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Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Back from gym. Blew up my lamp. Oops. Flames. Bad.
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#79753 - 03/10/11 10:22 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
OK here are two questions concerning birthdays:

1) W's birthday is upcoming. I intend to facilitate D's making W a card and picking out a little present to give her.

Right now I don't think I will be giving W a present myself. I am undecided on giving her a simple b-day card or maybe sending her a happy b-day txt.

Reasons to give her a card or txt msg : To be civil, reciprocity (she gave me a card and presents on my own b-day last June when we were in early separation), to wish her a happy birthday, accepting that she doesn't want the M -- this is what I do for my ex-W

Reasons not to give a card or txt msg : We are in no contact other than kids and finances (is this an exception?), I don't wish happy b-day to someone that is actively acting against my M or family


Thoughts/input on above?

2) D9's b-day is upcoming. Remember my D9 is step-D9 to W. R between W and D9 has always been a thorn in our R. I tried to encourage W to accept and bond with D9, but W ended up resenting my efforts and I think in some ways resenting D9. W said I tried to force an R between them ("controlling") and in doing so ruined their R. I have tried to play no role in the R between them since we have been separated, accepting that if W wants an R with D9 that W is an adult and could lead on whatever R she wanted.

W has not made much effort to maintain an independent R with D9 since separating. When she calls to speak to D's, she speaks to D3 and D5 and does not ask for D9 to be put on phone. D9 has slept over at W's apt (with D3 and D5) 2x over last 10 months. W has once asked me if she could take D9 out for activity (lunch, shopping, whatever) during the time that I have D9. She took D9 with her and D5 to Nutcracker performance for Christmas.

On the other hand, D9 always seemed happy to see W when she would see her in context of joint family weekends that we used to have each weekend before NC. W also seemed happy to see D9. W brought back presents for D9 during W's recent trip to her hometown.

OK, so that's the background. For my own b-day time with D9, I am not intending to invite W. This seems pretty straightforward to me, as I do not invite my ex-W to any family b-day that I celebrate with D9.

My ex-W and I always have joint kid b-day parties for D9, and we are organizing a lazer tag party for D9 and her friends.

Question: Is it my responsibility to invite W to anything related to D9's party? My current thinking is that W is an adult and if she would like to celebrate D9's party, she can initiate any contact to arrange a time for her to take her out separately (or maybe all 3 girls out) for an activity (shopping, ice cream, whatever). That celebration need not involve me nor be "offered" by me.

Conversely, is it my responsibility to indicate to W that she has the option of inviting D9 out. W has a passive style where she does not speak up for wants and then resents others when she does not get what she secretly wished for. I don't want to MR and hate that unhealthy dynamic (While being resented is unpleasant, I don't want to "rescue" her from her passivity. And that resentment is really her issue. If she raises it I could simply say, "I hear that you are upset because you did not spend b-day time with/felt excluded from b-day time with D9?").

Thoughts?


Edited by bustorama (03/10/11 10:30 AM)
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#79778 - 03/10/11 10:51 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
gr8 day 2b alive
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1286
Loc: Brotherly Love
Busto,

For your W bday, its OK to have the kids make a card and give their mom a gift. It is from them, not you.
I let the kids decide what to give their mom, It's not necessary for you to give a gift.

As for D9's party.
I would not invite her, even if D9 was biological mom.

This is what I have done with bdays for the kids.
Invite D9's friends over for a party.
Yeah she may say something about her step mom not being there but that will soon pass with all the fun activites you plan.

gr8

_________________________
Find a passion and pursue it.Fall in love.Dream Big.drink wine, eat good food and spend quality time with good friends.laugh everyday.tell stories. learn more. never give up. be grateful try new things be. happy. and above all, make every moment count.

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#79843 - 03/10/11 01:11 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: gr8 day 2b alive]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Sounds good, gr8. That's where I was leaning. Always appreciate the feedback.
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#80132 - 03/10/11 11:20 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Good day at work. 3 miler after work. D3's pink eye complicated into ear infection. W stayed home with her today and took her to Dr. W was texting me random things ("Did you make reservations for those pilates classes I got you last fall yet? They will expire next month. I am in waiting room, grrr. [Kid's nickname] is the cutest 3 year old in the world, etc.") that I did not respond to. Then W txt'ed me results of exam and we arranged pickup time at her appt.

I get to her appt and D3 is still napping. We get D3 out of bed. W is talking a mile per minute (so fast) about doctor's visit and oh look who's here D3! Then she goes to fridge to get medicine out of the fridge. Then things got strange, still talking a millions miles per minute, she gets the medicine out, hands it to me, then hands me some bottles of beer she says she thinks I might like (?!!?!) and an unopened bottle of cab wine saying something about her and her girlfriend went to Bev Mo and she got too much stuff and it was good I should have it, then she hands me some new socks for D5, then she hands me a big bag of jelly beans, then a st. patrick's day shirt for D9, then she starts trying to give me a bag of Yogurt Raisins. I finally get a "no" out. The whole time she was talking like a million miles per minute. I say ok, we're gonna go. She asks me if I am going to take girls to a school fundraiser dinner night out and I say yes. Then I say bye and leave with my armload of D3 and miscellaneous items.



Edited by bustorama (03/10/11 11:22 PM)
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#80201 - 03/11/11 08:32 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
Coach
Member

Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 1218
Happy pills?
_________________________
You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

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#80291 - 03/11/11 12:14 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Coach]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
She's not #Charlie Sheen's type, hehe.

I have wondered sometimes seriously if she has a bit of bipolar or other mood instability. One of her brothers and one of her cousins has been treated for it and her other brother also has had issues with depression (which she also has struggled with -- before meeting me even). And maybe if she was in a bit of an "up" cycle?

Someone also suggested it might have been nervousness, which I also could see?

Today is a great day to watch college basketball.
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#80298 - 03/11/11 12:33 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
CajunRose
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 5058
Loc: TX
I'm going to get kicked out of the sisterhood for sharing, but...my take - women talk fast when they are nervous or when they want to throw a man off guard. We KNOW that most men process speech more slowly than we do, so we talk fast on purpose so that you don't process what we say until later...that makes it less likely we'll get rejected right away, and makes it easier to manipulate because men haven't caught on to what we are actually doing. That's also why we throw something important in the middle of fairly innocuous things. It throws you off guard and let's us get through whatever issue we want to address when we are worried about your reaction.

If she tries this again and you want to engage, find a way to slow down the conversation. Interrupt with a question or a comment or something. Once you break the rehearsed flow (and I promise it was rehearsed - that was straight from page 5 of the "how to manipulate your man" handbook), you're likely to either get a) nothing (because she wasn't expecting the interruption and she lost her train of thought) or b) more information, because now she's a little rattled and can't remember what was/wasn't in her script.

I'm interested in seeing what she comes up with next to get your attention if you stay dark.
_________________________
D6, S2

I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.

Separated Oct 2010
Divorced Jun 2011
New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4

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#80320 - 03/11/11 01:03 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Coach]
Mindfull
Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 1127
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: Coach
Happy pills?
\

My first thought...

She's too sporadic and off-topic to just be nervous... IMO!

Cajun - I talk fast. I'm not nervous. I'm not trying to manipulate. Oh, and I'd never admit it, either. LOL
_________________________
D'd (6/27/2011)

D20, S15 & S12

And... He's Fergalicious...

"The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think."

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#80330 - 03/11/11 01:21 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
Originally Posted By: bustorama
Today is a great day to watch college basketball.


Go UConn!!!
_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#80337 - 03/11/11 01:47 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Mindfull]
CajunRose
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 5058
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: Mindfull
Originally Posted By: Coach
Happy pills?
\

My first thought...

She's too sporadic and off-topic to just be nervous... IMO!

Cajun - I talk fast. I'm not nervous. I'm not trying to manipulate. Oh, and I'd never admit it, either. LOL


I've done almost the exact same thing as Busto's W when I was trying to get STBXH's attention. Different words, but same general behavior.
_________________________
D6, S2

I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.

Separated Oct 2010
Divorced Jun 2011
New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4

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#80342 - 03/11/11 01:54 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: CajunRose]
Soleil
Member

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 989
Originally Posted By: CajunRose
I'm going to get kicked out of the sisterhood for sharing, but... We KNOW that most men process speech more slowly than we do


ROFL

Thank you brightening my day. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read that! wink

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#80493 - 03/11/11 05:48 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Soleil]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
U Conn is the evil empire. >:-) Helluva last minute shot, though.

My IC suggested I give another speech shortly before filing, "I would prefer that we (had) worked this out, but I accept that that is not happening. This ongoing situation isnt working for me anymore, so I am moving forward. I have begun to do so by seeing my lawyer concerning drafting up a final agreement concerning custody and financial matters, and I will be filing shortly. I did not want this to blindside you, so wanted to let you know in advance. I intend to be a great co-parent with you.

Any thoughts?
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#80501 - 03/11/11 05:59 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
CajunRose
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 5058
Loc: TX
In your shoes, I would do that. Even if you had no intention of working things out, it's respectful to let her know what is coming. No one wants to be served suddenly for any reason.

I'm planning to give a similar speech before I sign the final papers (if I ever get them).
_________________________
D6, S2

I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.

Separated Oct 2010
Divorced Jun 2011
New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4

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#80963 - 03/12/11 11:48 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: CajunRose]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
So much good basketball the last couple of days!

Yesterday, went to viewing get together for my alumni group around 4 pm and ended up leaving the place around 1 am. Talked to a bunch of people. Woke up a lil hungover but drug myself out to do a long run with some friends around the bay that ended up going well. There was a 10K going on nearby and we noticed it had a beer garden, so we ran across the finish line and got funneled into the beer garden (lol). Came home and got cleaned up and went to meet my alumni group again at noon for the next round of the tourney. We won again, woo hoo! Stayed til 6 pm watching some other games. I am home now doing some chores and am real tired.

My W txt'd me a couple of times during the games. I responded to one of the kid related ones. I txt'ed her tonight asking her to have the girls call me when it was a good time. She called using her speakerphone in the car and said she was using that because her handset was out of batteries and was charging (they were on the way back from a concert). Had a real tough time talking to the girls because they sounded very tired and cranky and weren't doing very well with the speakerphone. I said I would talk to them tomorrow then.

W called back and said that D5 said she would behave andtalk to me, so D5 told me some about her day. Then W started trying to supplement tell me about their day and then started telling me how a mutual couple friend of ours that is in her apt complex appeared to have moved and they didnt tell her. She starts telling me that it made her sad. I stopped her and said, hey we aren't supposed to be talking to each other.

She said, huh? you and me? whatever.

I said, yeah, we are supposed to be in no contact.

She said (annoyed/angry), well I just wanted to tell you about this, whatever. bye.
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#80988 - 03/13/11 09:14 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
Pinhead
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 627
Good job enforcing the boundary, Busto. Now you know her next tactic to keep the attachment going is to use a phone convo with your girls, and then "extend" the convo to her personal life.


My W talks a mile a minute. If you interrupt her, she gets irritated, but jumps right back where she left off. She loves to talk, can talk for hours. It used to bug me a lot, but then when I actually started listening, paying attention, validating, it became really important to me.

And I'm disappointed that you mooched from the beer garden!
_________________________
The best things in life aren't things.

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#81624 - 03/15/11 01:16 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Pinhead]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Where there is beer, there is Busto.

I am so happy! The house painting starts Monday! Had a final meeting with the painter today to go over details.

He's a good guy. He asked me when he was going to meet my W, and I explained the sitch to him. Separated, probably will end up divorcing. He said he couldn't believe it and felt bad for me, that I seemed like such a great guy. I said, well, I did make serious mistakes in the marriage, but at the end of the day if both people don't want to be married to one another, what can you do?

I'm also super excited about March Madness starting. Hey Pookie, ur UConn and my team (Duke, don't shoot me) are in the same bracket. Maybe we should have a little side bet...

Today was W's b-day. I left cards for her and a couple of presents from the girls for her in her garage while she was out. She txted me at some point in day to tell me her cousins had had their baby boy. I txted her later in day to ask her to have girls call me when they could. She did the call me on the car speakerphone thing again. I gathered that they were on their way back from eating out with one of her other girl cousins. W sounded sort of grumpy and irritated at D5, not a happy camper.

Did a 5 mile run on hilly trails after work with running group. It was nice to run in the sun with the daylight saving change. The hills were a real biatch though.


Edited by bustorama (03/15/11 01:25 AM)
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#81783 - 03/15/11 12:37 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
Ha.

I'll bet you for a case of beer.

