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#1836880 - 09/13/09 12:39 PM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
karen43 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 4886
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I guess what I'm saying is that if I'm too available to her now, is that a 180 to how I was before?
I think you answered your own question. You're being too available to her.



Quote:
I know that this example was pursuit - but it was also a 180. Initiating a "date", vs. my W planning it, getting the sitter, etc. And she responded positively to the idea.
Right, because you are acting like she wants/expects you to. She plans on you acting like her bff during and after the divorce. I think DBing is about throwing off their expectations and making them think.



Quote:
I was looking for a quote posted by JamesJohn back in the old days from '03, but couldn't find it. What he said though was that DBing isn't about not pursuing, it's about doing what works.
That's true, but your acting like her best friend hasn't been working too well. She's filing for D and planning on having you move out of your house. If you read DB, I would think it's time for LRT at this point.

Quote:
If I'm in another room reading a book while she's watching TV - that's more of the same. If I'm sitting there with her watching TV - that's too available. I'm just not always clear on what to do.
I agree. Instead of focusing on your GALing and DBing as to what will make her happy or whatever, you need to focus on yourself and your kids at this point.




Quote:
At some point, if I'm going to demonstrate more openness / intimacy, I need to figure out how that goes.
I think you have demonstrated a lot of openness/intimacy with your W from your posts this last month or 2. More than most marriages. With her having an A, and trying to break apart your family; I don't think you should be working on openness and intimacy with her at all at this point. If she's willing to give up her A, then that would be the time. I think you are blaming yourself way too much for your being at this point.
_________________________
Me 49
D13, S19

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#1836886 - 09/13/09 01:19 PM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: karen43]
givingitmyall Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 3844
Loc: Southeast
Bill,

Karen is right. If your W is in an A, she doesn't deserve your openness or initimacy right now. If she can get those things from OM AND have you to fall back on, then she is cake eating. Of course she does'nt want you to pull back, then she loses part of her safety net (a very big part) and things don't go as she planned.

I agree with Karen that right now is the time for LRT. You have to shake her up a bit. You did that with the checkbook, and despite what your W told you, that was GOOD. She needs to be uncomfortable with her decision to D you. If she does NOT feel uncomfortable or stressed, then you are assisting in your own execution. Which is why you need to pull back (i.e., NO pursuit - no foot rubs, no massages, no invites to dinner dates, no intimacy).

Karen is dead on here - your openness may be a 180 for you, but it isn't working. If anything, I think it is making her decision to move forward with D even easier b/c in a sense, you are rolling over and giving her exactly what she wants. I suspect if you stay on this course, there will be no change on her decision to D.

You don't have to be rude to her (and I'm NOT suggesting you do that). But, get busy with yourself doing two things: (1) Make changes in yourself and FOR YOURSELF, that need to be made (I would suggest working on your assertiveness and self esteem - pick up "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and read it) and (2) Get busy GAL'ing (reconnect with some old friends, start meeting friends for dinner and a movie, get back in shape, pick up a hobby you've always wanted to do).

Point of all this is that your W needs to see you improving yourself and being happy WITHOUT her. She also needs to get the understanding (by you not including her in your GAL'ing) what it's going to be like when she loses her BFF. This MAY make her stop for a minute to reconsider her decision to D. But I believe it is only once she comes to that understanding (that you will be civil with her to help raise the kids but NOT her friend if she D's you and breaks up your family) that she may change her mind about D.

One last thing (and sorry for the long post). I have not seen many (any?) sitch's here where the WAS had a realistic view of what the end result of D would be. In virtually every sitch (MINE INCLUDED), the WAS truly believes D is a good thing and, here's the key, that ridiculous premise appears to be based upon the WAS's belief that their soon to be ex will still be their best friend. I don't know about you, but I value my family too much to be "friends" with ANY person who would break it apart. I feel strong emotions towards such a person, and none of them are "friendly."


Edited by givingitmyall (09/13/09 01:24 PM)
_________________________
Me 43, S11, D7
M13
Bomb 4/20/09
Current

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#1837008 - 09/13/09 11:30 PM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: givingitmyall]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
Thanks guys.

Well I spent the bulk of today out of the house. I'm surprised at what a struggle it was for me.

Went to church. Went to the bookstore - unforunately they didn't have "no more mr. nice guy" - had lunch with a friend, hung out for awhile, went and got my oil changed.

The whole time I wanted to just come home, and it was a really strong impulse.

I'm thinking a lot about what you guys are saying.
Trying to figure myself out. I am really not used to being without her. I really need to pull back and look at myself - what I look like as just me.

Let's face it - as much as I've been working the last few years, and as much as I like being home - establishing a life outside my family hasn't been a priority for a long time. I'm used to my W being largely my only outlet.

So yeah, I need to figure out how to be happy without her. And change my need for her.

I think I still have some depression to kick. And you know, avoiding crowds and wanting to be at home is not new for me. I think this situation is bringing that out more.

Hobby - I should return to my guitar-building I guess. My neck on my current build has been sitting idle for months and months.

--------------
OK well she just came in here, and asked "is this a good time to talk"? Sheesh what is it with her and always wanting to talk?

She had figured out all the expenses and come to the conclusion that she's not going to be able to keep the house. I kind of shrugged and agreed. I think she's starting to get a view of how expensive this is going to be.

I wanted to say something like, well maybe we should stay married, or maybe I should take full custody of the kids and stay in the house, or something like that. But I didn't.

She kind of made small talk for a minute or so, I didn't say a whole lot, then she left. Said she got a roasted chicken for dinner, went off to take a bath.
--------------------
Wow, my son just came in here and gave me a book he picked out and W bought, saying "because you work so hard." Biography of John Lennon.

