On the way to cub scouts last night I mentioned to S8 how I appreciated that he, S5 and his mother managed to make it to church the previous day. S8 replied that they had actually left Mr. OM's house in plenty of time, at "ten o'clock", to make it to church.
I replied, "Oh, you left at 10 PM last night? You didn't stay the night at Mr. OM's place after all?"
S8 clarified, "No, we did stay overnight. We just left at 10 AM in the morning to make it to church on time."
So that confirmed again that they had an overnight under the same roof, against our legal agreement. Thus I knew what my next step had to be -- to contact the Parenting Coordinator (PC).
I had to talk via phone with the PC (I don't know why he doesn't just give out his email!) He heard my concerns and seemed somewhat sympathetic to my position, especially since ex is in violation with the court at this point.
He suggested that I send a letter to ex and state for her my official objection to her violation of our agreement and tell her that I had talked to him (the PC) and he had suggested that I contact her myself to communicate my position.
I had already been thinking along these lines, but didn't know if I wanted to lodge this with her first before contacting the PC or vice versa. Now I am glad I talked to the PC first.
Time to write that letter of complaint.
After that? Well, I can expect xW to get pretty nasty and respond with a lot of false accusations. She'll likely start talking again about taking me to court to rest any custody rights away from me altogether. Stuff she's threatened before.
But I'm no longer going to let it bother me or sway me. She can bankrupt the both of us further through legal proceedings, but whatever -- she's flighty enough to do so anyway even without my lifting a finger.
No, I will take it one day at a time. I'm going to just enjoy my time with my S's and ignore their toxic mother.
It's funny -- I can find the time to spend true Christian compassion for just about anyone anywhere anytime now of days. But for my ex and her cohorts, I simply won't waste my time any more. They're in God's hands, totally and completely where I am concerned.
It's going to make my threads here all the more sedate, but so be it. I may rant about something from time to time, just to vent and get it out of my system, but I hope eventually to really be as indifferent to xW and her nonsense as she likes to make me out to be.
To that end, I have been thinking about when to shut down this thread and start a new one -- in keeping with the moderators' wishes that we self-manage thread length. Does anyone have any suggestions for good thread titles?
You need to pick your battles carefully. The kids have already met and stayed over with OM. It sounds like the kids are ok with it. Why fight it anymore? What do you have to gain but more indifference between your XW and yourself. And it does seem that more legal fees will be incured.
I understand your moral stance on this and if you want to continue to battle on this part it is your choice.
On the way to cub scouts last night I mentioned to S8 how I appreciated that he, S5 and his mother managed to make it to church the previous day. S8 replied that they had actually left Mr. OM's house in plenty of time, at "ten o'clock", to make it to church.
I replied, "Oh, you left at 10 PM last night? You didn't stay the night at Mr. OM's place after all?"
S8 clarified, "No, we did stay overnight. We just left at 10 AM in the morning to make it to church on time."
Nocodes - did it feel good putting your son in that position? You set him up for than answer. Shame on you. I was eight when my parents split and I knew when my dad was playing me for ammunition. Luckliy my mother rose above all that nonsense and I now appreciate the hurts she must have gone through in order to maintain the peace in my and my sister's lives. Kids hear more than you think and they draw their own conclusions even if they don't say anything. They also don't want to be disloyal to either parent.
You are too good to do this to your sons. You are going to make them suffer for their mother's sins. Whatever she has done she always will be their mom.
I know what my dad did. I know what he was, and can still be like. I know who the 'grown up' and caring person in their M was. Doesn't a good old bible story with a baby and 'two' mothers come to mind?
In no way do I condone what your W is doing and I would want to commit murder in your shoes, BUT there are more important things at stake here than your W and showing her what she can and can't get away with. You will end up making your son's frightened to say anything to you and they will learn to be quiet or filter the truth in order to keep the peace. Unless you think that OM is physically/mentally harming your son's I would really advise caution at this juncture.
Unfortunately your W knows just which buttons to push with you and she seems to be an excessively unkind woman.
As an aside, I was once told that utter indifference was the most hurtful reaction one person can give another - rather than rising to the bait perhaps you could try that at this juncture and leave the big guns for a time when you may need to pull out something bigger. I don't think your ex would like to think you were indifferent to her - she may no longer want you as her H but she still enjoys whipping you; don't give her that satisfaction.
I don't mean to seem uncaring......I just wanted you to know that this grown up 8yr old remembers which of her parents took the high ground - and it paid off.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Great advice Saffie! My parents too got divorced (mother had an affair) and my father had to let go of his personal feelings when it came to my brother and myself visiting our mother and OM (our future step-dad). From my perspective, it was a very peaceful divorce, even though I knew full well the hurt my father had placed on him by our mother.
