... I think he feels that a healthy sexual relationship simply involves more sex and my definition of a healthy sexual relationship includes feeling respected and cared about while engaging sexually.
What specific decisions or actions could your husband choose to do that would make you feel respected and cared about?
I got disconnected there, but what I was getting at, you would like to have your husband make you feel certain feelings, can you list out certain specific things that he could do that would create those feelings in you? So that he could understand exactly how his decisions and actions can connect to your feelings?
If you could list those out, would he be willing to do those actions for you? You know, most HD partners are highly motivated to make lovemaking better. They just have a hard time understanding what the LD partner wants :> If you are telling him you want to feel a certain way, then he may be confused and frustrated because he does not know how to create those feelings. He will need to be told what actions create those feelings in you...?
As for the thoughts about leaving, I try to be very honest about about my thoughts and feelings, but I am also careful not to use the possibility of leaving as a threat to be manipulative. The bottom line is that I am not entertaining any thoughts of leaving, I want to find a way to work it out.
As for feeling respected and cared about, my discussions here have made it very clear to me that my H is a physically oriented person and I am more of a psychologically oriented person - no technical terms here, just my own observations - so for my H the fix is simple, more sex. When it comes to him helping me, the touchy-feely stuff is not so well defined. trying4years, I think you are spot on. I ahve tried to explain, but he doesn't get it. I will keep trying to describe what I want in more concrete terms.
My primary language of love is touch and I am HD. My secondary language of love is words of affirmation (praise).
While I mistakenly thought that the biggest problem between my wife and myself was frequency and then quality of sex, I learned that it was really our making each other feel loved and respected.
My wife has learned to make me feel loved through touch and sex. She finds sex easier than touch, which I find frustrating as there are times that I really need to be hugged or touched in a loving way and want that much more than sex.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy frequent sex, but I also deeply need to be touched.
The reason that I bring this up is your comment about it being obvious that the fix for your husband is "more sex." That may be a temporary fix, but there may also be a deeper need for touch that you are not yet aware of.
For my wife after I figured out what her languages of love were (acts of devotion & quality time) I could figure out ways to making her feel loved. I now try to bring her coffee in bed in the morning, make the bed while she is in the shower, fill her car with gasoline each week, do the dishes each night as acts of devotion that say to her "I love you." I also try to spend some time connecting with her in bed while we drink coffee in the morning and at night when we have dinner so she gets the quality time she needs to "feel loved." We also try to go for walks on some weekend days to spend time together talking and walking.
Good luck to you.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
I forgot to mention that I would be out of touch for a bit...I went on vacation, and it was just my H & I. I wish I could say that we came home with all of our problems solved, but we didn't. It wasn't horrible either though.
In response to Young At Heart, I would say that my husband's primary languages of love are physically oriented, and I would say that with the exception of sex, I do touch him quite a bit. I would say that it is he who has not yet embraced the idea of "making each other feel loved and respected" He has been unhappy or unfulfilled and fighting to have his own needs met with the general idea that when he is happy then he will automatically make me happy. This is totally understandable, but did not help us get to a better placce.
As it turns out, something about our vacation together clicked with him and he has been trying to be a different person since we got home. I recognize this and would like to embrace it. In the past when he has made efforts at change, I was leary and basically stood at a distance to see what would happen. Inevitably, he would feel that his efforts were for nothing because I was non-responsive and he would give up. This time I would like to be more responsive and positively reinforce his efforts...but I also want to do it at my own pace. I need help though, because, honestly (even if irrationally), I am afraid.
... As it turns out, something about our vacation together clicked with him and he has been trying to be a different person since we got home. I recognize this and would like to embrace it. In the past when he has made efforts at change, I was leary and basically stood at a distance to see what would happen. Inevitably, he would feel that his efforts were for nothing because I was non-responsive and he would give up. This time I would like to be more responsive and positively reinforce his efforts...but I also want to do it at my own pace. I need help though, because, honestly (even if irrationally), I am afraid.
