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I identify with many of the posters on this forum. I have read the books and tried the techniques. At this point I'm afraid that it all just leads to letting them walk out the door, instead of rebuilding marriage. 180's, GAL, Going Dark, these just seem to give up and I know that chasing, begging, R talks don't help, but does the opposite ever help?
Separated four months now - my husband left. We've gone back and forth. A couple of times I thought he was coming back, he even slept in the bed once. But now he is back to - things will never change, if you haven't changed in eight years, how will you ever change, etc. When he comes over he yells about every detail that isn't changing.
Last night I felt progress, we had a family dinner with our son, for the first time in many days he didn't yell at me, when I showed interest in his life, he seemed open to sharing it instead of the usual closing down and "you never cared about my life you dont care now", and when I said I loved him, he said he loved me too, "for what that's worth and it's not worth much."
He has said that he doesn't see how anything is going to change and if he had to decide today he'd divorce me. We went to three therapy sessions and he went on and on about he doesn't see how coming back will be any different than the last time we were in therapy. He is afraid to trust.
However, I'm still waiting to hear if he will return. I have hope but it's hard. Any encouragement or advice will be welcomed.


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Welcome to the board. Sorry you have to be here, but there are lots of people in the same boat as you and you'll get plenty of support.

The people here do care. Keep reading.


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Welcome. You will find a lot of people here who can relate closely with your situation.

As I understand it, the information in the books is not all about giving up. It is about changing things that aren't working. If what we were doing in the past wasn't working, do something different. Maybe going dark isn't the option for you. Doing a 180 from what you have been doing may though. It appears from what you wrote that your husband wants to see change.

Do you see things in your life that you could/should/want to change? Do you see ways to improve yourself? (for yourself and for your marriage) Unless you try something new, H will continue to feel that nothing is changing. (even after things change it will likely take him a while to see it)

Some of the things depend on your situation too. For example, if he feels that he has been neglected you would want to treat it a lot differently than if he has been feeling smothered or nagged.

One thing I do know is that forcing relationship talks rarely goes well. Pursuing doesn't generally pan out for the better either.

Can you give any more information on your situation?

What would H like to see changed?


Me: 35
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Thank you! Your support PIgskin and Giving really help lift my spirits.
He has recently opened up a list of things he needed "for years" but for a long time hid inside. Some changes are :

-taking better care of the house and yard - he is much neater than I am and I realize what I am comfortable with is not what he is comfortable with - cleaner desks, cleaner yard, no dishes in sink, etc.

- not interrupting him or walking away - this is hard when he is screaming at me, but I guess I have to do it. Also, my therapist told me I should walk away if he is being verbally abusive, so there's a conflict there in my mind.

- staying calm - oh this has been my hardest one because we are both volatile people and I get resentful that he only sees that I should stay calm while he admits he should be able to swear, vent, yell, whatever he feels. But he says I am the one who has been too volitile over the years all I can do is take responsibility fo rmy part in it. However, when I do express remorse, appologize, say I am working on it in therapy, etc, he just says he doesn't believe me so I don't know what to do.

-he doesn't want me to say "you do it to" although our therapist agrees we both have habits that lead to horrible fights, he does not in any way want to feel blamed. I understand this because I don't either. However, I am trying to be the one who changes. It just hurts to be blamed myself.

- doing what I say I will do - follow through. He is nitpicking every little thing I do or don't do but I need to be extra careful or else he explodes at the tiniest thing.

-admit our side of our sex issues - again, it's both of us, but I guess he's not willing to look at his side now. So I need to not ask him. I don't know how I can take more resp. here if he won't touch me!

That's all I can think of now - I've told him I'm joining coda and a sex abuse support group to work on myself and he still doesn't believe me...and I can't get to the housework until my son is back in school next month. Ugh. every night he is either gone or droppin in to yell about what I've done wrong. It's very depressing.


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Oh, and he feels neglected, not pressured. In the past I have done things that made him feel neglected which I didn't realize before - like not sharing in his interests, not showing an interest in his work, being gone a lot at night. I have started being home every night, showing interest in his life, etc. hope it takes.


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Well If he's felt neglected, "Going Dark" probably would be a bad idea. I wouldn't push R talks either.

I am no expert. I have learned a lot from the past 10 months of my own situation, but since I am still in process, I can only claim to be successful with changing myself, not my wife. It seems to me though that once a spouse is ready to walk away they aren't going to "snap out" of it quickly. You'll need to prepare yourself for this being a long period of growth for the two of you. (I assume that you have made a choice to love your husband and work through this)

It looks like you are well aware of the issues. Are these things that you are willing to work on? Are you prepared to be the one who initiates change and stop doing the same old things that don't work? Easy to say...tough to do. Especially when you're in the heat of an arguement.

I'm in the middle of the book "The Dance of Anger." It may be a good one for you. It addresses some of the very issues that you mentioned. (how to argue...I mean have "conversations" more effectively...trying something new etc.)

Staying calm, following through, not blaming, and not nit-picking are likely going to be hard habits to break, but not impossible. This may be a great opportunity to grow as a person.

