Want to note the positive "baby steps" so I don't lose sight of them.
Went to MIL's for Hannukah with H and S. Mix up early on about the time we were supposed to leave. Would have usually been a fight, me feeling blown off by H when he was late, H feeling whatever - controlling? manipulated? whatever his negative reactions are. Instead, I stayed cool and non blaming and when I realized he and his mom had not clarified the time, I stayed out of it and remained flexible and non blaming. H got going as fast as he could and even apologized for the mix up!
I stayed upbeat and bubbly in the 45 min. car ride over - we had positive, fun, friendly talks. H even touched my knee at one point. I blew it and touched him on his back at another point - oh well. Big difference from the fights over the last holiday, Thanksgiving.
Had a good visit with MIL. On the way home, H got upset when I said I didn't know where some insurance papers were, but he verbalized that this worries him and causes him extra stress, instead of attacking. I said I understood, apologized, and remained reassuring instead of reactive like I normally would. I would normally feel attacked - he gets abusive when anxious. I didn't take the bait, just said I'd find it - and I did promptly as soon as we got home.
H started with "never mind" and shutting down when he was talking about what to do about a gas leak in "his" apt, and I gave some answers that were annoying to him. Obviously anything to do with his apt. is anxiety producing for me, and when he shuts down is my big button. But I just stopped talking, thought about it, gave him my answer and dropped it. No fight.
When we got home, H offered to read S stories then said he had to go. I said fine. H also offered to fix tv which had stopped working last night. He started getting aggressive and verbally abusive around - I couldn't tell what. He wanted me to do something about the tv? Not distract S when listening to stories? Usually, I would feel that he is demanding something of me and that I need to do something to fix it but I don't understand what he wants or why he's mad. I put my hands up as if to say "stop", and he got mad about that gesture....I just walked away.
I imagined an imaginary boundary - literally an imaginary wall between us. I proceeded to get on with my night behind the "wall" and ignore the tantrum going on on the other side of the "wall." This is counterintuitive, but it worked. when S was done with stories, I just continued to get him ready for bed and closed the bedroom door. H apologized again - twice in one day??? - for "being fiesty" because he was stressed out that it was late and he still had things to do. I just said I understood and he should go take care of his stuff and said a pleasant good bye.
We are meeting for the second MC tomorrow and I am scared of what to bring up. Don't want to push for "better behavior" or "what will it take to reconcile" but I don't want to let H steer the discussion either as he might go off on abusive tangents.
Anyhow, I think today was full of positive baby steps. Even thought I dream of him begging to return home, I need to remember that these baby steps will hopefully lead somewhere. And if they only lead to D, I have done the best I can.
AD's anti-depressant medication. But, if I understand it, depending on what kind of depression one is having...helps the doctor to know which kind of medication to put you on. So, that is why you need to explain the panick feelings.
I need to catch up on your thread, but I would think your H and the M problems cause depression by itself. Feeling that he is going to go off on you in a fit of anger, or just being upset with you, may bring on panick attacks.
If you can reach the place that you show him his being upset or frustrated at you for losing papers (or whatever the next thing might be) does not affect you.....I think he'll learn that action doesn't work any more.
Him discussing anything that has to do with his appartment is disrespectfult to you and I think if it were me, I would tell him that I would not discuss those subjects that were disrespectufl to me or our family or M. If you aren't confined to a car the next time....you can say that and then walk away from him.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi - I like your thinking re: not discussing his apt. For the seven months he's been gone, we've spoken very little about it, and he comes here to be with S5, but he is starting to push for more openness about it and wants to start taking S to his place. I'm against all of it. We just started MC last week - finally - and I want to work on how/if we can reconsile, not how to make this separation easier on him - which is of course what he wants to talk about in therapy - more openness about facing the separation.
ugh.
Yes, I am on an Ad, and it helps with general social anxiety. I'm going to make a DR. app. this week and talk about if this is right for me as it doesn't help at all with the panic attack.
And if you read any of my thread you will see that H's verbal abuse has been my main issue since H left - before that it was both of us, lots of issues, but the main one has become me being totally on edge when he is to be around b/c I fear being attacked and blown up at - which is usually the case. Lately, I feel H has started to also blow up at S in the guise of "discipline" so H does not want to face that. He thinks he's just parenting but I feel he does it in a way that is that is too intense and is venting his personal frustrations.
