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Hope,
Please take my advice with a grain of salt and understand, I am not there and your gut instinct is better than my advice. Ok?

But for what it's worth, yes, you need to back bone up too. It's hard, I get that. It took me a little bit to do it myself I was so shocked when this first started and went spinning when I found out about OW.

I did it in increments. The first time was by accident. That was in January when he was sooooo sure this little idiot 23 year old was going to be with him and they were going to ride off into the sunset. He says to me, "I wish you would find someone to take care of you so I don't have to worry about it anymore." I was so shocked and so pissed, I could only laugh. His perception of it was "Eff you" and that turned out to be a good thing. What I did really say was "Be careful what you wish for." His stupid comments really tappered off then, from about 10 a week to about 3 to 5, depending on the week. (Sort of funny to think about it now.)

That was small.

Then in February he pissed me off to no end and this was after his perfect OW went and found herself a younger, richer and taller new boyfriend. I told him, "I'm moving out." He tried to stop me, I held firm. I moved in with a friend, a wonderful friend who took me and S into her home for about 4 months. H was forced to move back into the house. That first weekend after I moved out, he opened up for the first time about specifics as to why he was unhappy, not just "I'm unhappy." I got examples and actual incidents that I remembered but didn't register as important in my eyes, but very important in his. It was a great insightful conversation.

You need to think of ways and places where you want to assert yourself. You cannot run scared. Who was the woman he fell in love with? How would she handle this situation?

I would start with contacting some friends who know the situation, friends you really trust who are not going to start in with the "leave him, why are you dealing with this?" and let them know, any time of day, you may just show up. I have about 4 friends here who I could have done that with and in couple of situations, I did. When he starts in with the yelling and screaming and you can't stop him by being calm, leave. I know you want to stay there. I know you still think you can "talk" to him, but you can't. Not now. But if you do this enough, if you walk out of the house, he'll catch on. "Ok, I yell, she leaves.....end game....stop yelling at her."

I know it's going to be hard for you to do this, but I think that is where you are. And this is what I mean by "end of his rope". He's gone off the deep end and has thrown all logical thinking out of the window. Guilt? Maybe. Guilt because he knows he's in the wrong here. Frustration, stress, etc? Probably mixed in there too. But for whatever the reason, it doesn't matter. Just go. Send a clear message: "I won't be spoken to this way. I am your partner in life and the mother of your child. You do have the power to take away the partner in life status, but you will never take away the fact I am the mother of your child and I will be damned if any man, especially you, speaks to me like this anymore. You've met your quota for yelling at me for a whole life time and then some. No more."

My H used to throw D out there, like it was a threat. "We just need to end this, simply and friendly like." He would email it. He would say it. I put my foot down, face to face. "The next time you say D or you email it, you better be prepared to follow through. I will not be threatened. I am not scared." I did not yell. I whispered. (Something I learned from my therapist) And the fact I was dead serious impacted him. I know this because he hasn't said or emailed it since. I will admit, later on when heads were more cool, I did tell him D is not my preference, but I am going to have a new life. You need to decide if you want to be in it or not. (I wish I could thank him for not saying D since that conversation but I don't know that that's possible without bad feelings brewing. So I leave it alone, but I'm appreciative.)

Any-hoo. Is that long enough for you?

Backbone up. Not all at once like a tidal wave, but in increments.

He will keep doing this to you. And why not? You're letting him. You are at a point where you need to do or die.

Your specific 180 is to stand up for you.


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Ok the walk- away and the back up plan with a girl friend. Great advice. The wispering to show dead seriousness I've been doing that too.

We had our first open conversation about somthing that I did that hurt him too - not just "You hurt me and I won't take it any more" It was a huge milestone. Just last weekend. Perhaps this is backlash.

I've done my 180's in terms of not screaming back, not fighting, staying calm - those are huge steps for me and I hope he sees my changes. Now I see I will have to step it up a notch - for me, not to show him changes. I just will not be around him when he's in that mode. I will learn to protect myself. I will.

BTW I stayed calm last night and showed compassion for his stress instead of fighting. That's when he turned around and appologized. He also was very calm with me today. Baby steps.

If we can get to this place of talking about the actual hurts - the things he and I did that we didn't realize we were doing that hurt each other and got us to this point, I think we'll be getting somewhere. I need him to find that place and as long as I am letting him stay in rage/blame mode, we won't get there.