Do you have kids, how long married etc?


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Thank you, GivingMyAll,
Yes I am ready to do the changes myself. When we first separated, four months ago, I wanted him to change with me. I didn't want to feel blamed and I wanted us to work together. That's why it's four months later and my H says he doesn't see enough changes of what I said I'd do. I was making it contingent on his self responsiblity as well.

It wasn't until we went to a MC (three sessions now) that I heard the therapist say we are both arguing in damaging, hurful ways. I was at first devastated that he didn't back me up on how horrible my husband was being. Then I got it. i was blaming as much as he was. I was fighting as much as he was. i was justifying my behavior when it looked a lot like his.

Unfortunately, it may be too late. My husband says he told me he would give me four months to see changes and now he hasn't. When I say I'm seeing things in a new light, he doesn't believe me. He says what many people on this board say their spouses say - that the same problems have been going on for too many years and they don't believe anything can change.

My changes are very new. I can only hope he hangs on and acknowledges my changes eventually. It feels like the end but he hasn't filed papers so that's good. he's threatened to not go back to the therapist, but he hasn't actually missed an appointment yet.

So here I am in my new effort to not blame, argue, nitpick, while he is still throwing punches left and right. We have a four year old son, so when he comes over to take care of him, he is either cold and distant, or very nitpicky and angry. I see babysteps. He's been so enraged the last month that anytime he was even here he was exploding over the littlest thing. Now it's down to nitpicking which is tough to handle, but better than explosions. The CD player's power was still on. It's a few complaints each time, then back to coldness.

It's painful but I'm determined not to engage in arguments.

I saw him thaw out a bit when I made family dinner the other night. He even invited me to watch a show with him (our evening ritual before this all went down). I was so excited. Unfortunately, he worked for a few hours on his computer then came out angry and tired and not willing to watch a show. But the offer was a small change. It meant a lot to him that I had showed interest in his work and hobbies, something he needed for years that I never gave him.

We had a couple good days of calm conversation over the phone - mostly about household and childcare stuff but still it was calm and that was a small improvement.

Right now he is putting my son to sleep and I don't know what to do. I should just stay in the bedroom and let him have space (he sleeps on the couch). But of course since he offered to watch a show the other night, I want to go in there and offer to watch one with him. I don't want to push him away, but the coldness in the house is killing me.

I hope I can hang in there through all this time and space. I guess if I stay calm and show interest in his life and work on following through, I can only hope it will pay off - some day.


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Well I compromised with myself. I went in and asked him to let me know if he wants to watch a show, then left the room. He is genuinely exhausted and laying on the couch. I'm trying not to take this as a rejection, as I normally would (hey, that's a 180!) and just quietly returned to my room to do things that make myself happy. It's hard but I guess that's how I should handle things!


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(((((Hope)))))

It seems to me that the biggest thing you can work on R wise is trying to break the cycle of anger that you both seem to feed. In my opinion, the problem isn't really things like how the house is, it's more how you both react to it. Since you can't control his reaction, any change has to start though you. The, hopefully, he changes his actions as well.

I'd also say that listening to him does not mean listening to him yell at you. I would be mightily tempted to say, "H, I want to hear what you have to say, and to discuss it. But I will not be yelled at this way. IF you want to talk about xyz, I'll be in the next room." Of course, how can you say that while he is yelling? I've never heard of this, so it may be a whacky idea.... how about preparing a note in advance? When he starts yelling, hand him the note, and leave the room. If the two of you can communicate with respect, maybe there can be progress.

Also, for communication, you might want to consider Retrouvaille. http://www.retrouvaille.org/

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Thank you VH. You are right. I've been working very hard the last two weeks to stop the cycle of arguing. Like I said before, my usual stance was to want H to control his reactions and his anger, and to not want to change until he does. This has been my stance for years. I'm finally getting it that I no longer can wait for him to be nice, or calm, or fair, or whatever. I have a choice as to my words and actions only. I am working really hard on this and still slip sometimes but I feel good at the progress.

The walking away when he's yelling at me is so hard. My C tells me exactly what you said, that listening to him yell or vent is not helpful and isn't "hearing each other". But H thinks if I leave, I "don't care" and "don't want to hear him". I have said over and over again exactly what you suggested almost word for word! It enrages him more. So if I get him to keep coming to counselling, this is something I intend to bring up.

He says he feels raw like his hurts are just hanging out exposed to be set off at the tiniest thing. They are hurts from the past. I just have to remind myself of that and not take it in that it is about the nitpicky thing.

Ps After a nap, he invited me to the living room to watch a show. We laughed together. This used to be our evening ritual before the bomb and this is the first time we have shared this since. Baby steps! He's still threatening to be gone all weekend, however, so I should n't get my hopes up.

The MC says that if I can stay calm and do my changes for a month, it will give him more leverage to back me up in the counselling to ask H directly if he notices my changes and to then talk about him making changes too. But until then, the work is mine.


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Two divorcees in a relationship
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