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Originally Posted By: mastateflower
RMG,

It has been siad on these pages that there must be a book written on how to be a "walk away". They all seem to do and say the same things regardless of the situation.

There must also be a book on how to be the OW/OM. These people just seem to know what to say and how to say it that solidifies their own positions and ends all hope of saving the marriage.

You know things like - He/she never understood you like I do. You're a wonderful person who has been taken for granted. You never did anything wrong. You deserve happiness...can't you hear it?

Gigi


Gigi,

Yes.... I can hear it.....

But it is like anything..... You know what is right... You know what is wrong..... When you are married, you DO NOT talk to someone of the opposite sex outside of immediate family about your M...... You talk to the SAME SEX if anyone beside your spouse.....

The really disturbing thing is these people are so mentally AND emotionally screwed up, they choose to NOT SEE they are being manipulated by this person playing "saviour"........ They are plain stupid..... No other way to say it....

How would any sane woman react to the following?

Quote:
I know your H does NOT understand you like I do. You deserve so much more. Jump into bed with me!


They would want to kick him in the balls!!! They would be thinking... WAIT!! I am going through all this emotional turmoil... and you want to do is be romantic with me? Don't you care about me? If you were a GOOD PERSON, you would be encouraging me to work on my M... Am I just another piece of a$$?

Am I right or wrong here?

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

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RMG.... Homie.... some honest reflections on the section of your thread...

Quote:
INSTEAD.... She chose to do the following:

Shut herself off from me.....
Share with OM just how "bad" I was......
I am 100% certain OM got her to dredge up every single thing I had done wrong....
I am 100% certain OM "convinced" her I had multiple affairs....

She allowed all of this to happen......
She opened the door to the demise of the M....
She simply could have been a woman of integrity and brought the issues to me....


First parts about your X shutting off from you and opening up to OM and amplifying your faults.... I can totally relate. I am reading a book right now by Dr. Gottman that documents how frequently couples in distress re-write history so they can rationalize leaving based on how bad their marriage was.

They usually cannot bring themselves to leave until they convince themselves and others that the spouse they leave behind was heinous and awful in some manner.

Furthermore, this is exactly where my X went with it all. We were regarded by many, including those that knew us well as a "perfect couple". And I was referred to as an "Exemplary Father" and "Super Dad". Her parents thanked me for how well I treated and cared for their daughter.

Now, she has completely minimized and re-written those instances of history. She has painted such a bad picture of me and told everyone that those were all illusions. (I must be one hell of an actor... funny.... I remember they were genuinely great times).

So if this is any comfort to you, know that I experienced the exact same thing and Dr. Gottman scientifically observed the exact same thing over and over and over for many, many years of studying marriages. It is just what they do.



May I challenge you a bit on the second part of post where its listed the things she should have done? I do not disagree with one thing on your list. I would just caution you as a brother in relationship recovery that it is dangerous to get wound up in what others should have done.

From your other posts, you seem to have an awareness that you had a part in where your relationship went. I respect that honesty and self-assessment. That takes maturity that a lot of walk-away spouses may never know. Honest self-assessment is a foundation to growth and recovery from a sitch like what we have gone through.

Can I challenge you a bit on the notion that your X allowed all of this to happen? In my experience, and I have walked a very similar pathway to you, in my experience, we betrayed spouses had a part in where our marriage went too. In my case, I have found it a lot more healing and growth oriented to say that "I allowed all of this to happen"... and I have said almost those exact words.

Even though she ended the marriage and took up with a friend who left his wife for my ex in a highly painful and complicated situation, I still had a part in getting the R to where this could happen.

Even if my part were just not stopping it before it went to far (which in fact my part was far greater than that)... but even if it were only 2% and my X's part was 98%, my growth and recovery will come from my accepting of responsibility for my 2%. I will gian nothing by looking at only her 98%. I will just stay hurt.

On the contrary, it feels and looks like my X is so fixated on my part in things, that she is completely oblivious to her greater part. I could be wrong but it certainly feels and looks that way by me and all other onlookers.

So here is the a rigorously honest quesiton that you will probably find great value in answering for yourself. Not for me or anyone else, but for you.

How did you help the R get to the point where she was able to make a choice like hooking up with the OM?

Believe me brother, I know the pain of betrayal. And I am not trying to minimize what has happened to you. I am a suburban Dad and professional with an education that turned to a wicked narcotic after I found out about my XW and OM. It was that painful to me. So I respect that you may have been in agony.

For me, I can answer that Q by saying I neglected her, treated her like a trophy, took her for granted, and flaunted her in front of the OM to show how great I was for having such an appealing W. I let pride and complacency slip in and it ran me over. This does not excuse what she did but it sure made it easier for her to do.

I offer you the above question to help support your recovery.

