my W doesn't regret her affair

[futureunknown]

I decided to go with very simple. I sent this:


W-

I've decided I want to get the separation agreement done. This year if at all possible. I'll scrape up the money for my half of the cost, and if you can't afford your half right now, I'll cover that too and you can pay me back.

I'll send a note to the mediator to find a time that works for all of us.

H


I followed it up with a message to the mediator cc'd to my W asking for an appointment to finish up our agreement.

Then I followed that up with another message to my W indicating I would be taking the kids on my own for Thanksgiving, and she could pick them up Friday morning.

Sure enough, within a half hour of sending the messages, my cell phone rang. I didn't answer it. She left a message. She had her hurt puppy act going, like I just kicked her while she was down. She asked "Why do you all of a sudden want to get this done before the end of the year? I have no emotional energy left to deal with this. The earliest I'll can possibly do mediation is January. We can talk if you want to. Give me a call." I didn't call.

Later in the evening I needed to ask her when our youngest daughter's gymnastics class is in the morning, so I sent her a text simply asking when the class was. She ignored my request. So now in the morning I'll have to call the gymnastics school and ask them when my own daughter's class is so I can go watch her.

Is this going to get ugly now? Any ideas on what I should expect?

[Gnosis]

Sure enough, within a half hour of sending the messages, my cell phone rang. I didn't answer it. She left a message.

Good job.

She had her hurt puppy act going, like I just kicked her while she was down. She asked "Why do you all of a sudden want to get this done before the end of the year?

Emotional blackmail. Purpose: To guilt you into backing down and step back in line with her program.
Your attitude: "Sorry honey it don't work like that. You can't string me along anymore. I want out and I want it NOW." NOTE: Nothing about your feelings, you hear me? A MAN talks about what he wants. Now is NOT the time to be a sensitive, touchy-feely wimp.

I have no emotional energy left to deal with this. The earliest I'll can possibly do mediation is January.

Now you KNOW what her plan was all along. To have a nice "holiday" period while you were living in limbo.
When you talk about it again you tell her, "I want this done ASAP, I have no emotional energy left to wait until January." CREATE the CRISIS. Don't just give up, keep pushing her for a date before January. You WANT to create as much emotional strain on her as possible. If she's going to wake up, this is the only way.

"We can talk if you want to. Give me a call." I didn't call.

Good. Hold the line here.

Now is the time for you to initiate contact. Make sure the times you initiate are the most inconvenient for her. i.e at work, just before she goes to sleep. Keep up the pace. Calls, emails, texts... the whole nine yards. Make sure her mind is focused on you, consumed on thoughts by you.

It's your turn to play the role of WAS now. Pick up the script and act it out.

RULES OF THUMB: "I am done." You WILL NOT guilt her. You DO NOT share your feelings with her. You are always happy and upbeat. When she calls (and it's convenient for you) you answer, "Hi" with a cheery voice. When you hear her you drop the happy tone down a notch. "Oh, it's you." If the call is about the kids, deal with it. If the call is about R talk you say, "I don't want to talk about that. The only thing I'm interested in is the date of the mediator meeting. Have you got it yet?" ... If no then "Then we don't have anything to talk about. Bye." ... If yes then, "Great! I'm looking forward to it. See you there."

She ignored my request.

WAW speak: You hurt me so I don't need to tell you anything.

Is this going to get ugly now? Any ideas on what I should expect?

This will only get ugly if you allow it to. Don't react to anything she says or does. Keep pushing for the mediation. By sending the message you are done, she'll be thinking about YOU and the kids. Create the crisis to keep things focused on you and not the OM and her fantasy.

Expect her to tell you, "I was thinking of coming back, but now I see that I did the right thing. You'll never change. I knew that you were a cold-hearted SOB. You've lost me now... blah blah blah... Anything to hurt you and pull you back in line with her program. All she will be spewing is WAW BS.

You should welcome the ugly. Ugly is the NEW good. Don't forget to keep up the phone tag. If she calls and leaves a message. You WAIT. This keeps her attention on YOU and not anywhere else. i.e. Did he get my message, what is he thinking, how is he going to respond. Remember that feeling? I'm sure you do. Leave her hanging. The longer she hangs the better your odds.

Play scenarios in your head. You know better than us what your buttons are that she likes to push. Expect them... Be [b]Cool, Calm, Collected and Confident[b] when you respond. Enforce your personal boundaries. e.g. "W, when you talk like that it reminds me of our daughter when we take away her toys. It's unattractive. Please calm down and talk like an adult because if you cannot I will hangup."