_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#81812 - 03/15/11 01:16 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Soleil]
gr8 day 2b alive
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1286
Loc: Brotherly Love
Quote:
Originally Posted By: CajunRoseI'm going to get kicked out of the sisterhood for sharing, but... We KNOW that most men process speech more slowly than we do


HEY!!!

I resemble that remark!
_________________________
Find a passion and pursue it.Fall in love.Dream Big.drink wine, eat good food and spend quality time with good friends.laugh everyday.tell stories. learn more. never give up. be grateful try new things be. happy. and above all, make every moment count.

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#84715 - 03/22/11 12:23 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: gr8 day 2b alive]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
OK, I have had a good last week. Fun times with friends, played some hooky from work to watch tourney games at bar/restaurant, also some fun times with my girls. We had dinner at neighbors and played with their kiddos. They had their swim lessons and dance lessons. Good times all around.

But I am writing now because I had a TOTALLY SURREAL experience today at the city park....

So I went there go meet up with my running group but got there too late, they had taken off. I took a guess which way they had gone and set off to try to catch them. It was sunny and started raining torrentially (still sunny). So, I'm cruising through the sun rain guessing they are in a part of the park with all these arches and fountains to run around. As I crest this hilly corner, I see a mess of people (maybe 50, not my runners) standing totally still looking up at the sky. I follow their gaze up and see the biggest double rainbow (OMG) I've ever seen. It was EPIC. Full on, all the way across, both sides touching down, both sides doubled. It was so bright and near at both bottoms, I almost felt like I could run into the bottom and bathe in the spectrum.

So I slow a bit to enjoy, then take off again to try to find/catch them. After about a mile, I am running by the zoo in the shadow of the double rainbow, turn a corner, and CRASH headlong into a woman runner.

When we get up, I realize it's my next door neighbor (we live like 30miles from this park!!!). She is there doing a hash (a run with beer) and invites me to join her. Since I can't find my group I say sure. So we're running along talking (in the shadow of the double rainbow), and she says why don't you come to the end of the run with me (they have a party with beer and food at the end of the runs). So I say sure why not. It's in the old train museum where I guess some of the other hashers work. And they have it open for just the runners. So we get beers and she starts touring me around the museum.

Then she asks me how the family is doing, she hasn't seen us much lately. I tell her that me and W are separated, the kids are doing well, etc. etc. She says oh really, me and my husband are getting divorced too. Then I feel her eyeing me up and down. We're like in this back dark corner of the train museum. She starts with crazy eye contact and saying I should come over to talk about stuff with her and starts touching me. So I say, u know neighbor I really should be going,my running group may be looking for me cause I txt'ed them. She hugs me and repeats that I should come over to talk and I get the hell out of Dodge.

I run back to the starting point of the run and my running group is there. They ask where I was. I answered, "I was in the back of the train museum drinking hash beer surrounded by model trains getting hit on by my divorcing next door neighbor in the shadow of a double rainbow."


Edited by bustorama (03/22/11 12:26 AM)
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#84719 - 03/22/11 12:33 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
Danf
Member

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 4320
Loc: WI
Sweet!

Sounds like a great night Busto! I think you should have let her hit on you some more though! Good for the ego.

_________________________
Me45
D Final(sort of) 7/13/11

My life has been extraordinary, blessed and cursed at once.
(Billy Corgan - Smashing Pumpkins)

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#84720 - 03/22/11 12:39 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
Originally Posted By: bustorama
So, I'm cruising through the sun rain guessing they are in a part of the park with all these arches and fountains to run around. As I crest this hilly corner, I see a mess of people (maybe 50, not my runners) standing totally still looking up at the sky. I follow their gaze up and see the biggest double rainbow (OMG) I've ever seen. It was EPIC. Full on, all the way across, both sides touching down, both sides doubled. It was so bright and near at both bottoms, I almost felt like I could run into the bottom and bathe in the spectrum.






_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#84742 - 03/22/11 06:34 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: pookie69]
piano
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1641
Loc: far flung
Love that story Bustorama! Was it divine intervention?!! LOL!
_________________________
Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards. Kierkegaard.

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#84780 - 03/22/11 10:08 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
Coach
Member

Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 1218
Quote:
"I was in the back of the train museum drinking hash beer surrounded by model trains getting hit on by my divorcing next door neighbor in the shadow of a double rainbow."






Like they believed that one. crazy smirk grin thumbsup
_________________________
You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

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#84782 - 03/22/11 10:12 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: piano]
CajunRose
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 5058
Loc: TX
That's hilarious. I've always thought rainbows were a sign of something wonderful - whether it's about to happen or is blessing something that already happened. A double rainbow should be a sign that there's something really great in the works for you smile
_________________________
D6, S2

I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.

Separated Oct 2010
Divorced Jun 2011
New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 539
Likes: 11
B
Member
OP Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
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(and the real reconciliation begins)

Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: CajunRose]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
OK, I haven't posted in awhile. Possibly big development in my sitch. Probably need urgent feedback!

W just called in tears saying she wanted her old life back, she wanted to come back, saying she had been doing alot of thinking and seeing things clearer since having a purging with her psychic (which also coincided with some strong actions on my part, perhaps not coincidentally).

I clarified with her, you want to come back? She said yeah. I said let's get together after lunch to talk about things.

Possible catalysts from my end is that I put divorce fully on the table in two conversations. First conversation was about 2 weeks ago, I told her, W, I would have preferred not to divorce, but this sitch is no longer working for me. It's time to start splitting everything up, etc. I was on the way to funeral and she started crying and not wanting to discuss. I agreed to postpone the talk another month while she got some shinola together at her end.

Fast forward a couple of weeks and she asks me if I will help her buy a new cell phone cause hers is broken. I say no. She says her lease renewal is signing up will I co-sign it for her again. I say no. All kinds of ranting and raving. I stayed calm and cool and said, sorry I won't do that. It's the reality of people divorcing. To talk to her parents, etc. What's real strange is I also really started flirting with her while I was doing all this. This convo happened maybe 2 weeks ago and since then I have continued on flirting at her when she would txt me but also being consistent with the idea that we were going to proceed towards divorce.

I had a sense something was changing because when I left for my reunion she told me to come to her and she gave me a big hug. She also txted me while I was at my reunion. She also said she had had a blast the first time we spent time together when our NC ended when I entered girls in a road race and she came to that also.

So I may have an opportunity here. Do not want to be melty man and blow things. If she is serious on working on things, I want us to get into MC and maybe do a retrouvaille. Not sure if I should expedite hercoming back home if she is willing or if we should have her stay at apt? There also is some remodeling I wanted to do to the house to finish some changes she had wanted way back so maybe I should go to her apartment while they work on the house? Ideas??????

_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#92889 - 04/11/11 02:05 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
Yeah.

Uconn won. Where is my case of beer?
_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#92892 - 04/11/11 02:08 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: pookie69]
Pinhead
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 627
What changes in your W will you need to feel safe in the R?
_________________________
The best things in life aren't things.

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#92893 - 04/11/11 02:10 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
gr8 day 2b alive
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1286
Loc: Brotherly Love
Quote:
So I may have an opportunity here. Do not want to be melty man and blow things. If she is serious on working on things, I want us to get into MC and maybe do a retrouvaille. Not sure if I should expedite hercoming back home if she is willing or if we should have her stay at apt? There also is some remodeling I wanted to do to the house to finish some changes she had wanted way back so maybe I should go to her apartment while they work on the house? Ideas??????


Sounds like you do have an opportunity here busto.

Yes you are correct when you say you shouldn't expedite her coming back.

What changes has she made?

I would suggest coming up with a plan, MC Retro..etc like you said.
without a good recovery plan it will be difficult.
Take it slow.
Don't chase.


congrats, gr8
_________________________
Find a passion and pursue it.Fall in love.Dream Big.drink wine, eat good food and spend quality time with good friends.laugh everyday.tell stories. learn more. never give up. be grateful try new things be. happy. and above all, make every moment count.

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#92894 - 04/11/11 02:10 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Pinhead]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
Originally Posted By: Pinhead
What changes in your W will you need to feel safe in the R?


What changes in you will your W need to feel safe in the R?

_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#92897 - 04/11/11 02:15 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: pookie69]
Pinhead
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 627
Think ahead about your plan:

1. What you will want to address in MC.
2. What will you hope to achieve via Retrouvaille.
_________________________
The best things in life aren't things.

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#92899 - 04/11/11 02:23 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Pinhead]
believer
Member

Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 12109
I don't know Busto. She's making noises, but watch her actions. Let us know when she pulls out the big guns.

In the meantime, continue doing what you have been doing.
_________________________
In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible summer..Albert Camus

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#92900 - 04/11/11 02:25 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Pinhead]
Coach
Member

Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 1218
What do you want your marriage to be?

Work backwards from the ultimate goal to where you are now. Know what your non-negotiable terms are. Plan out a course of action with her input and buy-in, then lead. You comfortable with the psychic as part of this?

Stay patient and calm.

Cheers
_________________________
You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

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#92903 - 04/11/11 02:31 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Coach]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
Originally Posted By: Coach
What do you want your marriage to be?

Work backwards from the ultimate goal to where you are now. Know what your non-negotiable terms are. Plan out a course of action with her input and buy-in, then lead. You comfortable with the psychic as part of this?

Stay patient and calm.

Cheers


Kinda like designing a new house and then building it.

There will be a lot of tests on the way.

_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#92904 - 04/11/11 02:32 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
LovingAnyway
Board of Directors
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Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 2214
Validate her, Bustor.

So you can be really clear on what she's saying.

She wants her old life back? Ask for all the parts so you understand what she really means.

Your plan is still within what you require. You want a better, amazing, thriving marriage where she doesn't over-do or under-do (nor you); where she will not do that which she will resent...because that's the poison that nearly killed you out of the marriage.

How about require three sessions with MC, owning what she did, why she did it and how she won't do it again (if she blamed you for not making her happy, for making her miserable, trapped, taken advantage of, used, whatever)...

When you do well at validating, hearing, understanding...you'll see what's missing, what she hasn't changed.

You know you may not want to see her changes...the same she said to you...be aware of...to not imbue her with more change than she's really willing or doing, 'k?

Can she stay in her apt without signing another lease (without you cosigning)?

Are you willing to date her? Is she asking you out? Is she willing to woo you again? Does she recognize and own how much her choices hurt you and hurt you for a long period of time?

I love the flirting while enforcing healthy boundaries. You're a genius, Bustor! You can make Retrouvaille a requirement before moving back in...remember the follow ups are as important as the weekend, I think.

You can tell her more specifically what won't work for you--her changing her mind from her feelings. You can't trust her to really want her life back without her knowing her ultimate happiness is really being in love with the father of her children. That's a belief she chooses, not a feeling.

As long as she chooses to live backwards, she's a threat to the marriage. Contemplate this. You and your boundaries are no longer subject to which way her feelings blow.

You want her to love like a verb...to choose and act from love, even if she doesn't feel like it...and you know the feelings will follow.

Which is how you can say this isn't working for you and be okay with divorcing...you know when you stop acting love, over time, you'll stop feeling it. It's what she did. It's what her choices taught you.

LA
_________________________
The Paradoxical Commandments

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain

MALovingAnyway@gmail.com

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#92906 - 04/11/11 02:33 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: believer]
CajunRose
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 5058
Loc: TX
I'm sorry you had to go to a funeral, Busto. hug

I kind of figured this was coming based on her actions in mid-March. Yea for an opportunity!

So you've already been doing a lot of work on you. I assume what you posted at the beginning is still true - online stuff all done, better boundaries defined for yourself in general, other personal fixes becoming habits?

W was in IC before to "fix" her self-esteem and trust issues. Is she still doing that?

It sounds like you have both been doing a lot of work already, and your sitch is strange anyway in that you were the wayward first. Because of your past, I think Retrouvaille could be very good for both of you so that you can make sure and identify some of the big trust and communication issues you still need to work on.

What does a good marriage look like to you? What changes would you or she need to make still to get there? This is what you'd need to work on in MC.

At the same time, keep letting her take care of herself. You don't want to get back into the codependence. You don't want to rescue her. You need two healthy people to make the relationship work.
_________________________
D6, S2

I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.

Separated Oct 2010
Divorced Jun 2011
New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4

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#92913 - 04/11/11 02:43 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: CajunRose]
catperson
Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 7915
It sounds to me like she misses your money. Be very careful.

Do NOT let her move back home. She hasn't earned that right.

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#92932 - 04/11/11 03:04 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: LovingAnyway]
Coach
Member

Registered: 10/12/10
Posts: 1218
Quote:
I love the flirting while enforcing healthy boundaries. You're a genius, Bustor!


He's a cat whisperer.
_________________________
You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.

