Bustorama- Thread #2

[Steve McQueen]

I said to say something like, "I've already apologized for that" if she keeps bringing it up. You're not invalidating her, your are pointing out you already owned it, and you aren't telling her to get over it. Let her figure that out.

and throw a book at her back as she walks away crying, also?
oh and swear at her. That always helps.

You can "own up" to your affair a zillion times times but in some way, shape or form the marriage and the people in it are never the same after that. Some people never get over it.

[sandi2]

Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
I said to say something like, "I've already apologized for that" if she keeps bringing it up. You're not invalidating her, your are pointing out you already owned it, and you aren't telling her to get over it. Let her figure that out.

and throw a book at her back as she walks away crying, also?
oh and swear at her. That always helps.

You can "own up" to your affair a zillion times times but in some way, shape or form the marriage and the people in it are never the same after that. Some people never get over it.

Good lord! You guys need to get things in perspective. In the first place....I didn't see where she was bringing up him having an A! But, anyway...........

If it is a matter of a woman needing to voice her feelings in order to get over something the man has done, then he should listen and show that he's concerned about what she feels. He could even ask her what he could do to help her feel better. But if it was twenty years ago, don't you think it's time to move past it?

I have known some women(notice I try to insert the word some) have taken one mistake (not necesarrily talking about adultry here) and would hold over the head of her H untill he died. She would harp on it and never let it go b/c she was able to bring the "wrong" up whenever she decided to use it against him. I've seen this ruin many M's b/c she would refuse to let it go and grow and move forward with life. It kills the R between a man & woman. I've seen some H's act more like whipped pups than men. When or if that starts to happen, it's time for him to tell her that he has apologized, it's in the past, it can't be undone, and time to move forward. Trust me, some women will not let it die until he decides to put the pants on and carry forward.

Obviously, an A would be quite a few levels apart from forgetting the Wedding anniversary. Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Some women are this way about all R's. I had a woman to get upset at me and I apologized several times but she just kept bringing it up. I finally told her that no matter how many times I apologized it would not make the mistake go away. She either forgave me or she didn't, but how many times would I have to apologize in order to make it right with her? That's just the way some people are, and it's not just women. I have known men to find fault with a Church, business, family relationships, or whatever......and it would end for them b/c they chose not to forgive and move on. Stubborness!!

[Steve McQueen]

Good lord! You guys need to get things in perspective. In the first place....I didn't see where she was bringing up him having an A! But, anyway...........

For your reference, #2059555 - 08/19/10 02:37 PM

I consider her reasons for giving an ultimatum/leaving as extremely justified, and, frankly, she had much more patience than she should have. To be blunt, I hurt her severely by allowing myself to become addicted to online computer games for 2 years, resulting in gross neglect of her and our family, and during that time I ALSO engaged in concurrent EA's with two women from the games in Fall of 2008. The EA's included the women sending me pornographic material (pics and text) that my wife discovered. I had already stopped the affairs at the time that my wife discovered the material, but I compounded her hurt by not re-engaging her and being remorseful when she gave me the chance and by continuing to play the games secretively behind her back because I was so damn addicted to them. Around May of 2009, she discovered that I was still secretively playing the games, and she fully emotionally shut down to me. We began an in-house separation at that time with me sleeping on the couch and hoping she would come around trying to do nice things for her, but she was very angry and anxious about the past EA's and my failure to accept what I should have been responsible for. During this time I did keep trying to engage her, but she pretty much didn't want any part of me.

Stubborness!!

Although You, your husband, my wife and myself may view life and relationships different than some other folks, doesn't mean we should recommend someone say "I've already apologized for that" for their sexual misdiscretions with the other sex. Some people never forget or forgive.

Trust me, some women will not let it die until he decides to put the pants on and carry forward.

So True.

[bustorama]

Hey people,

I haven't posted here in awhile, but wanted to let those of you that were following along my story before and with who I didn't keep up via email or other venues that my W and I have reconciled. She made her first definitive move back towards wanting to be back with me in April, and we have progressively rebuilt our relationship since then. Hope all is well with everyone.

[2thepoint]

Congratulations! If you would indulge those of us who are struggling, would you care to provide a synopsis of what you did and how you did it, what worked and what didn't so that we can learn and grow?

[BklynMom]

That is great! I needed to hear good news:) So happy for you.

[bustorama]

I did the usual of I think many people of overpursuing at the beginning, pleading, groveling, apologizing (and very innocuous things come across as pursuit).

Once I regained my equilibrium and found DB and the community on here, I tried to do aspects of LRT (which really is respecting and listening to your partner's decision not to be in a relationship with you at that time), giving her tons of space, stopping pursuit, totally stopped calling her, texting her, etc, and working on myself physically, emotionally, spiritually.

