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#1829513 - 08/31/09 05:41 PM Re: Guys? Anyone? [Re: aliveandkicking]
robx Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 3082
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Any thoughts about the work thing? If your stbx offered to hook you up, would you accept? Feels a tad whorie to me but then so does being nicer to him so he'll give me money.


Say this gets really ugly in a legal sense between your lawyer and his lawyer should it ever get to that, if you're given job opportunities and you choose not to pursue them for personal reasons, I'm not sure how that's going to put you in a positive light in anyone's eyes. The economy being what it is, if you have the opportunity to work and earn money to support yourself and you choose not to, that may not be something that works out in your favor.
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"...Well, my favorite color is light tan. My favourite animal is puppies. I like serving the Lord. Hiking, playing volleyball..."

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#1829518 - 08/31/09 05:46 PM Re: Guys? Anyone? [Re: aliveandkicking]
robx Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 3082
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I highly recommend NOT getting a tattoo at this juncture. The likelihood that what we would choose today will match what we want etched on our bodies a year from now is pretty slim.

I can't even decide what I want for lunch, where I want to live, how I want to make a living...I sure as sh*t am not gonna commit to branding something on my bod.


seems to me you should re-read your own post and apply it to many other things going on in your life, namely your husband. How many times have we all sold ourselves out of our marriages only to buy ourselves back in at a price we wish was just a little lower (dignity, pride, ego, embarrassment, confusion, etc.).

Are you really committed to ending this marriage with your husband? Is there no way for you to see any possibility of reconciling with him?
_________________________
"...Well, my favorite color is light tan. My favourite animal is puppies. I like serving the Lord. Hiking, playing volleyball..."

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#1829526 - 08/31/09 05:53 PM Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... [Re: aliveandkicking]
robx Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 3082
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
But, the goal...I don't have one anymore other than handling my life with sanity and civility and setting small goals that I can meet.

Where H fits in this, I'm not sure. But, I know I do not feel good this morning, so that's a clue.

I responded to the text but not the email invitation.


I'm kind of on the other side of the fence from you AAK. Kind of where your husband is. My hope/wish for W would be that she either decides that she's 100% finished with me or that she decides what criteria might allow her to consider having me back and be diligent about allowing things to evolve and unfold in a way that is safe and fair for everyone.

I get that this is idealistic and unreasonable for me to expect this but that's what I would wish for. Just seems to me that if either or both parties can have a plan it would increase the likelihood of a better outcome.


Absolutely, but I had a plan and it failed and I was miserable. I have a very clear understanding of what happened with us. He knows my expectation for a marriage with him would require us to do specific things with me...

I have not gotten ONE word that indicates he wants or is ready to get back together.

All I have is that when I pull away, he comes toward me...that's it.

If he said he wanted to get back together, that might be different.

If he came to me with a plan...that would be hot hot hot.

If he wants to date me, he can treat me like a lady...the invitation was a start.

So, to be clear, you are where my H MAY be eventually, but he has no where near the level of contrition, clarity or understanding that you do.


Some people are dense and they require it spelled out for them, it sucks but hey communication between the 2 of you may actually be improved if you told him what you wanted (not needed, there is a difference) from him if ever wanted to make this work.
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"...Well, my favorite color is light tan. My favourite animal is puppies. I like serving the Lord. Hiking, playing volleyball..."

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#1829533 - 08/31/09 06:07 PM Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... [Re: tristan]
robx Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 3082
Originally Posted By: tristan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm hoping it is just grasping at straws and gravity will bring him down to reality. But, it scares me. And his influencing the kids scares me because I think that mentality is so dangerous.



While we are talking on this. What actually scares me about my W is that to an outsider, she seems perfectly normal and absolutely in control. Robx is right that she knows what she is doing. Right now she seems to be in the mode of get seperated and do it as quickly as possible. Nothing is going to stop her.


They have to do it as quickly as possible,
there is a sense of urgency with this, make no mistake about it. The quicker that this is done, there is less time available for people to say things to make them doubt their actions, people like you, parents, friends, co-workers, themselves, etc. Take into account that while all of this is happening, she is feeling guilty but there isn't enough guilt for her to stop doing any of this or maybe the flipside is true, she feels so guilty that she has to leave because of the pain & trouble she is causing you & your family.
_________________________
"...Well, my favorite color is light tan. My favourite animal is puppies. I like serving the Lord. Hiking, playing volleyball..."

