Are there signs?

[dday101798]

sad thing happened last night though. My daughter was in bed and I hear crying. So I go in there and she starts to tell me that she is really missing her mommy and that she wants her to come back and live with us forever. So I just wrap her in my arms and tell her I know, I'm sorry she feels this way. I miss mommy too, all we can do is pray for mommy and let mommy know that we love her.....

Situation handled VERY well!

[Wildaces81]

dday, thank you, thinking about it brings tears to my eyes. My wife is so blind to it. It hurts that my kids are hurting. I don't know what to do other than what I said to my daughter last night. Which it seems like it is occuring more frequently now.

Keeping on and keeping strong for my kids

Aces

[Wildaces81]

Anyone have any advice?

[Onthemountaintop]

Hi there Aces,

First - your W said she left the OM (or he left her). This is a great sign. She wants sex. Again, great sign. She acknowledges issues and you do to - excellent!

Could I ask you some questions:
1. Do you think her anxiety issue is getting dealt with?

2. Do you think the OM is gone?

3. Does she know you understand your M problems let her feel the OM met her needs more than you in a moment of bad (very bad/evil) judgement?

4. Does she know that the door to your H is her house and she is welcome back?

5. Would she try going to Retrouvaille to see if it might spark some love?

6. Dates, including sex, might lead to love. Have you read, "His needs, Her needs"?

7. Deep down, do you believe she was having sex with the OM? If so, are you sure you are OK with it?

____________

Some ideas to consider right away:

*You're doing great, keep working on your own issues.
*If you lose it, apologize.
*Touch if it feels right. If she asked for sex, she wants your touch.
*Make sure you always remember that while IDLY might feel terrible, it can't be argued off. Emotions are never right or wrong.

I never loved my wife. Probably, my 'love bank' for her had a low balance throughout our M. Now, I feel a lot more for her. If the theory holds true, my 'love bank' for her is much more full. It is so full that her love has influence and impact on me each day. I can imagine if your W feels nothing but she used to, then meeting her emotional needs may help her love again.

And time. Things take time.

[Wildaces81]

Onthemountaintop, thanks so much for your reply.

Hi there Aces,

First - your W said she left the OM (or he left her). This is a great sign. She wants sex. Again, great sign. She acknowledges issues and you do to - excellent!

Could I ask you some questions:
1. Do you think her anxiety issue is getting dealt with?

2. Do you think the OM is gone?

3. Does she know you understand your M problems let her feel the OM met her needs more than you in a moment of bad (very bad/evil) judgement?

4. Does she know that the door to your H is her house and she is welcome back?

5. Would she try going to Retrouvaille to see if it might spark some love?

6. Dates, including sex, might lead to love. Have you read, "His needs, Her needs"?

7. Deep down, do you believe she was having sex with the OM? If so, are you sure you are OK with it?

____________

Some ideas to consider right away:

*You're doing great, keep working on your own issues.
*If you lose it, apologize.
*Touch if it feels right. If she asked for sex, she wants your touch.
*Make sure you always remember that while IDLY might feel terrible, it can't be argued off. Emotions are never right or wrong.

I never loved my wife. Probably, my 'love bank' for her had a low balance throughout our M. Now, I feel a lot more for her. If the theory holds true, my 'love bank' for her is much more full. It is so full that her love has influence and impact on me each day. I can imagine if your W feels nothing but she used to, then meeting her emotional needs may help her love again.

And time. Things take time.

Yes she says that she left him, but I remember that you should only believe half of what they say and do. So can I be one hundred percent sure? No, do I want to believe her yes I do.

To answer your questions
1. No I do not think her anxiety is gone. She recently told me she had anxiety and that she wish it would go away.
She is also not doing anything about her depression. She says she needs to "fix" herself but isn't taking the steps to do so.

2. I think he could be, she says she deleted him off of FB and also that she has been ignoring his texts. But I also think there is another guy. With my stupidity I snooped when she left her cell up stairs and I looked. There was a guy telling her how fine he thinks she is. This could mean nothing and I treated it like so.

3. She has said that he would "talk" to her. And also told her he wanted to do things with her. Like take her to museums and the like. I really dont know if they did all of this stuff. The whole talking thing bothers me because I would try to get her to open up to me but she wouldn't or if she did she was half truths. I don't think she sees it as bad judgement because she believes we are not married any more. So in her eyes it is okay...

