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Tomato #1879651 11/23/09 06:37 AM
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I posted another phrase on fear on this thread, that goes something like this:

"When you operate in fear, you are not operating in faith." Staying on message was essential for me, and for you K4, it is vital.

You get derailed often and don't seem to listen to the big advice. But I know others read this thread. Your life will improve a lot, when you change from within and learn to be a happier person, with or without your w. No one here can get you there. It's ALL up to you.
To me, the only time you've sounded happy & upbeat in this past year, was when you discussed the new woman. So figure this question out-- Leaving judgements aside, do you believe down deep, that that the only realistic way for you to detach from your w and begin moving on, is to have some other woman in your life?
Right or wrong, I don't see you finding another way to move on-- b/c you have not done so in almost a year here, and your thread gets the number of posts that 4 men do.

You would not be the first person to be unable to detach or move on, without a replacement. Most WAS's have OP in their lives for this very reason; they're Not happily married and yet they don't choose to leave or file for divorce=== until they have OP...Though LBSers will say "the WAS should have filed for divorce first, and THEN dated, not cheated!!..." the reality is that the WASs don't often do that first, (without someone in mind at least). For many LBSers and moving on, it's the same.

When you have an honest answer to this question, ask yourself one other question--are you willing to do what is needed to be a happy man? Answer these and then follow the logical implications. If you choose to date other women, then just be honest with them. If you want to date but you feel it's wrong, then either learn to do what we've said this past year and GAL and detach...or date and GAL, but for God's sake, choose.

You're blocking the whole concept of Detachment, and the only reason I can see for that is that you need some ow in your life b/c otherwise it's just too hard and frightening for you. That's not a judgement, just an observation over the past year. Hence my quote on "fear and faith" above, which I have told you many times but...anyway...

You're on the fence about life, and that's why you have polled so many people about everything, especially dating this "super hot" woman OR using it as a tactic to get your wife jealous OR a way for you to be happier and move on...you ask tons of questions about every choice and want "step by step" advice in how to handle your w, and darn it, you are just sooo confused.
Get off the fence. Make a choice and just live with it. You might be wrong but making no choices or changing the choices you make, is a lot like staying stuck, and it seems to me that being stuck is pretty much going to be the wrong choice. Sure hasn't worked yet, has it? You can't live, or love without risk. Just use your head as much as possible (Not losing your temper) for where the head goes, the heart will follow. Don't keep looking back. Once you learn a lesson from some negative experience or mistake, drop it and leave the past in the past. Create something with your remaining time on earth. You have done too much "waiting for it to happen".

j-


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I posted another phrase on fear on this thread, that goes something like this:

"When you operate in fear, you are not operating in faith." Staying on message was essential for me, and for you K4, it is vital.

You get derailed often and don't seem to listen to the big advice. But I know others read this thread. Your life will improve a lot, when you change from within and learn to be a happier person, with or without your w. No one here can get you there. It's ALL up to you.
To me, the only time you've sounded happy & upbeat in this past year, was when you discussed the new woman. So figure this question out-- Leaving judgements aside, do you believe down deep, that that the only realistic way for you to detach from your w and begin moving on, is to have some other woman in your life?
Right or wrong, I don't see you finding another way to move on-- b/c you have not done so in almost a year here, and your thread gets the number of posts that 4 men do.

You would not be the first person to be unable to detach or move on, without a replacement. Most WAS's have OP in their lives for this very reason; they're Not happily married and yet they don't choose to leave or file for divorce=== until they have OP...Though LBSers will say "the WAS should have filed for divorce first, and THEN dated, not cheated!!..." the reality is that the WASs don't often do that first, (without someone in mind at least). For many LBSers and moving on, it's the same.

When you have an honest answer to this question, ask yourself one other question--are you willing to do what is needed to be a happy man? Answer these and then follow the logical implications. If you choose to date other women, then just be honest with them. If you want to date but you feel it's wrong, then either learn to do what we've said this past year and GAL and detach...or date and GAL, but for God's sake, choose.

You're blocking the whole concept of Detachment, and the only reason I can see for that is that you need some ow in your life b/c otherwise it's just too hard and frightening for you. That's not a judgement, just an observation over the past year. Hence my quote on "fear and faith" above, which I have told you many times but...anyway...

