Just not sure how much MORE of this I'd have to put up with to save my M.
Without a boundary you will continue to put up with it. Boundarys are healthy and good for your marriage. She will respect you when you stand up for yourself. Put yourself in her shoes and look at your position towards her. Being a Nice Guy doesn't work, we know here because we were just like that.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Been almost a week since that little overnight episode and I'm journaling a little bit to focus on minimizing my contact with her.
Talking to my therapist she assured me that it was probably okay if I "check in" with a call or Email just to say "is everything okay" regarding her depression and her recent self-destructive behavior. Aside from last Wednesday, the day after she slept over at my place, I haven't actually done that. I'm very hesitant to place these kinds of calls (or emails) in the event that she's doing better. And I feel that if she's not doing better she's going to end up at my door or calling me or something anyway. She'll try to use it against me again maybe, but there's nothing I can do about it. I'm living my life and have told her many times that if she desperately needs to talk to me I would listen.
This Saturday I'm attending W's play. I guess that seems contradictary to my 180, but I think as long as it's something I want to do and not something I'm doing to win her over it's okay. We have a mutual out of town friend coming in to see it and I figure this way I can be supportive of the theater (which I WAS a part of and would like to be again some day) and have some good moral support there with me.
I definately want to see the show because it sounds like it's going to be really good, and having gone over this issue several times I do think it would be stupid to not attend because of OM's involvement. If he has half a brain he's going to stay far far away from me. If not I think I can handle acting like he doesn't exist (already been in that sitch once.) I think I've got a lot going for me walking into this event...
-Lots of theater friends will be around I haven't seen in a while who I can catch up with (several of whom hate OM and know what's happened to me) -A very good supportive friend coming from out of town to see the show with me who I can catch up with (and have a convenient excuse to go my seperate ways with after the show ends and old theater buddies not in the know might ask me to go out to eat with the cast). -W's mother is attending and she's been very good and understanding towards me. -Added Bonus, my going might make OM nervous, depressed, or angry. Not the reason I'm going but if it happens, great.
I am trying to think about the potential pit falls of this outing. I tried to get a small army of my very good friends to come with me but they all turned me down (gave excuses but I think they just don't want to have to talk to my W yet. Understandable.) I think I need to focus on talking to my out of town friend, catch up with select theater friends who I miss, enjoy the show, and keep my contact with W very minimal unless she seems very eager to converse with me. Also planned a little cocktail party at my apartment afterwards as an excuse to congratulate her on her show and zip home. Not sure how many people are attending that, but even if it's just 3 people it'll be fun.
This week I'm going to work on some artistic things of my own, go out for coffee and read, maybe meet up with friends one weeknight, and try to get some sleep (feel a throat thing coming on!) I think I might carve a Jack-O-Lantern. I wonder if I'll miss all this freedom of choice and not having to schedule or coordinate things with anyone if I do get back with my W?
In spite of it, the temptation to give her a quick check in is there. I just have to keep reminding myself that for ME it's unnecessary to changing things, and so she should probably continue to be the primary innitiator of contact until I have something significant to present to her. At the current rate the next thing I have to bring to the table would probably be steps further apart, so I hope she's getting that impression...
Age: 28 Wife's Age: 28 Relationship: 10 Years (dated on and off) Married: Less than one year Seperated: 1.75 years, finally served with D 4/30/2011
I guess my continued patience is paying off. W finally called again last night, woke me up at midnight to talk because she was lonely and missed me. Said she missed being around "warm" people and that I was a very "warm" person.
She did start to complain about OM, but not in a relationship context, in a work/theater context. In general sounds like he doesn't respect her as a director and an authority figure (kindof already knew that he didn't respect people in general.) I acted generally disinterested in that with "Oh... interesting..." and didn't take the bait to bash him or pursue a discussion about him.
She innitiatied R talk. She seems paranoid that I'm getting ready to leave her or date someone new. I laid it all out how it really is: I want to work on our marriage, am willing to start doing that if she can do it, and in order for that to begin she must give up OM. Once again she didn't promise me anything, but tried to insinuate that after her show is over (again Oct. 25th) things could start moving in that direction. I plainly explained to her that I'm taking care of myself and my life is moving on one way or another and I do love her and hope she decides to work on things with me.
I feel like I'm handling things pretty well, but I feel like I'm stuck at a critical juncture for the next two weeks and am going to have to maintain a balancing act of non pursuit without seeming cold or uncaring.
I'm starting to think about how I'm going to present myself after this play is over? I'm okay with reuniting one step at a time, and almost feel like it's in both our best interests to remain separated a little while longer and ease back into things with joint therapy. But I will need her to give up OM 100% for any of this to get started and how do I go about monitoring that if we're not living together??? How does one enforce transparancy without shooting thier spouse's privacy to hell even if you are living together???
