All, I’ve been asked to start a new thread…. I have copied my last response on this thread to make it easier for folks.
Oh….and here are the links to all of my old threads….for those who are interested in seeing anger, whining, pain, love, pretty much all of the sh!t that we the LBS’s go through ya may want to give some of the early ones a read.
That is exactly what I am doing. Doesn’t make it less painful and frustrating – that said, I am detached enough to recognize that my sons issues/anger are his to deal with. I will be there for him when and if he is ready.
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But, I would add that you should not be talking to his friends about him at all. Not appropriate in my book. And if he ever finds out, it aint gonna be pretty.
I do not ask his friends about my son. They actually come to me to vent about a lot of things, some of which are about my son. I listen and most often do not have any comment other than, “son” is dealing with a lot.
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No disrespecting you
This is exactly my boundary. Son is not one to outright disrespect me. It is more the tone and body language he displays when speaking to me.
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It may take a long while
Yep….he may or may not ever figure out a way to deal with his anger. Either way, I just keep loving him when the opportunity presents itself.
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Are you approaching his friends or are they coming to you?
They approach me Jack. Trust me I know better than to ask/pry.
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I am not turning them away. I am not feeding them information to gain them as my friends either.
I’m not Jack. I just listen. I do not feed them any info. My only comments are along the lines of…leave him alone, he has a lot that he is dealing with, etc. No details about STBXW, the history behind what happened with the M, etc.
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Doesn't mean I don't love you, but if you give me attitude I'll break it."
That is the approach that I am trying to take with him. Firm to the point and strict boundaries. We barely speak these days as he does not come over. When we do speak I usually just ask him how he is doing and I remind him that I love him. It really is all that I can do.
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You have often said DBing is really a way of life
It is Antonia…and trust me…It is how I deal with everyone in my life.
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You say his personality closely resembles his Mothers ?
I say this for several reasons….
RIGHT NOW Both are spoiled teenagers wanting what the want with no sense of responsibility or who they hurt in the process. Her cause by her own MLC, his I believe is typical teenage behavior. They both IMO have self confidence issues. My feeling is as they are now facing life…they are scared. Normal behavior imo. They both are the oldest children and feel the need to protect the younger ones.
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How much do you address him, the way you address her ?
I actually deal with both of them much the same. I am pleasant but short and to the point. With my son I do try and communicate my love in the form of an “I love you”, which he never responds to but I want him to know that I am here for him. Funny….in one way I have taken on detachment to a new level.
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Your son WILL look toward you again one day, perhaps he is already looking toward you
I am sure that he is….what I will not allow is behavior towards me that is disrespectful. I also feel that I need to show him that HIS choices will drive his life. Although he is angry and has a lot to deal with it does not give him a free pass to deal and treat people anyway he wants. Let me give you an example:
This past week my youngest son broke up with his girlfriend (she cheated or so I am told). My youngest asked me how to deal with it and I gave him my thoughts on the matter. Be respectful, do not attack her, focus on your happiness, understand that you did not cause her to cheat, etc. Youngest did pretty much what I was told….here is where it get interesting….I am at work last week and I get a call from the mother of the x of my youngest (15)…she starts screaming at me that my oldest (17) has started attacking her on facebook. She actually read what he posted and honestly I was embarrassed. I explained to the mother that I would speak with my son about this. When I did…..here is a short version of the convo….
Me – Son why did you attack the mother of youngest son X girlfriend?
Son – cause she is a slut.
Me – Why do you say that?
Son – cause she cheated on my brother just like my girlfriend did to me.
Me – so you feel that this gives you the right to critize her mother?
Son – yes – I was angry. I am allowed to vent right?
Me – Yes you can vent; however doing so in a public forum is really not appropriate.
Son – well I was angry.
Me – I understand you were angry – that said, being angry does not give you the right to do whatever it is you feel like doing.
Son – well she is a slut and must have learned that cheating is okay from her MOTHER (interesting enough STBXW was standing right next to me and put her head down)
Me – Why do you say that son?
Son – cause she must have learned it from her mother.
Me – really?
Son – Yes. It must have been how she was raised.
Me – really…so let me ask you a question…..did your mother and I raise you to respond to her the way you did?
Son – silent
Me – Cause if everything WE CHOOSE to do is the result of how we were raised, then YOUR actions are saying that YOUR MOTHER, who stood home to raise you, and I did a piss poor job. Bottom line son is that X gf is responsible for HER actions - we all are. We can give ourselves excuses if we want but at the end of the day each of us chooses how we live, react, respond and deal with everything in our life. SO EVEN if her mom did cheat, her D STILL made a choice to do it.
Son – okay so I was wrong
Me – Yes you were out of line. It is okay to be angry.
Son – well I needed to vent
Me – don’t you have a therapist to do that with?
Son – yes but I still needed to vent
Me – Understood, then maybe you should give some thought to other ways to vent.
Son – well I am sorry.
Me – BTW, her mother could have made a complaint against your mother and I.
Son – why…I did it…you guys didn’t
Me – cause right now you are still in minor in the eyes of society.
Son – that makes not sense.
Me – it is what it is. In any event she is not going to make a complaint against you. I am going to call her back.
Son – Well I am sorry.
Me – Do you feel that you owe her mother an apology?
Son – maybe but her D is still a cheating slut. Ya know I allowed her in the family. We took and accepted her in and she cheats on my brother.
Me – YOUR brother made the CHOICE to date her. It was HIS CHOICE. SO it was his issues to deal with and I believe he did.