Here are the 12 worst parenting mistakes that divorcing or divorced parents can make:
1. Leaning on your child for support during this time of pain in your life is unhealthy and inappropriate. Children can not help their parents through the adult task of mourning the loss of a marriage! And loyalty issues will leave a child feeling guilty for siding against a parent or possibly disproportionately angry at a parent for leaving him with this burden. This is the time to lean on family and friends so you are strong enough to allow your child to lean on you.
2. You should never speak badly about your ex to or in front of the children. Although it may be difficult, it is not healthy for the children to take on your adult issues, even if they directly relate to the child. As a common example, a parent should not share with a child whether or not the other parent is paying child support, how much child support or when the child support doesn't come in no matter how tempting it may be. Because your child shares flesh and bone with your ex, any criticism of your ex will also feel like a criticism of the child and will erode his or her self esteem. This is never healthy and is certainly not productive.
3. Treating your child like a buddy and relating to him or her as a peer is a common change that occurs after some divorces. While it may be tempting to commiserate with your child since you have both lost something important in your lives, your losses are different. Your child is not a mini-adult!
4. Mothers of sons and fathers of daughters should be particularly careful that they do not put their oldest child into the position of "replacement spouse", "man of the house", "woman of the house", etc. Children need to feel like children and feel the security of knowing their parent can and will take care of all adult responsibilities.
5. Spoiling your child in order to divert his grief or pain is not a healthy way of dealing with his pain or yours. If you are the parent who has moved away from your child, you may have an even larger temptation to fight off since your time together will be so limited now. It feels important to make that time memorable to your child and what child doesn't love new toys? But more than toys, a child needs to feel stable and safe. This can be obtained through parenting "as usual", despite the changing life around you all. No child wants a toy to replace a parent.
6. Transferring your hostile feelings about the divorce or your ex onto your child is unhealthy, at best. Many children already feel like divorce is their fault when, of course, it never is. Although your child shares blood and genes with your ex, whom you may resent and despise, the child did not choose for any of this to happen.
7. Never discuss parenting time, custody or child support issues in front of the kids. This means no discussions during routine transfers of the children from one home to the other. It means no cell phone conversations with your children sitting in the back seating listening in. It means waiting until they go to bed or are out of the area before making phone calls to discuss adult issues. You probably felt it was important not to argue in front of your children when you were still married with your ex. This is just as important now that you are divorced! Even if you can discuss issues civilly, children should not be privy to them. It is far too common for children to overhear these discussions and feel as if they are the cause of the issue or they are a burden to one parent or the other. Children do not like to feel like a business transaction!
8. Alienating a child from the other parent is an all-too-common, often subconscious tactic that parents may use during or after a divorce. Alienating is a form of brainwashing where one repeatedly insists, to the child, that facts and feelings exist between the other parent and the child until the child begins to agree, whether true or not. When alienated long enough, children may resist any bond with the other parent and that parent may, out of frustration and hopelessness, sever ties with the child. This is the worst no-no any divorcing parent can commit and it has a name: Parental Alienation Syndrome.
9. Putting your child in the middle is one of the most common divorce no-no's. Asking your child questions about the other parent or time spent with the other parent, or asking your child to relay questions and information between parents are all harmful methods of putting the child in the middle. Parents should always communicate all issues privately between themselves and any questions or concerns about the other parent's home or situation should be directed at the parent, not the child.
10. Never put your child in the position of choosing. Most states have statues that require a child to be almost an adult before being capable of choosing where they want to live. Some states never allow the child this choice. This is because a child has natural healthy loyalty toward both parents. Being asked to make any choice between parents - whether the choice is who has custody or whose house the child wants to spend Christmas at - puts the child in the awkward position of shifting their loyalty away from one parent in favor of the other. This can leave them feeling guilty, resentful, angry and sad.
11. Don't make your child's special occasion an opportunity to focus on your marital resentment or hostility. Let your child's birthdays, holidays, school performances, dance recitals and sports events all be opportunities to focus on your child and how proud you are of your child. This is not the time to discuss parenting time issues, child support issues or to berate each other or ex-relatives. If you question your ability to be polite or civil, consider taking turns at special events or limiting your attendance. Often times, though, events will be large enough for parents to both attend at opposite ends of the room, leaving the child to interact freely with both sides of the family without fear of disruption or drama.
12. Although going through a divorce can make a parent feel emotionally needy, this should not be shared with your child through action or word. A child who feels a parent's neediness too much will begin feeling guilty or fearful of leaving the parent when it is time to spend time with the other parent. In some situations, children can feel so guilty that they no longer feel good about leaving the parent at all, even to go to school or to play at a friend's house. This is a huge burden to cast on a child.