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#1829539 - 08/31/09 06:14 PM Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... [Re: robx]
aliveandkicking Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2917
robx- First of all, thanks for checking out my thread.

It has been almost nine months since H left.

It has taken me almost as long to finally stop f*cking around and move on with my life (I am backsliding a bit even indulging). I am going to answer your questions and then try to recap any details that are missing but pertinent.
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#1829540 - 08/31/09 06:16 PM Re: Dreams of a New Normal... [Re: robx]
aliveandkicking Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2917
Originally Posted By: robx
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh, and BTW, my topic is a wish for "dreams of a new normal"...if I could see it, I could move toward it.


Just reading this small part, it's something that's close to home for me.

Do you need to see to believe or can you believe without seeing it?



I get tastes of it (feeling like I am not trapped in a twilight zone episode).

When I experience it, I believe it more. I know I will get there and I don't have to see it per se. But, when I can imagine the essence of what it will be like, it is easier...

I hope that makes sense.
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#1829574 - 08/31/09 07:28 PM robx- here ya go, more blood letting... [Re: robx]
aliveandkicking Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2917
Quote:
Arguing with someone, anyone is a sign of disrespect.
Something in you doesn't respect him and he argues with you because he doesn't respect you.


There is little to no arguing now. The post you quoted was about dealing with the boundaries of our home with his stuff still here even though he lives elsewhere.

I definitely lost respect for him when he was bragging constantly, obsessing about what others think of him, me, our marriage our kids, comparing me and us to other people, spending money recklessly when we were plunging into debt, being inattentive to what was happening in our home when he was here (making things more chaotic, being impulsive and juvenile)...

Knowing that my H was so immature and so fixated on celebrities and the fantasy life, really felt threatening to me. No excuses, I was tough but I felt that I had to be the one to TCB...I wrote at length about it on another thread...to you actually, I think it was ttrose's thread.


Quote:
How do we fix this?

Who stops fighting first?


It is done. I do not fight with him anymore. Ever. And I absorbed a whole truckload of cr*p when he was leaving.

Quote:
Question: if you could have your relationship with your husband and have a great marriage as opposed to it's current state, what would it look like?


Painful to even visualize as I have worked my a** off to detach and let him go. But I will try, when it feels do-able wink . First, I think context is important.

Quote:
What would he be like if you could have him be a specific way? What good things would he do when it comes to you? What needs would he be fulfilling that aren't taken care of now? What would he want from you that he currently thinks you don't provide?

I know I'm coming in a little late on this thread so forgive me for asking some questions you've probably answered a million times already. Where are you guys at currently? How long has it been like this? Do you still love him? (remember love is a choice you make, attraction may be involuntary but love is a definite choice)


Yes, love is a choice. I do love him. I don't like him right now. I am not "in love" with him. Fortunately.

He left nine months ago (went to sleep at friends' houses and travelled a bunch until finally getting his own place (well,paid for by rich friend) about 2 months ago), tore into me as to how it was my fault. I took the hit. He left town, I lost a bunch of weight, started working out and though I was a frickin disaster inside, I looked good and appeared to be managing well. When he came back and saw me, he flipped out and was angry (oh now you x,y and z) which I now understand is because he had already crossed some threshold (OW perhaps).

Never since he left has he really left me alone. I have stayed out of his business. I have validated, apologized, analyzed, discussed, made myself vulnerable, went on dates with him, had sex with him. It is all documented somewhere on here but it was really awful because no matter what, he felt that his "destiny" was to leave etc. Any positive interaction was deemed negative after the fact because it didn't fit with his decision to leave, so my efforts were futile.

What he wanted was to feel like a "man" to be a big shot in the entertainment biz, to have a girlfriend who could go out with him every night (he doesn't remember telling me this)...he wants to be around important people with fame and money (which he has succeeded in doing)...but, we are broke and in debt.

