my wife was distant. Something was on her mind and I didn't want to pry - as hard as it was to find out.

When we finally got out the door and to the park things got a lot better. She was so close to me and held on to me. The feelings I had and the security were nothing I've experienced in months. My oldest daughter (step-daughter, 16) and her boyfriend met us later. I made sure we rode stuff together. I made the day awesome for all of them. And it was really. The rest of the night was pretty good but we were so exhausted that nothing else happened when we got home as much as I wanted it to.

She's still so beautiful to me. So lovely in many ways. Her heart is so big and so caring sometimes it hurts to think I'm not in it.

Sunday we went to church. My daughter sat between us so we weren't holding hands or anything and she actually asked about it later. I just told her I wanted her to make some moves. When we got home, however, things changed again. She started acting secretive and I got depressed. Depressed because I want to know but I don't want to press her. I want to back off but I want to be right there to make sure she's not doing anything.

She could sense I was down in the dumps so it made a wedge between us. I decided to go to the paint store to get some stuff to finish our bathroom and closet. Our house is a wreck after our closet shelves collapsed. This is my project while she's out of town with the girls. Something to keep me busy and my mind off things.

I came back and finished the bathroom and we actually started talking a little bit. Things got better before the night was over and we became close again while watching one of our favorite shows.

The evening ended OK but I still couldn't shake the feelings. All the ups and downs wore me out. And today hasn't started. I'm not sure what mood she will be in and there's this nagging thought that any second she'll just up and tell me it's over. I can sense confusion in her heart.

I want to cast that confusion out of her completely. I want to be the one and only.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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#2169349 - 07/19/11 05:16 PM Re: I may be walking away if there's no light of hope [Re: tpc1977]
tpc1977 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 197
Loc: NC, USA
Almost afraid to write this.

We had a real good evening last night. She's getting ready to go to visit her sister out of state. Her father is taking her, our daughters, and a few other grandkids in his van. Last night she went out for a bit to shop for her sister and her sister's kids to take them presents. She told me she would be home at 6:30 but I didn't get a phone call until 6:45.

I was all panic-stricken wondering what she was really up to. There are times when I just can handle the thoughts going through my mind. I get slammed with thoughts of her seeing the other guy and it crushes me.

Well, everything was just fine. She shopped a lot. For her, for me, for our kids, for her sister and family. And she brought bags in to prove it. (Not that I was asking).

I spent my time, as best as I could, on work that needed to be done in our closet and bathroom. And when she got home she wanted to help. We decided to hang a few mirrors she bought. She acted excited about it. So I was excited too. At one point while I was drilling holes and putting in anchors, I asked if she was worried about me while she was gone. It was sort of a conversation opener because I wanted to ask questions as well. She told me she was worried. I asked why. She said that I have every reason to not be faithful to her since she hadn't been. I tried to reassure her that I had no intention on doing anything to damage whatever has been rebuilt.

But I also told her that I was worried about her too. She has free reign to call whoever whenever and I won't be there to snoop around. Her face told me something. I don't want to get excited and hopeful by a look. I don't want to get that way from words either. But she told me that wasn't going to happen. Her face told the same story.

Her family isn't one to force her to do the right thing. To me, they'll go with whatever decision she makes. It's heart-wrenching because I'm alone in this. My family doesn't know, my kids don't know, and only a few friends of mine do. But they aren't very supportive. What can they do really? Guys are sort of straight when it comes to this. "Leaver her!" It's easy when you're on one side of it and not the other.

During the night we talked about a few things and she mentioned that she really has been trying to make me and our marriage her priority. She also told me she "was" considering counseling. Then we finished the back room and started getting romantic. It was great until our daughter walked in on us. I can still see the shocked look on her face when she saw her mother "wrestling" her father. So that ended abruptly.

But here's my warped mind. Here's where I start cursing every good step we take. I start thinking that she only tells me these things to keep me at bay until she picks the right time to leave me. She has no intention to work on us because I'll always be here like the doormat I am. She can do whatever the heck she wants to whoever she wants and I'll just be the submissive slave to take the beatings when she wants to administer them.

Or

She's telling me this so I won't go and do something crazy while she's gone. I'm home to finish the house and watch TV. Train on the days I train and that's about it. She knows my recently divorced, best friend wants to take me out for a good time. He knows our situation and she knows he knows. Why would she not reassure me that we're "going to work on things?" If I thought we weren't I'd go out and have a grand ole time at the local topless bars, or strip clubs, or pick up some street walkers, or whatever she thinks I'll be doing.

I don't think she has this understanding that I want to really repair the damage and have no intention on destroying anything that has been built - even if it was in the last couple of days.

All in all, things have been a little better. I have put my foot back in the front door. But the door is still somewhat open because I still don't know what's going on in her pretty, little head and I'm tired of the stress. The muscles in my neck are so tight right now that I constantly have a headache and my neck pops when I turn it. I've never been this stressful in all my life.
_________________________
Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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