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#1840476 - 09/18/09 11:42 PM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: Stronger]
Butterfly1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1836
Loc: California
You're right, as always, Stronger. It was his crap. The problem is, IT'S ALWAYS HIS CRAP LATELY!

I did stay calm. I'm proud of myself. 180. The old me would have fought with him. I did feel like I was sitting at dinner with two children having tantrums (S4 actually was). H yells at dinner how stressed out he is, how work is not going well, he didn't get to go to the gymn, how Friday night dinner is a "waste" b/c S4 has tantrums each time and so how can it be important. H has a standing Friday night game (he's a typical nerd - does role playing games) so he is always in a hurry. H threatened to call off Friday night dinners.

I did my 180 and said I'd be happy to talk about it sometime when we were calm and look at the options. With H gone, I feel more than ever these dinners are important for structure - even if S4 is fighting it for now. If we keep it up, S will come around. But H doesn't want to hear it.

I did my listening and validating - pretended I was a "friend" or "third party" by acknowledging that he's stressed on Fridays, it was a hard day, and coming for dinner is hard when it seems to not be "working" for S to provide structure. I did it, people. 180! By the end of dinner, everyone was a tad calmer.

The problem I have is him getting his way all the time. I know I have to validate, hear his needs, empathize, not fight, etc. But he's still just yelling and inconsiderate. I feel awful inside. This is exactly what caused me to be miserable in my marriage in the first place before the bomb. There's little acknowledgement of my needs and feelings and this is really trying my patience. I know I have to be patient, light, positive, go on with my life anyhow, but I'm miserable.

Tomorrow - Saturday. H was going to take S4 flying (he's a pilot) and I was not invited. Said he needed time to himself. He has been working late nights and his car is broken etc etc it's the same story every day. He's stressed out and I'm being empathetic, not asking for anything. I though H was going to return with S tomorrow afternoon and spend the day with us, but he said he wanted to go to the gymn. I asked if he would be here for dinner. He said he didn't know, may go out, may need time to himself.

At first I did a no-no, I said, "you're just going to take off?" out of surprise b/c I thought the plan was to return. He got upset (presumably b/c he feels I was controlling, and that I wasn't being empathetic at how stressed he is and how he needs a break. Under it all, he feels I used to go out 4-5 nights per week to rehearse or do plays, and H feels it's "his turn."

So I'm doing what I'm supposed to do - I backed off and said, "I understand, you should take some time to yourself. You need to relax." I tried this as a 180 - and to validate.

If I'm doing everything right, why does it feel so awful? Why do I feel so lonely? Why do I feel this is going nowhere?

I'm considering throwing in the towel, folks. This is so painful. H gets to come and go as he pleases, yell as he pleases, and I get to sit and validate and not be heard. Maybe I should just fight for a D and get the best I can and move on.

Needing some inspiration here people, I don't really want to give up, it just feels so hopeless tonight. Needing a little coaching.


Edited by Hope4Luv (09/18/09 11:47 PM)
_________________________
Me: 42
Him: 43

Two divorcees in a relationship

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#1840483 - 09/18/09 11:55 PM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: BigJohn]
Butterfly1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1836
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Alternately, a Type B (passive) man would likely feel uncomfortable and maybe even intimidated by a woman who exhibited that type of behavior.



Another advantage you have with your H is that unlike a woman, your H will likely be responsive on some level to considerations beyond just his feelings. (No offense meant here!)

Hang in there!


Will check out the book! Thanks! I'm not sure which kind of guy my H is. On the one hand, he is your typical computer nerd - always at the computer, insecure with women, plays D&D, etc. On the other hand, you all know how he yells and bullies and can be quite aggressive. He gets things done in the work sphere that way, too.

As for me, I'm the opposite. I look really outgoing and confident on the outside - I'm an actress, I talk a lot, I have firm beliefs that I stick to. But inside, I'm so sensitive and insecure, that nobody would believe it. People always comment on how confindent I seem - but I never feel that way. H appears shy but is quite stubborn about who he is and how he would like things to be.

Please clarify "considerations beyond just his feelings?" I don't know what you are referring to.
_________________________
Me: 42
Him: 43

Two divorcees in a relationship

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#1840528 - 09/19/09 03:08 AM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: Butterfly1]
BigJohn Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 444
Originally Posted By: Hope4Luv
Please clarify "considerations beyond just his feelings?" I don't know what you are referring to.


