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I don't really know you're situation, but it sounds good to me that you have a counselor and a plan. I think having a plan and sticking to it is important. While I was lurking I saw some people trying different advice everyday -- be nice, be mean, be loving, be demanding,.... I mean what is the spouse supposed to think if they never know what to expect from you?

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Hey Lotus -

Kind of feel like I've been in a holding pattern here. I know, everyone tells me to be patient, and that's good advice.

W has told me clearly that she has not felt loved. My C said today, the only thing that's going to make her have a change of heart is to change this. The whole intmacy thing, opening up to her, address her love languanges.

I've been trying not to pursue, and I've done OK - C said today, not pursuing is about not putting pressure on her. But I tend to agree that I've got to so something to address this underlying issue. Last time I we went though this in 2003, that was what made the difference.

I know you guys are going to warn me on this, and i know I need to be very careful here. I do not want to be reckless. But I think it's time to "experiment and monitor results." I need to be careful to operate from a perspective of strength and confidence vs. being needy.

I know, I need to focus on myself, I haven't put aside anything here.

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I've got to be careful here. My focus needs to continue to be on myself, or else I'm going to fall apart.

I still feel stuck, knowing I've got to find some way to support myself emotionally, still feeling the need for W. Crap, I know I'm stronger than this. Ugh, I can't go on like this.

Well I guess it's time to "comparmentalize" and focus on work.

Well, we're setting up Retro, that's good.

I'm probably sounding like a whiney broken record here.

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Originally Posted By: BillM


W has told me clearly that she has not felt loved. My C said today, the only thing that's going to make her have a change of heart is to change this. The whole intmacy thing, opening up to her, address her love languanges.

From reading your posts the last month or 2, I thought that's what you were doing? It seems like more of the same to me. Have you told your counselor the kind of stuff you've been doing the last couple months?


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Only briefly, we covered a lot of ground. Told her I've been talking to her, talked about the love languanges - she said didn't sound like acts of service, probably more physical touch... Well sheesh, I know W asked for time together a LOT too.

She recommed a book called "Hold Me Tight" - I've got to look it up.

OK I've gotta go - meeting -

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I can't believe it.

She started talking this weekend about going to visit her mother this coming weekend, then changed it to going to see her friend with the newborn again - saying she needed a break. But it looks like she's making plans to see this other guy on Friday.

God, she's breaking her word on this. I must be incredibly naive.

Last time we talked about this, I told her I'd pieced it together, figured it out, and she admitted to "a few dates." She agreed to not do this again.

She's just not my wife anymore. I mean that on multiple levels.

I deserve better than this.

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Well, I'm either misinterpreting, which I don't think I am, or she's now lying to my face - talking about how she's trying to be respectful, all affirmitive about how she's keeping her word. She says that if she were in my shoes, she would be suspicious too. That I don't trust her anymore, and she probably wouldn't either. Then she short of changed tone and said that it's not her job to make me feel OK with everything.

She says she needs these weekends away to get a break, she she can sleep and not feel sick and have headaches.

Says it's hard being around me because it makes her feel anxious.

She she's got a lot of feelings about this Retro weekend that she needs to talk to her friend about (the one she says she's going to see). Apparently this is causing a lot of anxiety for her.

She also said that she's really scared about what this looks like on the other side. That I'm doing so much now, but she shouldn't stay just because I'm washing dishes.

Not sure what else to say. Not optimistic.
I'm really starting to internalize that she's just not my wife. Starting to see her differently.

I actually feel a little more intact right now than I have been. Like I don't need her as much... hopefully I can hold on to that.

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Quote:
She she's got a lot of feelings about this Retro weekend that she needs to talk to her friend about (the one she says she's going to see). Apparently this is causing a lot of anxiety for her.

I don't get that. Why is she putting so much pressure on herself about the Retro weekend? You just go, whatever happens, happens. I mean she has nothing to lose right? I would think you'd be feeling a lot more pressure than she would. I'm not a WAS though, so I can pretty much not understand some of that thinking.


Quote:
That I'm doing so much now, but she shouldn't stay just because I'm washing dishes.
What better reason is there? Guys that do dishes are hot!!! smile

Quote:
Not sure what else to say. Not optimistic.
I'm really starting to internalize that she's just not my wife. Starting to see her differently.
I don't know about that, but if she's having an EA she probably isn't the same. I also think we tend to have rose-colored glasses with our spouses (the LBS at least) and they start slipping as time goes on when our WAS are doing what they are.

Quote:
I actually feel a little more intact right now than I have been. Like I don't need her as much... hopefully I can hold on to that.
I'm so glad to hear that! You really don't need her, and I think it's good and healthy to realize that. I remember when I used to feel that way, and it's actually a good feeling when you realize you'll be fine with or without the WAS.


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For Retro, her comment was, "Look at it from my perspective, feeling the way I do, going to a marriage weekend." She said she needs to think about it, journal about it, figure out what she wants to get out of it. Asked me yesterday, are you sure they're going to put us in different rooms?

I took a cue from C and gave her some attention Monday night, but it doesn't appear that this has had much affect - I need to back way off now.

Looking ay myself in all this, maybe I've had a feeling like, she's just on the other side of a curtain - she's still there, I just need to find a way to draw that curtain between us aside. This wasn't a concious approach, but I realize it's been my perspective. We talk, we share meals, we watch TV together, we go and do things with the kids. She washed and folded all my underwear this weekend.

We somehow are having way too many R conversations.

I said to her yesterday, how are you doing? And she said, we can't use each other as crutches, we've got to stop asking each other stuff like that.

She's starting to say things to me, then says, I can't talk to you about that.

But she also says, we're doing a good job respecting each other's boundaries, etc.

And dammit, I still look forward to seeing her at night, I look forward to when she comes home, etc. As hard as this is, it's the highlight of my day.

So, I realize, she's not on the other side of that curtain. She's gone. I'm living in this house with a ghost of a relationship, not something in critical condition. I've been in the mind of trying to revive it, but that's not it. I'm alone in this. I need to start thinking and being that way.

Is DBing the same as preparing to be single? Getting yourself to cope?

I've almost refused to envision life after divorce because I have not really been willing to accept it. When she's said "I still care," "I like being around you," "There's a part of me that still loves you," all those little hints, I've kept thinking, I've got something to work with, I just need to sweep that curtain aside. But she's also said I don't know how to be around you, it's HARD being around you because I feel anxious, etc. After yesterday's conversation, I think she's increasingly frustrated. This whole think of, I don't trust what your're doing this weekend came down to, It's not her job to make this OK for me. She interpreted it as having to reassure me.

I still haven't gotten out of the habits of husband / wife conversations.

I called her today (haven't done this in quite a while) to remind her that I'm going out tonight, and asked about a Cub Scout activity this weekend. She was tired and cranky, sounds like she's getting sick, so she was pretty quick to say, I don't want to talk about it right now.

So. I feel like things are shifting inside of me. I say that she's not my wife, because I mean that, I've got to break all habits of treating her like my wife. I see that now. There is no game of sweeping back the curtain. All this might be basic stuff guys, but I don't think I've connected with it emotionally.

I've really got to start thinking about the other side of this. What it looks like. Having a different home. Sharing the kids. Having less money. And doing this being just me. She's not invested.

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FYI re: Retro

Somebody on here went and said fully half the couples there were already D'd and others were separated. It's a Communication weekend moreso than a marriage weekend as far as I can tell.

(I haven't been, mind you, just reporting what I've read.)


The trouble with having an open mind is that people put things in it.

My sitch - Divorce Busted!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1804137#Post1804137
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