I don't want to be Mr. Drastic Ultimatum but I feel like I should have something in response to her inevitable "I don't know if I can do that." Maybe tell her that I can't talk to her until she can give him up 100%? My hope is that things are going badly enough between them that they'll both want to end it, but that's probably hoping for too much.
Age: 28 Wife's Age: 28 Relationship: 10 Years (dated on and off) Married: Less than one year Seperated: 1.75 years, finally served with D 4/30/2011
I don't want to be Mr. Drastic Ultimatum but I feel like I should have something in response to her inevitable "I don't know if I can do that." Maybe tell her that I can't talk to her until she can give him up 100%? My hope is that things are going badly enough between them that they'll both want to end it, but that's probably hoping for too much.
That's not drastic at all. You can't force her, but you can specify the relationship you want. You shouldn't have to share your W, emotionally or physically. I have no idea how to tell anyone this without making it worse. But you deserve better. I'm sure someone here can give you advice on how to do that.
Originally Posted By: Frosty Michael
I'm starting to think about how I'm going to present myself after this play is over? I'm okay with reuniting one step at a time, and almost feel like it's in both our best interests to remain separated a little while longer and ease back into things with joint therapy. But I will need her to give up OM 100% for any of this to get started and how do I go about monitoring that if we're not living together??? How does one enforce transparancy without shooting thier spouse's privacy to hell even if you are living together???
In situations where trust has been violated, privacy goes out the window if a person wants to make up for that. She will have to give it up. You want to respect her and give her freedom but that transparency is vital and you need to demand it if there is a reconciliation. And it works both ways.
Slow is better, especially after trust has been lost. I know from experience that jumping right back in can be just as devastating as a bad breakup.
~Mark
Me: 38 W: 34 Together: 9yrs 1st M: may '03 1st D: april '08 1st bomb: june '08 remarried: oct '08 2nd bomb: aug '09 --(W asked for D one week into 3 mo. trial separation which was meant to save our M)
I think I'm preparing myself for the worst here and I'm probably right to do so. It's very likely that if I ask her for complete transparancy she will find that to be so unreaonable because she will feel like she's capable of controlling herself (even though she's proven that she's not.)
I want things to start getting better but I feel like I'm probably heading for a much nastier stalemate than where we are now.
Any good advice about Transparancy folks? What specific things do you do to start getting the trust mojo working again? And how do you go about suggesting them. I was thinking about compiling a list of things she could do and presenting it to her as third party advice that made sense to me. I know some couples trade phones, share Email accounts etc. But even with those things if we don't move back in right away what stops her from starting a new secret Email address? I just don't feel like I can enforce any of this and I don't want to HAVE to. I want her to regularly let me know what's going on.
I guess first though I just want her to tell me she can give him up 100%. If she can't even promise that there's no point having trust building tactics lined up.
Age: 28 Wife's Age: 28 Relationship: 10 Years (dated on and off) Married: Less than one year Seperated: 1.75 years, finally served with D 4/30/2011
You can't present Transparency until she comes to you, fully broken and remorseful, with some sort of an "I'll do anything -- tell me what I have to do, I want to help save our marriage" talk.
I know I've been a bit of a ghost around here for the past month, but thought I'd update. I hope anyone still reading this is doing well under thier respective circumstances.
Without chronicling the entire past month of events, I would say that some things have improved. W has made some important discoveries about herself and mistakes she's made in her IC which she has been more diligent about attending weekly. Our communication has been hit or miss since I went from dark to dim, but in the past few weeks has improved a lot. I've established a boundary of never ever wanting her to discuss OM or her problems with OM with me and she's begun to respect that. Most promising of all she agreed to meet with me tonight in front of her counselor. I don't expect miracles to come out of this one therapy session but until now she has not been willing to even attempt this. When we spend days together (about once a week) she has become much more intimate with me (snuggling etc.), this may or may not be good if it's cake eating.
However the situation is still fundamentally the same. She has yet to take any very noteworthy actions to move towards a real reconcilliation. I assume OM is still very much a part of her life until I hear otherwise (even though she has admitted on many occassions that he is bad for her and they don't have a future.) In fact due to her fragile emotional state (cutting herself, thoughts of suicide see above), W's therapist has actually advised her NOT to make any life altering decisions. That bothers me because she's being told to keep living her life like this which, as far as I'm concerned, will ultimately result in the decisions being made for her, rather than by her.
I've prepared a one page letter to read in front of the therapist to make sure I get all of my most important concerns voiced (in a non threatening, informative way.) I want to tell her basically that...
1: I'm very concerned about her mental health and would like to do what I can to support her in a difficult time, BUT the situation prevents me from being able to be a good listener when OM is the problem so I'm open to suggestions about how she would like me to show my support.
