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#1805546 - 07/21/09 05:02 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: Chel]
BeingMe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 4053
Loc: Canada
Hi Chel! So sorry you're having such a bad time. I know how one's feelings can get hurt, where your stomach hurts, your heart beats painfully, and you just don't know what to do. Been there, done that, got the coffee mug.

Look, I did get my H back to a degree, but it's not the person I married. It's more like the best friend came back, but the H didn't. And, I think it was because I was too easy on him. Perhaps if I had been harder, stronger, less willing to accommodate him and his needs at that time ('cause now, none of my needs are being met except those of a friend).

So, here is my advice (and I am going according to my experience ---- your H may react differently) ---- tell him to go to Montreal, do whatever he wants, but you are going to take your time with the D no matter what he does. The papers can be sent there. Tell him he is a damned coward for not telling his family and quite frankly you are not interested him anymore as a husband (since he's not the same man you married), but you are still going to take your time, because this is not something one rushes. You will require at least 6 months (or whatever time you think is best) to settle things with your attorney's assistance. If that doesn't fit in with his schedule then tough luck. You aren't here to wipe his feet on. Also, tell him that if he does go to Montreal and bites into any new flesh, then there will be no coming back ('cause you don't know what disease he would pick up), no friendship coming from you 'cause a friend doesn't cause this sort of pain.

Anyway, what I am trying to say here is you have to toughen up, don't let him see you cry, don't give in to his anger and manipulations, his little tantrums. Decide on what you're going to do and stay the course. I get the feeling that your H has had his way most of your M which is fine if it's benign and you're happy, but now is not the time to let him pout and you go, "aw, I'm sorry, okay I'll do it." Tough love, I think is what it's called.

Take care.
_________________________
Me:55 H:50 M:27 S:2 Been to the lawyer.
D32,S/D twins25,D20
EA4/04 End4/05?
Life is good! Living with gratitude.

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#1805675 - 07/21/09 07:03 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: BeingMe]
peacetoday Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 2588
C
I also was too easy on my XH
I tend to agree with Being me
the truth is they are going to go in most cases no matter what we do
we db and it sets the road for friendship which is most likely what most of these MLCERS want..
that is ok. it keeps the door open, but usually H do not return
IN fact, Ive read we have to fully move on before they may think of return

I agree..get a good L
take your Time
get everything you need to get
let your H go

Once he moves out, you will be able to heal
the house will be quiwt and you can dediacte your energy to the grieving and healing process which takes time
after that is completed, you are
free
changed
reborn
and anything is possible
so hang on
the rewards you will get has nothing to do with your H returning or not
peace
_________________________
married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow

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#1806259 - 07/22/09 05:04 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: BeingMe]
Chel Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/09
Posts: 69
BeingMe & Peace,

When I read your posts I just say to myself, so true, so right, yes that is exactly how I feel. Today the pain from the comments, actions/etc., is gone.

I have been spacing out so much lately just trying to picture my life alone or H staying or H coming back. And, at this point to just be alone for a little while would be a welcome luxury. Right now I don't want H to stay because so much has been said, done, emotions/pain is raw. No doubt both yourself and Peace have been there done that...

Both you and Peace raised very good points. Peace raised the issue of results of our DB'ing, that it really kind of allows the H to know we will be there if nothing else - as friends. I, myself, am totally starting to question this whole DB in and of itself after reading several posts. I do believe DB in general is good, it certainly makes you feel as though you are not alone, it certainly gives you hope your marriage can survive and it does tell you to take care of yourself, change things about yourself, etc. These are all positives. However, at a certain point, if DB'ing has not produced results and the spouse continues to exhibit behavior that is inappropriate in a marriage, talk D, threaten to leave, etc. do we just allow them to have their affair, run away and seek out their lost youth? Or, do we say "look this is inappropriate behavior, I have done everything possible within reason to reach out, admit my faults, be supportive and to let you know I would like the marriage to work; however, up until this point you have done absolutely nothing positive to improve any aspects of our marriage and frankly your behaviors/actions are totally hurtful, inappropriate and unacceptable". I don't know the answer but I feel like labeling the spouse as MLC almost gives them license to behave this way. It certainly helps for this group to understand the behaviors and recognize them but as my Telephone Counselor once said when I was telling her I thought my H was in MLC, she just said it doesn't really matter. She later on did indicate that yes, H seemed to be exhibiting these behaviors, but I keep going back to that statement am I treating H with kid gloves because I feel sorry he is going through MLC and would like to be supportive if he does crash and burn and want to come back? Does labeling them MLC somehow give them an illness where we feel the need to take care of them or allow them to act in such a manner? At some point, I just feel like hey, many women would just have drawn a line in the sand said get out! Again, don't know the answer and maybe that would damage any ability for them to come home.

