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KAW Offline OP
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Well ... LL,
Looks like your "last" thread finally locked up and of course it happen over the weekend, so I couldn't get my 2 cents in on your closing posts. Funny thing is I could have made mention of it at any prior prior time before the conclusion of this thread if I had just remembered it sooner.

Quote:

that tony, is exactly what I'm trying to avoid...
if I simply go about making myself happy and enjoying the family with my children and h stays just the breadwinner and sometimes partner and father then eventually will I tire of this m? will I reach a point where I say enough is enough...I've put in my dues...I raised the family now it's time for me to have a full and involved r with another adult? will h by then have grown and realized there's more to life than work and football? or will he stay the same and I'll just move on and away from him?


I don't why I hadn't thought about this sooner, maybe because it wasn't up to now that I needed to look at my sitch in a similar light ... but when Andy use to be around, he would say (and lets hope I can repeat as well as said it) , that thruout one's life, each person, either by his own awareness or not, shift thru phases in attitudes ... and with each attitude there's a shift of what becomes personally important. Each individual is unique, so there are no two that go thru the same combination of the number of phases and their duration. So for two people who come to live together, they usually start of in sync (phase) like sprinters in their starting blocks, but over time like sprinters jumping hurdles, we become out of sync as we enter into diffrent phases of our own and we tend to no longer see things like we or our spouse use to. Different things become important to each of us ... but in time, those phases will shift again and could quite possibly come back in sync again.

I have only recently seen how this is true between CAW and me. At first we seem as were paying attention to our interests we were in sync and so we seemed to bond very closely. Then our interests began to shift and we no longer saw eye to eye as much and even our actions in M became out of whack. When she wanted to put effort on "fixing" on M, I didn't think there was anything needed fixing. (Sound familiar?) I tried to give her some concessions on what she wanted, but because I didn't see them as important, I really didn't put my heart into it and eventually she just gave up. Then the tide shifted again and as she developed other interest, then I began to want to put attention into "us". Short version, LL ... years later we're still out of sync. CAW is in a phase where for at least the past two years, she wishes to escape into a fanatsy world ... but I'm still hoping that we will survive until the next time-phase where we may re-align ourselves back into sync once again.

Right now your H may be happy with just concentrating on work and football and may seem like he's stuck there and won't change (was over ten years for me) ... but it is a phase and at some point will start to see things differently and his interests / attitudes will change. NOBODY stays single-minded on one track for their entire life. Who knows what it will take for the shift to happen ... maybe it you finding a radically different path to take with the way you interact with H ... maybe it will only take the kids getting older and their interest change to another phase ... maybe some irate customer to go "postal" on him ... maybe it will take the planets being in a totally different alignment. It really doesn't matter because while you may be able to influence it, you do not control your H's phases. So the question now becomes, how long are you willing to wait for you and H to get in sync?

... and I know you said you did your last thread, but technically this is not yours since you didn't create it, but I got the feeling it will take more than a post or two to come up with an answer to that question and until you do, I don't think you're quite done here in piecing. So feel free to hijack this thread and take it as far as you need to go with it ...

... another words, I gave you a loophole here just in case you changed your mind about the last being your last thread ... afterall, what are ole DBing pals for if not to find more ways to give support?!

'til later,
KAW

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#1


Good going, KAW!

Both with your VERY insightful post and creating this thread!

Hi LL!!!

Shiny

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Thanks KAW. I feel bad as I was the last one to post at LL's and locked it..Cathy

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so you guys really don't want me to leave !

very thoughtful of you KAW.

I skimmed through your post while dd pushed her way around trying to give me and the puter kisses so I'll have to come back and read it again when I have more time to actually absorb what you've said.

I know there's work to be done.

here's a little positive even if it doesn't happen...

ok so we all (those who know me anyway) that the way I came to know of ow, was that she had asked my h to drive her to a treatment and they were seen there by one of MY people thus he told me he was there with her.

why is that relevant??....

because over the past couple of months I've had an issue with my eye that has required me to drive into boston and have it checked to see if the problem has resolved itself or not..

h has not made himself available to help me with the kids for these appointments and it was a real sore spot for me because he DID take ow, granted a slightly diff time of year but STILL.

so I have an apointment this thurs and h said..."I'll see if we can get my mom to watch the kids" (ok so I thought he was just covering himself and trying to find a helper for the kids) then said "and I'll see if I can come with you"

now folks, even if it doesn't come to be that he can come in with me...the simple fact that he of his own initiation brought up the topic is HUGE!

LL

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KAW Offline OP
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Holy smokes! When I compiled this post, I didn't know Andy had returned just today!