We had a fair amount of interaction in the context of our kids (perhaps too much?), but whenever SHE would bring up the subject of our R or past hurts I had done to her, I would validate, validate, validate. If I did anything more than just validate (like broach the idea of reconciliation or going to a counselor or anything like that), it would consistently backfire. In my case, I learned that I really could not be the initiator of any of those ideas because it didn't work (in hindsight, probably because she experienced it as invalidating her feelings of anger and resentment and as selfish, self-serving and more of ignoring her feelings on my part). In the context of these interactions, I apologized for my role in the marriage and made it clear to her that I acknowledged ways in which I had effed up and hurt her, and that I was prepared to do my share of the work to repair things.

This time also gave me the opportunity to really listen to her in ways I had not before. To try to get to know my W again and hear or see messages she had been sending to me before that I had missed or ignored. To learn the way my W communicated.

Whenever she would initiate a contact with me, I would have as much of my mojo on as I could. Warm, friendly, funny, even flirty, the guy I was before things went south between us. Not sad, droopy dog. Not homebound separated guy. Not cuckolded guy letting his W have an EA or PA on his watch, time or money. Fun, attractive, busy (but NOT pursuing) guy. Undid bad habits, tasks I had left undone for months or years, I cranked out.

I read lots of self-help/relationship books and tried to get myself a life apart from her with my kids. I did months of individual counseling both for support and for self-change.

I think all of the above helped to stop the momentum of her pulling away from me. She calmed down, less anger, stopped proceeding towards divorce, started to see me less as SATAN, starting contact me to have meals with her and the kids (or outings with her and the kids). But, she still was not taking a step back TOWARDS the R, towards 1-on-1 time with me. She was happy with limbo, not fully divorcing from me, but having me sort of around in her life. I could not live like that anymore, however.

In my opinion, what ultimately really turned things around or brought things to a head, were my trying to move on after all of the above -- a hard core form of last resort technique I suppose (and it wasn't a technique, it really was where I was at). I told her I respected her decision not to work on our marriage, that I would have preferred to work things out, but that I understood that is not what she wanted, and I would move on with my life accordingly. No anger, no threats, no pleading, just I accept this is what you want, I agree with you, and I will live my life accordingly, I will be putting my things into order to file for divorce. Then I said that I would only contact her in the context of emergency issues concerning the kids and I would only respond to her for same (not punitively, just because that's what I felt I needed to move on).

And I went full no contact and kept living my life.

For several weeks of this, there was no contact at all from her.

Then, I noticed she would try to initiate contact -- either a call or a text, or when we would be transferring the kids, she would try to make conversation. One time I went to get them and she started trying to give me all these things (gifts?) to take with me -- 'here I got you these beers at the store and here are some jelly beans and here are this and that and here take this). Through all of this, I kept trying to stick to my boundary of not contacting her unless for crisis kid issues.

After maybe a total of 2-3 months of this NC, I was going to my college reunion and was going to drop the kids off with her before I left. I noticed she had seemed different on the phone (like really warm?). When I got to her place to give her the kids, she said come here and gave me a genuine, warm hug and told me to 'be safe and be good' I wonder if the 'be good' comment meant she was scared I was going to go hook up with someone at the reunion. Anyway, while I was at reunion, she was constantly calling and texting me, and I would respond flirtingly to them. The week I got back, she called me from her work in tears saying she missed me, she missed all our good times and she wanted her old life back and how could we do that.

A wise guy told me fast is slow and slow is fast and was that ever true in my case. My W was not only angry at me, she had lost respect for and attraction to me. I had to eliminate those negative feelings and curry positive feelings, but to do so without pursuing her and driving her away. Ultimately, SHE felt the loss when I was no longer a significant part of her life. That led to her second-guessing her own decision. It wasn't me convincing her of anything. In the end, she was the one who suggested we get back together. She was the one who suggested we go on a date. She was the one who asked me to find a therapist for us. The dynamic changed so that she was invested in the R and in me -- that she was beginning to pursue.

So:

1) Accept that you cannot control your partner, or her decision or her feelings or her actions. It's selfish to try and futile anyways.

2) Instead, respect your partner's decision -- if they say they are done, you're right the current situation isn't working for me either (I wouldn't want to share my W having an EA, right?) I accept that you are done, I will live my life accordingly (i.e., give them all the space they want and more, get your own life going, get out there and enjoy what you can, distract yourself until you genuinely enjoy it)

3) Recognize your faults in the R, own them, fix them, live them

4) Recognize your value, enhance it, flaunt it, ooze it

It's not up to you whether she comes back or not. It's her choice to come back or not, but try not to put your focus on that. Put your focus on bettering yourself as an individual and in relationships. On living the best life you can. You will succeed that way no matter her choice.

[2thepoint]

Great post Busto! Thanks for sharing. I know it gives me hope for my future. You have my best wishes for your continued marital happiness!

[LITB]

Thanks for posting Bustorama and congrats on successfully DB'ing your M.

Your recap is truly appreciated. I think it is worthy of being copied into the archived forum for others to reference.

[realormakebeliev]

Wow, I am genuinely happy for you. This will give so many people here hope. Thanks so much for sharing!