In our M, I was neurotic, demeaning, critical, withheld sex (not intentionally, I had lost attraction and it was very frustrating and demoralizing for me as well) although, I still spiced it up on occasion and made efforts. Often I was visibly bored and unenthusiastic about sex. I felt objectified and used because our M was cr*p and the s*x became one of the only area he put any effort into.

He has body issues. I fell in love with him with extra weight on him but his self-loathing and lack of connection to his body really affected our sex life and his confidence. I felt I was f*cking a boy not a man.

Toward the end I could feel our M falling apart and I gained some weight and got depressed and was very much like the WAWs here. I looked fine but felt very insecure, especially with him bragging about other women coming on to him, other beautiful, successful, famous women...he says that was a "cry for help"...I felt like a piece of sh*t and started to fantasize about leaving.

But, divorce was totally terrifying to me, I'd almost have preferred death, having experienced both divorce as a child and the subsequent death of a parent, processing the divorce was harder...so, knowing my husband was checked out, I was depressed and I didn't have DB and instead of stepping up my game, I sunk deeper and felt helpless and told him I could see he was so miserable and I didn't know what to do so maybe we should separate. He said, "But you're cute and I love you"...and that was enough for me. I did try to be intimate to reach out to him. I am a very straight forward communicator. I could feel what was happening. I articulated to him what I wanted, a balance, for us to reconnect. That when he looked at me, he didn't see me, that when he touched me he didn't feel me that I loved him and wanted our family but felt I was in purgatory not knowing if I would be married from one day to the next.

If I had to simplify, basically, we were broke with two kids and an unglamorous life of our own creation. He blamed me and us for his lack of success (despite the fact that he is very accomplished and talented, the money has not been what he hoped for)...I was critical and interested in the "reality" of our situation and family life...

I was essentially competing with glamorous people who would a) feed his ego and b) had a lifestyle he wanted but couldn't afford.

I cannot provide a care-free, obligation free life with constant sex and adoration. That seems to be what he wants.

I might add that he was out all the time and I was about as cool a wife as I could be about it because he had left once before and that was a huge issue so I recognized that it was important to him and asked that he just be home a couple of nights a week for dinner (when he stuck to that, things were better).

H has blamed me in the past for just about everything some of it too absurd to even write here. He felt emasculated but as I explained in another post, he was so indecisive that I ended up TCB and I did not feel secure that he had the best interests of our family at heart.

What I could have/should have done in the M- lightened up, procured my own source of income so I wouldn't feel so unstable, cultivated my own interests, had sex more and probably gone into my own therapy to build my self-esteem. I wanted to be a full time mom because a) that is my #1 value and b) with H's crazy lifestyle, I felt it was imperative that my kids have at least one parent who is predictable, available, makes dinner, gets them to bed etc.

Ironically, when I did finally get a job things went down hill fast. I think it was actually threatening to him. I was not readily available to him as I had been from the moment we began dating 14 years ago.

To his credit, he tried to get me to come out with him but with no money for babysitters it was tough. Sadly, instead of busting my a** to try to foray more into his world, I pulled back, felt threatened by all of his "friends" and his preoccupation with them and their money and fabulousness. I was tired of hearing about the fantastic lives of all of these people and being compared to them.

I have clearly apologized for my part and I mean down to the specifics, I have changed so much. I look good, I go out, I have chilled out about the kids (providing utopia is obviously not gonna happen)...he knows from the sex we had that it is possible for us to have it often and good (but not in the cake-eating paradigm). I spent a good deal of time taking an interest in his work, listening like a lover, lauding his work, sharing little of my own life and focusing on him which he seemed to like. But, now he is stuck. He told everyone he knows who knows what to gain their approval and sympathy, he straight out lied to our mutual friend that I was pursuing him for sex and he had to turn me down (was the opposite), that I took my ring off (3 months after he did and had made it clear he was seeing other women), that I never supported him or took and interest in his work (I devoted my life to him and his work), that I called him fat and disgusting while having sex (did not happen)...so, now what? How the heck does he get out of that?

Now, what I want and always wanted was a balance. I wanted one night a week to take a class or do something for myself. He could not commit to that because of his social life which had to take priority (shmoozing), however, if he found a class or something he needed to commit to, he found a way. I wanted him to have dinner home a couple of nights a week. Now, I would want those things AND, I would want he and I to go out together at least twice a week (that's a lot for me but would be worth it).