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#92939 - 04/11/11 03:21 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: bustorama
OK, I haven't posted in awhile. Possibly big development in my sitch. Probably need urgent feedback!

W just called in tears saying she wanted her old life back, she wanted to come back, saying she had been doing alot of thinking and seeing things clearer since having a purging with her psychic (which also coincided with some strong actions on my part, perhaps not coincidentally).

I clarified with her, you want to come back? She said yeah. I said let's get together after lunch to talk about things.

Possible catalysts from my end is that I put divorce fully on the table in two conversations. First conversation was about 2 weeks ago, I told her, W, I would have preferred not to divorce, but this sitch is no longer working for me. It's time to start splitting everything up, etc. I was on the way to funeral and she started crying and not wanting to discuss. I agreed to postpone the talk another month while she got some shinola together at her end.

Fast forward a couple of weeks and she asks me if I will help her buy a new cell phone cause hers is broken. I say no. She says her lease renewal is signing up will I co-sign it for her again. I say no. All kinds of ranting and raving. I stayed calm and cool and said, sorry I won't do that. It's the reality of people divorcing. To talk to her parents, etc. What's real strange is I also really started flirting with her while I was doing all this. This convo happened maybe 2 weeks ago and since then I have continued on flirting at her when she would txt me but also being consistent with the idea that we were going to proceed towards divorce.

I had a sense something was changing because when I left for my reunion she told me to come to her and she gave me a big hug. She also txted me while I was at my reunion. She also said she had had a blast the first time we spent time together when our NC ended when I entered girls in a road race and she came to that also.

So I may have an opportunity here. Do not want to be melty man and blow things. If she is serious on working on things, I want us to get into MC and maybe do a retrouvaille. Not sure if I should expedite hercoming back home if she is willing or if we should have her stay at apt? There also is some remodeling I wanted to do to the house to finish some changes she had wanted way back so maybe I should go to her apartment while they work on the house? Ideas??????



Bro do you want us to tell you it's ok to talk relationship talk with her because it looks like she's coming around?

You won't get that from me.

She's not ready yet.

You might think she is but look at the warning signs.

She just needs someone to take care of her financially and give her some security, she hasn't given you any real signs that she wants to come back.

Words are cheap, let her work for it.

How long have you been at this? How many months/years has it been? Do you remember how much time you spent pursuing, offering relationship talk and counselling and all that good stuff? Did it work? No.

Even if she says she wants to try again, you have to let her feel your loss, you have to determine if she's being genuine or if this is an act on her part.

She wants her old life back?

Do you want the "old" life back?

I hope not, it brought you to this place and if you go back to your "old" life, you will more than likely return to this place.

She had a "purging with her psychic"?!

Seriously?!

This is what changed her mind and prompted her to re-evaluate her life and her relationship with you. Someone she pays to tell her things about her "future"?! That's a stable foundation if I ever heard one!

And no, I'm not being cynical, I'm being real.

You should be REAL too.

You shouldn't have asked her if she wants to come back,
you need to let her tell you, prove to you, work hard for you to show you that she wants to come back. It won't be subtle, it will be very apparent, she will make it known to you.

If she only wants back so that her life is simple again and that you will be taking care of things that she doesn't want to take care of herself (ie. paying bills, managing her life, being mature, responsible, etc.), I personally wouldn't want her back - she wants back for the wrong reasons, not because she wants you but because living on her own has proven to be too much work for her. Take her back, she'll get comfortable and then too comfortable and then bored again and then she will entertain these ideas all over again with thoughts of "maybe I can handle living on my own again the next time".

Quote:
...First conversation was about 2 weeks ago, I told her, W, I would have preferred not to divorce, but this sitch is no longer working for me. It's time to start splitting everything up, etc. I was on the way to funeral and she started crying and not wanting to discuss. I agreed to postpone the talk another month while she got some shinola together at her end.


This works.
You need to maintain this,
you need to put yourself first,
she's attracted to a man that values himself, women generally are attracted to high value men, when you put yourself last, it shows that you're low value, she doesn't want a low value guy, what's in it for her if she's in a relationship with a man of less value than herself? It's not attractive, she will always feel short-changed, like she got the worst part of the deal and that always kills attraction.

Quote:
...So I may have an opportunity here. Do not want to be melty man and blow things. If she is serious on working on things, I want us to get into MC and maybe do a retrouvaille. Not sure if I should expedite hercoming back home if she is willing or if we should have her stay at apt? There also is some remodeling I wanted to do to the house to finish some changes she had wanted way back so maybe I should go to her apartment while they work on the house? Ideas??????


You do have an opportunity here, you have always had this opportunity, you're only now seeing it for the first time.
You will not become Mr Melty Man because we know that doesn't work. You can tell her plain & simple, based on all the events that led to your current situation, you don't trust her, trust and loyalty are very important to you and you can't invest your time in people that don't know what they have. No one knows what the futures holds for the two of you but for the time being you won't be the one investing in her or your marriage, you let her know that you're not sure how you feel about her anymore, a lot of time has passed and you've changed quite a bit during this process, you know what you want in life and what you DON'T want in life. It will be up to her to show you that she is for real, she can invest in marriage counselling, personal counselling for herself, whatever she wants to do but you can't guarantee that you will be there waiting for her. This whole process has shown you that life is too short and too valuable to waste on people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you. You will not ask her to move back in, that would be a mistake. You won't be offering to take her out on dates (let her do that), you won't offer marriage counselling or retrovaille as options to her, those are things she will need to invest in herself, to ask you if you will participate with her, not the other way around. Reading your post, you're already becoming Mr Melty Man.

Let her prove to you that she really wants you and her marriage with you. Don't make it easy on her, be a challenge, she wants a challenge, she wants a high value guy, she doesn't want someone who is easy, easy means little to no value, something obtained easily has no value and can be let go of easily as it's obtained.

Remember this, she is testing you, will you pass the test?

Here's a clue, don't worry about passing her test, you're not invested in this process like you were when this originally began, you need to be sold on the idea that this marriage is worthwhile and you won't invest any effort into something that isn't valuable to you anymore.

Don't be a push over.

_________________________
“Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”

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#92940 - 04/11/11 03:22 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: catperson
It sounds to me like she misses your money. Be very careful.

Do NOT let her move back home. She hasn't earned that right.


exactly!
_________________________
“Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”

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#92956 - 04/11/11 03:52 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
Pinhead
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 627
Busto,

Here's a real tough question. Do you really want her back?

Do YOU want her back?

Not because she's the mother of your daughters. She'll always be that. Not because it'll be better for the girls. It might be, it might not.

But do you want her back? Is she the type of woman you find attractive (and I'm not speaking physically)? Does she fit well with your real personality, the Busto you've rediscovered over the last few years? Will she be a good partner for the rest of your life? Can you accept her flaws and foibles without feeling resentful or trying to fix her?

You're at a really good place in life; your career is going well, your healthy and doing things that build up your life. You have a good relationship with your daughters and the rest of your family. Can she share that or will it make you revert back to the Busto who lost himself online?

You're not the type to give up. And I'm not saying you should. But you've fought so hard and so long to "make things work" to "save your marriage" that sometimes it's possible to not see the forest for the trees.

She can change, people change all the time. But if she's changing to get you back, we all know how that pans out. Can you accept her as she is now, personality wise, outlook wise?

Do you feel the need to protect her now? To be her safety net? There are a lot of clues as to her motivation; her lease expiring, her needing a new phone, etc etc. Financial motives.

Has she made any moves in the past towards reconciling? Either for the two of you or even just for your daughters? Like a good investigator, weigh her motives. Watch her actions. Look for catalysts.

Rob has some good advice. Take your time, there's absolutely no rush. This relationship won't be repaired in a day, nor will it go to seed if you don't let her move back in tomorrow.
_________________________
The best things in life aren't things.

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#92986 - 04/11/11 05:06 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
flowmom
Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 6588
Busto, some of the advice you are getting makes it sound like your W needs to earn her way back after threatening the marriage. As you readily admit, however, your own actions were comparable to hers in terms of damaging the M. I agree with don't go all melty man, because she needs to be able to respect you. OTOH, be careful about playing hardball because of your history and the 180s you need to make. I think your flirting approach sounds great. MC is so risky IMO. I like the idea of Retro because there is a lot of initial momentum generated. Seems like something to do (including followups) while she is still living separately. I wouldn't take the psychic thing too seriously...she wouldn't have followed the advice if she didn't like the answer. I actually know a surprising number of intelligent and practical women who have used a psychic.

Sending good vibes your way!
_________________________
me44 + Pookie, S8, D5

I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM

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#92995 - 04/11/11 05:28 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
kimmie lee
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 2738
Loc: SEATTLE, WA
Busto, I thought that the correct response to her inquiry re: "coming back" would be:

"I don't know how I feel about this right now......"
_________________________
THE FOG comes
on little cat feet.

It sits looking
over harbor and city
on silent haunches
and then moves on....C. Sandburg


GOSH!!
GOLLY!!

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#93009 - 04/11/11 06:26 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: kimmie lee]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
Originally Posted By: kimmie lee
Busto, I thought that the correct response to her inquiry re: "coming back" would be:

"I don't know how I feel about this right now......"


I don't know how I feel about that phychic who placed feelings in your head. I have to think about that. Gotta run.

_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#93027 - 04/11/11 07:32 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
TimeHeals
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 2324
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
She had a "purging with her psychic"?!


I don't even know what that means. scratch


crazycrazycrazyGo slow. Let her find her feet again. crazycrazycrazy
_________________________
Your Time Perspective Can Heal
Mend the broken, make strong the weak and vanquish the evil.

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#93048 - 04/11/11 08:35 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: TimeHeals]
Danf
Member

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 4320
Loc: WI
Damn! This stuff is TOUGH!!!
_________________________
Me45
D Final(sort of) 7/13/11

My life has been extraordinary, blessed and cursed at once.
(Billy Corgan - Smashing Pumpkins)

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#93076 - 04/11/11 09:32 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: TimeHeals]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Quote:
She had a "purging with her psychic"?!


I don't even know what that means. scratch


crazycrazycrazyGo slow. Let her find her feet again. crazycrazycrazy


Last time I purged, it was not a psychic. crazy crazy

_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#93207 - 04/12/11 01:58 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: pookie69]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Lots of great wisdom here for which I continue to be super appreciative. Some clarifications from my end while I continue to process and formulate my vision of path forward:

1) Pookie, I absolutely owe you a case. BTW, I don't remember if I posted this, but I was lucky enough to see UConn live when they beat SDSU (same day Arizona took down my Dookies). It was amazing seeing Kemba play live -- the talent difference was obvious. So fast, yet so under control. PM me your addy and your fav beers.

2) I am very cautious because of the potential financial angle and the question of whether she wants ME (as opposed to security, etc.) and how much she has actually changed. There are some suggestions to me that there ARE draws of some sentimental kind though.

- I found out from my little ones while I was away at reunion that my W drove by our house with them. She hasn't driven by the house (that I know of) in almost 2 months. I just had the house painted a totally different color and changed the locks. Perhaps seeing that affected her in some way (plus something was affecting her to drive by in the first place).

- My W also drove to the place where she and I were MARRIED while I was away (she told me this and lil ones confirmed).

- My W kept said to me a few times that she felt her unhappiness about other things in her life had spilled over and tainted her view of everything in her life, including me and our relationship. That she had recently begun to see this clearly (I don't know if this was related to my saying to her 1-2 weeks ago that SHE was the wise girl who once told ME when I was unhappy and at the depths of my depression that *I* was responsible for my own happiness and unhappiness).

- My W began taking Lexapro recently (within last 2 weeks) and perhaps the medication is helping her depression lift and changing some entrenched negative thoughts and feelings?

3) When I wrote above that I clarified if she wanted to come back, I didnt ASK HER to come back, which it seems some of you interpreted to have happened. Rather, I clarified with her if that was what she was saying to me when she said, "I want my old life back. I want to go back." And I said, do you mean you want to come back here? When she said yes to me, I said we should get together after lunch to talk about things.

4) The psychic thing -- the psychic did not tell her what to do one way or another. The purging thing is sort of a open-ended procedure in which the person performs a ritual that is supposed to rid them of negative things that have kept them in ruts, or evil eyes, or curses or things like that. It's entirely up to the person being purged to decide what that means for them (if anything). From everything my W has told me about this psychic, that seems to be the psychic's MO (very non-directive, instead saying very vague things like, you have a key challenge in your life about which you will need to make an important decision). The psychic thing is definitely a bit of a wild-card, but less so than it could be.

5) There is something intangibly different about my W. I was starting to see it before I left, and it's even more dramatic now that I have seen her again tonight. Something about the way she looks at me and opens to me emotionally. Even physically, her hugs tonight, she was pushing her hips against mine and like melting against me, squeezing me tight and nuzzling her head into me.

