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#1861752 - 10/25/09 04:18 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: Eskimo Nell]
rockedworld Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 1256
You're welcome Nell.. thanks for your support too! smile

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#1861759 - 10/25/09 04:54 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: rockedworld]
Eskimo Nell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Totally Isolated
Pleasure RW!
_________________________
WAH 43; W 47
M 16; T 17
Cats 15 & 6
Bomb 27/05/09
ow 28/06/09

"It is only on the darkest night that we see the stars"

Started counselling 17/08/09

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#1861760 - 10/25/09 05:09 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: Eskimo Nell]
Eskimo Nell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Totally Isolated
Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
One great way to balance it, when their LL is AOS and yet you suspect infidelity (or even if they're just walkaway) and you don't want to "pursue":

Do an AOS -- one that's likely to be important to them -- but NOT the one that they told you to do.

In other words, ACT -- don't RE-act.

Be "leading."

Just find something to do, and DO IT. It doesn't even have to be big. Just something that says "I care for you," and that conveys love to her in HER love language.

Also, if they ARE wayward or walkaway, I wouldn't do this more than maybe once or twice per week

Puppy


Well guys, I've just completed a BIG AOS for my WAH. I'm not sure that AOS is his LL but I'm hedging my bets.

H mentioned yesterday that his expenses were late coming in this month and that he was a bit strapped as mortgage day approaches. I've just transferred his share of the mortgage AND the bills to our joint account from my own account and emailed H such:

"Hi H
FYI, I have transferred $xxxx to the joint account, just to take a bit of time pressure off you until you are paid from your expenses (November payment)".

Hopefully, he will value that and not feel that I am shaming or pursuing him by financial means. We briefly discussed it as an option yesterday but he felt that it would be OK. I said that I would not be comfortable if there was any doubt - I don't want us to be overdrawn. He said that it 'should' be fine.

Seeing Puppy's quote made me decide to act. This is a pure hearted gesture before ANYONE calls me on it! I just hope that H sees it that way too but to be honest, I don't think that he would even care. Money has never been a driver for him.

In doing this, I am assured of my mortgage and bills being paid on time and H knows that the pressure is off him. I hope that it doesn't backfire now!

This is the first big thing that I have struck forward with and yet it also says to H, "I still trust you". Yesterday, I foolishly told him that I didn't, so I hope that this makes up for that faux pas and he sees it for what it is. Genuine.
_________________________
WAH 43; W 47
M 16; T 17
Cats 15 & 6
Bomb 27/05/09
ow 28/06/09

"It is only on the darkest night that we see the stars"

Started counselling 17/08/09

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#1861761 - 10/25/09 05:16 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: Eskimo Nell]
Lost Rabbit Offline
Member

Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 1317
Crikey I go to sleep and look what you get up too lol! Clocks gone back here too so got an extra lushus hour.

Lots of wise wise words and comfort here, was quite worried about you. (()) Its great you have managed to turn it from the negative to the positive so quickly and I do think the AOS is really sweet and kind and will melt a little corner of his heart. Im really trying to get H to the quiz with me had planned it saturday morning but no go as he was off. Although it does sadden me that I dont really know what his LL's are!

Will catch up with you later x
_________________________
____________________________

W 47
H 47
M 24
T 30

Once lost but now found and happily married again!

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#1861763 - 10/25/09 05:30 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: Lost Rabbit]
Eskimo Nell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Totally Isolated
Oh yes Rabbit - once I strike, I strike fast and furious!!

Glad that you approve of my AOS .. I shall await with baited breath to see the verdict from H ...! It felt good to be able to do it for him as I have been the one that's been so reliant on him for money since giving up my job last February. He must be feeling some sort of pressure release now that I am self-funding again.

Thanks for being so concerned about me - it's what is done here so VERY well - not to mention in the burrow! I have finished off that bottle of wine this afternoon and nursed my aching muscles. Was thinking about H's comment yesterday in asking me what I had planned for today and perhaps I should turn up the spa temp. I reckon that was a hint which I missed. Still, that won't hurt him! Perhaps it was an 'overlooked' 180 and he's now reeling from my rejection of him??!! Crazier things have been known, I'm sure!!

When is the quiz that you wanted your H to come along to? Next time you see him you could have a little quiz of your own and maybe that's how you find out what his LL is?!!

