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#2103303 - 11/08/10 06:43 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: TimeHeals]
sandi2 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 10951
I agree, b/c some women keep going back over past mistakes H has made and won't go forward. Once it has been discussed and apologized for....drop it and refuse to go back over it again and if she tries to bring it up....tell her that you won't get off into the past again. If she thinks that is cold hearted, so be it. It is not healthy and sometimes men just have to take a firm stand about that.

I think it is a mistake to apologize for the same thing over & over again. If you apologize 100 times for something you did or didn't do, does that mean you weren't sincere the other 99 times? I don't think men need to apologize until the woman feels better, either, b/c some won't ever feel better and will use it to hold over his head all the way into eternity.
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#2103328 - 11/08/10 07:39 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: sandi2]
bustorama Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 519
I agree totally with you guys re: her needing to move forward and not repeating the same apologies once said sincerely.

In this case, however, it was new issues that were discussed -- not about the EA at all -- and I think is closer to the core of her feeling scared and where our original R problems were. They are around a general theme of how she didn't feel "protected" by me and that is what led her to be angry at me in the first place and begin withdrawing her love and affection (after which I spiraled off into compulsive game playing and the EAs).

She told me that in her IC, they are working on childhood traumas of how she didn't feel protected by her mom and dad and how her first boyfriend physically abused her and that she felt if anyone in the world would protect her it would be me. She felt as if I didnt "have her back" on many issues and we talked about many different examples from earlier in our marriage (all pre-EA/compulsive gaming) with me validating. I had recognized these incidents before when I made my personal (unshared) "8th steps" list of hurts I had done to her, so I was able to relate and apologize to her when she brought them up and discuss amends I had made. However, I hadn't recognized the overall theme of protector that was meaningful for her, so that was a big insight for me on WHY they pushed her buttons so much.

That's what I mean by I thought it was a productive R talk because it covered new ground -- the R problems that set the stage for my later bad behavior.

I also think it is the childhood hurts she suffered that is part of what is making it hard for her to trust and move forward. I'm happy she is working on it in IC because I think it's also what drives alot of her anger and rage in day-to-day interactions and which drove me away before. In parallel, I have worked on becoming more of a Rock to her emotions.
_________________________
Me-41
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D10, D6, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing begins-04/2011
Now-back together
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#2103330 - 11/08/10 07:53 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: bustorama]
gucci loafer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1408
Buster,

When a woman brings up past mistakes you have made it is best to acknowledge them again..

"Yes honey, I did do that and I was wrong" (then shut up)

"Yes honey, I did ignore you a lot and I was wrong" (and then shut up)


Be very careful about telling a woman that you have apologized and want to leave it in the past. The key is to just keep apologizing and agreeing that "yes, you did do what she is bringing up again."


The wise man KEEPS apologizing if she keeps bringing it up. He makes it short, sincere and then shuts up.

She will let it go if you keep agreeing.

Remember guys. Learn to agree. It is the best way to validate.

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#2103350 - 11/08/10 08:31 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: gucci loafer]
bustorama Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 519
Wow, something gucci, sandi, and robx disagree about!
_________________________
Me-41
W-37
D10, D6, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing begins-04/2011
Now-back together
My Thread
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#2103355 - 11/08/10 09:00 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: bustorama]
bustorama Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 519
And Time Heals and Faith for that matter.

I'm sort of torn on this one. Some things consistent with Gucci's point of view to apologize as many times as needed are:

1) Things I've read about infidelity (not sure if it's specific to infidelity or not)

2) Things my sister has told me that pissed her off about her ex-H. Her ex-H cheated on her and when they talked about it and she would bring up the A, he would say we've talked about that already, this conversation is over. She said it pissed the hell out of her. That sitch was a different though cause he just kept philandering away with no change in behavior, so it's hard to know if it really made any difference whether or not he kept apologizing. I do know it pissed her off that he would say 'this conversation is over,' 'that is in the past,' though

3) They are her feelings. Aren't we invalidating them by refusing to address them?


Gucci, on the other hand, they cant keep beating you up for the same thing over and over, get stuck and not move forward? What would you say about that -- that eventually they will move forward if you keep apologizing (or if not, then you move forward by yourself?)

Also, Gucci, she hasnt been doing this lately, but what if someone engages in crap behavior (screaming, cursing, etc.) while bringing up something you've apologized for previously. I'm curious if you would agree/apologize, call out the CB, or some combination?
_________________________
Me-41
W-37
D10, D6, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing begins-04/2011
Now-back together
My Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304

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#2103357 - 11/08/10 09:18 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: bustorama]
TimeHeals Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 2694
Pfft! I never said invalidate anything.