6) In the course of the night she kept talking about we and us and the family as a unit (the kids were there). She talked about:

- wanting all of us to go on vacation together, wishing we could all go right now, but wanting to go as soon as her job would permit it (any talk last fall of vacationing together before was anathema to her).

- changing the first floor of the house to hardwood, how she had dreamed over the weekend of her living in the house, sweeping the wood floors (she was terrified of the house before and said she would never be able to live in it again)

- she kept correcting D5 when D5 would refer to the house as Daddy's house and saying it is our house, or to W's apt as Mommy's apt (saying it is simply "the apt").

- planning to talk to her therapist tomorrow about her feelings about reconciling and working through with her therapist what her goal/ideals would be for reconciling.

- saying how cute and adorable in behavior our D3 was and how much she reminded her of me.

- saying how she was looking forward to the summer and all of us spending time together at the beach

6) I can see many ways in which she is not quite all the way there or still has changing to do. I am also definitely concerned about how much she may still be living backwards (based on her current feelings). I also am concerned re: how much of her future view is family-based vs. wanting to focus on repairing things between us or craving ME.

Definitely a slow approach is needed, and I also need to keep being cautious and contemplating/confirming whether the woman she is now is the woman I still want as my wife.

7) The kids seem to sense something happened today. My D5 asked, 'Is Daddy still going back to the house tonight?' One time that W and I hugged in the kitchen, D5 came running in and threw her arms around both of us. This, while cute, concerns me because if the piecing is a false start or fails, I don't want to see them hurt twice. How are kids handled in the context of piecing (assuming things go that way)?

Too tired to write more. I do believe she has undergone some significant change since before NC started and that there is a real opportunity here.


Edited by bustorama (04/12/11 02:00 AM)
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#93212 - 04/12/11 02:11 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
flowmom
Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 6588
Busto, I think you are wise to be aware of how your children are affected by piecing. If you can, try to address this stuff not in front of them until you have more clarity. Also, be careful about "confirming" things with them...they can sense that your questions are not idle ones and they will make their own intepretations about what is going on.

Lexapro: change should be expected by 4-6 wks, but people often notice improvements by 10-14 days. And if she has been depressed and is being helped by medication, that is HUGE. Untreated depression is disastrous to relationships and you could be dealing with a very different woman now.

It sounds like your thought processes are clear...
_________________________
me44 + Pookie, S8, D5

I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM

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#93276 - 04/12/11 09:14 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: flowmom]
catperson
Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 7915
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing: cringing when you said you were hugging her in front of the kids. You two are their whole world. Just like a dog watches his master for cues, your kids are focused on y'all's actions to get a cue for their future. If she's not really changing, but using you - and it REALLY sounds like it to me - then eventually you're going to catch on and have to drop her again. And that will be double disastrous to the kids because NOW they are already expecting you two to be back together because you're hugging and kissing and whatnot.

Please please please do NOT let her back home for AT LEAST 6 more months. It's going to take her that long in therapy to get anywhere. It's worth the sacrifice if you want to focus on another 30 years together.


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
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Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson]
Medc
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Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 5195
Quote:
She just needs someone to take care of her financially


This is all that I see.

Want to be sure...polygraph her. If you don't...you will never know...well, that is until its too late.

eta..never mind. I just refreshed myself about your situation. Since YOU were the one that had the affair, I would say let her back if that is her desire.


Edited by Medc (04/12/11 09:42 AM)
_________________________
It's not who you are underneath, it is what you do each and everyday that defines you.

Don't go shaking the HO tree and expect an angel to fall out.


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#93371 - 04/12/11 12:49 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: catperson
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing: cringing when you said you were hugging her in front of the kids. You two are their whole world. Just like a dog watches his master for cues, your kids are focused on y'all's actions to get a cue for their future. If she's not really changing, but using you - and it REALLY sounds like it to me - then eventually you're going to catch on and have to drop her again. And that will be double disastrous to the kids because NOW they are already expecting you two to be back together because you're hugging and kissing and whatnot.

Please please please do NOT let her back home for AT LEAST 6 more months. It's going to take her that long in therapy to get anywhere. It's worth the sacrifice if you want to focus on another 30 years together.


Totally agree,
your kids are watching every move you make,
they're like little recorders, it's a survival mechanism, they watch your actions and will repeat them, that's just how we're all built.

That being said, you know the personal actions on your part that helped contribute to this mess, have you taken care of yourself and eliminated those bad habits? Be sure of this, regardless if you and your wife reconcile, your actions are being closely watched by your little ones: good habits, bad habits, it doesn't matter, they will see them all even the times when you don't notice yourself doing them.

As for your wife, you will know she wants to come back, she will be genuine about it, based on your posts I really can't tell if her actions are genuine or not. Is she coming to you now out of desperation, maybe doesn't want to live alone, maybe she had a relationship with another man which failed and she doesn't want to be alone and views you as a stable secure backup plan, maybe there was no other man and all this time on her own has given her time to consider what she really wants, it's all very hard to tell from our end. Regardless of what happens, have compassion for yourself, your wife, your kids and pray for clarity so that you know what to decide when the time is right.



Edited by rob x (04/12/11 09:18 PM)
Edit Reason: just because wink
_________________________
“Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”

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#93493 - 04/12/11 05:17 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
LovingAnyway
Board of Directors
Treasurer
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Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 2214
Great advice being given a great guy.

She says she wants her old life back...ask her for her plan to achieve what she wants.

What's her plan?

LA
_________________________
The Paradoxical Commandments

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain

MALovingAnyway@gmail.com

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#93511 - 04/12/11 05:39 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: LovingAnyway]
Danf
Member

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 4320
Loc: WI
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
_________________________
Me45
D Final(sort of) 7/13/11

My life has been extraordinary, blessed and cursed at once.
(Billy Corgan - Smashing Pumpkins)

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#93807 - 04/13/11 09:08 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: TimeHeals]
Don Man Don
Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 926
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Quote:
She had a "purging with her psychic"?!


I don't even know what that means. scratch


It means she got dumped!



On of the biggest mistakes waywards make is put all their eggs into the new basket. When in reality all they are are a couple of cheaters cheating. When in reality their feet do smell, the drunken sex and drunken arguments are no different then drunken sex and drunken arguments they left behind, 'The Bank Of Trying To Get Down Yer Pants' goes broke too or starts looking for new endeavours to invest in, and if you're just out to have a good time, those damn kids get in the way.

Follow reality. Always have a back up plan!


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#93812 - 04/13/11 09:13 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Don Man Don]
TimeHeals
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 2324
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
It means she got dumped!



Probably.

Dumped and then jumped the rails trying to find meaning in it all, so shell out 50 bucks to some charlatan with a flexible belief system that will help make it all make sense to you when you refuse to accept the obvious.
_________________________
Your Time Perspective Can Heal
Mend the broken, make strong the weak and vanquish the evil.

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#93818 - 04/13/11 09:21 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Don Man Don]
Danf
Member

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 4320
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: Don Man Don
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Quote:
She had a "purging with her psychic"?!


I don't even know what that means. scratch


It means she got dumped!

'The Bank Of Trying To Get Down Yer Pants' goes broke too or starts looking for new endeavours to invest in....


LOVE IT!
_________________________
Me45
D Final(sort of) 7/13/11

My life has been extraordinary, blessed and cursed at once.
(Billy Corgan - Smashing Pumpkins)

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#94025 - 04/13/11 05:54 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Don Man Don]
Not2fun
Member

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 1388
Loc: Gateway to the West
Originally Posted By: Don Man Don
It means she got dumped!


Ahhhh yes.....this makes sense!!!

Oh wait.....

Except.....

Mrs. Buster did NOT have the affair!!!!! A fact many seem to forget when commenting on this situation......

Buster,

I sincerly hope you have a PLAN in mind for Mrs. Buster on how to repair this marriage. Be it counseling, a marriage conference with follow up, something. I think it would be unrealistic to think she would have any concrete thoughts on HOW to go about it. It's the time where YOU should be presenting your research that you have been doing......

Not2fun
_________________________
If you aren't being transparent, then you aren't being authentic. If you aren't being authentic, then you are being a hypocrite."

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#94051 - 04/13/11 06:33 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Not2fun]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Hi Not2fun, thanks for dropping by as well. .

My plan includes Retrouvaille (with follow-up) (the next local one isn't until June 10 here in my city) -- that's a little farther off than I would like (2 months), because ideally I would like that to be a sort of jump start towards reconciliation, opening up trust, communication, healing, bonding, etc.

Then coming back to a local pro-marriage, solution-oriented MC that specializes in intimacy, trust and recovery from infidelity. I vetted this MC back in August and spoke to him on the phone about our sitch but chose not to see him by myself so I wouldn't "spoil" him for us. He specializes in recovery from infidelity and has written a book about it.

For home stuff, my plan also would include the MB 15-20 hr/week of together time with us "working" the EN questionnaire and either the Mort Fertel Marriage Fitness videoconference package, the Love Dare book exercise, or some version of the Marriage Builders workbook?

I would like for the two of us to take a getaway vacation away from the kids somewhere fun also somewhere in the process, probably later in??

And at least 1 date night per week as a standard!

I am not sure that us moving back in together right away is the right thing for us for a few reasons. One practical issue is we have talked about some remodeling stuff for the house, and it would be nice to keep the apartment while that is going on (1-2 months). I could continue staying in the upstairs of the house and visiting the apartment while that is going on.

You are right when I asked her what her plan was she said she really didnt have one that she is still so emotionally all over the place that she hasnt had time to think about particulars of how, just that she does want to come back and work on things. She said she wanted to hear my plan this weekend after she finishes some work deadlines that finish on Friday.

I don't want to overwhelm her in my idea of a "PLAN" right off the bat with lots of things to read or tons of activities to do. Not sure if the above seems like too much?

Other ideas?

Oh, I think also full transparency (giving her password access to all my email, FB, etc. etc.). I think I would like the same from her as well, but not sure if that would seem like a violation of her if she really did not have any sort of EA, etc. on her end Maybe the transparency stuff should be discussed later once there is momentum or 3rd party facilitator involved???


Edited by bustorama (04/13/11 07:08 PM)
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#94086 - 04/13/11 07:46 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
believer
Member

Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 12109
I think I would wait for some actions on her part. So far it all seems to be just talk.

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#94099 - 04/13/11 08:21 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: believer]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
What would you consider action?
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#94114 - 04/13/11 08:46 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
believer
Member

Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 12109
Well, when she gets some counseling. Or brings out the big guns and decides you are F-able. Or asks what she needs to do to win you back. Things like that.
_________________________
In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible summer..Albert Camus

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#94155 - 04/13/11 10:07 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: believer]
CajunRose
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 5058
Loc: TX
Does she need to win Busto back when she left because of his actions and his refusal to fully participate in MC?

Busto's wife did a great job of getting him to make all the changes that she needed to see to be in the marriage. Kudos to her - and to Busto!

I think transparency goes both ways. You should have access to her stuff too.

Because you have kids and because you have so much baggage to sort through, I think you need to take this really slow. Start dating again - just the two of you. Keep separate places to live - and make sure W is still financially responsible for her stuff. Don't take over for her and keep the custody agreement in place too. I wouldn't let the kids see you together for a while. Then you can integrate family time, and then, after that's gone well, living together.

Your kids are young. They are going to be confused. You need to move really slow just in case either of you decide this isn't going to work.
_________________________
D6, S2

I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.

Separated Oct 2010
Divorced Jun 2011
New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4

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#94228 - 04/13/11 11:45 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Not2fun]
Don Man Don
Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 926
Originally Posted By: Not2fun
Originally Posted By: Don Man Don
It means she got dumped!


Ahhhh yes.....this makes sense!!!

Oh wait.....

Except.....


Don't be naive. You are being naive.

Almost 7 billion people plus. It ain't too hard to find someone less neglectful than your husband.

How many of you all flirt because you aren't getting it at home?

Don't be naive. You're naive.

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#94328 - 04/14/11 10:01 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: bustorama
...You are right when I asked her what her plan was she said she really didnt have one that she is still so emotionally all over the place that she hasnt had time to think about particulars of how, just that she does want to come back and work on things. She said she wanted to hear my plan this weekend after she finishes some work deadlines that finish on Friday.


Call me cynical, call me a skeptic, call me whatever you want, just don't call me late for dinner.

I'm not feeling it.

If she REALLY wanted to come back, she would make it top priority on her list. Why does she mention work deadlines? This marriage stuff is important to me but I'm kinda busy, can we talk about it when I'm less busy?

You're still guiding this and it's not working for me.