But, he is still acting like a froot loop with the bragging and self-importance and pre-occupation with what others think...he seems very MLC, desperately trying to lose weight, honing his psychic abilities, glomming on to his rich friends as if they were his family, posting pictures of himself with models on his FB page, new clothes, new image, very poser-like (IYKWIM)...I don't know how I could manage living with all of that insecurity.

What I did propose was that we stay separated and be in the present and look at each other through a new lens. That as long as he insists that any time with me is negative and antithetical to his achieving his destiny, I am not interested. I do not want to discuss his life or other women etc.

When I left town recently, he basically text stalked me..."I hope this guy treated you better than I did"...etc. He tried to bribe me to tell him where I was going by offering to tell me what famous actress came on to him one night I didn't go out with him before he left...twisted.

He is by a couple of therapists accounts likely a clinical narcissist which means that his attention toward me has little or nothing to do with love and everything to do with his ego. I think he would need some serious help to make this work together or even in his own life.

But, I try to just see him as a person because I am not a therapist.

Anyway, that's a start.






Edited by aliveandkicking (08/31/09 07:29 PM)
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#1829576 - 08/31/09 07:32 PM Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... [Re: robx]
aliveandkicking Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2917
Originally Posted By: robx
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Any thoughts about the work thing? If your stbx offered to hook you up, would you accept? Feels a tad whorie to me but then so does being nicer to him so he'll give me money.


Say this gets really ugly in a legal sense between your lawyer and his lawyer should it ever get to that, if you're given job opportunities and you choose not to pursue them for personal reasons, I'm not sure how that's going to put you in a positive light in anyone's eyes. The economy being what it is, if you have the opportunity to work and earn money to support yourself and you choose not to, that may not be something that works out in your favor.



The issue is, and I have plenty of documentation, his constant contact and butting into my business. If he has a lead or an opportunity, I will pursue it but I will not have him as a middle man. I think I could easily explain that. My sanity is too important. The offer came when I had not been responding to him and that is the pattern...he finds something I just have to respond to.


Edited by aliveandkicking (08/31/09 07:34 PM)
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#1829608 - 08/31/09 08:28 PM Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... [Re: robx]
aliveandkicking Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 2917
Originally Posted By: robx
Originally Posted By: tristan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm hoping it is just grasping at straws and gravity will bring him down to reality. But, it scares me. And his influencing the kids scares me because I think that mentality is so dangerous.



While we are talking on this. What actually scares me about my W is that to an outsider, she seems perfectly normal and absolutely in control. Robx is right that she knows what she is doing. Right now she seems to be in the mode of get seperated and do it as quickly as possible. Nothing is going to stop her.


They have to do it as quickly as possible,
there is a sense of urgency with this, make no mistake about it. The quicker that this is done, there is less time available for people to say things to make them doubt their actions, people like you, parents, friends, co-workers, themselves, etc. Take into account that while all of this is happening, she is feeling guilty but there isn't enough guilt for her to stop doing any of this or maybe the flipside is true, she feels so guilty that she has to leave because of the pain & trouble she is causing you & your family.


Oh, in my case, H just bailed. I will probably have to file something so that I can get a certain amount and move into my own place and have a clear idea of what my financial situation is. So, he's not rushing to divorce. I think he would prefer to be married and do his thing...less to deal with.
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#1829611 - 08/31/09 08:34 PM Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... [Re: aliveandkicking]
SmileysPerson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 1757
Loc: Coastal City
Quote:
Say this gets really ugly in a legal sense between your lawyer and his lawyer should it ever get to that, if you're given job opportunities and you choose not to pursue them for personal reasons, I'm not sure how that's going to put you in a positive light in anyone's eyes.


Nahh. Court won't buy it. Nobody's expected to take job offers from their ex. Conflict-of-interest, don't you know? "Mon dieu! Eef Ah can get zee Ecks a'hoo-ked up wis ze Job, zen Ah doonat have to pay zee alee-moan-eee! Zoot alors! D'accord!"
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"I wanted to change the world. But I found the only thing one can be sure of changing is oneself." -- Aldous Huxley

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