Love, compassion, and the walkout. These are my tools.

THX STronger as always.


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PS OK, maybe I'm hallucinating here
I just found my wedding ring. It has been missing for over a year, and as you all know my husband has a huge temper so I was terrified to tell him. I ordered another one.

Needless to say, my H found out I bought a new ring and got furious anyhow.

But I just found the original one. I think this is a sign. I lost the ring back when I was the one crying to my friends every night that I was unhappy in my marriage and I was fantasizing about the emotional men in the theatre. It was when my S started school. I started realizing I was so upset about our M. And I lost my ring.

I was rearranging my bedroom for the new me - and lo and behold there it was.

Now I am too scared to tell my H that I found it lest I trigger his anger at lying about buying a new one. But, I am so glad I rediscovered my ring. I hope I can rediscover my M as well.

Today, trying to detach and handle the anxiety that being alone brings. Staying out of his way since he is in anger mode. Trying to love him from afar, and believe we can have a new and better M even with yesterday as such a horrible setback. God this is such a long haul.


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Originally Posted By: Hope4Luv
I can't help but feel like - hey, H moved out, H wants the lawyers - now he comes home and yells at ME for all the extra money this costs? Where is the responsibility for his part in getting us here too. I've been doing well doing my changes, taking responsiblity for my part in our problems, he is the one frankly who is hiding out and continuing the same old pattern of blow ups and blame.

Sigh. I want him home. I don't want all these thousands of dollars taken out of our savings. But this is his choice - so why the hell is he yelling at me? The way things were before, we could afford our lifestyle. This is just crazy. Help!


Personal accountability seems to be an early casualty for these WASs. My W has never accepted ANY accountability for her part in the breakdown of our MR. But when you think about it, it really isn't that surprising, since accepting personal accountability would inevitably lead to feelings of guilt which in turn would take the fun and excitement out of the "fantasy" A.


M: 41
W: 39
S: 11
S: 10
D: 4
1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09
EA began: 2/14/09
EA discovered: 3/1/09
I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself
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This idea of lack of responsibility goes back before OW - H has a habit, as does his whole family I might add - of an attitude of "they are doing this to screw me" "it's everyone else's fault" etc.

Now I am finally taking responsibility for things I should have seen a year ago or more in my own behavior, thoughts, attitudes, emotions. But H not only has WAS syndrome, he has the added stubborness and poor-me-ness of his character.

He came back from therapy today and said that he wants to fire his therapist. I have a feeling his C must have confronted him on his behavior yesterday - H told me C said he has to be able to talk to me about the legal sep issues or else lawyers will do it at a high cost. I have a feeling H was being told keep your cool and that H didn't like that he couldn't blame me?

So I did my 180-- instead of freaking out like I wanted to about him quitting IC (like if he quits then there's never any hope H will see his side of things), I just said, "Yeah, a lot of therapists suck". What can I do. Can't control him.

Wanted to "show H I wasn't going to be treated badly" today by kinda blacking out - but when I came home tonight he was 1) here - and those nights are too few for me to take for granted and 2) he was nice again. Maybe I'm just a sucker. I drink in the pleasant times together. Gives me hope for the future. Maybe I should just close myself off in my room and be mysterious, protect myself in case he decides to go off again. If only I had the strength to make him miss me.

But I am just someone who wants to have good times with him to show him my changes, so H can experience things being different, etc.


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You did nothing wrong....why do I get the sense you feel like you did?

There are many different ways to go about this and that stragety may change day to day.

If he's there and being nice, enjoy the interaction. Only a crazy person wouldn't want to enjoy a nice quiet time with loved ones....so no worries. And yes, that's an opportunity to show him life can be a partnership where things are nice and calm.

You have ZERO idea of what happened between him and the therapist so don't worry about it.


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Im panicking here. Went to IC yesterday and C reminded me I'm building up trust with H that things can and are different with me. I blew that big time today and now I'm off on "I'm going to lose him forever" mode.

Because he appologized and said how stressed out he is (and acknowledged that he has to hold it together better around me and S) I offered to get up with S today. I told him that is something I can do to lighten his load. H like this and seemed to open up to me more last night, softening more, getting closer. Then S got up early and went to H this morning. Because I forgot I had left S window open (it was very hot last night) and I forgot to set alarm to get up with S and keep him quiet.

