That still does not help me in trying to decide what to look for in a good woman. Such is the dangers of dating. Maybe I should just clone a female version of myself. Nah! That would be too narcissistic. Plus, she would always know what I was thinking.
Someone you are happy to be around. Someone you look forward to seeing at the end of your day. Someone you can grow old with. Someone who laughs at your jokes and makes you laugh at theirs. Someone you feel young with.
We all have baggage. We all have history. We don't have warning labels.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Sorry I am so late in responding, but it is Bowling night tonight. Thank you for your candor, and understand this is a needed conversation for me, I am not discussing this to get my rocks off or bust your balls. You know me better than that.
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To suggest that I deserved that comment, you simply have no idea of what my marriage was like, what I went through or she went through.
Regardless of what your ex-wife did or didn't do and what happened, you had an affair Jack. You had an affair while you were married and nothing justifies that. Divorce is far to simple for there to ever be justification for that action.
It does not mean that it is something held against you, it simply means you screwed up. Blaming her for your actions, well that just won't fly with me because it is simply the kind of answer I would get from my ex-wife and unacceptable. Your marriage sucked, you wanted out, you did it the wrong way....enough said.
I do not hold judgment over folks that commit adultery, only those who do not acknowledge that it was wrong, regardless of what a dick or bitch they were married to.One of my good friends on this board had an affair on her husband, we discussed it at length and what I heard from her is remorse, acknowledgment that her path took her somewhere she should have never gone, she regretted that choice. Not leaving her husband, that choice.
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I felt that it might somehow make her feel better knowing that my life sucked. I still am sorry for the pain I caused, but I do not regret my decision, and that was made clear.
I cannot remember, was she aware of the affair?
Again, you are one of the good guys on this board Jack.You inspire people and you lead, whether you want to be that guy or not. However you have a lot to offer in the sense that you have played both sides of the game. I get that it sucks to talk about this on here, because of the sentiment towards the unfaithful spouses, but it is a reality and IMO and huge benefit to those who have been through this.
One last thing and then I am out for the night, and don't get pissy with me about it.. I know y'all don't get a lot of sun, but this whole defensive Jack is just not very Pirate like to me. Ok, here goes:
Is the reason you work/worked so hard to make your current marriage work because of the statistical data and your own need to justify the fact that you ended up with the OW? Or is it More because of how your first marriage ended up and feeling like you have learned how to succeed?
Someone you are happy to be around. Someone you look forward to seeing at the end of your day. Someone you can grow old with. Someone who laughs at your jokes and makes you laugh at theirs. Someone you feel young with.
We all have baggage. We all have history. We don't have warning labels.
Yeah, I know all about looking for those requirements. I am just taking it easy enjoying time with the kids and interacting with some ladies online and out in public.
I'd like to get my financial situation a bit better to buy another sailboat so as to get back out into the ocean. Do you do much sea faring around Cook Inlet and the such? Albatross Bank off of Kodiak has kick ass Halibut, bottom fish and salmon fishing. I'm sure a boatswain's mate/pirate like yourself could finagle a way to get out there.
Originally Posted By: Punktmann
KerryK, do you have a current thread? I'd like to bounce some things around w/ you & hear frm u about that w/o hijacking this thread.
I am NOT justifying the affair. Never. I could offer up the most lame excuses for that and it would be like siding a house with tissue paper in the face of a hurricane. Pointless.
I was 100% wrong for the affair. That my wife had an affair with me during my first marriage, well that should have indicated the problems she had in her own head. And something I dwelt on long and hard, seeking the attention of men who should be out of reach to make her self esteem feel better. The OM was my best friend, it is hard to come between two friends...its like a watermark.
Fukc, I wasn't saying you cannot judge me for the affair, hell I'll give you half my rocks on that one. I did not blame her for MY affair, that was all me.
I AM saying it is not up to you to judge me on leaving my marriage. It wasn't the affair, that was over. It was for me, I was done. There is a difference between a WAS and a MLC WAS. I cannot make that clear enough.
Like your friend, I regret the affair, but I do not regret leaving that marriage. I am also willing to bet your friend, also regrets the hurt she caused, and wondered if they could have been done without it. Talk about a pipe dream.
Defensive?
A bit. I had to think about that one. I am not proud of aspects of my past. I could have done things better...or not at all.
Was she aware of the affair?
No. I kept that from her. Why? altruism? Pfftpt, no. Did I want to hurt her? Also no. It is more complicated than that. The truth is a mix of alot of diferent reasons. Who wants to admit to an affair to their spouse? Who delibrately wants to hurt their spouse? Who wants to put everyone invloved through that?
She eventually found out. And that I regret, at the time I didn't care what she thought about me, but I would have kept that from her for her sake. Maybe that is warped thinking, I just do not see how that helped her in anyway.
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Is the reason you work/worked so hard to make your current marriage work because of the statistical data and your own need to justify the fact that you ended up with the OW? Or is it More because of how your first marriage ended up and feeling like you have learned how to succeed?
Pissy?
Actually Ian, I love you like a brother who I don't talk to that often...not many people challenge me, make me think, I actually miss that here. Not many people know that I am as cracked and tranished as they are. : )
These are old scars, that occasionally need to be bled.
Back to your question. Wow...