I forgot that the clocks were going back in the UK. My computer shot itself forward an hour here but as we are not doing the Daylight Savings thing in WA, I had to manually put it back to where it should have been - not before having changed most all of the clocks in my house and then feeling a bit of a cuckoo myself, when I realised!!! Had to turn on the TV in the end for Foxtel to finally confirm what time it was here in Perth. Normally H would have spared me all of that - it was just done.

Getting off soon. Been hanging here a bit too much today, as you can tell from my posts. Back to work tomorrow so catch you in the evening if not before, in the burrow :o)



Edited by Eskimo Nell (10/25/09 05:36 AM)
_________________________
WAH 43; W 47
M 16; T 17
Cats 15 & 6
Bomb 27/05/09
ow 28/06/09

"It is only on the darkest night that we see the stars"

Started counselling 17/08/09

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#1861766 - 10/25/09 05:55 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: Eskimo Nell]
JCJ Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 3323
Loc: London, UK
Geez Nell, I'm not sure where to start here... I could sugar-coat it but that would not be doing you any favours as I see it.

STOP!

I am frustrated because I see what you are doing and it reminds me so much of me before I found DBing and I really do believe that the first months when the spouse leaves are the best time in which to reconcile and you are wasting those by doing things that DO NOT WORK over and over.

Your h came round today/ yesterday to test the waters with you, at his instigation. You are looking to place that small seed of doubt in his mind that he is not doing the right thing by walking away. Honestly, do you think your actions yesterday did that or do you think they reinforced his ideas?

This is the time you need to look at your actions and start doing some 180s. Not just in the pursuing stakes but in being really honest with yourself about your actions in the relationship.

Quote:
I asked him if he missed his home and he said "home ... yes, house no". He went on to say that he felt that I had forced his hand in moving out of our home because my rage was getting worse. I asked him to imagine how he would feel if the bomb had been dropped on him rather than vice versa. He said that he understood but was not prepared to tolerate such.
I am thinking of this in particular. I know that when they are in the midst of an affair they say things to make excuses, however what are the things that may have been small before and he has blown up to justify his leaving. Change those!

Thirdly, you had relationship talks ALL day. Why? You made leading relationship comments all day and you 'tested the waters' constantly. Why? You know that you are not going to like what you hear and that talking about it reinforces their views rather than changes them.

Maybe this rage thing is something to work on with your counsellor?

Lastly, in the 24 hours since he has left you have called him, emailed him and texted him. Now, if he doesn't feel pressure from that then I don't know what.

Quote:
He feels life with ow is a better choice for him and I feel that the water is running out of my tub far too quickly.


(((Nell))) I know that feeling so well. I used to think of to as grains of sand running through my hand. You know the only thing that stopped those grains was active DBing. Getting a control of myself and realising I could carry on letting my feelings rule my actions and lose my h, or I could start using my head. And as soon as I started using my head and doing WHAT WORKS regardless of my feelings was when I started to get a grip again.

I totally believe you can do this. Do some homework, look with clear eyes at what works and what doesn't work. And you also need to look at your pursuing.
_________________________
M- May 2006
D - Aug 2010
Now travelling the world

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#1861767 - 10/25/09 06:05 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: JCJ]
JCJ Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 3323
Loc: London, UK
SD_Foundgirl posted this on your thread back in August. just thought ou might find it useful again. Both these ladies saved their marriages.

Quote:
I'm going to copy a post from Jen_Jam that helped me tremendously when my sitch was fresh. Read and reread it; follow her advice.

---

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 965
Loc: Surrey, UK
OK, also wanted to post what worked for me - most of it will be a rehash of DR, but I thought I'd put it here as a real world example.
JenJam's Top Ten DB Tips:

1. Don't panic. No-one ever made a great decision when in panic. You WILL panic, it's natural, but take NO ACTION when you are in that state. You have to do whatever it takes to calm down before you can tackle ANYTHING.

2. Don't depair. No-one ever got divorced in a week. Divorce, although too easy these days still take time. you DO have time to turn things about.

3. You first step is not to rebuild your R. Of course it's your ultimate aim but it's not going to happen first. Your very first step is to put the seed of doubt in WAS's mind. They have been unhappy and they consider D to be the answer. It's your job to show them that maybe there is an alternative. And I stress show. There is little you can do to talk them out of this beyond sympathising with their unhappiness and saying that IF D will make them happy then you won't stand in their way. If they are receptive to that, you could go further and say something like "we have had many good times together. Please think about this and make sure it really will make you happy. It's a lot to throw away".