She left you,
and I'm sure she had a relationship with another guy in your absence or at least tried to have one and it didn't work out.

You are still not top priority.

And your plan,
well let's just say it's overwhelming for me, let alone how it will feel to your wife who as per your own post is all over the place emotionally - which means she's experiencing a ton of different emotions, you're in that mix but it isn't just you.

Take a look at your plan:
- retrovaille
- local pro marriage counseling
- 15-20 hours per week of together time (good luck with that, that math doesn't work, especially if you have kids unless you plan on having someone else watch the kids the entire week, because you're looking at an average of 2-3 hours of "together time" per day which I'm assuming is only about the both of you, no kids included)
- WORKING the EN questionnaire
- Mort Fertel Marriage Fitness videoconference pkg
- the Love Dare book exercise
- Marriage Builders workbook
- getaway vacation
- 1 date night per week

- Do you guys plan on working jobs during all of this time as well?

It's way too strong in my opinion,
and working really hard on a marriage makes it feel like... work and boy how fun that can be.

Slow is fast, Fast is slow.

Stop going Fast.

Slow down.

I like the vacation idea,
the date night idea is good too,
take a break from having to work on this marriage and attack each weakness with a logical approach because you will give yourself very high expectations and when you don't meet them you will be disappointed in yourself and your spouse and that will lead you down the path of resentment, you will feel like she isn't trying hard enough or vice versa.

Take a break from the analytical approach,
the brute force method will not work here.
_________________________
“Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”

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#94333 - 04/14/11 10:15 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
Pinhead
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 627
Busto,

I think Rob is right on the money here. You two really need to reconnect at a very simple level here before you try to "fix" things. I would date her, maybe once a week tops. Nothing super serious, just fun stuff. See if she's still fun. Don't talk about the girls, just enjoy dinner or a movie or coffee or something. See if you still LIKE each other. Pretend you don't have all of this baggage.

Do that for a month or so, maybe 5 dates total. Then think about how it feels.

There are a ton of warning signs to beware of, and Rob is right, you have a tendency to be too analytical. Reminds me of someone I know... wink

If you go through with your "plan," you're going to overwhelm her with pressure to fix everything all at once. Picture this as a small flame that you want to slowly and carefully fan into a fire. Give it too much fuel and oxygen at the beginning and you'll smother it.

And another thing you might consider, is while you're dating your wife, date some of the other women in your area...
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The best things in life aren't things.

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#94337 - 04/14/11 10:31 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
The "work" thing is not just low priority. She really is screwed up emotionally at the moment and she has low tolerance for anything in her life now -- she feels totally overburdened with her work. Right now, she has to work an average of 4-5 hours EACH NIGHT after getting home from work and you can see this would be challenging on nights that she has the girls.

At her IC appointment this week, her therapist suggested that she needed to check herself into a hospital and take a 1-month inpatient mental health leave from work. A couple of weeks ago her therapist similarly suggested she needed to take 2 weeks off of work for emergency mental health work. I'm not sure I've conveyed well enough how rough off she is emotionally right now. I see her wanting to delay to the weekend as she basically can't take anything else on her plate at the moment and wants to get to the weekend when she doesn't have her work stuff on her plate as well.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I, like you, am concerned that both her own emotional state and her workload (combined with our kid load) will make it hard for her to reconcile effectively. I mean I get your point that if now even at the outset she barely has the time or emotional investment to prioritize it, that she doesnt feel it enough to put other things on the backburner, that it may be a poor harbinger. That she doesn't really have the "right" motivation.

Re: my plan being excessive and smacking her over the head with brute force, I see what you mean. Still, I do think SOMEWHERE in our initial recovery we need some 3rd party thing (in addition to a vacation and fun stuff like date night). I mean we both have trust issues, possible mutual infidelity, my years of neglect and basically emotional abuse before that, blended family issues. We have baggage galore and I think we need professional help early on to help us deal with it. I mean I could see date nights and vacations maybe not going so well if they are too early in the process and some healing/rapproachment hasnt happened yet?

I have been more or less sitting back since her initial call and since she agreed to talk about things on Saturday. She is still texting and calling me during day to talk, still saying We this, We that. When "we go over to mutual friend's house, we need to watch D3 with their kids, etc. etc.." You are right though that she isnt banging down the door to get back into my life (can you come over, can I come over, do you want to go out just with me this weekend and hang out, etc. etc.). I'm not "feeling" that and have to restrain myself not to act that way towards her. She did say she wanted to get together over the weekend with the kids (this is my weekend with the kids). Normally, I would want to get a sitter forthe kids and have us go dosomething fun, but you and others seem to be telling me that would be me pushing things too much if she is not feeling the way she should be feeling?
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#94343 - 04/14/11 11:03 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: bustorama
Re: my plan being excessive and smacking her over the head with brute force, I see what you mean. Still, I do think SOMEWHERE in our initial recovery we need some 3rd party thing (in addition to a vacation and fun stuff like date night). I mean we both have trust issues, possible mutual infidelity, my years of neglect and basically emotional abuse before that, blended family issues. We have baggage galore and I think we need professional help early on to help us deal with it. I mean I could see date nights and vacations maybe not going so well if they are too early in the process and some healing/rapproachment hasnt happened yet?


There you go "thinking" again, who taught you such a nasty habit?

wink

Slow is fast.

Did you require a 3rd party to be involved when you started dating and going out?

Focus on fun.

If you want to go out on dates with her, once a week, once every 2 weeks, go ahead, but keep it low keep and don't invest yourself 100% into the process, be cool about it, don't come on too strong and definitely don't bring up relationship talk, live in the present.

Why invest in MC and Retro and vacations if you can't even go out on dates and be comfortable with each other without having the looming spectre of relationship talk hanging over your heads?

Go out several times, date like you originally did, after a few dates, you will know if you want to pursue marriage counseling, right now, I think she needs personal counseling, some time off work and reading this latest post, I'm wondering if her renewed desire to come back home and work on the relationship has more to do with her crazy work schedule and not being able to take care of the kids when she has them on her own - if work is as hectic for her as you describe it, that would be motivation enough for her to reconsider coming back to you just so she can relieve the pressure she's under at work by having you there to take care of the kids while she works her long hours.

Also, do you want to be with someone who works that many hours? She won't be around for you and you will resent her for it. Be honest with her (and this is tough for a lot of people going through situations similar to this), especially right now that you're separated and apart, "Honestly I don't think it would work out right now, you are way too busy with work, could you cut work back to normal hours, these 12-15 hour days are just too long, if we got back together, we would only end up fighting because of your work eating up all of our time. Is you work really that important to you? Looks like a couple of sources have told you to go on a mental leave of absence, I don't see this getting any better for you, something for you to consider before even thinking about us getting back together again, you need to re-assess your priorities and decide what is really important to you, I won't waste any of my time or energy until you get this part of your life figured out."

Busto, you said it yourself, she is really screwed up emotionally at the moment and has low tolerance for anything in her life, that would include YOU, don't set yourself up for a big fall, you've gone through enough already, you need a break from the craziness.
_________________________
“Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”

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#94393 - 04/14/11 02:05 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
gr8 day 2b alive
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1286
Loc: Brotherly Love
Busto,

take it slow, reread what happened in my sitch and learn.
Don't fall in love with the IDEA of getting back together.

Envisioning a great life together will do more harm than good in the beginning.

Think of it like cooking ribs....Low and SLOOOWWW
_________________________
Find a passion and pursue it.Fall in love.Dream Big.drink wine, eat good food and spend quality time with good friends.laugh everyday.tell stories. learn more. never give up. be grateful try new things be. happy. and above all, make every moment count.

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#94409 - 04/14/11 02:38 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Don Man Don]
Not2fun
Member

Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 1388
Loc: Gateway to the West
Originally Posted By: Don Man Don
Originally Posted By: Not2fun
Originally Posted By: Don Man Don
It means she got dumped!


Ahhhh yes.....this makes sense!!!

Oh wait.....

Except.....


Don't be naive. You are being naive.

Almost 7 billion people plus. It ain't too hard to find someone less neglectful than your husband.

How many of you all flirt because you aren't getting it at home?

Don't be naive. You're naive.


No, naive has been in my personality make-up for oh....3 1/2 yrs now.... grin

However, I'm not surprised that you would think so considering the caliber of advice you hand out regarding dating others while married..... wink

Not all 7 billion plus people make the decision to cheat and so far nothing Buster has written about his wife would lead me to believe she has......

Just because SOME people cheat.....doesn't mean EVERYONE does....

Not2fun
_________________________
If you aren't being transparent, then you aren't being authentic. If you aren't being authentic, then you are being a hypocrite."

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#94570 - 04/14/11 09:28 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Not2fun]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
N2F,
Steve has more than a clue about this, so do I.

There is nothing wrong with your point of view and believing in the good side of people.

However, take a look at the situation.

People in these situations tend to feel very entitled based on the resentment they feel towards their spouse, resentment breeds entitlement and when that happens the things a person wouldn't normally do gets thrown out the window and spouses that are all over the place emotionally will look for solutions in places they normally wouldn't.

I also want to believe nothing happened and that Busto's wife didn't do anything and we don't actually have proof either, but I've seen too many of these situations to discount the high probability that this did happen.
_________________________
“Man’s proper stature is not one of mediocrity, failure, frustration, or defeat, but one of achievement, strength, and nobility. In short, man can and ought to be a hero.”

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#94601 - 04/14/11 11:00 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
Don Man Don
Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 926
Girl. It all comes down to experiences. My lifetime experiences are different than yours. I am a very sexual person. I love sex. I think a woman's body is the most amazing incredible thing. I love the way it looks. I love the way it changes under my touch. I love the way I fit inside it. But I am also realistic. And from experience, I have learned that many many many women are sexual also. God bless them. Now granted some people repress their sexuality or don't understand their sexual, or for that matter spiritual, energies. But many many many women enjoy the act of making love. Its amazing. (For a moment, imagine being a slime mold or a fern. Wouldn't that suck?) Now, compound that with a separation, a husband who neglects their needs as a woman, a quick fix mentality, or spiteful attitude, or a couple months without an orgasm and it is not unrealistic a woman or a man wants to get laid.

7 billon people, 1/2 of them are men, give or take one half children. 1.75 billion women. And what a dozen or 2 buy into the divorce busting or marriage builders philosophy and a couple of them are either internet or physical cheaters anyhow. You are part of a very small minority. Tiny. Minuscule. It is not the way the world actually lives.

Now whether you are right or wrong, your morals and integrity are of a higher standard than someone else's or your god can beat my god in an arm wrestling match, it doesn't matter. The rest of the world is screwing the crap out of each other.

Dating as a method of Knowing Yourself in the midst of garbage times? You know. Out of a serious respect I will not talk about that on these public forums. Pookie69 started a topic in the thunderdome about punk rockers breaking windows over some nuclear health reform government issue. Its the topic with the picture of a toilet bowl. You can argue about that there.


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#94605 - 04/14/11 11:09 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Don Man Don]
Don Man Don
Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 926
"When I was a little boy I wanted to grow up to be Steve McQueen"

The Betty Crocker Theory.
Let's have some cake? As red roses signify love and passion and white roses, loyalty, purity, and a love stronger than death, The Art of Baking symbolizes something much greater for your relationship. Mixing ingredients of desperation and spreading false hope while indulging your spouse indicates you are out of touch with reality.

Who can resist a piece of Chocolate Cake with sprinkled Selfish Behavior and Co-Dependence? Is it not the most sweetest, indulgent treat someone could offer? "Me, Me, Me, I want you to want me. I want you to want me or I am depressed." It is a sacrifice to lose one's self worth and dignity in an attempt to control and manipulate another for one's own selfish desires. It is indulgent yet it is not festive or mysterious.

As we criticize those who want to have their cake and eat it too, we need to consider the intentions of the 'Betty Crocker Wannabe.' To bake and serve the side dish is to be the side dish. Consider before you a 24oz Prime Rib. It is the main dish which should be the challenge to complete. Bread, and pastries and brownies are but a side dish and a desert to relish afterwards. Notice the words 'challenge' and 'complete.' Since the beginning of time it has been "Survival of the fittest." It drives our need to succeed. Be it capturing a wholly mammoth, or harvesting a field of corn or procuring a healthy, successful mate. We succeed or we perish. There is no drive to be second best. Neither is there a second choice when you are a tree. You take in the sun, and respirate and reach for the sky. Likewise, you should not settle for second option in a relationship. You need to continually challenge your mate instead of buttering them up with pastries.

Settling for second option in a relationship poses some questions. 'What are they cooking up?' Can they know themselves if they cannot understand me? Can they truly love them self if they do not know how to love me?