As you see Andy, altho it may be jumbled inside at times, I do constantly churn thru all that wisdom you had passed onto me, always looking for ways it can be applied to better improve the outcome of my sitch. More often than not ... it does help guide me in the seeking a direction to take ... and I'm trying my best to pass it on so others may also benefit for your wisdom.

'til later,
KAW

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Quote:

then said "and I'll see if I can come with you"






Even the thought and effort must mean SO much!!! I KNOW it would to me.



Shiny

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Quote:

Right now your H may be happy with just concentrating on work and football and may seem like he's stuck there and won't change (was over ten years for me) ... but it is a phase and at some point will start to see things differently and his interests / attitudes will change. NOBODY stays single-minded on one track for their entire life. Who knows what it will take for the shift to happen ... maybe it you finding a radically different path to take with the way you interact with H ... maybe it will only take the kids getting older and their interest change to another phase ... maybe some irate customer to go "postal" on him ... maybe it will take the planets being in a totally different alignment. It really doesn't matter because while you may be able to influence it, you do not control your H's phases. So the question now becomes, how long are you willing to wait for you and H to get in sync?





here's the real kicker KAW,

I have been waiting for h to come around for the better part of 10 years (ok so we've only been married for 6 of those years) and it only seems to happen when I give up...thing is now we are married and I can't just break up with him...I'm here.

here's the even more depressing aspect...

while I sat and waited and waited for h to have time away from work or football...he just got busier and busier...always with the promise that in time things would slow down for him...he'd have more dependable stable help...he'd have a strong customer base..."just let me get through these few weeks" " the winters comming" "this is just a busy time" etc etc etc...I knew h would always be engulfed in his work...it's who he is...I also knew that football was important to him (ok so I worked most sundays so I didn't know just how damn important then again I think he's gotten worse with age) I figured I'd be busy with the kids and that stuff so it would balance out..thing is I am obviosly capable of doing it all and wanting it all...I am a mom...a housekeeper..a fixer of dinner and doer of laundry..a tucker inner..a book club leader...a volunteer emt...but that's not enough for me...I'd still like a full and loving and passionate (damn it I want passion) relationship with a man.

I had started to accept that this was my life..that h was tired and worked alot...that he did so to provide a good life for son and I and our soon to be born child...that h was just who he was and yes work was enough for him...only to learn that he too was looking for a r...he too was looking for passion...he too wanting a r with a woman...he just realized that woman wasn't me.

I can have myself a real pitty party over it all but I wont..it means little to me at this point.

h is home..he's not going anywhere...says he will not do "that" again as he doesn't want to live that life..etc etc...he does put forth effort (gee he did just come and ask me if I'm going to watch any football with him tonight and if it was 'his' team I would but he was gone from 2 yesterday afternoon til 5:30 pm tonight because of 'his' team and ya I know that sound bitter...really i don't care...I enjoyed myself last night here alone with the kids)

I obviosly could go on and on...

I've been through the cycles before of my pulling away from the r and his then trying to pull me back in. my fear is that I will just learn to accept life as it is..after all it is a typical m minus the a and the seperation and the almost d (but then again that's pretty typical too aint it)

I guess what I'm saying is that there is nothing now to keep me from falling into the same trap that h did...not like m means anything these days...

LL

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Hi LL,
Are we leading parallel lives here? I don’t get here often but whenever I do I read your thread and I think, I don’t need a thread, LL does it for me LOL
Quote:


sleep?????????? what the heck is that????? the kids are in bed by 8 (usually) and if I go to bed a 10 that's but two hours for me to do whatever I want..wich may include catching up on some laundry or other task that is difficult with the kiddos underfoot...and let's not forget the only time LL can take a shower is when the kids are asleep and can be left alone for ten min without the roof falling in (or a big ole mess being made) dd wakes most every morning around 5 am and not happy as she really isn't ready to wake at that hour...last night she woke at 2 am but not before I was already awoken by the wind blowing out the power thus sending the alarm system into a constant beep...wich of course I had to go attend to while h just rolled over.

I'm tired and I'm tired of being tired...life is difficult enough and full of enough questions that I think it extremely unfair that I should have the added burden of what h has put me through.



I could have written this word for word myself

I am reading The Manipulative Child at the moment. Putting that stuff into practice looks like it is turning my life around the kids are MUCH better behaved. If you do decide to read it and give it a go, PLEASE get H to read it too before you start. I f***ed up and went with the program before explaining it to H. He now thinks I am bullying them and not allowing them to be kids. This is NOT the case.

I also realise from reading it how my H must have been brought up allowed to get away with too much. He was basically spoiled and now 'cus life is not a bowl of cherries he can't cope. He never learned how to deal with life's ups and downs.