You're on the fence about life, and that's why you have polled so many people about everything, especially dating this "super hot" woman OR using it as a tactic to get your wife jealous OR a way for you to be happier and move on...you ask tons of questions about every choice and want "step by step" advice in how to handle your w, and darn it, you are just sooo confused.
Get off the fence. Make a choice and just live with it. You might be wrong but making no choices or changing the choices you make, is a lot like staying stuck, and it seems to me that being stuck is pretty much going to be the wrong choice. Sure hasn't worked yet, has it? You can't live, or love without risk. Just use your head as much as possible (Not losing your temper) for where the head goes, the heart will follow. Don't keep looking back. Once you learn a lesson from some negative experience or mistake, drop it and leave the past in the past. Create something with your remaining time on earth. You have done too much "waiting for it to happen".

j-




Great post! Really helped me. Kev, I hope it helped you too.


Me: 46 FWS: 36
Married and Divorced 4/07, Pregnant 7/07,False R 7/07
Baby Girl born 3/08
Kicked him out because OW: 7/08
5/10 He realized what he had and lost.
Moved home! REMARRIED 3/14/11!!
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I posted another phrase on fear on this thread, that goes something like this:

"When you operate in fear, you are not operating in faith." Staying on message was essential for me, and for you K4, it is vital.

You get derailed often and don't seem to listen to the big advice. But I know others read this thread. Your life will improve a lot, when you change from within and learn to be a happier person, with or without your w. No one here can get you there. It's ALL up to you.
To me, the only time you've sounded happy & upbeat in this past year, was when you discussed the new woman. So figure this question out-- Leaving judgements aside, do you believe down deep, that that the only realistic way for you to detach from your w and begin moving on, is to have some other woman in your life?
Right or wrong, I don't see you finding another way to move on-- b/c you have not done so in almost a year here, and your thread gets the number of posts that 4 men do.

You would not be the first person to be unable to detach or move on, without a replacement. Most WAS's have OP in their lives for this very reason; they're Not happily married and yet they don't choose to leave or file for divorce=== until they have OP...Though LBSers will say "the WAS should have filed for divorce first, and THEN dated, not cheated!!..." the reality is that the WASs don't often do that first, (without someone in mind at least). For many LBSers and moving on, it's the same.

When you have an honest answer to this question, ask yourself one other question--are you willing to do what is needed to be a happy man? Answer these and then follow the logical implications. If you choose to date other women, then just be honest with them. If you want to date but you feel it's wrong, then either learn to do what we've said this past year and GAL and detach...or date and GAL, but for God's sake, choose.

You're blocking the whole concept of Detachment, and the only reason I can see for that is that you need some ow in your life b/c otherwise it's just too hard and frightening for you. That's not a judgement, just an observation over the past year. Hence my quote on "fear and faith" above, which I have told you many times but...anyway...

You're on the fence about life, and that's why you have polled so many people about everything, especially dating this "super hot" woman OR using it as a tactic to get your wife jealous OR a way for you to be happier and move on...you ask tons of questions about every choice and want "step by step" advice in how to handle your w, and darn it, you are just sooo confused.
Get off the fence. Make a choice and just live with it. You might be wrong but making no choices or changing the choices you make, is a lot like staying stuck, and it seems to me that being stuck is pretty much going to be the wrong choice. Sure hasn't worked yet, has it? You can't live, or love without risk. Just use your head as much as possible (Not losing your temper) for where the head goes, the heart will follow. Don't keep looking back. Once you learn a lesson from some negative experience or mistake, drop it and leave the past in the past. Create something with your remaining time on earth. You have done too much "waiting for it to happen".

j-




whistle whistle whistle

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Quote:
Leaving judgements aside, do you believe down deep, that that the only realistic way for you to detach from your w and begin moving on, is to have some other woman in your life?


It feels that way sometimes. But then when I truly think about it, I am not sure there is another woman out there that can really bring me happiness. I think the only woman that can really make me happy is the one that I married.

Quote:
When you have an honest answer to this question, ask yourself one other question--are you willing to do what is needed to be a happy man?


Willing to? I am trying to accomplish this. But yes, you are right, quite often I live in a state of confusion. I question my own decisions to often. At times it prevents me from making the best and right decisions. At other times it is hard to follow through when I make up my mind and move forward. Questions pop up down the process that make me re-evaluate a decision that was made.

Kevin


Me 36, W 37
M: 08/02/97
D13, D9
1st Bomb 02/08
Reconciled 04/08
2nd Bomb: 09/08
W filed for D 02/04/09
Separated 03/09
D dismissed 06/09/09
Still separated...
K4D #1879800 11/23/09 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: K4D
Quote:
Leaving judgements aside, do you believe down deep, that that the only realistic way for you to detach from your w and begin moving on, is to have some other woman in your life?


It feels that way sometimes. But then when I truly think about it, I am not sure there is another woman out there that can really bring me happiness. I think the only woman that can really make me happy is the one that I married.

Quote:
When you have an honest answer to this question, ask yourself one other question--are you willing to do what is needed to be a happy man?