4. Yes she does know that the door is always open. That I am willing to do everything to get us to be a H and W again, and a whole family.

5. I don't know if she would try Retrouvaille. She is completely against MC so I don't think she would do this. Also she says she needs time. So I'm not pushing her into anything. I ask her out to dinner and the like but I do not push our R or M talk on her. I just want to give her a good time with no incentive of sex or anything else. I want to show her that I can love her with out expecting anything back.

6. I have not read it I plan on picking it up this weekend or next. I have read the 5 love languages, and I am also currently reading Hope for the seperated by Gary Chapman.

7. Deep down I do believe she had sex with OM, No, I'm not okay with it but I am also not vindictive nor do I plan on holding a grudge. I do, if we reconcile, want to address it and then move on. I haven't been a person to shove things back into her face, ever. I believe I am capable of forgiveness.

All in all I feel like I'm in limbo. I feel as though she has no idea what she want(yes mind reading I know) but that is how I feel.

She says she needs to fix herself but hasn't taken any steps to self improvement. She constantly goes out to bars and clubs. And has also been smoking up alot(her words) because of her back pain(her words) One of her "roommates" has a license to grow medicinal pot and she smokes once a night.

I'll post more. I think this is long.

[Wildaces81]

Throughout the 7 years we have been married she has said things like "Why are you with me", "I'm not a good person", "I don't deserve you".

Also throughout our marriage I feel like I have been battling her own demons that she has gathered from her childhood and teenage years. But I have never held it against her. I have always accepted her for who she is.

My mistake is that I became depressed and selfloathing because I didn't get a job in my field after I graduated. I worked graveyard at my job and didn't have weekends off, so taking her out was really hard. So I know my mistake. I now work days, I have weekends off, and inspite of what is happening in our M I can say that I'm no longer depressed I have my goals in mind. I'm going to go back to school. And I want to take her out as much as I can(180) to show her that I can be what she wants.

I'm GALing as much as I can. and I have made new friends that support me and want me to do what is right.

My trust in God is coming back. I know he has never abandoned me and I am thankful.

Please I know there is a lot of people on her but Sandi2 or anyone else that can help I would appreciate it.

Aces

[Onthemountaintop]

sounds like she needs an IC. Do you think you could touch her on the arm, tell her you love her for giving your M another try, and that you'd support her if she wants an IC to deal with past issues and to realize all the good things you see in her? (or whatever works)

An IC can make things worse, too. But if you can't take the emotions, what other options are there for deling with many old issues? You might be able to counsel her, or she may do it on her own, but I wonder if she'd need a more neutral person.

The fact that you can love her and welcome her despite the cra* you had to take tells me that she has many good reasons to love you. She probably wants to feel that your love isn't pity or some weird thing.

Be patient. I know I have to remind myself of that, but it is always important.

As far as Retrou, it isn't MC. It is very different. It deals with building empathy so, for example, forgiveness can be fully realized. It also helps with getting more shared values and plans over time. Think of it like skill building in making a R survivable. Another way to look at it is like helping you rebuild instead of repair the R. There may be other similar options, but this is the only one I know of.

Good to hear you are planning on the book. I think it would help you understand her and why she acts like she does a lot.

You can learn many skills, but understanding someone helps you want to use them, even when you are in pain.

[Wildaces81]

Onthemountiantop,

She does need IC, she is stubborn though. I could touch her and tell her I love her. But I know these are things she doesn't want to hear. She doesn't want to work on our marriage because for some reason she feels as though she needs to be free or something like that.

I know that I was controlling when it came to money. I never felt like we had money to go and do things, when things got bad between us(mainly me finding out about OM) I started to ask where she was and when she was going to be home a lot more. Again I know my mistakes and I know I can correct them.

She does know that she is always welcome back, will it remain to be like that. I don't know I wish I did. But as of right now I'm not giving up. I have the want to work things out even if she doesn't. If that means I have to back away and become unavailable to her I will. I know the goal is to make myself better for ME. but ultimately we all want our spouses back.

Be patient. I know I have to remind myself of that, but it is always important.

I know so do I. I pray for it every day.

The Retrou, sounds like a good idea but I'm sure as of right now she wouldn't be willing to go. We have been seperated for 3 months, so my patience might be lacking a bit.