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Is the reason you work/worked so hard to make your current marriage work because of the statistical data and your own need to justify the fact that you ended up with the OW?
That's two questions. : ) I am answering these as completely as I can. I am aware of the statistical numbers. I didn't stay married to prove them wrong, I don't work so hard on marriage to buck the odds. I like that we have, however. I am proud of that.
Justifying that I ended up with my wife...the OW. I didn't leave my first marriage to be with her. So that is not entirely true. There IS some truth to it...but she was not the reason I got divorced. She was is my life shortly after I left my marriage, but did I fight so hard to stay married in MLC land because it would justify my past decision? No. There IS some truth to it...in this. We fight for the good times what we remember about the spouse the marriage, the relationship. Our past included the affair. And our relationship after the divorce. So that justified my reason to stay married.
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Or is it More because of how your first marriage ended up and feeling like you have learned how to succeed?
I'm living proof that I did not learn how to suceed in marriage after my first one. I learned what I didn't want, I learned what I did want. But I didn't learn HOW to be married.
I learned how to suceed in a marriage after DBing.
There was not one thing that was more of a reason than the others. It was a combination.
To those of you reading this.
You HAVE to understand, I empathize with your walk away spouse. I understand why they did. So when I advise chhanging and it being real? I more than likely wouldn't be here if my first wife did. I more than likely wouldn't be here if she had discovered DBing and done the hard work.
I cannot stand it when a poster only sees their spouses fault for walking away with looking at themselves and seeing a NEED for a change. Yeah your perfect...and you're more than likely going to be divorced.
With a walk away spouse without MLC, I am willing to bet cash money they talked to you about their problems several times, and those issues were ignored or disregarded.
As a LBS of an MLCer, I empathize with the LBS as well. And I will STILL Tell you that you MUST change for yourself.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
That clip is from a pretty good Italian movie called "Zombie" that I watched a while back. I watched another movie called "The Beyond" by the same director last night. It sucked.
There was a doctor that was shooting zombies with a .357 in it. They went down with every head shot, however, body shots did nothing (as we all know). I was screaming at the tv last night whenever the doctor was wasting ammo with the body shots.
That my wife had an affair with me during my first marriage, well that should have indicated the problems she had in her own head. And something I dwelt on long and hard, seeking the attention of men who should be out of reach to make her self esteem feel better. The OM was my best friend, it is hard to come between two friends...its like a watermark.
I truly hope that you feel like that is a past issue and that you are not continuing on with that in the back of your head a lot of the time. Trust is a fundamental foundation for any successful relationship, without it you are like one of those whack a moles at Chuck E Cheese, just waiting to get popped in the head again.
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I AM saying it is not up to you to judge me on leaving my marriage. It wasn't the affair, that was over. It was for me, I was done. There is a difference between a WAS and a MLC WAS. I cannot make that clear enough.
Not once did I judge you for that, I get what was wrong, I know what you did to try and fix it, and I understand why you wanted out. I judged only the mistake you made......
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I am also willing to bet your friend, also regrets the hurt she caused, and wondered if they could have been done without it.
She actually knows it could have been done without that, thats what I admire most about her......
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Was she aware of the affair?
No. I kept that from her. Why? altruism? Pfftpt, no. Did I want to hurt her? Also no. It is more complicated than that. The truth is a mix of alot of diferent reasons. Who wants to admit to an affair to their spouse? Who delibrately wants to hurt their spouse? Who wants to put everyone invloved through that?
She eventually found out. And that I regret, at the time I didn't care what she thought about me, but I would have kept that from her for her sake. Maybe that is warped thinking, I just do not see how that helped her in anyway.
Tough one here, not sure that I buy the not wanting to hurt her, seems to me you chose the wrong time to show concern for her feelings, probably should have happened before your pecker found it's way into a new nest. I am a firm believer that people who have been cheated on deserve the truth, it may hurt initially, but it is honest and that is always right.
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Actually Ian, I love you like a brother who I don't talk to that often...not many people challenge me, make me think, I actually miss that here. Not many people know that I am as cracked and tranished as they are. : )
First things first, tarnished, not tranished
Second, love you to bro, and contrary to the conversation we are having and how people may read it, I have a great deal of respect for you and feel the same about the challenges.
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Not many people know that I am as cracked and tranished as they are.
Maybe you should show them that side more often, it happens to be that I find your best writing comes when you post about that stuff. Just my opinion.....
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I cannot stand it when a poster only sees their spouses fault for walking away with looking at themselves and seeing a NEED for a change. Yeah your perfect...and you're more than likely going to be divorced.
I am going to second this and add on that anyone on this board who believes that they were not at fault in any way for their situation, you are simply wrong.
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Defensive?
A bit. I had to think about that one. I am not proud of aspects of my past. I could have done things better...or not at all.
Each of us has a defensiveness about ourselves. It's part of analyzing life, we want to believe that we are a better person then our spouse so bad that when anything negative comes to light we put our wall up a bit. I think it's natural.
Lastly, thank you again for your candor. I for one believe this is a healthy thread Jack and one that will shed some light for some folks who really need to read some of this stuff to get a grasp on what it is they are dealing with. As tough as it is to talk about this stuff, it is so beneficial to those who are desperately trying to get a grip on why things are happening in their lives.