Hope,

What I meant here is that with men, it's not all 100% about "feelings" like is often the case with women. There is at least potential for reasoning and rational dialogue with your H. Understandably (given my own sitch), I think that this factor could be a real advantage for you in yours.
_________________________
M: 41
W: 39
S: 11
S: 10
D: 4
1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09
EA began: 2/14/09
EA discovered: 3/1/09
I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself
_______________________________

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#1840531 - 09/19/09 03:19 AM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: BigJohn]
Butterfly1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1836
Loc: California
Yes, BJ, he is all rational and reason. And I mostly feelings. And tonight, I just feel done. I'm tired and want to give up.

Help me understand this re: your sitch, perhaps I'll get inspiration. Thanks buddy.
_________________________
Me: 42
Him: 43

Two divorcees in a relationship

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#1840569 - 09/19/09 09:19 AM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: Butterfly1]
RedSoxFan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 573
Originally Posted By: Hope4Luv
I'm considering throwing in the towel, folks. This is so painful. H gets to come and go as he pleases, yell as he pleases, and I get to sit and validate and not be heard. Maybe I should just fight for a D and get the best I can and move on.

Needing some inspiration here people, I don't really want to give up, it just feels so hopeless tonight. Needing a little coaching.

Hope, there are a whole bunch of reasons why what you're doing now will pay huge dividends long-term and near-term. I can remember times being so stressed out with one of my toddlers having fits and tantrums. More and more stress builds as I try to control and console. I'm truly worried and I think I must do something. It keeps getting worse and my stress feeds hers.

I can remember the first time I finally just let the toddler go, have her fit right on the floor in front of me. I refused to participate. Once I was comfortable that she would be fine and that I wasn't a bad parent I found myself with some serious peace of mind. Eventually the toddlers find that their behavior doesn't work. They find themselves exposed or not the center of attention and they eventually get that their behavior is not making sense and they change it.

The challenge is you can't control their thoughts or make them see things. You can only set the stage and control the boundaries to insure safety. But what you get out of it is much bigger and independent from when or where they learn their lessons. You get real peace of mind.
_________________________
AKA: "Ben the school teacher"
---
Me:45, W:41 | Ds:10,12&14 | M:18, T:20
Me: MLC+PA+WAS+Separated 10/08
My Request to Reconcile Denied 7/09
W w/OM 6/09-11/09

My Intro Thread

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#1840572 - 09/19/09 09:30 AM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: Butterfly1]
RedSoxFan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 573
Originally Posted By: Hope4Luv
Yes, BJ, he is all rational and reason. And I mostly feelings. And tonight, I just feel done. I'm tired and want to give up.

With all due respect, I don't come away with a picture of a reasonable and rational person from your description of H's actions. I see you Hope, working to bring balance between feeling and reason. Keep doing it. You will prevail in the end.
_________________________
AKA: "Ben the school teacher"
---
Me:45, W:41 | Ds:10,12&14 | M:18, T:20
Me: MLC+PA+WAS+Separated 10/08
My Request to Reconcile Denied 7/09
W w/OM 6/09-11/09

My Intro Thread

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#1840601 - 09/19/09 10:19 AM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: RedSoxFan]
Stronger Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 986
Loc: Florida
Hope,
Yes. Give up. Let go. Move forward.
Don't give up for your marriage. But there's nothing wrong with letting him know you CAN live without him.
It sounds to me like you need to tell him "You're right. Friday, if you don't want to come over for dinner don't." If your interactions on Friday nights are so crappy, why do you want to do it?
For the record, you're stressed too. You can't keep juggling everyone's feelings. You have to work on yours first. When you're stable, being stable isn't so hard...get it?

Just calm down. This is a long hard process.

When something isn't working, stop it. Try something new.

Friday night dinners are not working. So stop it.
_________________________
M-34/H-35/S-4
Bomb-11-08
OW confirmed 12-08-OW ends 6-09
D finalized 4-10
Stronger=Happy

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#1840638 - 09/19/09 12:31 PM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: RedSoxFan]
Butterfly1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1836
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan

Hope, there are a whole bunch of reasons why what you're doing now will pay huge dividends long-term and near-term. I can remember times being so stressed out with one of my toddlers having fits and tantrums. More and more stress builds as I try to control and console. I'm truly worried and I think I must do something. It keeps getting worse and my stress feeds hers.


The challenge is you can't control their thoughts or make them see things. You can only set the stage and control the boundaries to insure safety.


That's what i did this morning. It really helped to think of him like a toddler having a tantrum - like you and Stronger have said.

H came to pick up S4 to take him flying. When he started in about why isn't this ready and that ready to go - I just walked away. I wasn't going to stick around for the tantrum.