I just get to the point where I start to think why do women have to be so strong, and why do these white males get by with so much inappropriate behavior and forgiven? Don't get me wrong I love my H very much and for the majority of our marriage have been very happy. I also know marriages can survive OW and can come back together and am hoping myself that is the end result; however, knowing in advance it may take years and all the extra work that is required of us to make this happen is it reasonable and really in our best interest?

Sorry, rambling as thoughts pop in and out. Just questions I have and no doubt you both have probably thought about.

I had hoped BeingMe your camping trip had produced a more intimate exchange with your H and I can understand how you are anxious for that part of your marriage to be back. You are also correct when you commented I have been, well I'll just say it, mothering of my H. I am guilty of being the one everyone can depend on, a caring/nurturer. And, I am basically comfortable with that role as long as someone doesn't take advantage of my kindness and laid back approach to life. But H is and has been and I believe it contributed to getting to this juncture in our marriage. I honestly think I would have been better off months ago to give an ultimatum. Again, will never know or if I did and that went badly I would be sorry I handles it that way. I just feel H knows how forgiving and loving I am and cannot really understand the consequences if he leaves. He probably feels like I will be there waiting so what the heck I'll go and do what I want and if it doesn't work than Chel will take me back.

So ladies, advice do I give an ultimatum (leave without D or go to 2-day counseling session with Michelle in Boulder);or, do I continue not to show him how upset he makes me, don't bring up any R or D talk unless H brings up? This also includes me making plans for my future on my own.

And, you both may have already answered this question but I am a slow learner and unbelievably still looking for hope. But, to-date have never given H an ultimatum as with DB this has not been advised.

Slowing going dark,
Chel

M 42
H 41
M 16 yrs.
Together 20 yrs.
Bomb 5/16/09
Working on financial D papers





No looking back or having regrets because we cannot change anything, no sense beating ourselves up.

So, at this juncture I have an appt. with potential attorney on Friday and I have the financial paperwork 75% complete and if I feel comfortable with the attorney I will retain her and give her the financial paperwork to review on my behalf. In the meantime, my H figured out we could do D paperwork ourselves. I had told him repeatedly we could D without attorneys at all; because H was adamant we only needed one attorney (of course the one H picked for himself). H has put that information in the pile of D paperwork without saying anythings but it was clearly added to the pile and no doubt he is aware I've seen them.

So, now my current issue is whether I just confront this head on or continue to dance around any R or D talk as long as I can and just continue to make plans for my future without H?
Half of me wants to sit down tonight and say the following:
Look, you have put money down on an apt. in Montreal, you obviously want a D and you will not agree to any counseling and for all purposes are done with this marriage. So, here is the deal - if you want to D without attorneys than you are going to do the D filing, etc. I will complete information where required and will sign without dragging this out; or, if we go the other route we will both retain our own attorneys. My big concern is our joint mutual funds and any future tax consequences that is why I would be in favor of attorney route. Also, this means that any wifely duties I may have been doing up and until this time is over. There will be no meals, no sleeping together, no grocery shopping, etc. for your benefit. So, if you would like to get going now, as BeingMe mentioned let H go to Montreal and worry about D later because there is no way this will resolved wrapped up before his target leave date of late August. Also, if H has intention of still changing his mind he would need to agree to the 2 day Therapy session in Boulder with Michelle Weiner-Davis. H needs to know when he goes I will be considering this a loss, will grieve and than will have to get on with a life alone. I will have to get a new job, a new place to live and new friends, etc. I would indicate I would not ignore him if he did contact me and if there were every any chance he had made a mistake, wanted to come back and I was in agreement with that, he would have to make the appointment with Michelle in Boulder first and we would have to date, start all over again.

