So, I have been maintaining my 'radio silence' for a couple weeks now. Don't answer WAW's calls. If she leaves a message and it requires a response I call or text her back. If it's just informational I don't need to respond.
It helps me to detach. When we do talk, I keep it short. I try to keep a neutral voice. This is my 180, previously I tried the 'friendly' thing and all it did was allow her to not have to feel like getting divorced was actually hurting anybody. I tried 'angry' also, hoping it would help me deal with my feelings but I really didn't like how it felt. So detached and neutral is working better - for me. I do think it's bothering her but I really don't care.
I've gotten a few 'odd' calls from her (she leaves a message). Yesterday she called to tell me that she got a call from our health insurance company regarding the application she filled out to lower the rate (I pay our health insurance). She had forgotten to check her language of choice (English) so they called her to get that info. Why she had to call me to tell me that was a mystery.
Today though, she called to tell me that D14's counselor wanted her to know that she had finally made a 'breakthrough' and was talking about her anger about this whole situation. WAW thought this was good because D14 would start healing and be able to accept the divorce better. She just doesn't get it.
D14 has been really upbeat when she's around me. Divorce hurts kids though. I wish I could stop this but I can't. All I can do is take care of myself, so I can be there for them.
Today though, she called to tell me that D14's counselor wanted her to know that she had finally made a 'breakthrough' and was talking about her anger about this whole situation. WAW thought this was good because D14 would start healing and be able to accept the divorce better. She just doesn't get it.
To most parents, that would be very good news.
Why do you suppose that isn't the case with you?
And what exactly is it that you think Lorie doesn't get this time?
"Let anyone who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall" 1 Cor. 10:12
Today though, she called to tell me that D14's counselor wanted her to know that she had finally made a 'breakthrough' and was talking about her anger about this whole situation. WAW thought this was good because D14 would start healing and be able to accept the divorce better. She just doesn't get it.
To most parents, that would be very good news.
Why do you suppose that isn't the case with you?
And what exactly is it that you think Lorie doesn't get this time?
"To most parents this would be very good news" is way off base. I don't know how you drew the conclusion that I DON'T think that's good news, but you are wrong. I guess I need to give more details to keep you from judging me as uncaring.
It IS good news that D14 is making emotional progress. I am glad for that and at her counselors request we are setting it up so she can see her counselor twice a week now to help her open up even more. She really likes her counselor a lot.
WAW thinks that the 'good news' is that D14 is making progress towards "accepting the divorce". But that is her selfish view of the situation. In reality D14 is making progress accepting and dealing with her suppressed ANGER towards WAW.
How do I know this? Because yesterday D14 told WAW that she had a dream where D14 KILLED her, and it scared her to think that she would dream that.
What WAW doesn't get, and this is because both D14 and D18 tell me this, is that they have huge resentments against her for what she has done. The affairs, breaking up the family, treating them like girlfriends instead of parenting them and hardly ever listening or accepting their points of view, instead choosing to tell them what to do when she should be listening, or taking their feelings as criticism and getting defensive with her own children.
D18 says she can "take mom in small doses because they fight a lot". I asked her why and she just says "Mom never respects my feelings". D14 yells at her on the phone and shows her no respect, constantly trying to cut her off and hanging up on her. She NEVER does that to me. Ever.
I say nothing negative and do not bad mouth her to them. I listen and validate their feelings as ok without putting her down. I do not ask them about her, they just vent to me sometimes.
They treat me with respect and I treat them the same. The past few weeks my relationship with them both has improved by leaps and bounds. I had a "double header" yesterday where I spent part of the day with D14 and part of the evening with D18. Just talking and being close.
Friday night is usually "Girls night" with WAW and D14, where they have dinner and a movie. Tonight D14 chose to spend it with me. I reminded her that it was girls night and she said that she didn't feel like hanging with her mom.
There is a lot going on right now and I hope this helps you and others see the progress that is happening here. WAW still thinks everything is about 'accepting the divorce'. Both girls have told me they just want it over and accept that it is. Most of the issues today are in their relationships with their mother.
Our relationships are healing because I AM a parent and I AM respectful. I do NOT put myself and my feelings ahead of theirs. Ever.
I was about to reply yesterday evening like Amy did, but now you have cleared it up.
Maybe the counselor will let your STBXW know about D14's anger towards her. It is not up to you to interfere though.
Your job is to just continue to be the stable father in their lives. They will come to their own conclusions about the divorce and relationships to their parents.
I hope that I never witness my kids have negative feelings about their mother. I wont fuel the fire, but I also dont plan to try to repair any problems between themselves and their mother (or step dad).
Maybe the counselor will let your STBXW know about D14's anger towards her. It is not up to you to interfere though.
Your job is to just continue to be the stable father in their lives. They will come to their own conclusions about the divorce and relationships to their parents.
I hope that I never witness my kids have negative feelings about their mother. I wont fuel the fire, but I also dont plan to try to repair any problems between themselves and their mother (or step dad).
The counselor doesn't tell us what they talk about. It's a trust thing for D14.
I appreciate your support. It is my role to be the stable one. It's a role I take seriously.
Start truly taking the advice you mete out to others, which is often very good, and DETACH. You say you are, or that you've changed but it's like I said before...I have heard it all before --from you...and you are not really changing much of the attitudes or behaviors as far as I can tell.I mean it's great you are not drinking and losing your temper as much. But you have NOT actually detached.