Now I am letting the kids come to terms with it if I say no I mean no and they are getting the picture. This week my son has been up and downstairs several times on errands for me, started dressing himself. Not arguing when I say put your coat on etc etc. Both of them have been putting their toys away properly when I ask them too. If only our H's could be trained like this - LOL Can you just picture it, plonk your H on the step and say "you can stay there til you learn to behave". I am just dying to try it - lol lol


Quote:


here's the even more depressing aspect...

while I sat and waited and waited for h to have time away from work or football...he just got busier and busier...always with the promise that in time things would slow down for him...he'd have more dependable stable help...he'd have a strong customer base..."just let me get through these few weeks" " the winters coming" "this is just a busy time" etc etc etc...I knew h would always be engulfed in his work...it's who he is...I also knew that football was important to him (ok so I worked most sundays so I didn't know just how damn important then again I think he's gotten worse with age) I figured I'd be busy with the kids and that stuff so it would balance out, thing is I am obviosly capable of doing it all and wanting it all...I am a mom...a housekeeper..a fixer of dinner and doer of laundry..a tucker inner..a book club leader...a volunteer emt...but that's not enough for me...I'd still like a full and loving and passionate (damn it I want passion) relationship with a man.




Again you could be writing my story LL. One of the reasons I had kids was to have a bit more company around the house – go figure. H would come in from work too tired to engage in conversation, either slump in front of the TV or do yet more work at home, or play computer games. I just thought “I can’t live like this, I need to have someone around me I can chat to, have a little fun with etc.” So I went ahead and had kids. Don’t get me wrong I love them to bits but that was maybe not the wisest solution.

Take care

Fran


if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs
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hey fran,

the kids aren't bad...they're just kids...the stuff they pull is "normal" and they don't get away with it...it's mostly dd 2 who drives me bananas climbing on everything in sight...she knows where the snacks are and if I leave the room for more than a min or two (like say to go to the bathroom) I hear a chair drag across the kitchen and return to find her standing on the counter with the cabinet open getting herself some crackers. this too shall pass..


...........................................................

so as I mentioned before h himself made the suggestion of getting his mom to sit the kids for me so I can go to the eye doc on thurs without worry...and even said he may come with me.

this am he has called (already!! lately not been hearing from him til afternoon) to first say that he thinks he's getting sick again...to comment on dd's crying this am..and then to let me know that he should be able to go into boston with me for the eye apt.



LL

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LL,

Of course we don't want you to go away. You won't believe this coming from me, but you are an inspiration to us all! Looks like KAW started your new thread for you, so "my last thread" could really be your last thread, and we'll just keep making new threads for you.

I don't know what to tell you LL. I've thought that I would be happy if my W came home even if it meant not having sex. It's been so long, that I'm having my doubts about that! I've been doing some serious thinking lately, and the reason we don't want to get divorced is because we are being selfish. We want our spouses to come home to make OUR pain go away. We don't care about their pain at all, just come home to make US feel better. Your H is home, but you're still in pain! Is it worth it! We have all learned that most D's are not about sex. There is always SOMETHING missing in a relationship, or something aggravating that forces the person away. Our spouses find the one thing that is missing in their marriage in another person, and run to them.

The key to your success is to find out what that one element is. You do bitch an awful lot LL, and I just don't think it's on this board either. Men don't like to put up with that. Hell, I would NOW! LOL! You have done enough studying to learn what caused D, how to prevent it, and how to keep your spouse at home. You know what he needs to do, have you figured out what YOU need to do????? Maybe if he gets what he needs, you will get what you need. Men take their wives for granted, period! Your life is not much different than most young married couples. You are a good mother, wife, cook, maid, dishwasher, etc. That is what most men need, a mother! I've said this before, I just don't understand why some men don't like sex??? And I've learned it a high number too, around 30% Now I'm just guessing about this, but I would think the numbers are reversed for women. I mean REALLY like sex! So the odds are against us having a sexually fullfilling marriage! Why did God do this to us????

Don't get frustrated when you talk to your H, and he doesn't seem to be listening, he's just a man! He can't help it! That's how we're made. You also know the times of day NOT to try to talk to him! I NEVER listened to my W, and look where it got me. Sure we had ( at least I thought so ) a great sex life, but I didn't have "all the right words" She tells me her and the OG aren't having sex. It's awful hard for me to believe that, but possible. I know that kills you thinking about your H and OW, so just quit thinking about it, THEY HAD SEX, SEX, SEX, OK? Hell, he wasn't a virgin when you met him!!! Oh yeah, I think he was?

It doesn't matter LL, he's home, keep him there, and you stay there too! I don't believe in MC. I don't see how a stranger can solve your problems. Besides, they are all divorced too! Sit with him, talk to him, ask him what he needs to get what you need. Tell him how serious it is. Tell him you are thinking about having an affair. Then ask him if he would be interested in being the person you would have the affair with. MAKE HIM LISTEN, my wife never did that!


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