BillM's new thread

[GoBison]

So why did you tell her where you were at? Couldn't you just say you where out with a friend and leave it at that.

This, my continined friendship and respect for her, seems to mean a lot to her.

So, in terms of concequences. The thing she's talked about worrying most about is "losing me".

If this is true then she will have to be the one that comes to you. Her going off to another man will not keep your friendship. If she is afraid to lose you pulling away will motivate her to come to you.

Really look at what the other man has that she was wanting. Is it his strength and confidence? Or is it to have someone to talk to?

You stood up to her. Being too friendly now will only make you look weak and she is not looking for you to be weak she wanted you to stand up to her and she is only going to test you.

[givingitmyall]

I agree with both Stronger and GoBison.

As far as how you show her you want to talk to her, I think what she is probably saying is that she doesn't feel like you are LISTENING to her. She probably does not feel she has your undivided attention when she talks to you.

It is NOT pursuit. It is putting down everything else when she talks to you and listening. Not trying to fix her problem - she does not want that, she just wants to tell you. So, look her in the eyes, ask an occasional open ended question to keep her talking and to show your interest.

Try that a few times and see what happens.

[NoLongerHere]

Thank you guys. This sounds right to me.

Just talked to W on the phone, the L wanted to confirm that her L has subbed out. She's struggling today - she said that she doesn't like it when I'm mad at her - "don't like it at all."

Funny that we're going through all this, and she's shaken by me being mad at her.

I wasn't sure what to say - I didn't want to say sorry, it's ok, whatever. I just said, well, we'll get through it.

She asked to go to the movies with a neighbor tonight - she does this every Tuesday. And yes, I know there's no funny business about it.

[givingitmyall]

Don't blame you for having the anger. Just make sure it is not the basis for your decision (I don't think it is). Also, when dealing with her, I suspect you will get more effective results if you are cool, calm, collected and all business.

[NoLongerHere]

Gaaaaa - strange night.

Well, from continued monitoring (which I feel I need to stop), discovered that W was where she said she was this weekend, didn't actually see this guy, and most recently that it was sad that he wasn't going to "see her for awhile."

So, I came home. W was very short with me. I asked her if she'd broken if off, she said yes, but it was kind of silly because there wasn't much to it. I asked if she blocked him on FB, and she said no, and she wasn't going to do it. I said then she needed to move out. She said no.

Then she said that I was trying to remove her support system. I said no, that she's having an affair and it needs to stop. That I saw this guy as responsible for what' going on. So, she said, no, do you know what this was? We went to the king Tut exhibit, and some art show. She said, he took me out a couple of times, and she'd already called it off anyway because she wasn't going to let it go any further until we'd figured out our situation.

So I said, do I need to contact him myself? And she said that would make her very angry, and if I wanted things to get nasty, then...

And that's when the kids showed up. So that kind of petered out.

Then I went back into the kitchen, and she said, I don't want to be at odds with you - and this kind of turned into a R discussion at that point. She said, I've worked on this so hard, and I said, when are you talking about, and she said, since the last seperation, for the last 10 years.

She said, you have so many good qualities - I could have loved you forever, if not for the intimacy. I said, we've had sex regularly, etc., and she said that's not it. I said tell me, and she can't put it into words. Don't know, more passion, talking more, etc. She also said, she knew it from the beginning. We connected on so many levels except for this - and then she said, but she's changing, I'm changing, etc.

This is a little muddy in my head I guess. But she said that, though it seemed enough for me, it wasn't enough for her. And then she said, that when this is over I'll see, I'll meet someone better for me, someone more like my sisters, but she's not like that, she's not a housewife, she's not this or that - she said, "I'm weird like my mom."

Well, then we all ate dinner.

Then she asked for the checkbook, and this is when I told her I'd opened up my own checking account. So... she pushed me into another room.

What does this mean? You're on MY checking account... are you going to be hiding money? What are you doing?

So I said, this is going to have to happen. I put some money in there from a stock sale, so it's there if we have to go get an apartment or something. Soon I'll set it up for my direct deposit, and have the car payment auto-withdrawn from there. The bills will get paid, everything will be fine. But this needs to happen.