Willing to? I am trying to accomplish this. But yes, you are right, quite often I live in a state of confusion. I question my own decisions to often. At times it prevents me from making the best and right decisions. At other times it is hard to follow through when I make up my mind and move forward. Questions pop up down the process that make me re-evaluate a decision that was made.

Kevin


There are other women out there that CAN truly bring you happiness! You're not doomed to an unhappy life IF your wife chooses to never come back! Thinking that way is negative, and simply not true. I know what you want...I understand it. But to say that you're not sure if there is another woman out there that can really bring you happiness...that's not being rational, logical, or truthful.


ps - I'm on your side.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
K4D #1879820 11/23/09 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: K4D
Quote:
Leaving judgements aside, do you believe down deep, that that the only realistic way for you to detach from your w and begin moving on, is to have some other woman in your life?


It feels that way sometimes. But then when I truly think about it, I am not sure there is another woman out there that can really bring me happiness. I think the only woman that can really make me happy is the one that I married.



K4D, I think you need to find happiness from within yourself, not from another person (male or female) - just my $.02


Me-44
WAW-42 (ILYBNILWY)
S-16
S-14
M-10/17/1992 T23
Met OM 10/10/08; Bomb 12/27/08; Moved in with OM 01/27/09
Me stronger and happier everyday!
ppenton #1879841 11/23/09 04:58 PM
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I have to agree. If you are waiting for another woman (or your wife for that matter) to "bring" you happiness you are putting a terrible burden on that woman. You have to find your own happiness first. Sure, an intimate R, be it a marriage or other kind of R, can ENHANCE your life and make you happy but first you need to be happy with you or all R's you have in the future will fall victim to your expectations of someone "bringing" you happiness.

At some point you are going to have to make a choice to stop questioning every decision you make. If you make a good decision then learn from it. If you make a bad decision then learn from it. By making no decisions or wavering back and forth and living in a state of confusion you are learning nothing about yourself. We learn from the good decisions we make and we learn (usually more) from the not so good decisions we make. By planting yourself in the middle and not making *any* firm decisions for YOU and YOU alone you are learning nothing at all.

I have shared this with you before but I will share it again. When my anxiety started which eventually manifested into a full blown panic disorder I knew in my heart and logical mind something was not right. I spent hours pacing my apartment each day trying to catch my breath. I made the VERY BAD CHOICE of trying to keep it a secret. In turn, it became so bad I was afraid to leave my house and all that stress complicated my lupus. I was frightened and felt so locked in my own body. I knew I needed help but coping with my anxiety/panic the way I did (which was terribly unhealthy, dangerous to my health and very self destructive) did seem like a good solution at the time in my own deluded mind. I wasn't hiding things as well as I thought and wound up in the hospital. So, I made a bad choice that risked my health all because I was unsure what to do. I learned from it and getting help actually changed my life for the better.

So don't fear making the "bad" or "wrong" choice. If you do, you learn from it and that is how we gain wisdom in life.

You really do have to be okay on your own. My H told me last month he can't talk to his GF about me or how he feels about our separation because he is afraid of her reaction. Funny thing is he used to tell me the same thing. He couldn't talk to me about certain things because he was afraid of my reaction. At first I felt sad for him - how can you be with somebody in a very intimate R for nearly 2 years (his GF) and not be able to talk to her about such important things? The same patterns are repeating for him but only *he* can change that.

Make moves for YOU and YOU only.

CityGirl #1879868 11/23/09 05:21 PM
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Your wife is the only one that can make you happy? Are you happy now? How happy has that wife really made you? My guess would be not that happy. She has put you thru heck.

I used to mix up lonliness and happiness with my exh. I think I wanted him back to cure the lonliness and not have to face the uncertainty of the future. The familiarity was much easier.


Me: 46 FWS: 36
Married and Divorced 4/07, Pregnant 7/07,False R 7/07
Baby Girl born 3/08
Kicked him out because OW: 7/08
5/10 He realized what he had and lost.
Moved home! REMARRIED 3/14/11!!
ppenton #1879875 11/23/09 05:27 PM
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@K4D: when I truly think about it, I am not sure there is another woman out there that can really bring me happiness. I think the only woman that can really make me happy is the one that I married.

K4D: I haven't posted to your thread before, because you're getting a container ship's worth of input from people infinitely smarter than I, and because there has been a fair amount of faith-centered musing by and to you, and on questions of faith I am the Least-Qualified Man Standing.

This statement of yours, however, simply screams self-loathing and an obstinate refusal to be honest with yourself. Let's look at it backwards and forwards.