There is a reason Tyson did as many sit-ups as he did. He could stomach anything thrown his way. He had no time for cupcakes.

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#95008 - 04/16/11 12:27 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Don Man Don]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
W called me when she got out of work wanting to hang out. Said she was in the mood for a drink. I said I'd pick her up. She said she was in the mood for a margarita so I said let's go somewhere new and we went to this Mexican place on the coast I had seen before but neither of us had ever been to. It was a wildcard but ended up being a good call. We had a great time.

She said she had a really good time and was even asking me if I had a good time. Said she wanted us to take a photography class together so I'd know how to use "our" camera (which she has). Said she told at least one of her friends we were getting back together. She brought up whether we should remodel or move to 'dream house.' Talking about future vacations together. She's not recoiling from my touch anymore. I tell her how smoking hot she is and she doesn't object or act offended like she did before. Real hugs, stroking her hand, touching her thighs, etc. Lots of eye contact and pet names. She said she wanted to hang out tomorrow and suggested some things she wanted to do.

Things feel positive. Still far from perfecto, but trending positive.

I'm concerned though about how to manage the wknd stuff cause some of the stuff she wants us to do together is family stuff (like going to botanical gardens with girls and her taking pics of stuff). The way she talks about stuff it is a foregone conclusion that we are reconciling, it's just a question of the details of how to bring our lives together. But if the ground falls out from under us, again, I don't want girls hurt again. You think I should just say, let's go slow and leave the girls out of stuff for at least a month?
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#95010 - 04/16/11 12:30 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
flowmom
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Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 6588
Originally Posted By: bustorama
You think I should just say, let's go slow and leave the girls out of stuff for at least a month?
or more.
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Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
flowmom
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Posts: 6588
That sounds really promising...I hope for you that you have a real hope for reconciliation. IMO it's less important why she is picking this timing - the important thing is that she is doing this for the right reasons and you are both ready to do the work. I think Retro is a really good idea if you are both serious about this.
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#95012 - 04/16/11 12:37 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: flowmom]
bustorama
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Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
I keep pinching myself in disbelief when she says the 'we' and the future plans. I am so serious about wanting to recover our R and M. I am less concerned about the "why now's" so long as her desire to reconcile is sincere and sustained. Cautiously assessing whether it is.


Edited by bustorama (04/16/11 12:38 AM)
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#95015 - 04/16/11 12:40 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
flowmom
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Busto...I think this is where vet input is really needed. This is a critical stage where the LBS too often prematurely jumps at the chance to reconcile. You owe it to your children to make sure that this is for real and to not rush it.
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#95049 - 04/16/11 03:06 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
catperson
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Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 7915
Originally Posted By: bustorama
You think I should just say, let's go slow and leave the girls out of stuff for at least a month?
More like SIX months. Come on. Be an adult, ok?

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#95050 - 04/16/11 03:09 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
catperson
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Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 7915
Originally Posted By: bustorama
I keep pinching myself in disbelief when she says the 'we' and the future plans. I am so serious about wanting to recover our R and M. I am less concerned about the "why now's" so long as her desire to reconcile is sincere and sustained. Cautiously assessing whether it is.
What this tells ME is that you just dumped EVERYTHING - ALL your resolve - just because you have the chance of having her back in your bed again.

Shame on you.

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#95065 - 04/16/11 07:59 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Originally Posted By: catperson
Originally Posted By: bustorama
I keep pinching myself in disbelief when she says the 'we' and the future plans. I am so serious about wanting to recover our R and M. I am less concerned about the "why now's" so long as her desire to reconcile is sincere and sustained. Cautiously assessing whether it is.
What this tells ME is that you just dumped EVERYTHING - ALL your resolve - just because you have the chance of having her back in your bed again.

Shame on you.


I think there is a disconnect between what I intended with what I wrote and your interpretation of it..

The part about me pinching myself is because her current behavior is so different from her previous behavior and was in affirmative response to flowmom saying that things sounded promising.

The part about being serious to recover -- I have been serious about recovering our R and M since the summer of 2009, nothing new there. I wrote that in response to something flowmom wrote where I perceived she was saying she hoped I had a real desire to reconcile and work to repair our M.

The boldfaced part about being less concerned about the "why nows" SO LONG AS....the part in boldface is critical. It is not an incidental, but a CONDITIONAL (SO LONG AS...). If she is sincerely and in a sustained way wanting to reconcile, why does it matter why now (in the short-term)??? For me, sincerely encompasses "honestly and for the right reasons" Sustained encompasses it not being some fleeting, waffling desire. The hard part, for me, is assessing this.

If you think my actions are ruled by getting someone into my bed, then I don't believe you understand the changes I've made or the discipline I've developed over the last year.
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#95067 - 04/16/11 08:28 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
if you want to date her,
date her,
have fun,
you're an adult,
what you guys do together is your business,
I would limit the family time together though,
and yes you're allowed to say "let's take this slow and not rush into anything and see what happens, I don't want to have high expectations about us and vice versa", even if she gets angry at hearing this, it's ok.

You're not easy,
if she gets you back that easily,
it will be much easier to leave you again.

As for her talk of dream homes and moving,
you're not actually purchasing anything or moving anywhere right at this second but you don't have to be a killjoy, if she wants to ride that emotional high thinking of future things like that, let her, those are her thoughts and feelings, smile, tell her those are cool ideas, ask her questions where she does most of the talking and you just sit back and listen, it's really not that hard.

If you guys have sex, no big deal, don't be falling head over heels in love all over again, remember the idea of being tagged, if you're cognizant of it, it doesn't work but if you're clueless, you have a couple sessions with your wife and be totally emotionally invested and fall pretty hard if it doesn't work. Just be cool, if she wants a relationship, let her show you why, not the other way around.

As for the compliments about how smokin' hot she is (LOL!),
slow down there big boy, don't be too eager, it's easy to read your poker hand that way and you want to be a little mysterious too, allow her to invest in you, the next time she calls out of the blue and feels like going for drinks or dinner, tell her "really? where are you taking me? take me to a good place and don't be cheap ;)" Allowing her to invest in you is a requirement, not an option. If she can't invest in you (time, effort and resources) then you have little to no value and she'll get tired/bored of you at the drop of a hat.

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#95069 - 04/16/11 08:38 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: catperson]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: catperson
Originally Posted By: bustorama
I keep pinching myself in disbelief when she says the 'we' and the future plans. I am so serious about wanting to recover our R and M. I am less concerned about the "why now's" so long as her desire to reconcile is sincere and sustained. Cautiously assessing whether it is.
What this tells ME is that you just dumped EVERYTHING - ALL your resolve - just because you have the chance of having her back in your bed again.

Shame on you.


I don't know what happened here?

Why should he be ashamed?

I don't think he came out and said it but even he had said "hey I miss having sex with my wife", is that such a bad thing? I certainly don't think so. The physical relationship is just as important as any other part of their relationship if not even more important than the other parts - sex between a husband and wife is, dare I say it, required for a happy relationship - men & women are sexual beings - ignoring that/not acknowledging that part is foolish.
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#95070 - 04/16/11 08:52 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
TimeHeals
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 2324
Loc: Tennessee
I'm with rob. You're basically back to dating.


You remember dating? The woman was always out ahead in the "planning the future together" stuff most likely, right?

Internally, you were always thinking, "Hmmm, we'll see" most likely, right?

It's the same thing. Proceed slowly. Date her. What else did you do back when you were dating?

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#95092 - 04/16/11 11:08 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: TimeHeals]
bustorama
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Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Kept living my life. Did my own thing and hung out with the guys too. Sometimes I would also date other women (though I stopped dating other women almost right away when I met my W). I don't think that would be the best idea in the current sitch anyway, and, like before, I don't feel like dating other women.

I do remember my W had us walking down the aisle WAY before I did. What's up with that anyway? Why is it the women are usually out ahead with the planning the future stuff when it comes to dating?
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#95104 - 04/16/11 11:34 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
flowmom
Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 6588
Originally Posted By: bustorama
I do remember my W had us walking down the aisle WAY before I did. What's up with that anyway? Why is it the women are usually out ahead with the planning the future stuff when it comes to dating?
Most women invest far more of their brain real estate in their love lives than men do. Many women indulge "fast-forwarding to the future" fantasies as a result. I've always focused more on managing my expectations, but I can see how it happens. I think that Rob and TH are giving you good advice. Date, but keep your children out of it. You have to prove to one another that you have a viable relationship before involving your children -- just like if there was any new woman in your life (yeah, I know it's not the same).
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#95105 - 04/16/11 11:34 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
TimeHeals
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Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 2324
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Kept living my life. Did my own thing and hung out with the guys too.


You never planned any of the dates? Hard to believe. grin

You have the internet now.

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/

http://www.tripadvisor.com/

What's there to do or see around where you live? Just throwing stuff out there. Planning a different kind of date might be a good thing at some point?

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#95150 - 04/16/11 03:03 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
Danf
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Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 4320
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: bustorama
I do remember my W had us walking down the aisle WAY before I did. What's up with that anyway? Why is it the women are usually out ahead with the planning the future stuff when it comes to dating?


Dude, (I think) most women have been planning out getting married and their wedding day since they were little girls. (Ladies, correct me if I am wrong!) My X had her entire life timeline planned out. At this point in her life, she needed to be in a serious relationship. At this point, married. At this point (age), had to have kids. This is how my life is going to go and I am going to be in a state of bliss. Unrealistic expectations. Then, when things don't go as planned, I am unhappy. I haven't been happy for years. You never loved me. Blah, blah, blah. Maybe I am just too jaded, but this is how I see things in the aftermath.

I also think you are getting good advice. Date. Be nonchalant. Whatever happens is ok with you. I remember when X and I first started dating. We were in college and it was very casual. Let's hook up at such and such bar tonight. Then we would hop around, go to the dance bar late and back to someone's apartment for casual sex. Then it was, ok, see ya later. Maybe a few days would go by without contact. She left school before I did and I thought I relationship was over at that point and it didn't affect me at all.

Somewhere along the line I got committed and couldn't live without her. Now I am seen as needy and desperate and that killed all attraction, if there WAS any left anyway.

Make HER chase YOU. Make HER work for it. You don't care either way anymore. She has to MAKE YOU want it now. Your life is good on your own.

IDK. I still suck at this, but I do have a date tonight!

_________________________
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#95156 - 04/16/11 03:36 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Danf]
flowmom
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Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 6588
Originally Posted By: Danf
Dude, (I think) most women have been planning out getting married and their wedding day since they were little girls. (Ladies, correct me if I am wrong!)
LOL, I was planning to be an independent globe-trotting careerwoman for as long as possible grin
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#95185 - 04/16/11 06:01 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
rob x
Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: bustorama
Kept living my life. Did my own thing and hung out with the guys too. Sometimes I would also date other women (though I stopped dating other women almost right away when I met my W). I don't think that would be the best idea in the current sitch anyway, and, like before, I don't feel like dating other women.


You don't think?!

Who said you were allowed independant thought?

Do what we tell you slave!!!

LOL!

You need to take a lesson from your own history book:
- keep living your life and maintain your individuality
- do your own thing
- hang out with the guys
- dare I say it, maybe go out a bit and experience the company of other women, call it a date, call it social interaction, how long have you been separated from your wife?

As for what you don't FEEL like doing...
you didn't feel like making the required changes that were required originally, took you a while to warm up to the ideas but guess what, you eventually learned better and you did things you originally didn't FEEL like doing and life eventually got better for you.

Don't push the counseling, retro or anything,
in fact don't bring it up anymore at all,
let her bring up those ideas.

For now, just date, if it happens once a week or once every two weeks so be it but don't try to date more often than that, you've been apart for so long, rushing into things will bring undesired effects in this. Have fun, no relationship talk, take some time to build up your own confidence in this situation, look at her with different eyes instead of the lovesick puppy eyes.
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#95586 - 04/18/11 10:00 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: rob x]
gr8 day 2b alive
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Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1286
Loc: Brotherly Love
Quote:
For now, just date, if it happens once a week or once every two weeks so be it but don't try to date more often than that, you've been apart for so long, rushing into things will bring undesired effects in this. Have fun, no relationship talk, take some time to build up your own confidence in this situation, look at her with different eyes instead of the lovesick puppy eyes.


Busto, this above. One thing to add, let her ask YOU out on dates.
I made the mistake of looking forward to the next date at the end of each date. Play it cool.
If you have a good time one the first date then say it. But don't say we should do this again.

gr8
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#95768 - 04/18/11 08:06 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: gr8 day 2b alive]
LovingAnyway
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Bustor,

I think your W is doing what she always has done--giving herself an emotional experience now for experiences she hasn't had. Dwelling in the future is fantasy and she's feeding on it, right now.