Lets keep the dialogue going eh?

Ciao

Chaz

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Originally Posted By: Chazz
How did you help the R get to the point where she was able to make a choice like hooking up with the OM?

Believe me brother, I know the pain of betrayal. And I am not trying to minimize what has happened to you. I am a suburban Dad and professional with an education that turned to a wicked narcotic after I found out about my XW and OM. It was that painful to me. So I respect that you may have been in agony.

For me, I can answer that Q by saying I neglected her, treated her like a trophy, took her for granted, and flaunted her in front of the OM to show how great I was for having such an appealing W. I let pride and complacency slip in and it ran me over. This does not excuse what she did but it sure made it easier for her to do.


Chaz,

I am so there with you in all of this......

What did I do wrong? A lot of things....

I did not make her feel important... Even though she was....

I did not take the time to check our M.... As how she feels about our M.....

I was too concerned about my work and career....

I neglected her.... One VERY IMPORTANT argument happened the day she moved out..... We were talking.... All of a sudden, she started yelling at me...... She said, "This WILL teach you NOT to neglect your wife." I said, "I had NO clue. Why DIDN'T you tell me?" That frankly was an opening I should have hit.... I was just really done at that point... I just wanted to move away from the pain... I should have really ignored the DB mantra.... and told her.... I love you BUT you are choosing to leave the M.... It is out of my hands....

There were lots of other things... I never cheated or physically abused her.......

I need to stop writing about this right now. It is hitting me like a ton of bricks........ I need to step back for a while.....

Right or wrong..... All I can think about is how much I loved her......

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

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Chaz,

I am feeling a bit better now..... I climbed out from under the pile of bricks.... Got up and dusted off (again).....

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

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Glad to hear it.

We seem to migrate to the bottom of the pile of bricks from time to time. Eh?

Its ok.... there are pains woven through us that we will only ever discover in time.

I have been thinking about this rebound theme. Frankly, I am still at the conclusion that a good rebound, as long as it doesnt leave us stuck in a commitment we cant handle, is a good gateway back into healthier life.

Honestly, I cant see it any other way. Some sort of fling. Preferrably a little on the wild side of what we were once used to.

I am not convinced that there isnt some theraputic value in one of these.

Ciao.

Chaz

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Chazz,

Yes, we all do end up under a pile of bricks from time to time.... It is tough... But, it is a part of the process....

As for the rebound relationships, I did have a wild fling as you described when my first serious relationship ended..... That was most therapeutic....

When Kim and I married, I was a very different man.... I felt God had called me to a higher standard... When the marriage ended... I felt if I had a fling like that again, I was not much better than my adulterous exW......

I am not trying to say I am perfect.. Far from.... But, I felt it was important to wait for my new W... For me, I did not think it is right to "try out" other women.....

Plus, I did not want Kim to be able to look at me and say... "Yeah, he is a good "Christian" guy.... Nailing all of those women.... He IS REALLY different! Right!"

Take Care,

RMG

Last edited by RMG77739; 11/05/08 11:46 PM.

"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

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Although a sober alcoholic for a number of years now, I still contend that the debauchery-riddled drunken bender is a great way to get one's ex out of their system and back in to the dating world. As long as you survive!

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Chazz--
I can attest that you can go out on a "bender" with no alcohol involved! (See badass bike guy I saw for a few months).
Still didn't get x out of my system, though.

I think I have come to the conclusion that I am one person who will always love their x, a true unconditional love. I just have to learn to live without him in my life.

I know that I won't ever love another the way that I love him, if only for having grown up with him, having my children with him. Anything that comes along after will be very different. Better? That remains to be seen. I don't think I will care for another as completely...

I keep thinking back to that sappy movie, the Titanic. How, after the death of Jack, she goes on to live a rich and happy life, gets married, has kids....but it is back to him that her soul goes to meet. I wonder if I will meet the memory of my x some day, the one I loved and who loved me. In my naiveate, I hope that he isn't gone forever, that understanding may come in the next life if not in this.

But hope is empty; it hasn't served me well, but kept me in denial. Only acceptance now, in the hard reality of life. It just is. And we go on, because what else is there to do?

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Donna,

What you write is so very true. I really do not know if I will ever be able to love as innocently and naively as I did with exW.

NMD


"Chains do not hold a marriage together. It is threads, hundreds of tiny threads which sew people together through the years. That is what makes a marriage last --more than passion or even sex!" - Simone Signoret
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I wouldn't worry about that. In my experience, open-eyed, non-naive is a lot more genuine, a lot more authentic, a lot richer, a lot more intimate, and a lot deeper.

When people do get to the other side of an A and talk about how much better their M is, this is why.

As far as quality of romantic Rs, there is certainly much to be gained through this process that leads to a place where better love is possible.


Best,
Oldtimer
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