Son – well he is my brother
Me – Yes he is and he loves you very much and I know that you love him very much. That said, it is not YOUR job to always protect him. He is a big boy and can take care of himself. Did he ask you your opinion? Did he ask for your help?
Son – no but he is my brother.
Me – I understand that. When your girlfriend cheated on you did he go on to facebook and blast her and her mother.
Son – No.
Me – can you see where you may have gone wrong.
Son – Maybe
Me – Son, I have said this to you before, everyone is responsible for their actions. They are responsible for there choices. Maybe your brother just needed you to listen. Maybe he did nto need you to try and rescue him. Son, sometime we need to let people learn and grow on their own. We need to let them live their lives and be their for them when and IF they want us to be. It was a lesson that your brother needed to learn. That said, I do understand how much you love your brother.
Son – I have to go to work.
Me – I will contact son X’s mom and apologize on your behalf.
Mach, it was an interesting exchange. The funny thing is that STBXW was standing there and did not say much at all. I dealt with my son as a father. I tried to validate and correct him where I could. So hopefully the above exchange answer your question of what am I showing him. If not, here is my answer to that question.
I am showing him how to…..
be respectful to women
that he is NOT entitled to do or say whatever he wants, whenever he wants.
What a man and father is
Showing him compassion and understanding
At the end of the day I am his father and as someone so eloquently reminded me…I am the template of what a father is. What I am trying to show him is RESPECT….respect for others, respect for his parents, respect for himself.
Once again, thank you all for your responses.
Final update....I had one kick butt weekend!
God Bless, Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Appreciate the response and I see your point. I did call to appologize initally, as the x girlfrients mother was quite upset. That said, I did tell my oldest son that he would need to appologize directly to the mother.
So...I did "save" for the time being given the sensativity of the sitch (I was amazed and disgusted at what my son wrote), AND made him accountable.
Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Appreciate the response and I see your point. I did call to appologize initally, as the x girlfrients mother was quite upset. That said, I did tell my oldest son that he would need to appologize directly to the mother.
So...I did "save" for the time being given the sensativity of the sitch (I was amazed and disgusted at what my son wrote), AND made him accountable.
Eric
You saved him from the true consequences of his actions by being the buffer. Now when he apologizes he won't feel the impact. You can "I know, I know" your way through this one if you want E, but I'm sorry ... I still see it as saving and fixing. Sensitive or not, it was HIS responsibility to mend the fence ... now he's not accountable, he's going to merely go through the motions, all the while knowing Daddy already took care of it and softened whatever consequences (her outrage/reaction) might be naturally occuring.
IMHO of course
Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
I disagree. Without getting into too much details, the mother was upset enough to take actions that my son is too young and stupid to comprehend i.e lawsuit against not him...his parents.
In his anger, he may have responded back in a manner that made the sitch worse for everyone involved rather make it worse for me.
Thier is a time and place for these type of lessons - this one was not one of them. Leaving him to confront the woman directly (and trust me she was not thinking rationally either) would have been a disaster. Would it have taught him a lesson...yes...at what expense? To prove a point to "force" him to see something.
Nah...this was not the time. It was time to show him some of what he needs to learn. We all learn at different paces, throwing someone to wolves is not always the correct action. Although it would have felt good.
Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Whoa! I didn't say throw him to the wolves (nor did I insinuate that you should throw yourself to the wolves to teach him a lesson) ... and sure, you folks live in a much more litigious society than I do, so I sometimes forget about that side of it. HOWEVER, I still think that apologizing ON HIS BEHALF is the potential mistake here. You can have a conversation with her, explain your intention and actions as his parent, express your own remorse for the situation at hand etc. But you said you were calling her to apologize on his behalf. I'd want him scared. He should be. He acted like an a$$. Oh, and having him confront her? Who said anything about confronting? If it's too potentially explosive to have him make the apology in person or via the telephone ... a good old fashioned letter might be the answer. I'd also make him put it in the mailbox in person ... but I'm kinda "mean" like that
Just my 2 cents E ...
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Eric - very tough situation that you handled overall very well. Right or wrong - I probably would have made the initial call too - as deep down I believe that if my kid is under 18 I am responsible. Still would make him call and do the same. Like I said - have no idea whats right or wrong - just gut.
Hi PEI! Was wondering about you the other day!
M-48/XH-48 M=25/T=28 years Ds-24,22/S-18 D - 3/11 A Day at a Time
Without getting into too much details, the mother was upset enough to take actions that my son is too young and stupid to comprehend i.e lawsuit against not him...his parents.
In his anger, he may have responded back in a manner that made the sitch worse for everyone involved rather make it worse for me.
And here is the rub...
E, you were protecting yourself and maybe rightfully so...
Personally, I think I would have been present either on the phone or better yet, in person to MONITOR his words and her reactions. Smoothing things over with her (as an adult) after the fact if need be...
While not throwing him to the wolves, there is a time, place, and age where they have to hold responsibility for themselves. 18 is the magic LEGAL age, but those are lessons that they should be learning before then...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Awww, am I the only one seeing the white elephant standing in the room? Is it just possible that his lashing out like he did, his true anger was at someone other than the ex gf or her Mom?. It seems his statements might have been aimed a bit closer to home, but he is not quite up to stating it.
I assume son is not blind to what has been going on with his parents and probably knows more than you would wish. His anger might have been more directed at the woman standing next to him with her head down. Just sayin' . . . .
Otherwise, I think you handled things beautifully, Eric, and wish my XH could have been so wise a father figure. I do agree with JTB and Pei, but it is far easier to say than to do when it comes to the protection of our own children, even if we know that is the 'tough love' that they need. Their hurt is our hurt x 10.