I would encourage you to have the confidence to strongly reinforce any positive behavior. You are here, you want to make things better, you are putting effort into this, this is an excellent way to make the decision to make things better! If he is starting to make positive changes too he seems to be on board. Help him to be highly skilled at and make a habit of delivering your needs! You will be amazed at what a spouse that has their needs taken care of can and will do.
This can be a 2 steps forward 1 back type progress, so whenever you have a chance to take a step forward, take it!
+1 We are all (to some extent) involved in "conditioning" and creating responses from our spouses by our actions and in action.
Positive and loving feedback for things we like is important. It is important to thank our spouse for what they do right rather than just critisize them for what they do wrong.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
...and once again, I was too slow for his patience. I asked him to help me move along in small steps to help me feel comfortable opening up to him, but once he is out of patience the only thing he can think about apparently is having his need met. We have this pattern, he tries to work with me but runs out of patience because I move too slowly for him; I don't want to leave him feeling frustrated/unloved so I tell him that I am not yet at a place where I want to have sex with him or feel comfortable with it but I agree to let him do what he needs to do, then I feel angry and resentful with myself for letting him touch me in a way that I don't feel good about and angry at him for taking advantage of me and not loving me enough to have the patience to work with me. I know that it is not healthy for me and I tell him so. I suspect that it is not a rewarding experience for him either, so why does he continue to repeat the pattern??? Honestly, I can't imagine how he feels connected with me in the slightest bit in a situation when I've told him that I am not comfortable and feeling angry with him but he continues a sexual encounter that does not feel good to either of us. He seems to think that his touch will persuade me to feel excited, but in actuality I just feel angry that he is ignoring what I am telling him about how I feel and what I want.
When it is clear that he is trying to make a change and be patient with me, I admit that I feel leary of him, but I also do try to let it go, I am more affectionate, touchy, close, playfull, etc, but within a couple of days he wants sex and he wants it now and leaves me feeling like those aspects of the relationship don't matter at all.
I don't know how to be more sexual with him when I no longer find his interactions with me appealing at all. I know that we could use the help of a sex therapist but there is not one in the town where we live or anywhere near. I also have trouble focusing on how to improve myself in our situation when we have two busy teenage kids, I work full time, manage our rental property, am the bookkeeper for his business and he constantly needs attention. He thinks self-help and counseling are ridiculous so we can't even work cooperatively on trying something suggested by an outside source. I am feeling beyond frustrated today!
"...so why does he continue to repeat the pattern??? Honestly, I can't imagine how he feels connected with me in the slightest bit in a situation when I've told him that I am not comfortable and feeling angry with him but he continues a sexual encounter that does not feel good to either of us...."
Be careful for what you wish for....
Having been there......he does it because he is desparate deep down inside to feel connected to you, actually to anyone.
He needs, on a primal level, to feel connected with someone else. He needs to feel loved, to feel comforted, to feel desired, and even if he isn't, he still needs those things and you are as good as it gets for him.
It was only after I worked on getting a life and decided my wife's action would determine if we divorced or not, and focused on my being my source of strength and happiness that I stopped engaging in destructive sex with my wife. Ultimately she decided she preferred to stay married and we worked hard to rebuild a relationship that is stronger than it was for many years.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
It makes me feel sad and angry to think that throughout my relationship I have tried to work with my partner to help him feel loved and connected - to the point where it had the complete opposite effect for me, instead of loving him more deeply, I love him less (if you can even measure love). Obviously I am still working on it, but it seems like he sabotages my efforts. I know he doesn't mean to...
Do you think there is a way that I could help him understand that I do love him and am making efforts but that a change in approach or perspective on his part would greatly benefit our relationship? I mean, some of you HD posters have managed to make change in your relationship, but it sounds like it really took a turning point in your belief about the situation to truly bring about that change - so how can I assist my partner in coming to that realization that you have had?