She constantly tells me she is sorry for hurting me. Honestly I'm tired of hearing it. I know your sorry but if you truly are wouldn't you do more than say it. Wouldn't you want to show it? I guess she really has by leaving.

It sucks that she had to go to these measures to wake me up but at least I did wake up. I go to IC every week, I have been reading books like crazy. I know that if she does end up filing I will be prepaired to be a better man and father. I don't know if I will ever give up on her. I love her dearly. It is my hope that she will see this inspite of how she feels someday. I hope that her not feeling deserving of me(her words) is something she'll get over and see that it isn't just me that wants her to be around but our kids. They miss her so much. And only seeing her in the morning is starting to wear on my daughter. It is heart breaking.

I have learned a lot of skills, and yes you are right I can use them even when I am in pain. I just want to learn more of them. I want to be better for me and my kids. I don't want them to grow up with the flight tendency that my wife has. I want them to believe that things can be worked out as long as you are willing to try.

Sorry this is long but I could go on forever.

Again Sandi2 or PrairieGirl if you could give me insight I would appreciate it.

Onthemountaintop and Eric thank you for all your words.

God bless,
Aces

[Onthemountaintop]

I could touch her and tell her I love her. But I know these are things she doesn't want to hear.

I'm going to go out on a limb to say it sounds like your fear, too. Touch her and show her that you love her, or at least want her. ILY is a phrase that you may not need to say (or shouldn't say) right now. Show your love.

I get the money thing. For me, I tried to teach her how to be frugal by comparing prices, but the message she got was 'don't spend money'. This was consistent with her initial view when she came to Canada - that the money was 'mine'. It is too bad that money became a bigger issue during the OM times. One more battle, but you're up for it, right?!

Keep letting her know, not begging or pursing, that you want her back and you want her happy. IC is for everyone on D row - parole comes for those who do it. Either freedom in a happy M or freedom in a new R, but the IC at some point is needed to vent/get help.

She's left the OM. Now is the time to plan and act carefully. She is missing him. If you aren't there either, doesn't that leave her alone and more depressed than ever? If you can't or won't be patient enough, then you it will be many more months before things work out. If you aren't in control of your emotions, anger, feeling of failure/hurt/rejection, then how can she be expected to deal with her issues and you at the same time? You can figure out a solution if you want it badly enough.

Wouldn't you want to show it? I guess she really has by leaving.

She's messed up right now. She misses the OM and you, but she doesn't want to go back to a situation that she hated before she left, either. Then, there are the issues that may need an IC...

I'm very impressed that your are making your commitment into action. Your daughter may be young now, but I'll guess she'll be very proud of you later regardless of what happens.

[Wildaces81]

I'm going to go out on a limb to say it sounds like your fear, too. Touch her and show her that you love her, or at least want her. ILY is a phrase that you may not need to say (or shouldn't say) right now. Show your love.

Sorry I didn't explain that good enough. I don't say I love you, but I do touch her, I hug her all the time. And not some lame ass hug I HUUG her. Just like I always have. My fear holds me back from saying things to her but it doesn't stop me from touching her.

One more battle, but you're up for it, right?!

Damn right I am. I will fight and keep on fighting.

She is worth it to me. I haven't been begging her to come back I just let her know that I am here waiting. Maybe this is the problem though. I tried to go dark or dim but that wasn't working at all. I will just have to keep trying different things. I know all those tunnels aren't cheeseless...

She did actually show interest in what I was doing today. Which is something she hasn't done since she left the house.

I came out and asked her last night what she is looking for in life and in general. I asked her if leaving has really made her happy.

She replied with a no, that her life sucks. Mainly because she doesn't see our kids as much. This is where I went into I want you to be happy. Our house is always open to you. I want you to work on yourself.

I really do hope that she will look into IC. Because I know she needs to be working on things she just pushes it down and keeps doing it. She has been her entire life.

I really do hope that my daughter and my son will see that I have fought for them to have a complete family. My daughter has started to break down more and more. She says how much she misses her mom, and how much she wants us to be married. She drew a picture of my W and I in a tux and a wedding dress yesterday.

My W is really short with my daughter and tells her to not ask her to come back and to not cry. To be tough and hold it all in.
Grr it really upsets me. I am doing my best I really am.

Aces