I don' tknow how to get H to see any of this. He does not admit it and of course in his mind, when I get upset at his attacks, or react, I am the one that is crazy or getting too irrational or angry - I'm to blame in his mind. So YOU ARE RIGHT = I'm working on not letting it upset me - a huge task, but yesterday I did it fairly well.
I've been working with an IC for the entire time since H left on how to stand up to him with little success. The main one is to walk away immediately.
So the panic attacks are definitely associated with that.
Went to second MC. H says he doesn't trust me when I say I'll change. Typical, right? He pulls out that I said a really hurtful joke last week and showed no sign of backpedelling or remorse. I told him I was up half the night feeling awful about it. H says he doesn't believe me b/c I didn't show it. I said I could show him my journal entries - he said he "doesn't care." UGH> So I make all these changes, and this one thing "proves" I'm not caring about changing? Yes, they are watching. (With a vengance!)
Also told me his friend saw my profile on a dating website. I did try to move on with my life this summer when H was not interested in MC, had moved out, refused to talk to me. At that point he wasn't talking D, so I shouldn't have given up. This was pre-DB. So I told him exactly that. The MC is my IC too and he confirmed that I told him about this over the summer - it was only for a couple of weeks. I also said that I took it for granted that my H hadn't completely given up and I should have respected that more and not tried to date. Again, H said he is confused at best and doesn't believe me basically. However, at the end of the session, he admitted he has seen some changes (and he just doesn't know if it's enough). He also admitted that when he says global statements like "it shows you don't care and aren't changing" it is hurtful to me and that it's part of his pessimism. WOW>
Rebuilding trust may take a lifetime. At least we are talking now! He never told me this - but it makes sense that it was the time my H started talking D.
He also saw my divorcebusting following on twitter. Somehow this is a bad thing??? Anyhow, all removed.
How to show H that changes will stick....advice people?
And, I brought up that he has also said insensitive "jokes" he has not apologized for. Jabs. I told him we were both guilty of it. Then I listened and validated and said I understand how he would feel I just didn't care at all if I didn't apologize at the time for my hurtful joke.
What was he doing on a dating web site so come across your listing?
No he said "a friend" saw my profile. Still, mortifying, definitely didn't help my case as a trustworthy person. Oh well, nothing came of that site and it was actually a horrible experience! I didn't try it for long - too weird. It was actually after that experience this summer that I decided to fight for my marriage. I wasn't sure either up until then. When H left, I thought, well heck I haven't been happy either maybe there's something/someone better out there. It was basically a defense mechanism over feeling hurt and dumped. I realized it was a fantasy and so I got serious about my changes and my marriage.
That is when I stopped doing theatre, signed up for support groups, started DBing. Sadly, that is when H started talking D. My life sucks. My timing sucks.
Maybe H got off the fence when he heard about it. All along I had been begging him to come back - but I did the dating thing as a back up because I was feeling so lonely and dumped. Still, if I had wanted him back, I should have showed my fidelity. I think he felt like a shmuck and like I was lying to him about wanting reconsiliation so he took matters in his own hands and threatened D. Now he is filing legal sep., but we are starting MC. It's been a crappy eight months!
Trying not to get my hopes up but just got an out of the blue call from H - never happens. Says he's going by costco/target and asked if I needed anything. WOW. Now on the one side, it's holiday time and he asked about presents for S. But he also offered to get anything for the house if I needed it.
Trying not to get my hopes up but just got an out of the blue call from H - never happens. Says he's going by costco/target and asked if I needed anything. WOW. Now on the one side, it's holiday time and he asked about presents for S. But he also offered to get anything for the house if I needed it.
That is huge.
Of course the bummer at the end - oh, and did i ever send you the court documents?
I don't think I do very well trying to offer suggestions to women who have a H like yours. Maybe it's my personality, IDK, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I was never subject to anything like that so I don't really know how to understand it. When I try to give advice, it just comes out sounding mean & cold hearted.....
My sister was M to a man who was a bully and I would get so angry at her b/c she allowed him to treat her the way she did. She would leave and then go back....back & forth and I just didn't understand why she wanted to go back to him.
Just please be careful and take care of yourself b/c I don't think anyone should have to "settle" for this kind of treatment. There are some good men out there, and you deserve better.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