4. Once you have said this back off and let them consider it. They need time. Your next step is GAL - no begging, crying or anger AT ALL. Your task is now part 2 of sowing the seeds of doubt about D - SHOWING WAS that things can be different. Now is the time to step back, put aside your ego and all thoughts of how unfair it all is (that just leads to bitterness, which is poison to a M) and REALLY look at yourself and decide if you are worthy of being WAS's spouse. I agree a M breakdown is rarely one sided but at this juncture it's more useful to look at your contribution. Look at yourself. Under a microscope. Decide if you've changed - are you happy with yourself, for you? Make changes. Now is the time for 180's. This stage also takes a long time too.

5. Time, time, time - it really IS on your side. The situation will not resolve as quickly as you hope. Don't compare your situation in terms of time with others'. It's very tempting to say "well, their situation is similar to mine and it took them 6 months so it will take me 6 months". Each situation is unique and needs its own timeframe.

6. Set your goals and decide on your first signs. This part took me a couple of months to really "get". I had to REALLY read chapter 6 of DR from "I'm discouraged" then go and review my goals before I saw any results.

7. Develop a duck's back - water slides off it. Patience + lack of panic = success.

8. Set goals for yourself as well as the R. Decide on what you want to achieve for you alone and reward your success. I know this sounds like step 4 again but it's more a case of making the changes rather than lamenting how awful you are. (I felt awful about myself for some time - bad and guilty. I did me no favours whatsoever, ended up with me feeling resentment. Much better to look forward than back - as Michelle says, look for solutions and take action)

9. Keep in mind that your actions could be frightening to WAS - you are not reacting in the way they wanted. They had this D all mapped out in their head and it's not panning out the way they thought. This has the added benefit that it leads them to think "if this isn't going the way I planned then maybe it isn't right", but it will take them a LONG TIME to come to this conclusion, to let go of their D comfort blanket. You can help them by being consistent with the positive changes. If you revert back to the you they find unacceptable then they feel perfectly justified in continuing with the D.

10. This is going to be tough on you. In the ideal world, couples in crisis would sit down together and negotiate together and accept that change was possible. In reality, you are very unlikely to resolve your problem in this way, almost certianly not in the early stages. You are not giong to have the luxury of a spouse who will listen to you and accept what you say.
You are going to be in extreme pain. You have to find something to soothe this. To have your WAS would work like a shot, but you ain't going to get this in a hurry. Do whatever it takes to comfort yourself - write a diary, see friends, go places, take the kids out if you have them, take exercise - anything. Your aim is to find something which makes you say "well, the rest of my life may be turning to sh*t but at least this part of it's OK". It acts as a time out for you and relieves the stress.

OK - as I said this is what worked for me - if you're reading this then maybe it's different for you. If you're readin this and thinknig your own sitch is impossible think of this - would you give yourself false hope right now? Chances are you wouldn't. So why give yourself false despair? There are layers in a M crisis and you don't get the benefit of seeing them all at once.
_________________________
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married) Sept 07 2005
Seperated Sept and Oct 2005
H moved back Nov 2005, things still bad
May 2006 - found this site
Oct 2006 - H recomitted
April 2007 - I began to feel normal again

---
_________________________
Me: 39
H: 42
H had EA from 2/06-9/06
Bomb 5/06
Piecing since 9/2006
I set clear boundaries and expectations for H: 3/2008
5/2008: Improving
7/2009: Still some boundary crossing, exploring next steps.
_________________________
M- May 2006
D - Aug 2010
Now travelling the world

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#1861775 - 10/25/09 07:18 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: JCJ]
Eskimo Nell Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Totally Isolated
OUCH ....... but thanks JCJ. I know that I have let the weekend run away with me and I know that everything that you are saying is right ... glad that you didn't sugar coat it.

I guess that my driver has been his complete silence and then when he does pop up, I feel that I have to use it to my full advantage - which actually turns out to be my disadvantage. I have tried all the DBing that I can muster, it gets me no-where. Yesterday, I guess that I just felt desperate and seeing ow's hairband in the car really set me off. I've spoken to C about the rage and I do now internalise it but the messages come out ... calmy and cool but with the sting in the tail which I am feeling. H has not seen me raging in a long time.

I did test the waters, you are right. I didn't like what I heard. It's panic that makes me do it. I just want this to all go away and I want my H back. I feel like a spoiled brat saying that as I know everyone else here wants the same thing. I guess that H has never denied me anything in the whole time we have been together and now that he has totally got hold of the reigns, I really don't like the control.