H was good in that he didn't yell at me. H told me this is exactly his problem with me - I say things and don't follow through. This is his whole argument for having no MC (H can't believe it will be different this time just because I say so) and for the Sep agreement (things won't be different so H has to be prepared).

I have all these things hanging over my head. H said he feels stupid for trusging me again because I can't follow through on my word. It's not about getting up with S. It's th eimplication for whole marriage.

I'm so depressed today and feel like we are back to square one and that H won't trust me again. I feel just awful. I feel scared. I feel mad at myself because I know things will change but I have a small window to prove it and I blew it.

Help!

That said, I also know I should have stood up to H the other day way more. I know I should have hung up the phone once he started yelling. I also blew that one. But that is my own work and is for me, not to get him back.

I know I have to stand up to him more. What I don't know is how to get him to trust me again when the whole thing goes out the window over something. I think I'll go dark this weekend?


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Originally Posted By: Hope4Luv

But that is my own work and is for me, not to get him back.


You don't really believe this and you are not living it.

EVERYTHING you do right now is to please him. EVERYTHING.

You have not done one single thing to make you happy or to make the improvements you want to see in yourself for yourself. EVERYTHING you are doing, you are hoping will impact him, not you.

The more you do this, the more disappointed you will be, the more disappointed you are, the more it will show, the more it shows, the more he reacts in a negative manner to you, the more negative he is, the harder you work to please him, and then it all starts again. It's crazy.

He's going to do whatever he wants. He is not thinking about the impact any of his BS has on you.

RIGHT NOW Hope, please sit down, write down things you want to do for you. I don't care if it's skydiving or volunteering at the animal shelter to taking a cooking class to exercising to doing puzzles at home. Whatever you want. Make a list, RIGHT NOW.

Then, make a list of things you want to improve about yourself. For me, it was my temper. I got a HOT one. And I can be mean and vindictive. H pointed that out to me. And he's right. I've worked on it and I'm no where near where I would like to be with that but I'm working on it. I'm have no patience, not naturally but now I'm better. And I don't care what my H thinks on those fronts, STRONGER is the judge. What do you want to work on you internally? Make that list too and start working on it. Get therapy, get a book, whatever, work on it FOR YOU.

YOU CAN NOT LIVE FOR HIM. It will kill you if you try.

I recently told my H "I am not responsible for you happiness. So if you are around trying to see if Stronger can make you happy, you're going to be disappointed. I want you to know, I'm not even trying to do that." He looked at me sort of confused I guess, which in turn surprised me. I followed up with "Sports can't make you happy, work can't make you happy, S can't make you happy and neither can I. You can enjoy these things but ultimately, YOU make YOU happy. Nothing and no one else."
I further told him "I'm aware that I've done things that have mad you unhappy and I'm sorry about that and I'm working on somethings, but that's for me. If you benefit, great, but you aren't the target here, I am for me."

Then he understood where I was coming from.

Do you understand?


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Originally Posted By: Stronger
You did nothing wrong....why do I get the sense you feel like you did?

I always feel like I do something wrong. If I hadn't I would not have lost him.


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That doesn't answer my need to prove to him I am trustworthy. We have this cycle - he has a temper, I'm afraid so I lie or hide things to avoid his temper, he find out and blows up even more and blames me. I can't control his part in this cycle. But my lying is a coping mechanism from childhood that is wrong. He still needs to see that I am changing my part in it. He has to see the changes.

As for doing stuff for me, that also got m ein this mess. I was doing theatre for the past three years which meant being gone most evenings and weekend. My husband tried to tell me this wasn't working for him and I blew him off becuase I figured, hey, I'm home with a baby all day. I go out when you are off work, not abandoning my job as mother. I need to do this for me.

but I didn't hear his needs. I am taking this time to show him i can be selfless. I can care about his needs. He doesn't believe I do - from his childhood yes. But also from my behavior. Doing a bunch of stuff for me just shows being selfish. I don't know how that can help the marriage.

But I do overdo it on the need to please syndrome. I don't know how to not be hard on myself. That's one thing. I am also working on my temper. That's another. I've given up theatre and don't know what else right now I want to do. It's a void. I guess I love sewing. I love nature. i feel guilty enjoying these things when my H is so stressed out. But you are right I need to find a way not to constantly want to please him. God this is hard.


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