I said to say something like, "I've already apologized for that" if she keeps bringing it up. You're not invalidating her, your are pointing out you already owned it, and you aren't telling her to get over it. Let her figure that out.
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D-filed 5/27/2010
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#2103368 - 11/08/10 09:39 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: bustorama]
gucci loafer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1408
How do you think it works for a prisoner up for parole for the third time and he tells the board that he "isn't going to apologize anymore" and he wants them to stop asking him and talking about the past because he wants to move on and they should too? That he is now a changed man and they should stop holding it against him because it isn't helping anyone?

I would venture to say his parole would be denied if he showed that attitude.. He may win the battle but lose the war..
The board would be thinking.. "Hmmm. I guess he really isn't sorry. It must have been only a show the last time he was up for parole. Good thing we didn't let him out.

Also, where did this now all the sudden change from a woman bringing up the past to that means she is holding it over your head or beating you up with it? Do you mean to tell me that you apologized for something and she should just up and forget it forever more? I am here to tell you if you know women at all, then that isn't reality..

You better be darn sure that she is bringing it up to beat you up before you go telling a woman that you don't want to hear about it anymore and that you have already apologized...

I am not telling you to keep apologziing to a woman who hasn't first brought it up.. I AM telling you to just make it quick to the point and agree again that "yes, honey I was wrong. (then drop it)

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#2103369 - 11/08/10 09:43 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: gucci loafer]
TimeHeals Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 2694
Quote:
How do you think it works for a prisoner up for parole


Are you saying marriage is a prison sentence?

Seriously, the words "I will not apologize for that anymore" never appeared anywhere in the text.

You are dreaming that up yourself.
_________________________
M-47,W-40,No kids
D-filed 5/27/2010
Piecing - 10/21/2010
-=Soon to be banned=-

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#2103389 - 11/08/10 10:59 PM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: TimeHeals]
Dudess Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 712
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: gucci loafer
The board would be thinking.. "Hmmm. I guess he really isn't sorry. It must have been only a show the last time he was up for parole. Good thing we didn't let him out.

Also, where did this now all the sudden change from a woman bringing up the past to that means she is holding it over your head or beating you up with it? Do you mean to tell me that you apologized for something and she should just up and forget it forever more? I am here to tell you if you know women at all, then that isn't reality..

You better be darn sure that she is bringing it up to beat you up before you go telling a woman that you don't want to hear about it anymore and that you have already apologized...




I strongly agree with gucci about this. About the worst thing you can do is refuse to listen when a woman needs to talk more about her feelings about something you already apologized for. In fact, refusing to talk more about it, pretty much negates the previous apology, and now she feels worse, and trust you less, than if you had never apologized.

A woman may need to talk about her feelings about something more than once. It doesn't mean she didn't hear that you are sorry. It doesn' t mean she is 'holding it over your head' or 'beating you up about it'. It's not about 'how bad you are' guys. It's about how scared, or hurt or whatever, *she* is.

Look at the result here - in the course of the conversation she apologized to him, for some of her shortcomings as a wife. I'd say he handled it very well.
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#2103962 - 11/10/10 12:53 AM Re: Bustorama- Thread #2 [Re: sandi2]
FaithnAK Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/10
Posts: 1003
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I agree, b/c some women keep going back over past mistakes H has made and won't go forward. Once it has been discussed and apologized for....drop it and refuse to go back over it again and if she tries to bring it up....tell her that you won't get off into the past again. If she thinks that is cold hearted, so be it. It is not healthy and sometimes men just have to take a firm stand about that.

I think it is a mistake to apologize for the same thing over & over again. If you apologize 100 times for something you did or didn't do, does that mean you weren't sincere the other 99 times? I don't think men need to apologize until the woman feels better, either, b/c some won't ever feel better and will use it to hold over his head all the way into eternity.


Busto, There is an "Enchanter" right there. She is a Woman speaking to a Man.

You validate til the cows come home Bro. You listen and be a Rock. The only time you EVER turn a cheek to the conversation is if she's disrespecting you. Period.

Gucci doesn't disagree and Dudess is backing that up.

Seriously, your actions, listening, and validating her is working. She's a mess and scared. Nothing you can "fix", but the "Rock" can handle it. Don't STOP what's working.

Not apologizing over and over doesn't mean don't listen and agree. Just don't allow your hard work and change to be..."abused".

Awesome job Bud!

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