Assertive, strong, confident, in-control, take charge, leader -- attractive traits a woman looks for that create respect.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Expect her to tell you, "I was thinking of coming back, but now I see that I did the right thing. You'll never change. I knew that you were a cold-hearted SOB. You've lost me now... blah blah blah...

Oh, COUNT on it. 100%.

Puppy

[BeingMe]

I agree with Gnosis, 100%. And, roaring crowd cheers to you Future --- you went with what was right for you, and it seems to be working. How pathetic that she had no thought to your emotions when she started the A. I bet it was somewhat inconvenient to you too.

Cheating spouses sure irritate me hugely. My H whined about so much, and tried to justify things by putting me down, but who was begging me to take him back, on the floor, when I decided enough was enough, and I showed strength.

Expect whining, complaining, self-centredness (it's all about her and her needs over the various holidays), childishness (such as not letting you know about your child's event) --- she is showing her true colors now. While you were complacent and flexible for her, then all was right in her little world, but now there are cracks showing, like an earthquake.

Good luck! Things are going to shake!

[CityGirl]

I am glad you sent the letter you did. I think it was perfect and I am glad you are handling things as you are.

We are FINALLY legally separated and my H is *still* whining and justifying his affair. He certainly wasn't worried when he was spending 1200-1500 per month on partying with OW and taking trips all over the place for nearly 2 years. But now he is saying he might not be able to afford to live on his own, he might have to get a second job or live with his mom. LOL!

One day I hope to say to him "told you so". Had he just agreed to the legal separation 21 months ago he would not be in the financial crunch he is in now and will be for the next 3 years. But CityGirl was not playing around NOW he says he wasn't thinking and he kicks himself every day for not agreeing to the legal separation almost 2 years ago. But he refused and dragged us through the court system for well over a year. Once he saw how the legal separation could benefit him, well, he was all over it. And I was under no obligation to comply. I did. It worked out just fine for me!

Be strong. You did good. Don't let her whining or "emotional distress" or any other BS she throws your way (and expect a heavy dose of it) get you off track.

[Gnosis]

Another thing you can count on Future. If she's interested she's going to be testing you relentlessly. These little tests comes in various forms so be on the lookout. The reason? To latch you back onto plan B. Hold the line.

Test: You don't love me anymore.
Test: You won't be able to forgive me
Test: Do you still love me?

Standard responses until she can PROVE there is no more OM:

- I'm not sure.
- I'll need to think about that.
- I don't know.

and then add, "I just feel like I don't know you anymore."

Test: You aren't my friend anymore.
Resp: You can't say that. Friends come in many different ways and forms.

Test: Why are you being so mean?
Resp: I'm not being mean. I'm giving you what you asked for.

Test: How could you do this to me?
Resp: Do what?
Her : Blah... blah... blah...
Resp: I'm sorry you feel that way. I just need some space to enjoy my life.

Prep yourself. Memorize The Four C's. If you can, share some of your feelings without guilting her (It's hard, I know...)

For anyone else reading this, don't forget, this is a last resort. The goal is still to get her back... but this time she has to work for it.

[futureunknown]

When I got up, she had left a nice text telling me when my daughter's class was. Then she called and was all cheery asking me to bring my son's basketball shirt with me (his game is after my daughter's class). She asked if I was going to our daughter's class, I said yes, she was upbeat and said "Ok, see you there."

When I got there, she had bought a donut and coffee for me. She had her uber kindly act going, and it's convincing, let me assure you. She knows I melt in response to it. She looked great too.

She didn't say anything about mediation or my request. She did ask about our schedule around Thanksgiving and was agreeable to my requests.

She did say we could get together to talk, tentatively this evening. The thing is, what do I say? The whole point of insisting on getting the separation done was because she didn't respect my boundary of not living in an open marriage. Should I reiterate it as the reason for my insistance on getting the separation done? What if she says she has or will end it with OM? Do I yield then, at least on the separation point? Or do I say "Too late, I'm done, I just want to get this over with."

[Gnosis]

Future, future, future... shaking my head. You're being tested. I told you she would be pushing your buttons!

button: I'll be nice to him and see if he's serious.
button: I'll get him to talk

Let me ask you a question and I want you to think about it seriously... really seriously. Are you happy chewing on whatever leftover bones she throws your way?

She didn't say anything about mediation or my request.

Of course she won't!!!!

She did say we could get together to talk, tentatively this evening. The thing is, what do I say?

Cancel it. You have nothing left to say.

What results have your words gotten you so far? Nothing.
You're being played. Wake up.

I bow down and admit defeat. Good luck future.

[bluerain]

Hi Future! Did you decide to talk to her? I think that if you do, you stay very aloof. Even if everything magically turns around, you arent done DBing!

Even when she wanted to talk and everything before, when you gave in to her requests, it didnt change anything.