Thank you for reminding me of SDF's words. I am going to read and re-read them. I am also going to go totally nc with H for a few days so that things can settle down. I don't want to go dark on him - that definitely does not work and just serves to anger him.

JCJ - I know that you are right and I treasure the fact that you continue to keep coming back, despite my being such a bad student!

OK - tomorrow is a new week and Nell has a lot of homework ahead of her, right?!!

(((JCJ)))


Edited by Eskimo Nell (10/25/09 07:19 AM)
_________________________
WAH 43; W 47
M 16; T 17
Cats 15 & 6
Bomb 27/05/09
ow 28/06/09

"It is only on the darkest night that we see the stars"

Started counselling 17/08/09

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#1861807 - 10/25/09 10:14 AM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: Eskimo Nell]
Sanderika Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 761
Oh,(((((Nell))))), honey....

Something here I read today bothers me ......

What did you really expect would be H's comments about the wedding band and the dress? You backed him into a corner. His defense was so obvious and strong. Right now he doesn't care about those things, it's all trivia. To the MLC man they are symbols without any meaning at all. He isn't giving them one second of thought. They mean nothing to him.

His biggest problem isn't about a ring or a dress. His biggest problem is the same as yours....what do I want, how do I fix this, do I walk away, can I walk away, help me please.....My guess is he thinks about this a great deal. In fact I know it, my H has admitted it. There are some days he can't think of anything else. Yours is the same....

By you bringing up those in the manner you did, those are fighting words. You were bucking for a fight, as I see it. H gave you words to hurt you because your words hurt him.

You have to figure this out right away. You are into this now 5 months....your H should only be seeing a "new" Nell. You have to get really serious here. Your H is testing the waters...everytime you backslide in his presence you do confirm his choice. Think about it in terms of time as well. You and H are on different time periods. To you 5 months has been a lifetime. To your H 5 months is a bleep in time, he is still seeing the Nell he left, it is like yesterday to him. I know this as true, words from my H again....

I want you to listen to us seriously, I want you to take our advice and really internalize it so that when you are in H's presence you have the tools to get through the visit. Another thing, this has to be permanent. You will not fool your H, he knows you all too well. YOU HAVE TO BE GENUINE AND CHANGED PERMANENTLY.

Nell, think of it as do or die. Think of it as your 1 and only chance to fix this. Tweek your DB techniques. Stop the R talks, unless he instigates them. Stop the pursueing. Stop the rage. Stop picking fights. Stop dredging up past happy times, your H can't hear you right now about that. He can only see the bad.

Your H is searching for his own answers. You can turn this around. You have to change your actions.

I probably sound like a broken record. You need reinforcement.

Everyone here is giving the same advice, words are different. We have been at this something like 16-20 years combined. Look at the experience at your fingertips. Heck, that's as long as you were with H.

I understand that we can only control our own behaviors. Our spouses are of the alien world. Our spouses thoughts and emotions can be changed. If you think about this, seriously, you have so much to still offer H. You have more than anyone. If, your H can be led astray by a trollop with baggage, Nell you CAN get him back with time and patience and consistent positives. Stop the backsliding. Stop losing ground. Stop showing him you haven't learned anything or changed.

I don't hand out 2 x 4's very well. I would love to steer you straight. We all would. Please give this weekend a huge amount of thought. Repair what's broken. You DO know what needs to be fixed.

Sanderika
_________________________
ME48/H48MLC
T 33y
M 28y
S16
OW 8/7/05
Bomb 8/16/05
Sep 9/05
H f'd D 10/3/08
D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09
D dismissed 2/5/10
H served me D papers again 9/4/10
D dismissed 9/26/11

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#1861859 - 10/25/09 01:19 PM Re: UPSIDE DOWN - still struggling, trying to deta [Re: Sanderika]
rockedworld Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 1256
Oh ((((Nell))))
Everything that is being said to you makes so much sense. It is a wake up call for me too as I keep making the same mistakes over and over. I am re-reading the advice given to you by these others and looking at it in my own sitch. I am cheering you on as I brush myself off and start a new day with determination to get back to and stick to DBing if it kills me! lol I know you can do it... do what you need to maintain PMA. I think that must be part of the trick... figure out what helps you maintain a PMA most of the time and do what works for YOU as well as the R.
Don't panic... time is on our side. That will be my mantra for the day.
take care,
Rocked

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