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#1806335 - 07/22/09 06:44 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: Chel]
Kimmie Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 1478
I think an ultimatum would be fine, as long as you mean it. Also, be prepared for the anger, but just stay strong and laugh it off.

WAS's think we are so ridiculous when we dare to stand up for ourselves. Nevermind that their demands are so reasonable.....

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#1806363 - 07/22/09 07:34 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: Chel]
BeingMe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 4053
Loc: Canada
Hi Chel! smile

No ultimatum, until he starts getting nasty, and bringing up D talk again. You tried everything you knew to save your M, and that is so commendable. DBing says, though, that if something isn't working then try something else. Pointless doing the same thing over and over without results. I think if your H is in MLC then he will not heal or come back until he has 'crashed and burned' ---- he will have to go through the process. But, if this is just him spouting off, just bored and needing a 'something' different, then I say call his bluff. If he brings up D and leaving, walk to the door, open it and tell him he's welcome to use this facility anytime. You're done with this emotional blackmail so if he wants out then "get out now." This toughness could be a 180 for you since I think you are more the gentler kind of person who doesn't want to hurt his feelings. He may go or he may stay and work it out. But, how long can you last on this emotional rollercoaster? Whatever you're doing isn't working, it seems, so try something else. Oh, and definitely, cut off all wifely 'duties' --- if he doesn't even feel guilty about ML when he knows he's leaving (my H felt very guilty about this) then he has really detached himself from you. I'm sorry to say it, but I think he's just using your body until it's replaced with another one. This could also be another 180 for you.

Definitely, make plans for your future without him --- get excited about it. I did and I was almost sorry when my H begged me to come back. There's a big, wide world out there just waiting to be explored and not having to deal with your H's issues would be a huge burden off your shoulders. Perhaps you should go back to Colorado (I get the impression that's your home state) where you have family? (That's if you have to get another job.) If he wants you back then he's going to have to work for it, and that will mean he would have to live where you live, if it comes to that.

Feel the pain or not, but don't let him see that anything he says or does has any affect. Because then he controls you, and he knows it. He's using your pain to manipulate you into giving him what he wants. I am so glad that you haven't given in to signing the papers yet. You see! You can be tough.

As for friendship --- if they're in MLC, they won't care about your being their friend. Pointless even mentioning it. Half of what he says or you say will have been forgotten. My H said some really awful things that he has no memory of, and denies saying it, that, "I would never have said something like that to you." There you go --- how do you argue against that, 'eh? crazy If he hits bottom, then he will come out and see if you're still there. If this is not MLC, then I think one has to wait awhile before mentioning your always being a friend, etc., at least until he has made up his mind what he's going to do and actually does it. Then, as a last resort, you can tell him 'the door may not be open, but I'll leave a crack in the window, but I don't know how long that window will remain open. I will, however, always care for you as a friend.' If you are still saying ILU --- stop!

If/when it comes to this point, I suggest you say as little as possible --- keep it as succinct as possible and firmly state your words so that he can have no question that you mean what you say.

Here is a statement you could follow if he starts up with the demands for D papers, etc., being mean, demanding, etc.:

Put your hand up like a policeman stopping a car, and say, "stop, enough, I will speak now." Point to the front door and say, "you are free, anytime, to walk right out that door. No-one is holding you back. I will take my time with D and will not be bullied into anything. I am done with this emotional blackmail and deem my wifely duties, therefore, are no longer required since you want to end the M. So, if you're not leaving immediately, then sleep in another bed, do your own laundry, make your own meals (and anything else you do for him). I will be moving on with my life and I know that no matter what, I will be okay. Do you understand what I am saying? (If he answers in the affirmative) Good, so I feel there is nothing more to discuss unless it's to say good-bye or you are willing to work on the M --- those are your two options right now, and I don't want to hear anything else coming out of your mouth." Turn around and walk away to your bedroom or somewhere private, and cry, breath, swear, punch the pillows (or all of the above). IMHO, it's time for you to take control of your life and this sitch. He's been pulling the strings for long enough.

Well, this is my opinion, anyway. Stay strong and remember that this too shall pass. I know how hard this will be. For instance, I could barely sleep when my H was in the other bedroom. I just wanted him to rush into mine and say that it was all a mistake, yadda yadda. You know, all that romantic stuff, but it didn't happen --- not for quite a long time. I sure cried a lot during those days. Everyone is different though, so you have to do what you are comfortable doing.