[futureunknown]

Tough to find time to post when I've got the kids for the weekend!

I had to leave yesterday morning before any of the responses came in, so I was on my own. I tried to react with a friendly but distant demeanor. As usual, she did manage to disarm me somewhat.

Let me ask you a question and I want you to think about it seriously... really seriously. Are you happy chewing on whatever leftover bones she throws your way?

No. I am finding myself thinking much more about what I want and what I'll be satisfied with in the future. Even as I imagine possible reconciliation with my W, I am keeping in mind that I have other options. On the morning of my marathon, a bunch of my friends, including two women, set their alarms early so they could wake up and send me encouraging text messages before the race. I was nervously getting ready in my hotel room and my phone started going nuts with messages coming in. Really helped calm my nerves and fire me up to have a good race. I noticed one person conspicuously absent from that group, and that fact has stuck with me. However, when I finished the race, I checked my phone, and there was a message from her saying she was hoping my race was going well.

Here's what happened last night. Gnosis, although I understand why you're saying there's nothing to talk about, look back at what Puppy said a while back in response to Steve McQueen. My history with my W requires me to make myself clear. I am hamstrung a bit because I was so moody during my M. If my W sees me acting aloof or distant, it brings up old familiar reactions in her that do me no good. So I did want to talk to her tonight to state why I was insisting on completing the separation.

It didn't take long. We talked on the phone to arrange a time to meet, and ended up just doing it on the phone. She asked "What is it you want to talk about?" I said "When I agreed to delay our separation, I clearly stated what my expectation was." She sounded tired and defeated. She said "OM and I broke off all communication a few days ago, for good." She caught me off guard with her frank declaration. She said "I'm not dating anyone else, I don't want to date anyone else. If you want to date someone, that's up to you." I don't have any money or anything inside to deal with mediation. I'm facing two major holidays without my kids for much of the time. I said "Well, that's part of what was at issue here, what my position was going to be regarding how we handle the holidays." She said "I think we should handle them whatever way is best for the kids, regardless of what's going on between you and me." I said "If our marriage and family are over and done, then I think what would be best is for the kids to start accepting that."

She said "This doesn't change anything between you and me. The problems in our marriage are the same as they were a month ago. We're both a lot healthier now, which is good, but it's not like our marriage has new life or something. We're still separated and living separate lives." I said "Oh I know, absolutely, but this is topic number one. The alternative is ending our marriage and moving on, since I am not going to live under those conditions." She asked if I was going bring the kids to her Mom's place for Thanksgiving, where she will be. I said "I have another option, but I haven't decided yet. Given what we talked about here, I'm willing for us to do Thanksgiving together, so I'll tell your Mom we're coming."

That was about it. Our demeanor turned lighter then, and we joked that it only took about ten minutes to discuss this thing that's been hanging between us for a month. I told her I had to go, I had plans (which I did). She sincerely replied "Have a good time." She sounded so exhausted, I said "You get some sleep ok?"

I don't know how I did. My tone was very calm, but I tried to make it strong and decisive. I didn't talk about my feelings. I simply stated and stuck to my boundary, that unless she broke it off with OM then our M was over, I was moving on, and we wouldn't be doing any more things together as a family.

What I noticed is that her whole position was all about her, her, her. As CityGirl has discussed, it's so telling that they ignore what they've put us through. All she wanted was consideration for what she's going through. She did give me what I wanted, but I wish I had been able to think quicker on my feet and ask "Why?" when she said it was over with OM.

So, do I trust that she's truly ended it with OM? Do I ask her for tranparency? I can just imagine it now. I'll say "W, given how you lied to and deceived me last year, I can't just take you at your word when you say it's over. I'm going to need to be able to verify it on my own if I'm going to stay in this." She'll act annoyed and insulted and say "What do you want?" I'll say "I need all the passwords to your phone accounts and mail accounts, and I need to be able to go through your laptop to see that all messages and contacts are deleted." She'll either throw a fit and say no, in which case I have to enforce my boundary again, or she'll act all defeated and just say "Fine. I don't care any more." No way she'll actually give me consideration and say "I understand, this must have been so hard on you and I'm sorry. Although it makes me uncomfortable, I'm okay with you checking that way." In my dreams.

I'm not really sure where to go with DBing from here. If her A is over, then I guess my strategy has to change, but after all this, I need to pull back and live my life. We'll see how Thanksgiving goes.

What results have your words gotten you so far? Nothing.
You're being played. Wake up.

I bow down and admit defeat. Good luck future.

I know I probably could have got this better in my favor had I held a harder line for the last several months, but I didn't, and here's where I am. I hope you all don't give up on me now!