Think about how utterly random, how spectacularly unlikely, your coupling was. "Just one person" -- on a planet of 6.7 billion people, that would be pretty unlikely, don't you think? Why assume, for example, that The One is in your city or state or even country? What if that The One you're "supposed" to be with in the karmic sense of the term is in Bangladesh or Belgium or Belarus? If it were the case that there's only The One, it must be case that hundreds of millions of people are married to the wrong person.

So that randomness of event would certainly seem to suggest an equal probability of a similarly random event -- "falling in love" -- with someone else, whether you believe it or not; after all, there was a Day Before you met and fell in love with Mrs. K4D. Did you have no happiness before that moment?

Take me -- I met WAW in September 1987. She was new in the city, new in the office, and supposed to get a departmental orientation from a colleague of mine. He missed his bus and was late. Rather than have her sitting around gaping at people, I volunteered to do the orientation. A week later we dated; a week after that we steamed up the windows of her car; a week after that we "did it;" a week after that we were a couple -- and were, until February 2009. That's a Chaos Theoretician's dream string. How many variables could have taken a different value and rendered the entire Saga of Smiley's Person one of an infinity of Stories Not Told?

Some might say -- indeed, Tennis Partner and Good Christian Man Friend IRL has done so -- that this is evidence of God's Plan for me. No such sequence could possibly have been random, says GCMF. Angels on the head of a pin, etc.

Now I'm a Man of Strict Godlessness (a hell-bound status for which GCMF is remarkably tolerant, bless him) so the argument from Christly authority doesn't do much for me, but I'm perfectly willing to entertain it as a theoretical possibility. And when one does so, one reaches the inescapable conclusion that you, Mr. K4D, are wrong.

Let's say that the seemingly random meeting of K4D and Mrs., (or of me and Ex), was in fact God's Plan, and so in that sense you have happiness not simply because you are fulfilling God's Plan but because it is Mrs. K4D specifically that is enabling that Fulfilling Of.

My understanding of the whole "God's Plan" thing is that we fallible, finite humans can't comprehend it. One can believe in it, as a matter of faith, and in that sense "understand" that there is a plan and trust in God that the events of one's life are proceeding according to plan, but the details themselves? No -- mysterious ways and all that -- Isaiah 55:8-9, yes?

So, I ask GCMF at the precise moment he is about to unleash one of his killer alley serves, if it is possible that my seemingly random meeting with the then-future-ex-Mrs. SP is evidence of my life proceeding according to Plan, then isn't it also possible that it continues to proceed according to Plan, now that she's left me?

No, certainly not, divorce being an abomination, per Corinthians, Deuteronomy, Malachi, and the lot, says GCMF, busting out his New International.

But it's also the case, I say to GCMF, that you tell me your God will give me no burden I cannot carry. If that's true, doesn't that mean that I can carry this burden which must mean, in some sense, that I will prevail over it? And what does it mean to carry unhappiness and prevail if not to stop being unhappy? And since your God wants me to be happy, wouldn't that logically imply that, having been happy once -- according to Plan -- I will be so again?

(And what of happiness? Doesn't this chap Gary Thomas promote the notion that the Christian God doesn't even want you to be happy in marriage? This I personally find preposterous, but perhaps you don't....)

At this point GCMF shuts me up by running my sorry butt from one side of the court to the other, from baseline to net and back again, before smiting me a mighty Roger Federer-like blow, and I stop jabbering long enough to wheeze my way out of a looming heart-attack.

So to you, K4D, I pose the following proposition: Isn't it at least within the realm of possibility that you could be as happy -- or even more happy -- with another woman? That, in fact, there is a silver lining in your dark cloud, as there is in all of our dark clouds? And that by refusing to acknowledge this -- as willful an act of refusal and self-abnegation as one is likely to encounter hereabouts -- you're simply perpetuating your own misery because you want to perpetuate it, because you take Pride in your denial of possibility? That this sadness is, in some sense, a monstrous demonstration of Ego, of Self, of Hubris? And so by denying the possibility of happiness-after, you're thumbing your nose at what might be The Plan?

And even if you don't want to go all the way down that metaphysical road, isn't possible that by indulging your sadness to the point of self-denial of hope that you're really just showing off? I will never be happy, so there! Believe me, dude -- I was there.

News flash -- WAW doesn't care. She's gone, Jack! So who are you demonstrating this for? If it's your God, presumably He knows you're unhappy; if it's you, then you're really just engaging in a massive act of emotional masturbation, spilling the Tears of Onan if you will.

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Quote:
News flash -- WAW doesn't care. She's gone, Jack! So who are you demonstrating this for? If it's your God, presumably He knows you're unhappy; if it's you, then you're really just engaging in a massive act of emotional masturbation, spilling the Tears of Onan if you will.


YES.



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