If nothing else, the message is --- do something different.

Take care.
_________________________
Me:55 H:50 M:27 S:2 Been to the lawyer.
D32,S/D twins25,D20
EA4/04 End4/05?
Life is good! Living with gratitude.

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#1806450 - 07/22/09 10:30 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: BeingMe]
sunshinelewis Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 1132
Awesome post beingme.
I wish so much I had found this site when my xh was bullying me into a quick divorce. He promised me everything under the sun to just get it over with and I fell into his trap. I get NOTHING from him but a mean look when passing.
_________________________
_________________________________________
M:42
H:40
S:18
M:20yrs/together 21yrs
Bomb:9/08 ILYBNILWY
Sep:9/18/08 "ow" :25
Filed:11/18/08
D:12/8/08
M:Different 26 yr. old 7/09.
Newborn 4/10

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#1806553 - 07/23/09 02:05 AM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: sunshinelewis]
peacetoday Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 2588
ow I really like your idea being me
I dont have the answers but
all I know is that all my niceness and waiting and availability got me nothing but D
maybe we have nothing to lose to giving him the choice like BMe said
wither work on thwe M or walk now or soon and no other talk
definitely see the L
take your time
cover everything legally
and if your H goes to Montreal and you are still Leagaaly M
check on this
credit cards
bank accounts ect
they all seem to rack up lots of debt
so cover yourslef
and I agree let him walk
peace
_________________________
married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow

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#1808714 - 07/26/09 11:49 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: peacetoday]
Golfgirl1 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 797
Loc: CO
Chel, come to Colorado anytime and you have a place to stay! I live in Broomfield and my h and I went to Michele one time. He acted like he was going to try to work on our marriage and then he moved out within a month. Would love to meet you!
_________________________
Me 52
H 47
Married 21 years
No kids
bomb 5/09
filed 7/09
divorced and moving forward 5/10

Life is all about Plan B

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#1809023 - 07/27/09 04:43 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: Golfgirl1]
Chel Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/09
Posts: 69
Hey Golfgirl1,

Thanks for the invite! My dad lives in Denver, that is why I thought it may be possible to get my husband to Boulder; however, he has zero interest to-date. My H won't agree to anything I suggest to save our marriage. He wants a D but still has not filed and still will not leave. I am doing a 180 of trying to ignore him and not interact but I have to tell you it is very difficult. After I met my potential attorney on Friday afternoon H was just sweet as pie. I told H when I got home okay here is my attorney's business card so go ahead and file with your attorney. H said he was having second thoughts and actually seemed human. Of course, after a couple of days I was assured that second thoughts only pertained to difficulty of next step on his part but in no way indicated he was changing his mind. So here we go, have family coming for 10 days starting August 2nd and H said he won't file during the visit as to not upset me but was very angry that my family was ruining his timeline of wanting to leave end of August.

Anyway, I am still on the roller coaster ride of emotions and doing my best to distance myself even while living and working with H. I must admit I am doing a horrible job of this because I am so confused by mood swings that it is extremely difficult to be cold/unavailable.

I, however, at some point will be visiting Denver or possibly will move there if this whole fiasco ever ends in D. I will let you know when I visit next and also would enjoy meeting and talking with you.

Take care,
Michele

M 42
H 41
M 16 yrs.
Together 20 yrs.
Bomb 5/16/09
D papers sitting on table ready for filing, but H has taken no action

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#1809092 - 07/27/09 06:46 PM Re: My H said he wants a D, I'm devastated! [Re: Chel]
BeingMe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 4053
Loc: Canada
Hi Chel! I am glad that you are being more assertive with your H. You have nothing to lose at this point, I think. Yes, the rollercoaster ride ---- awful feeling, and that constant cement block in your stomach that won't allow you to eat (in my experience, anyway).

Take care of you and be at peace knowing that you are doing all you can to work on your M. smile
_________________________
Me:55 H:50 M:27 S:2 Been to the lawyer.
D32,S/D twins25,D20
EA4/04 End4/05?
Life is good! Living with gratitude.

Top
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