Before, when you guys separated, she was also feeding on it...telling herself stories of how it's not going to work, how you're not going to change, etc. She made her decisions based on those experiences she actually hadn't lived.

Will feel like mana from heaven, to hear her talk this way.

Understandable.

No more real than when she was talking the other way, 'k?

You might hear someone say, "Well, add that problem to the list" which indicates the person has a problem list. What they may not consider is that their biggest problem IS the list.

In your W's case, please consider.

She has an IC that your W said advised her to take a leave of absence and essentially, go into emotional rehab...that is a really strong indication that your W is really unstable right now. W has been in counseling awhile, correct? Several months? For this to be what she heard the IC advise, ask her to do, and not only is W not taking the advice she's paying a professional for, she's now turned her focus beam onto you and how you will be her cure.

Not healthy. Dangerous. Yes, her ultimate path of happiness is through you, the marriage and her intact family. How she gets there matters a lot. Because she can flip back to telling herself negative stories about you and again, devastate the family.

You know this, inside, you know this already.

The same thing that delights you can devastate you when it's used against you.

It's not a sign of anything...except that her attitude, her beliefs, were keeping you guys from recovery. Maybe you told yourself, if she changed her attitude and beliefs, then you guys could reconcile.

Not crazy...totally understandable. After all, you'd changed your attitude and beliefs after the online EA stuff. You really changed. And she left anyway.

Take that note--your actions are part of why she turned her beam onto you...not the whole. Most of it is her looking for an outside cure to what ails her, and that's not changed, 'k? Same thing, same outcome, eventually.

She changed her attitude by shifting away from negative thoughts of you (which excluded positive ones); and now has positive ones of you (which excludes negative ones). Same fantasy. And it's the fantasy that's the problem.

Her plan to save her marriage is required. Plans involve reality. Fantasy doesn't hold up to a plan.

Her emotional instability is her rock bottom...and without her getting to reality in that rock bottom--if you step in and save her from it...then you'll have to go through all this again, and again, and again.

Not what you want. Ever. This is a soul-crushing experience. You know that. So please take the advice to stop thinking about her stuff and stick to your own boundaries as your focus...for they truly will save you and the marriage.

Date, away from the kids...don't do the family together stuff because that will torment the kids if your W ends up hospitalized for a breakdown, and comes out ready to take on life with you as her crutch and captor.

Don't skip steps. Don't ignore your boundaries or give your enforcements a holiday, basing it on HER changes. That's what she's been doing for years with you...and you are doing her harm if you now focus on her and not your boundaries.

You are what's different and who does differently. I totally understand the inner gut feeling to have an MC involved...your W is in an emotionally volatile state. That's scary. You might be sucked into it yourself.

If you hear her talk with ownership...own what she did, why she did it and how and why she wouldn't do it again...as her own choices...not you making her feel she had no other choice...then you'll know she's up to making a plan. The absence of that is more fantasy...and you'll hear it...because what our thoughts think, our voice speaks, and so follow our actions. When it's fantasy in thoughts, know it for what it is.

LA
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#96503 - 04/20/11 04:43 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: LovingAnyway]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Hey everyone. So appreciative of all the feedback. Touching base SUPER quickly cause I just got a huge TOMORROW deadline dropped on me and my group. Life goes on in the midst of all this, eh?

I haven't gotten into any R, MC, retro, "plan" talk with my W since I last posted. I did say that I thought we should take things slow and she agreed. I said I have to make a decision here too, you know. She said something the next day that, "You said you didnt like me anymore and you had to make a decision."

I'm still trying to get a sense from her actions and words of where she is coming from, what her motivation is, what her understanding of her own role in things is, and of her behavior and choices. She seems more now like the W I fell in love with and less the foreign W, but with a veneer/wall of fear still. Hopefully, she will choose to act lovingly despite those feelings.

She continues to reach out to me (calling me, txting me, suggesting we get together). On Saturday we hung out at our pool/gym, which is almost like a resort. That was nice cause the kids could be put in the day care while we hung out together for a couple of hours. We flirted with each other and had a good time in and out of the pool. She said I looked really fit, I said something like, maybe if you're lucky you can see how fit.

She said she wanted to go on a vacation with me, and I said where would your dream vacation be, and she said somewhere tropical like Bora Bora or I would settle for Palm Springs. I said something like yeah I haven't taken you anywhere hot with water in awhile, have I? Then she said she wanted to go to Vegas in Mandalay Bay that she loved it there (that's one of the places we stopped when we were first dating). So, I said yeah let's have a little getaway, and we are figuring out long weekend dates for that, probably next month.

I took her to this new little brunch places that does crepes and mimosas that she liked on Sunday AM. She suggested maybe we could go back there for mother's day? She also said she wanted to go to dinner with me at this Italian place she has had her eye on for awhile.

It's funny, Rob, I was looking through this old transcript of messages I had with her when we first started dating (I had it bound and gave it to her one Valentine's Day), and you can totally see the high value view in me then. I am alot better now than I was before and still getting back to there, the flirty, playful, high-value self-respect. I said stuff then like, so you want to hang out with me, huh, when are you gonna fly me up? Hmmm, my man [Bleep!] services might be available, for the right person, etc.

In addition to the phone/txt contact through the day and evening, there are some positive signs in her actions, she leans up against me for me to hug her, she has initiated a few kisses (nothing passionate yet tho) and hugs. I'm trying not to push that and let it come from her.

Something I am VERY happy to see is she seems more emotionally stable now. Much less crisis mode. I think some of that was wrapped up in her PMS-time and maybe the Lexapro is continuing to help her. I do not want to be the rescuer guy.

Our mutual friends have been helpful in that they have older daughters and they have "volunteered" their older daughters to babysit the girls. My oldest daughter is best friends with their youngest so it works out. And my 5 year old has a crush on their 6 year old boy, so she doesn't mind either, hehe. They live almost next door, so it is convenient and are friends with both me and W. They may be the only couple that has clearly remained friends with each of us.

I've been keeping up with work and exercise. I had a comedic drunk long run gone bad Saturday night, then a real 12 miler on Monday. I have another half mara coming up beginning of June so time to get cracking again.

We do have some "family" things anticipated coming up? One is Easter, W wants us to go to service and Easter brunch/egg hunting activities etc. together. Thoughts on that? W also seems to expect we will do Mother's Day together? Thoughts?

I haven't told my parents or sister about any of these developments. Superstitiously afraid of jinxing things or of getting their hopes up and then having them come crashing down, kind of like protecting the girls.
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 539
Likes: 11
B
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Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
catperson
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Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 7915
By all means, cultivate the great memories like Easter service and egg hunts. I like your style.

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#96508 - 04/20/11 04:55 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
Pinhead
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 627
B,

One thing I've been thinking a lot about (you know me) is how the DB mentality overemphasizes thinking about and analyzing stuff too much. (Yes, I know that whole sentence reeks of irony).

Don't over-analyze too much. Let things just go. Have fun. If it's not fun, give it a day or two and see if the fun returns. You're a great dad, and your W is no slouch either. Just have fun, no pressure, don't worry about her motivations. You're a smart guy who will be able to tell if things are "right" or heading in the "right" direction.

I know that's hard to do because of your career training, but as my 6 year old told me yesterday, "girls are complicated," and trying to break down each of their actions/words/responses/feelings will lead you to a frontal lobotomy. Paralysis by analysis if you KWIM?

Enjoy these good times, you've worked hard for them.
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#96511 - 04/20/11 05:01 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: flowmom]
kimmie lee
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 2738
Loc: SEATTLE, WA
Originally Posted By: flowmom
Originally Posted By: Danf
Dude, (I think) most women have been planning out getting married and their wedding day since they were little girls. (Ladies, correct me if I am wrong!)
LOL, I was planning to be an independent globe-trotting careerwoman for as long as possible grin


Dan, you are right on about this. They just want a wedding and then they just find a groom to plug into the scenario. Lame.

And have you ever noticed how the bride is always beaming like a cat that swallowed the canary in wedding photos? And the groom usually has that deer-in-the-headlights look like, "Oh God, I have been sooooo had! Tagged, bagged, and out the door...." smile

BTW, like FM, I didn't spend my teen years perusing Bridal magazines and was/am fine being single. In fact, I think that I'll just stay single now and take a string of lovers as I see fit. I know that I don't want to live with anyone again, or have to answer to anyone again.

The so-called "American Dream" is nothing more than a sham anyway; farcical, really. It just doesn't exist except on "Leave It To Beaver."

Hey, FM, get a babysitter and let's go to Cabo!! grin
_________________________
THE FOG comes
on little cat feet.

It sits looking
over harbor and city
on silent haunches
and then moves on....C. Sandburg


GOSH!!
GOLLY!!

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#96516 - 04/20/11 05:08 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: kimmie lee]
girlfromipanema
Member

Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 524
Add me to the club. Never dreamed of the big wedding and all the hoopla. I've always been uber independent, but now that I am married, I see the value in having a partner. I love being a wife...

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#96528 - 04/20/11 05:30 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: girlfromipanema]
CajunRose
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 5058
Loc: TX
I played wedding as a little girl all the time. Knew exactly what kind of dress I wanted. With no prompting from me, my D5 has already planned out her wedding - she's going to wear "Mama's gettin' married dress" and have a party in my back yard, then she and her husband will live in my house and I will live next door. She will get a big car because she will have 4 kids (and let them do WHATEVER they want because she won't be mean like me), and she will drive me wherever I want to go and if I'm nice I get to sit in the front seat. The groom will likely be A, a boy in her class who has already proposed, but if he gets cooties she'll settle for B, the son of a friend. I suspect that Busto's D5 may be planning a wedding with the "older man" next door wink I love little girls!

I like being married. I hope to find a wonderful partner for me one day and marry again.

I'm glad that your W seems to be deciding to be your partner again, Busto.

Your call on whether you've seen enough changes in your W to reassure you that it's time bring the kids into it. I do think a weekend away for the two of you could be very beneficial.
_________________________
D6, S2

I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.

Separated Oct 2010
Divorced Jun 2011
New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4

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#96529 - 04/20/11 05:34 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: girlfromipanema]
believer
Member

Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 12109
I like the idea of having dreams and making plans together. That is one of the things that makes a marriage so wonderful.

It's encouraging to me that the Mrs. has places she wants to go with you. She sounds like she is considering a future again.

Set the bar high. Check in for help when she pulls out the big guns.

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#96539 - 04/20/11 06:06 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
kimmie lee
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 2738
Loc: SEATTLE, WA
Originally Posted By: bustorama
Hey everyone. So appreciative of all the feedback. Touching base SUPER quickly cause I just got a huge TOMORROW deadline dropped on me and my group. Life goes on in the midst of all this, eh?

I haven't gotten into any R, MC, retro, "plan" talk with my W since I last posted. I did say that I thought we should take things slow and she agreed. I said I have to make a decision here too, you know. She said something the next day that, "You said you didnt like me anymore and you had to make a decision."

I'm still trying to get a sense from her actions and words of where she is coming from, what her motivation is, what her understanding of her own role in things is, and of her behavior and choices. She seems more now like the W I fell in love with and less the foreign W, but with a veneer/wall of fear still. Hopefully, she will choose to act lovingly despite those feelings.

She continues to reach out to me (calling me, txting me, suggesting we get together). On Saturday we hung out at our pool/gym, which is almost like a resort. That was nice cause the kids could be put in the day care while we hung out together for a couple of hours. We flirted with each other and had a good time in and out of the pool. She said I looked really fit, I said something like, maybe if you're lucky you can see how fit.

She said she wanted to go on a vacation with me, and I said where would your dream vacation be, and she said somewhere tropical like Bora Bora or I would settle for Palm Springs. I said something like yeah I haven't taken you anywhere hot with water in awhile, have I? Then she said she wanted to go to Vegas in Mandalay Bay that she loved it there (that's one of the places we stopped when we were first dating). So, I said yeah let's have a little getaway, and we are figuring out long weekend dates for that, probably next month.

I took her to this new little brunch places that does crepes and mimosas that she liked on Sunday AM. She suggested maybe we could go back there for mother's day? She also said she wanted to go to dinner with me at this Italian place she has had her eye on for awhile.

It's funny, Rob, I was looking through this old transcript of messages I had with her when we first started dating (I had it bound and gave it to her one Valentine's Day), and you can totally see the high value view in me then. I am alot better now than I was before and still getting back to there, the flirty, playful, high-value self-respect. I said stuff then like, so you want to hang out with me, huh, when are you gonna fly me up? Hmmm, my man [Bleep!] services might be available, for the right person, etc.