2: I feel angry when she brings up my past failings to throw in my face, since I have already apologized for and recognized them, but under the circumstances am unable to make up for them yet.
3: I have been very patient, resillient, and as understanding as any LBS can be, but it's too painful to live one's life like this and I won't be able to wait forever.
She already knows that I am resigning from my Job Nov 30th to thoroughly explore the alternatives to our marriage (moving to a new city, finding a new carreer etc. All things that would make me happy and help ease the pain of my loss.) I hope to get a better sense of where this is all going from her tonight, or at least gain some valuable insight and get a chance to communicate honestly with her with a mediator to keep us focused.
Age: 28 Wife's Age: 28 Relationship: 10 Years (dated on and off) Married: Less than one year Seperated: 1.75 years, finally served with D 4/30/2011
Well having met with my wife in front of her therapist I'm still left feeling uncertain and conflicted. Which I guess doesn't surprise me.
It's clear that W is far from ready to make any comittments. But she's willing and eager to schedule more therapy together, which is good. Her therapist seems to be on the ball about a lot of things and conducted our session well. But she also seems to enable W with some kind of "nobody makes mistakes there are only differences" philosophy. Like I was ready for marriage and W wasn't so it's not anyone's fault that the marriage didn't work. I guess I'd rather say it was both our faults but let's get solution oriented and not beat ourselves up. How is having an affair with an emotionally abusive SOB not a mistake?! How is continuing to date him while concurrently saying you love your husband and really need time to yourself to "figure things out" not a mistake? How is getting yourself into a situation where you're so mixed up your cutting yourself not a mistake? Sorry venting a little. W needs to give herself a kick in the face and wake up to the world she's living in.
I'm feeling pretty devastated right now. I don't know where else to go from here. I've quit my job, and I need to move out of our old Apt. to save money but I'm not up to the task. Half of me wants to move somewhere new and date new people, but I'm afraid when January comes I won't be able to let go. All my hopes and dreams about the future revolved around us being together. She's been my best friend for 9 years and I'll probably never know what we could have had working together. I'm ashamed and embarrasssed about this joke of a marriage. In less than one year the best part of my life turned into the worst. I'm having a hard time focusing on the positives about my life, I know they're there but they just don't seem to matter right now. Even though I know this isn't really my fault I can't help but feel like this is the biggest failure of my life.
Age: 28 Wife's Age: 28 Relationship: 10 Years (dated on and off) Married: Less than one year Seperated: 1.75 years, finally served with D 4/30/2011
Her therapist seems to be on the ball about a lot of things and conducted our session well. But she also seems to enable W with some kind of "nobody makes mistakes there are only differences" philosophy. Like I was ready for marriage and W wasn't so it's not anyone's fault that the marriage didn't work. I guess I'd rather say it was both our faults but let's get solution oriented and not beat ourselves up. How is having an affair with an emotionally abusive SOB not a mistake?! How is continuing to date him while concurrently saying you love your husband and really need time to yourself to "figure things out" not a mistake? How is getting yourself into a situation where you're so mixed up your cutting yourself not a mistake?
What a bunch o' crap. That therapist isn't doing your wife any favors, and that kind of enabling is only going to allow your wife to continue in her immature outlook on her world.
Quitting my job was a tough decision. It's a decent job, but it's not in a field I feel any passion for nor to I have any future aspirations for moving up in the world of banking.
I went to school for English and Creative Writing. Since I graduated I've written 2 novels, numerous short stories, several screenplays, and helmed an online web series. That's the stuff I feel passionate about. But naturally it's not where the money is, unless/until you get a big break. Needless to say I was content to have job security and income during the current Economic pits.
But now, my 9-5 day in day out daily grind is just another source of dissatisfaction for me. I've been working a job I get no joy out of. My wife has expressed that even if we did get back together, she would NOT want to live in my apartment. It was where we moved in when we got married, and she has always had an aversion to it because her grandmother died there. I agree, the place is full of bad memories now more than ever.
I want to get a breather, explore all my options and be ready to up and move somewhere new and exciting if in the coming months I realize I have to get out of this situation. Quitting my job was not only a way of letter her know I'm serious, but it also frees up my time to visit new cities and explore. And I'm hoping it permits me to spend at least a few months enjoying life a little more.
I'm very lucky that I've diligently saved over the years and can afford to do this. I'll probably store my things and live with my parents for a short while to cut my living expenses. I'm also lucky that I don't have any children with her to support and consider. I'm really only looking out for #1. Not by choice, but I might as well enjoy the freedom it grants me.
Age: 28 Wife's Age: 28 Relationship: 10 Years (dated on and off) Married: Less than one year Seperated: 1.75 years, finally served with D 4/30/2011