Same deal when he drops him off later. I'm going to be in the other room and just take S somewhere by myself and not talk about "plans" wih H. Not going to give him an excuse to have more tantrums with me.
_________________________
Me: 42
Him: 43

Two divorcees in a relationship

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#1840640 - 09/19/09 12:36 PM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: Stronger]
Butterfly1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1836
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Stronger
Hope,
Yes. Give up. Let go. Move forward.
Don't give up for your marriage. But there's nothing wrong with letting him know you CAN live without him.
It sounds to me like you need to tell him "You're right. Friday, if you don't want to come over for dinner don't." If your interactions on Friday nights are so crappy, why do you want to do it?
For the record, you're stressed too. You can't keep juggling everyone's feelings. You have to work on yours first. When you're stable, being stable isn't so hard...get it?

Just calm down. This is a long hard process.

When something isn't working, stop it. Try something new.

Friday night dinners are not working. So stop it.


It's true. I just feel like I'm giving in to H's tantrum. But if H doesn't want to be here, asking him to is only going to be more stress for me. And feeling like I can live without him is good for me - no matter how H takes it.

I'm calmer today but I still feel like giving up. Hard to see how giving up on trying to get along with H is not to not giving up on the marriag. Guess it's more like giving up on trying unless H is ready to try harder to get along with me. H has to take care of his own feelings of anger and resentment. It is hard to take care of everyone else's feelings. But I feel like dropping the ball on caring for H's feelings is giving up on listening and validating, giving up on spending positive time together, and therefor giving up on M altogether. Maybe this is just detachment. I don't know. The long haul isn't looking so good right now.


Edited by Hope4Luv (09/19/09 12:38 PM)
_________________________
Me: 42
Him: 43

Two divorcees in a relationship

Top
#1840669 - 09/19/09 02:35 PM Re: I'm new wondering if this works... [Re: Butterfly1]
Stronger Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 986
Loc: Florida
You have to stop trying so hard in hopes of making him react better to you.

Look at it this way....Let's say you have a co-worker. And it's one you work with weekly, not every day but three times a week minimum. This person doesn't like you. Not sure why, you have thought about it but can't put your finger on it. It's even more odd, because when you first started working together, you really hit off. You would go to lunch and happy hour and knew personal things about each other. While you don't but gifts for all your co-workers, you did for this one and they got you a gift too when the occasion warranted it. So, you actually confront this person nicely, "Do you have an issue with me?" And they say a few things about you, some of it legitimate some of it truly bogus. "I don't like how you put things off for me to do when you could easily do it yourself, plus it's your responsibility first. I feel taken advantage of. And I don't like your eye color."

Ok, it's true. You have put things off and they've had to pick up the slack but your eye color? And they are serious, they really don't like your eyes. Ok. Get real.

What would you do? A good person like you will make the concentrated effort to pull your weight. On occasion you are going to be slammed and they will have to pick up the slack, that's work, that's life. But you are not going to do anything about your eyes....because you can't and really, you just don't want to.

You now are doing your job to your best ability....no longer leaving it for this co-worker. You aren't conceding, you aren't being a wimp as you do more to pull your weight and meet your responsibilities. You are doing the right thing, you are acknowledging you were wrong and that you want to make it right.

With your eye color, well, co-worker will just have to deal and like you, realize they are wrong there. Your eyes are great and you wouldn't change that about you even if you could.

One of three things will happen: 1. The relationship between you and this co-worker will improve, back to like when you first started. Or 2. things get better but not like they were.
And 3. they continue to be an ass.
And if 1 happens, great. This too is a good person who was mad, and answered honestly their issues with you. The first issue was legit, the second stupid and they realized that when you first changed to make the effort to repair your bad work habit and therefore that relationship. But ultimately, you were the winner, not because the relationship improved but because you improved you and got rid of that bad work habit when brought to your attention. As a matter of fact, your co-worker had some bad habits too that were making you nutz, but those habits have been improved upon to in reciprocation to your efforts.

If two happens, that's ok. It's not like it was, but it's better and maybe down the road, things will just continue to improve. But the great things is you're a better person.

And finally with 3, if that's the outcome, you really don't need this co-worker. It's sad that they can't come to see what you've done in terms of your changes and if they can't forgive you for your bad habit that's now been corrected, if they can't see it for whatever reason, then you don't need to worry about it and you didn't waste your time because you improved you.

Does any of this help or make sense?

Improve you. If H notices, and in turn makes changes too, right on. If he doesn't, you are still the better you and no time has been wasted.

Get it?
_________________________
M-34/H-35/S-4
Bomb-11-08
OW confirmed 12-08-OW ends 6-09
D finalized 4-10
Stronger=Happy

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