In addition to the phone/txt contact through the day and evening, there are some positive signs in her actions, she leans up against me for me to hug her, she has initiated a few kisses (nothing passionate yet tho) and hugs. I'm trying not to push that and let it come from her.

Something I am VERY happy to see is she seems more emotionally stable now. Much less crisis mode. I think some of that was wrapped up in her PMS-time and maybe the Lexapro is continuing to help her. I do not want to be the rescuer guy.

Our mutual friends have been helpful in that they have older daughters and they have "volunteered" their older daughters to babysit the girls. My oldest daughter is best friends with their youngest so it works out. And my 5 year old has a crush on their 6 year old boy, so she doesn't mind either, hehe. They live almost next door, so it is convenient and are friends with both me and W. They may be the only couple that has clearly remained friends with each of us.

I've been keeping up with work and exercise. I had a comedic drunk long run gone bad Saturday night, then a real 12 miler on Monday. I have another half mara coming up beginning of June so time to get cracking again.

We do have some "family" things anticipated coming up? One is Easter, W wants us to go to service and Easter brunch/egg hunting activities etc. together. Thoughts on that? W also seems to expect we will do Mother's Day together? Thoughts?

I haven't told my parents or sister about any of these developments. Superstitiously afraid of jinxing things or of getting their hopes up and then having them come crashing down, kind of like protecting the girls.


Your w seems to be "expecting" you to just do a lot of stuff that SHE wants.

A little bit of cool, a little mystery from you may be in order here. A bit of aloofness now and then doesn't hurt.
_________________________
THE FOG comes
on little cat feet.

It sits looking
over harbor and city
on silent haunches
and then moves on....C. Sandburg


GOSH!!
GOLLY!!


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
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Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: kimmie lee]
girlfromipanema
Member

Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 524
I haven't read your entire thread Busto, but one thing that confuses me about the feedback you're getting is the amount of effort most seem to say your wife needs to show. In my situation, with my husband being unfaithful, everyone wants him to show all the effort. Why is your situation so different? Is it due to you waking up after her leaving you (because of your affair)? Doesn't that mean she executed a flawless "Plan B"? I understand why I'm getting the feedback I'm getting, but I'm not understanding the feedback you're getting.

Also, as the 'betrayed', if I left you, then decided to give you (and the family) another chance due to the changes you were making, THEN found out you were dating me in addition to other women...? Game over.

I know you're busy with your project and won't have time to answer, so I'll try to read through your thread (and over at DB to see if I can figure it out myself).

I am concerned about your wife's emotional state. Just this week the thought crossed my mind to check myself into a hospital environment due to being completely emotionally exhausted. One moment I feel strong, the next moment I'm ready to crack - and it seems as if your wife is in the same boat. Is it possible for her to take some time away from work and recharge?

I'm very happy for you and your family to have this chance at reconciliation.





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#96563 - 04/20/11 07:43 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: kimmie lee]
Danf
Member

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 4320
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: kimmie lee
Originally Posted By: flowmom
Originally Posted By: Danf
Dude, (I think) most women have been planning out getting married and their wedding day since they were little girls. (Ladies, correct me if I am wrong!)
LOL, I was planning to be an independent globe-trotting careerwoman for as long as possible grin


Dan, you are right on about this. They just want a wedding and then they just find a groom to plug into the scenario. Lame.

And have you ever noticed how the bride is always beaming like a cat that swallowed the canary in wedding photos?


Do you know WHY a bride smiles so brightly on her wedding day?


She knows she's given her last blow job!!

laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1 laugh1

Actually, I was VERY excited on my wedding day. Lots of my friends commented on how happy I looked standing in the front of the church. I REALLY did love my W. So sad that it has all gone to shinola.
_________________________
Me45
D Final(sort of) 7/13/11

My life has been extraordinary, blessed and cursed at once.
(Billy Corgan - Smashing Pumpkins)

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#96612 - 04/20/11 11:09 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Danf]
kimmie lee
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 2738
Loc: SEATTLE, WA
God love ya, Dan! I'm sure you speak the truth about many Bridezillas. highfive

_________________________
THE FOG comes
on little cat feet.

It sits looking
over harbor and city
on silent haunches
and then moves on....C. Sandburg


GOSH!!
GOLLY!!

Top




#96666 - 04/21/11 12:18 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: kimmie lee]
Danf
Member

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 4320
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: kimmie lee
God love ya, Dan! I'm sure you speak the truth about many Bridezillas. highfive



That is a joke an old guy at work told me years ago. He's got a load of 'em.
_________________________
Me45
D Final(sort of) 7/13/11

My life has been extraordinary, blessed and cursed at once.
(Billy Corgan - Smashing Pumpkins)

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#97043 - 04/22/11 02:45 AM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: girlfromipanema]
flowmom
Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 6588
I share your concern GFI...I don't really understand the basis for this advice. It sounds like it's the standard advice for dealing with a WAW/WW...but this isn't the standard scenario. I'm not convinced that free-and-easy dating is the best route here. I wonder if Retro could get things down to brass tacks with addressing the past and opening up true communication. I know nothing about infidelity though, so my input may not be useful.
_________________________
me44 + Pookie, S8, D5

I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM

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#97115 - 04/22/11 01:24 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: flowmom]
Pinhead
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 627
I think that Busto and the missus have some issues to work out; no doubt about that. But I think that due to all the pressure the two of them are under between work and kids, that just trying to enjoy each other's company is a good, healthy starting point.

Busto is naturally worried about his wife's motives for returning. And some skepticism is healthy and warranted. But I don't think she needs to walk across hot lava; both parties have done a lot of damage to the previous relationship. So it's time to see if they can have a new relationship.

From what I understand of Busto, he's pretty confident about his boundaries, what he'll put up with, what he wants. He just needs to explore that with Mrs. Busto; and dating each other casually is the best way to do that right now.

I do agree that limiting family events is probably a good idea so to avoid confusing the little ones.
_________________________
The best things in life aren't things.

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#102110 - 05/04/11 03:21 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Pinhead]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Things still going fairly well. Slow (is fast?) and in positive direction. W invited me to have lunch with her and kept texting me excitedly before and after our lunch the name of the restaurant (just excited about it) and if I liked it. I was camping with my girls over the weekend at a dad and daughters thing and W and I msg'ed alot, she kept saying she missed us (instead of missed the girls) and wanted me to come over as soon as we got back into town (which I did).

W is doing some positive things for herself. She has started a new regular fitness program and, with her therapist, is reading a book about being assertive/minding your boundaries/speaking up for yourself. She told me it was for our relationship, and I told her I thought it was wonderful and that it was important to me that she feel safe to express herself and her feelings. She shared some of her hurt feelings about the past with me one night, and I validated and held her, then we kissed. She's also been sharing with me alot of her frustrations with her co-worker and her job in general.

A couple of days ago she asked me if I would go to marital counseling and could I find a therapist for us. So, I have this marriage friendly guy I had identified before that specializes in re-establishing intimacy after infidelity that seems pretty good. However, lately, I've also been reading some about emotion-focused therapy which seems like it also could be beneficial in our situation. It's short-term (10-15 sessions), has good efficacy evidence for the orientation, there are some well-recommended and well-trained therapists in our area that use it, and it sort of sells itself as being especially effective when there have been "attachment injuries" that leave one of the people feeling scared, untrusting, unsafe to re-attach to a person that they thought would always protect them or be a loving, safe partner for them. W has used these exact words when describing her feelings, and I have a bit of my own trust issues towards my W from the past year of our M/R being under great strain. I can see that as being very relevant in our situation. Does anyone have any thoughts about emotion-focused therapy vs. classic solution-focused therapy for our sitch?

We are still keeping up with the fun stuff, btw, lest u get the wrong impression. Had a great time over easter with kids and also went to a wine bar for some adult fun.
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#102128 - 05/04/11 04:04 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
CajunRose
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 5058
Loc: TX
I read Sue Johnson's book on emotion-focused therapy and I was really impressed. That would be my first choice for repairing my marriage. You can always try it and change counselors/programs if you don't seem to be making progress.
_________________________
D6, S2

I didn't recover my marriage; I recovered me.

Separated Oct 2010
Divorced Jun 2011
New journey Nov 2011 with Night + D4

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#163451 - 10/01/11 09:45 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: CajunRose]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
Hey everyone =)

Wow, I've been trying to read up on threads catching up on things around here (and have kept in the loop a tiny bit remotely via Pinhead). It's a real mix of HOLY MOLY vs. SAME shinola DIFFERENT DAY. Very happy to see the good news continuing for Sunny, the surprise announcement from Pookie and Flowmom, and the return of City Girl. Amused as ever to see McQueen's cryptic pot stirring. Glad to see all from the MA/DB/MB gang talking, helping each other and (mostly) living. Great people you guys are.

Life has been very busy, and you vets weren't kidding when you said what a process piecing is. Recovery of our M has continued to go well, though. We are in escrow on a new house that we are so very excited about. Fresh start in so many ways.

So grateful for this second marriage. The advice and support I got from you guys here as well as our emotion-focused therapy have each been key. I really can't express properly how grateful I am for the different ways that you guys helped me individually and, ultimately, my M and family.

Just a ginormous THANK YOU!

(Pookie, please cue the mariachis)
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#163454 - 10/01/11 09:57 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
I am so glad to hear from you my friend.

There is an unclaimed case of beer between us. wink

Cheers.
_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#163455 - 10/01/11 10:00 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: pookie69]
bustorama
Member

Registered: 11/14/10
Posts: 356
LOL!!!!! Too funny. You are so right though, I forgot about the U.Conn cervezas. Did you PM or email me ur mailing/shipping address?
_________________________
Me-40
W-36
D9, D5, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010

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#163459 - 10/01/11 10:02 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
No I did not, but keep it to yourself and for your honey.


_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#163462 - 10/01/11 10:04 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: bustorama]
flowmom
Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 6588
Awesome to read your update smile
_________________________
me44 + Pookie, S8, D5

I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM

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#163464 - 10/01/11 10:09 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: flowmom]
believer
Member

Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 12109
_________________________
In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible summer..Albert Camus

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#163471 - 10/01/11 10:18 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: believer]
pookie69
Member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 6390
_________________________
"A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving." - Ayn Rand

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#163472 - 10/01/11 10:20 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: pookie69]
flowmom
Member

Registered: 11/19/10
Posts: 6588
laugh
_________________________
me44 + Pookie, S8, D5

I'll make it all worthwhile, I'll make your heart smile ~ DM

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#163847 - 10/03/11 02:52 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: flowmom]
Pinhead
Member

Registered: 11/08/10
Posts: 627
Ah, so many funny memories. Foot rubs, all sorts of pursuit. You and I were the masters of pursuit...
_________________________
The best things in life aren't things.

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#178097 - 11/14/11 09:46 PM Re: Bustorama #1 [Re: Pinhead]
So Inspired
Member

Registered: 11/18/10
Posts: 198
Busto, I'm like 40 days late but I'm glad to see this latest post from you. Good work. smile I'm very happy for you and your wife.
_________________________
You will never leave where you are until you decide where you would rather be.


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
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I just realized that my thread was missing several months of journaling I was doing in another forum, so I added it here in case it is useful for others. Sorry the formatting may be a bit hard to follow.

The cross-posts begin on p.6 of the thread and resume more or less from where the previous ones left off. She calls me to begin reconciliation on the second message of this page.


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
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Started reading. Wow! Will continue reading tonight. Thanks for posting this. May have questions later.


Me:37
H:GONE

Happy and loving life.
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Busto,

Those updates are a bit tough to follow due to formatting, but I'm glad your situation is steadily improving. I remember reading it cover to cover a month or two ago and being very inspired. Please continue to update for people like me who sometimes just need to know that this process can and does work. And feel free to stop by my thread and give me some advice, I sure could use it wink


M:28 | W:28 | T:4.5 | M:2.5 | No Children
EA1 Uncovered: Jun 2011
EA2 Uncovered: 2011-09-29
S: 2011-09-29
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Yeah, sorry about the formatting.

To clarify re: the new stuff I posted. They aren't updates so much as fill in the blanks. They are posts to another forum that spanned from 11/10 to a bit after 4/11 (when W decided to reconcile). I had resumed posting on here I think around 10/11 or 11/11.

It was hard to tell from what I had posted before what actually had happened from my last post on DB (ca. 11/10) until my W and I began to reconcile almost 6 months later, so I was trying to fill in the missing pieces. Those missing pieces may be more important than anything I had posted before (what you and what others had read cover to cover), so I though it was important that the whole story be posted in case the end had (the) important pieces.


Me-53
W-49
D22,D18,D15
T-Since-12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing start-04/2011
Now-together
Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
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