I suppose reading counts as a hobby, I've been reading a lot... seems like I really need more friends and social interaction though.

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#1837017 - 09/14/09 12:27 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
givingitmyall Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 3844
Loc: Southeast
Bill,

I think social interaction would do worlds for you. It will help your self confidence immensely.
_________________________
Me 43, S11, D7
M13
Bomb 4/20/09
Current

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#1837038 - 09/14/09 01:53 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: givingitmyall]
C-Bart Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 882
Loc: Missouri
Bill,
Your post hit pretty close to home on a couple of points especially the depression part and wanting just to stay home and avoid people. I remember standing in Home Depot a couple of years ago, feeling the walls close in on me. Its a nightmare. I've been in therapy for over a year and I feel different most of the time. However, when little things come up its almost like going back to square one. I'm trying to figure out how to prepare for these in advance. Still a work in progress.

GIMA makes a good point about social interaction. The little touch points like talking to the cashier at the gas station can really make a difference. I actually took a job that forces me to interact with new people on a daily basis. Kind of got detoured but that is another story. I read the other day that we are not directly in control of our emotions. However we are in control of our actions which directly control out emotions. Still working on this:-) Today seems to be a good test.

This post is starting to go long. I just wanted to tell you that your not alone.
_________________________
_________________________
Me-41
W-39
M-15 yrs T-17 yrs
D-12
S-9
S-8
B 5/08
S 1/09

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#1837042 - 09/14/09 02:02 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: C-Bart]
givingitmyall Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 3844
Loc: Southeast
Bill,

A little more. I was posting from my blackberry earlier.

If you have issues with depression, then get in to see a professional about it. Nothing to be ashamed about.

Also, one of the things I did early on was to make myself speak to strangers (cashier in a grocery store as I check out, another customer in line with me at a store). It forced me to be more outgoing and worked on my conversation skills. And it helped with my confidence.

I am slightly introverted, so my tendency is to keep to myself with people I don't know. It often comes off as people perceiving me as aloof.

Get outside your comfort zone a bit. It will force you to grow.
_________________________
Me 43, S11, D7
M13
Bomb 4/20/09
Current

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#1837048 - 09/14/09 02:18 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: givingitmyall]
C-Bart Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 882
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: givingitmyall
Bill,

If you have issues with depression, then get in to see a professional about it. Nothing to be ashamed about.

Can agree more with GIMA on this. It took me years to see someone from something that was slowly destroying my life. Now that I've been going for over a year I can't tell you how much better I feel. I don't think I could have survived my sitch without the help of a pro. Also you don't necessarily need meds to get through depression if you are concerned about that aspect as I was.

Originally Posted By: givingitmyall


I am slightly introverted, so my tendency is to keep to myself with people I don't know. It often comes off as people perceiving me as aloof.



Ditto only I'm extremely introverted. Aloof is a kind way of putting it.

I guess in a way I'm thankful to my W for leaving. It has forced me to grow in some very important aspects of my life.
_________________________
_________________________
Me-41
W-39
M-15 yrs T-17 yrs
D-12
S-9
S-8
B 5/08
S 1/09

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#1837063 - 09/14/09 02:49 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: C-Bart]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
Hey guys - GIMA, C-Bart, thanks for the responses

Yeah, when W hit me with this I immediately went to the doctor and got on meds. I saw a counciler a couple of times, but didn't really click with her - had occurred to me that I should try with someone else. Anyway, I was on meds and went to therapy the first time we went through this, so I'm open to it.

I'm an engineering manager - usually, I'm in meetings literally every hour of the day, talking to people. Now that I think about it, I've probably withdrawn in my engagement. But yeah, work is probably more or less my comfort zone.

I've got some friends that I've reached out to - buddy at work I've eaten lunch with a couple of times, and plan to again - another buddy that's said, we should go out for a beer, etc. So I have tenatively again started building my social network.

I just need to follow through now.

Yeah, I'm an introverted aloof guy too. W has commented how engaging and funny I can be around friends when we get together, so I'm not a "don't talk to me" kind of guy - but it takes a lot of energy. But right now all that seems to be stripped away. I was shocked at how I felt today.

I have noticed recently that, for example, giving someone a genuine smile when they give me change, that makes me feel good. I think now clearly I need to focus on interaction. Clearly I've become withdrawn.

BTW, have any of you tried divorce support groups? I found this website recently: http://www.divorcecare.com/

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#1837068 - 09/14/09 02:59 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: NoLongerHere]
C-Bart Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 882
Loc: Missouri
I went to one meeting of DivorceCare and found it very supportive. Unfortunately my schedule at the time (70% travel) was not conducive to weekly meetings. I did get a reference to a good attorney though. A friend of mine went through the entire program and she really liked it. It is determinately a Christian program and emphasizes putting God first. They have a daily email that I look forward to every morning.

Interesting what your saying about the introverted personality. The energy thing is huge. If I have to do a presentation or a series of sales calls I will be completely wiped out at the end of the day.
_________________________
_________________________
Me-41
W-39
M-15 yrs T-17 yrs
D-12
S-9
S-8
B 5/08
S 1/09

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#1837074 - 09/14/09 03:09 AM Re: BillM's new thread [Re: C-Bart]
NoLongerHere Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1485
Yeah -

I do presentations nearly every day. Maybe I should think about that - could be why I find work just takes it out of me in general. I am constantly "On". And I haven't had the energy to do it as well since this has started.

This is what W used to complain about - work would take so much, then we'd have the kids, etc. By the end of the day I just needed time to myself to recharge, and W was like, where's the time for me?

Thanks C-Bart - I might check this DivorceCare thing out.

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