You have the score card out a lot lately. You may not realize it but you list every "odd" call or text that stbxw makes to you, implying or stating outright that she's weird or crazy. First off, you do not know. Second, to me, the calls seem as if she's being polite. For instance, recently I thanked an old HS bf for teaching me to drive a stick shift. Yes, out of the blue, (Why? b/c I had just bought a car with one actually but as far as HE knows, it's out of the blue. I don't want to go marry the old bf, or have an A nor do I feel guilty about anything But I just never thanked him for that and a few other acts of kindness that I recalled over the years including some from his family.)
The health insurance issue is another non-issue to me still...I mean you know you will have to legally pay it anyhow when you are divorced so why mention that you are paying it now, repeatedly? You also do that with other financial matters....We get it Frank, you earn more, so you'll pay more...it was a long term M...that's how it is here. I know you aren't trying to sound like a hero but by constantly mentioning what you pay for, it's a bit unbecoming and I hope to God you don't do that in front of the d's b/c it has the effect of looking cheap, rather than the desired effect of looking generous. Especially since the reality is that these are MOSTLY things you'll be paying anyhow, for a short while as d18 becomes fully emancipated if she isn't already.
And her saying she's single on the form, isn't helpful to her for insurance purposes nor was she thinking YOU would read it and then read INTO it...nor could I possibly see it as purposefully fraudulent.... She probably thought saying "married" was dishonest. Are you thinking she's really "defrauding" anyone? As a L, her comment could not have been intended to make money or defraud, as you suggest, BECAUSE it's the opposite. People falsely claim to be married to get insurance in this state, not the other way around. So, you see how much negative energy was wasted on something false? You are inflicting pain on yourself for no reason AND negatively viewing her unfairly at least in this instance. AND You are still blaming her for the divorce though you feign"taking FULL responsibility" for the drinking and gloss over the temper problems, but whenever you "take accountability" you follow it with a smear on her...or mention your unmet needs AGAIN....some of which you never expressed to her by your own admission. She was not a good mind reader Frank....but hey, you are keeping score and you seem to think you are way ahead of her on the "rightness scale" and that's such a progress SLOWER.....it prevents true growth and forgiveness. I don't see any of that in your posts.
Whey you say "she doesn't get it" it's a clear implication to me that you are suggesting she's selfish and lacking as a mother and should feel worse about this divorce...that's why you said "she just doesn't get it" (I really believe that, and you critisize the mothering A LOT) and as for the anger you say your d's feel towards her, it's as if you have forgotten their anger at you.
I recall some very angry times they had with you, even recently with big blow ups, and while it's great you are getting help, I can say as the child of an alcoholic, my dad getting sober was not something "that fixed all the hurt" by a long shot. My mother's failings notwistanding, there was no solution to my dad's drinking that my mom could do anything about and I'm sure my dad thought he was unsupported in his work--it was top secret and she could not help him but to him....she didn't read his mind so he HAD to drink...and after a while she tired of his mood swings and irrational behavior while drunk so yeah, she got bitter and did not forgive well at all. Not until his death bed....so for me, forgiveness was a learned skill since I never saw it growing up.... But this is NOT a contest of who is closer to the girls anyhow.
Until you let the score card go, (mandatory b/c We all use different score cards; they'll NEVER match!!! no matter how much "evidence" you think you have to "prove you are the 'righter' one) believe me, I have been there and done that and learned the hard way that it wasted SO MUCH TIME -and life is short....
SO, lose the score card for real, and stop the commentary about innocuous phone calls or her apparent mistakes on insurance forms. No more "isn't that weird?" It is not nearly as weird as you suggest. I've seen you post that about 25 times and wanted to say this but waited 'til now.
As if she's "rushing you to divorce her as fast as you can??" WTH? This has dragged on a long time, especially for CAL.
And as for what you are paying for...well, I apologize if this offends you, but it's reality--you will be legally obligated to pay it and probably more...so the comments sound like complaints to me. Are they? (I mean, does any man think he pays too little support??)
In your case... it was a long term marriage-- you do share in the responsibility for it's demise....you do make more money and they are your children....soooo what's the mystery? Aren't you the one still in the house? Aren't they in an apartment? Didn't they have to move out and didn't she once move back in to help you with the drinking and depression and "losing it"? Didn't you then impose rules on her as if it was a reconciliation? Isn't their life style the one that has gone down the most?
Hey, Frank, don't freak on me b/c let's remember a judge could wonder these things... So, you MUST detach or at least stop reading into and commenting about everything she does, then I think more progress will be made. You can move faster on this road Frank. You "know" it in your head. And while venting MAY be helpful sometimes it's the opposite. Writing things sometimes gives power to the words that should remain unsaid...just a thought.
Look, You write things to others, but you don't really apply them to yourself as much as you need to, don't you think? Why not do that now so you can really move on and change? My T and then our MC said if we had not made some real progress within 6 meetings, we should try another MC...fwiw.
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
To clarify, D18 lives with me in the house. D14 lives with her mom but comes over here every day. She stays overnight when she wants to.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
So, you MUST detach or at least stop reading into and commenting about everything she does, then I think more progress will be made. You can move faster on this road Frank. You "know" it in your head. And while venting MAY be helpful sometimes it's the opposite. Writing things sometimes gives power to the words that should remain unsaid...just a thought.
Yes, good point. It does give power to the words. That needs to stop
Quote:
Look, You write things to others, but you don't really apply them to yourself as much as you need to, don't you think? Why not do that now so you can really move on and change? My T and then our MC said if we had not made some real progress within 6 meetings, we should try another MC...fwiw.
Thanks for reminding me of this. I'm changing, albeit slowly, but I am changing.