Kerry, How about the OM ("Old Man" Ed in your case) if he claims that your kids are his too? How would you respond? If you speak badly of him to your kids are you hurting them?
If I were to speak badly about Ed around the kids, I do believe that I would be hurting them. They would also get a sense from me that I hold resentment and I would rather demonstrate that it is better to move forward and not focus on the past. They love him, but they also know full well that I am their real father. It was a giant leap to put some faith in the old guy, but it is working out well so far. I do know that he was estranged from some of his own sons (who I think are older than my XW) but that he has redeemed himself in his later years. But I also am not buddies with him as he is a dishonorable wife stealer.
I needn't add anything to what the others have re-itterated what I've already said. But once again, this keeps up, in time it's going to do serious damage to the relationship between you and your sons.
Like Saffie, I am the produst of D'd dysfunctional family. Do the extreme cirumstances, I have dis-communicated myelf with BOTH of them. It was hard enough only one, but now both.
Me 35/XW 33 S13 & S12 M: 10/17/98 OM & S: 07/08 D final 06/09/09 12/03/09 - 06/13/10 "Piercing" 06/13/10: Engaged to Re-marry 10/17/10 06/25/10: Expecting baby #3 2/14/11
Perhaps it's time I take a break from all of this.
I am not really understanding where all this vehemence is coming from -- or why the full lumber yard of 2x4's are being leveled at my head when a "word to the wise" would have been enough.
It is especially confusing when I look at what real harm is going on with my S's and that never elicits such a response. I am asking myself if these are really just knee-jerk responses because so many of you are COD's (children of divorce). Could you be projecting your own particular hurts on me and my children? Am I suddenly the whipping boy for disgruntled COD's? I don't understand this sore lack of even-handedness. Why the pile-on even from folks who rarely if ever comment on anything else in my life, let alone offer words of support and encouragement? Seriously, I'd like to know.
Or are my own priorities and perspectives out of whack? Is there something more harmful in my attempt to find out from my S about how his other parent is treating him than not to? You all say that if there is no real harm being done to my S's then I should butt out, right? Well, how would I ever know if something harmful is happening to my children if I don't inquire? I am not interrogating my kids or any sort, but practicing as much discretion as I can without being totally in the dark about their condition. But are you seriously going to tell me that children will voluntarily offer up the information, even in the best of parental relationships? Can you guarantee that? And some of you have stridently told me to curtail allowing my kids to even broach such subjects as well, so even there I would be cutting myself out of even being a haven for my S's. You really think that is sound parenting?
Again, maybe I don't have my head on straight, because I am not following the set of priorities that I see being outlined here. Too many contradictions. And too many emotions.
I think I need a bit more than anecdotal experience to fully accept your arguments. Someone really needs to make a much better case, because I am now starting to doubt the very suppositions (including those in Kerry's long hijack) upon which you're telling me I have erred, where I might have accepted your points without question before.
But again, maybe it's time I sit out of this for a while, because it's becoming antiproductive.
We are all noticing that you are conciously or subconciously trying to tell you son's how they should feel towards their own mother. Parental alienation - pure and simple.
Here is your post that you say is a summary of the message you have been trying convince them of...
Quote:
S8, S5, I have already expressed to you that I disprove of OM as a person being thrust into your lives. You already know pretty much what I think about him. I don't won't to elaborate those points yet again, but I will if you think you need to hear it once more.
Your mother continues to try to involve this person in your lives, which is another thing I greatly disprove of. But while it is very unwise of her to involve you two in what should be her private relationship, it is still her prerogative to do so -- so long as no direct harm comes to either of you as a result.
Given that this puts me and your mother at an empasse, I think it best that you and I refrain from ever discussing your mother's boyfriend or their relationship. Unless there is something illegal or otherwise damaging to either of you, I don't need to hear anything about it.
So, S8 -- I am mostly talking to you here -- unless something serious is going on that I really need to know about as your father -- and we can briefly discuss what some of those might be, if you think necessary -- you need to just put Mr. OM completely out of your mind when you are with me. We will not discuss him and you will cease telling me of his exploits. They are totally irrelevant to you and to me. If you do mention him, I will ask you once if it is necessary, and if I deem it is not, we will drop the subject. Got it?
Likewise, if I ever mention him, then you can remind me of the same. There are a ton of other, much nicer things for us to talk about.
And the same should be true for when you are with your mommy -- she doesn't need to know any of the details about the people I associate with as well. As long as they are not a threat to you or your brother, it is likewise none of her business. Right?
Right.
Anyone here that reads that, whether they are a COD or not, is going to swing some dimensional lumber at you.
Go right ahead and attack the messengers, but we will still tell you that you need to take your focus off your XW's relationshp with her children and move forward.