And she said... you're right. We're going to have to do this, she hadn't thought of that yet, but she's going to go get me off her checking account, we'll both pay the bills out of our two accounts. And we're going to have to talk about dividing things up, what we're going to do about the house, etc. So talked about selling the house, no she wants to keep it for the boys - so I said, then you'd have to buy me out, etc. etc.

So after awhile, I said, talk to me about something else. And we just talked. Now she's gone to the movies.

I said, I miss the movies, and she commented that I'd only ever gone with her. We talked about maybe going to a movie together.

I am sad. I'm not angry, I'm not sick, I'm not scared.

I am sad because I can see myself being at peace with all this.

[givingitmyall]

Bill,

Sounds like you did very well with a tough conversation...again.

I am sad because I can see myself being at peace with all this.

Yeah. I know. I have felt the same way.

She said, you have so many good qualities - I could have loved you forever, if not for the intimacy. I said, we've had sex regularly, etc., and she said that's not it. I said tell me, and she can't put it into words. Don't know, more passion, talking more, etc.

This is a BIG deal. I suspect what she's talking about is her perception you did not let her completely into your being, your soul - your fears, dreams, worries. Intimacy is really bearing your soul to someone who has teh power to hurt you like no one else. It is a privilege you bestow on only THE closest to you. How was this part of your R?

[NoLongerHere]

This is a BIG deal. I suspect what she's talking about is her perception you did not let her completely into your being, your soul - your fears, dreams, worries. Intimacy is really bearing your soul to someone who has teh power to hurt you like no one else. It is a privilege you bestow on only THE closest to you. How was this part of your R?

Early when we were dating, she sat me down and said that if I didn't open up to her more she was going to walk. I guess she's always wanted more of me.

She's noted at times that I seem to be happy that she's just in the house with me.

I guess the best answer to your question is that she's said that she's felt lonely.

Yeah GIMA I suppose that's the heart of the matter.

I'm sorry, I can't stop crying right now. That's all for the moment.

[Sara]

You don't have to go down this road. There is an alternative. You could make your marriage better. Your wife is not having an affair. You don't really need to kick her out of the house for having a male friend on FB.

Do you want to improve your marriage? Go to the website, www.helpourmarriage.org and read about the four stages of marriage. You'll know which stage you're in. Look for a Retrouvaille weekend near you. There are a lot offered this month and next. Ask her to go with you. It is not marriage counseling. It is more of a weekend retreat for couples to work on their communication skills with each other.

Retrouvaille saves marriages. But it does more than that. It helps you to move from an unhappy marriage to a happy one. It worked for me, and several other people on this website. You owe it to your boys to try to have a happy marriage and not just give up when the going gets tough.

[Deep]

Sara's right, from what you posted, I think Retrouvaille would help.

Just my personal opinion, I think a lot of what your W is going through could fall under the WAS category of "crying for help". I could relate that to a lot of what my W told her she went through. That the way things were going were just not good enough any more. There has to be more to life than a "stable" M. That there was so much she felt was wrong about the M over time but she accepted it as part of life. How could she feel something for someone else (she never thought it possible), therefore, we had lost our connection - leading to the classic "I love you but ...".

There are elements of MLC there, and OM, whether as a "special friend" or outright lover just helps so much to make things seem so much worse and distort history and reality. In my sitch, besides OM, W had friends who went through serious illness, which made the whole issue of living for the moment and feelings that life must have more to offer ever more pressing.

From what I've seen, you and her both need time. She needs to find herself and her balance again. You need to try and uuderstand and support this, while maintaining some boundaries.

[givingitmyall]

Bill,

You have two choices. First, you can give up. I don't think you want that, nor is it what I would want.

Second, change this. Start opening up to her little by little. When its just you two, tell her your fears, dreams, what makes you happy. Just tell her what is in your head. She wants, and NEEDS, to know.

On the OM issue, you have said your piece. Now back off that for a while. Keep your eyes open though.

Come on, man, its not too late.