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Chel Offline OP
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Well I am back and quite discouraged. I tried ignoring H before my family arrived and H still never talked R nor did H do anything positive or negative. While family was here H participated for the most part and actually seemed to enjoy being with most of my family. After family left last week I was so exhausted. Our wedding anniversary occurred over family trip and H simply ignored it which really hurt but had my cry alone and had enough family around to keep spirits up. After they left I was at an all time low, no more distractions just back to the roller coaster ride. At end of last week H put his arms around me and wondered if we could have sex. I told him that if he was leaving me no. I asked when he was going to leave and he said he did not know and asked if we could still make it together after everything he has said and done. I told I had the capacity for forgiveness but we had a lot of work to do and would not be turning back to the marriage we had - it would have to be new. H said nothing. In fact, H told me he wished he could stay but H thinks I deserve better and too much has transpired so he should go; however, he doesn't want to do the work involved to leave. So again, I am twisting in the wind. Again, I let myself have hope and thought being he was staying and had not brought up D he may have changed his mind. However, I was wrong and could not help myself but cry in front of H and tell him how much it hurt. He actually asked if it did not work out for him if he could come back. I asked him how could he say that when he won't even go to one counseling session but yet I should still be open to reconciliation. I told him I thought that was unfair but could not predict the future.

He is going to go isn't he, why the torture...he is making it so difficult and awful that we will have nothing left. And, H won't leave!

Help,

Michele
M 42
H 41
Married 16 years
Together 20 yrs.
No kids
D papers still on table
Bomb dropped 5/16/09

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Michelle
I am so sorry for your pain
I understand how hard it is
how hard you are trying
and how painful it is
seems like your H is still on the fence and undecided

Im not sure if you have tried the tough love approach
was that you?
and then your H said he wasnt sure he wanted D?
Is he willing to go to therapy?
I dont know what to tell you
just follow your gut
you can go to therapy alone
take care of yourself
you are doing an amazing job of keeping it together
peace


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
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Hi Chel! I am so glad you had a good time with your family. Your H is a dufus for ignoring your anniversary, but I guess it was to be expected given the circumstances.

He is also lazy and an emotional coward. Does this sound like the H you had before? You've said before that you have enabled him. This is his MO. He is not going to change for you. He wants you to do all the work of dismantling a M you want to save. He wants sex even though he is leaving. He won't go to counselling. He gives you hope with wondering if you could forgive him, but then says no, he still wants a D. He is spinning you in the wind because he can. So, you have to stop the R talk. Stop the crying in front of him (I know you know this, but no harm in repeating).

Two things we know here ---- he says he wants to leave, yet he hasn't left. Say nothing until he has his bags packed and is walking out the door. Then say, "goodbye". But, you know, I wonder if he has the guts to do it, for real. I think he's hoping you'll do it for him. So, do nothing, but continue with your life --- GAL activities, be pleasant but distant to him, act 'as if'. Do nothing to assist his departure or the D which you don't want.

In the middle of my sitch, I used to pray every morning in my car just before going into work. And, one day, a very clear word was said to me in my head. It was, "patience". I understood then, that I should be patient and wait this out. I think you should be too. I know how hard this is, but keep trying.

Take care.


Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed.
D35,S/D twins28,D22
EA4/04 End? Who knows?
"Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
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Chel Offline OP
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Hey Being Me & Peace,

Thanks for your reply. I spoke with a DB telephone counselor and she indicated I needed at this point to possibly help him get his bags packed and on his way because his indecision is laziness. Again she reiterated to GAL and truly I am trying my best. She said to leave after work, not say anything and just try to do as many activities without H as I can. Again she said say nothing, no R talk, and if H asks why I am coming and going without saying anything I can just tell him that he has decided to leave me and that I am getting on with my life and that life does not include being/acting like his wife.

The weekends are just so difficult - on Sunday a.m. woke up and H was again laying next to me with tears in his eyes. He started to touch me and I flat out told him his mixed signals (tells me one thing, but is still here and still wants physical touch, etc) are more than I can bear and I cannot take it any longer. He indicated that he had not changed his mind and H said he wanted more than anyone for our marriage to work and for his mind to change but it won't. Again, H absolutely refuses to go to a counselor, H refuses anything I suggest. H says if we weren't able to fix our M on our own no one else will be able to help. H said he is not going to pour out his personal feelings to anyone. H also said that is the one thing he will probably regret the most, not talking to someone but yet refuses to do it. So I again politely asked him to go now but he won't. This weekend H told me he plans to leave at the end of September because now he has a supposed small job at the coop he is going to live at - some type of co-manager. Of course, I had not heard about that, but H claims he told me a couple of months ago; anyway, I did not bring up D. I tried not to get into any conversations but I honestly just feel sick to my stomach. There is no end...

Question, how did each of you handle H's leaving?

I know I need patience and I am trying to have that, plus GAL and still keep myself from throwing up. Just looking at his face makes me so sad, because H still wants to hang out with me as H has basically cut (I mean not communicating at all) with anyone here so I am it. H did mention enjoying the things we had done over the past few months and again reiterated why had I not been so fun before. H also said matter of fact that I am who I am and I am not a passionate person about anything. H indicated that I never jumped on top of him in the early a.m., never snuggled at night and was never intellectually passionate. Ouch!!!

H said the people in Montreal are all those things, H just hopes that he doesn't make a mistake and find he really craves the stability, kindness and love I give. At this point I am positive there must be another woman.

One last question. Isn't almost a reality that we need to be apart at this point. If there is no give and take and H has decided for both of us our M cannot be saved, than there is really nothing I can do, can I? I cannot think of anything so I am going to work on my resume and try and look for a place to live and try with all my might to live in the real world.

Again, I am basically at this point just regurgitating what I've said in the past but your comments really do keep me going...knowing I am not alone accounts for a lot.

I will just really miss H and my heart is broken.

Thanks for listening,
Michele

M 42
H 41
M 16 years
Togther 22 yrs.
Bomb 5/16/09
D papers drawn up not signed to-date

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Quote:
H indicated that I never jumped on top of him in the early a.m., never snuggled at night and was never intellectually passionate.

Was he ever like that? Stability, kindness and love was good enough all the years you were married and now he wants something different. Did he give as good as he got? He wants you to change? What the heck is intellectually passionate, anyway? Definitely sounds like OW, I'm afraid. Sounds like an early R, where one would be jumping on top of one another and snuggling at night (which is weird for a man to want, the snuggling I mean, but oh well).

You were probably always fun --- he just didn't appreciate it before and now that there is a possible parting of the ways, he is seeing there is more to you then he realised. So, I very much agree with the DBC --- he is lazy and needs to face the world on his own. If he comes back and wants to go into counselling then you know he means it. If you lose him for good, then you know it was inevitable and at least you had control of your life by giving him his. Hope I make sense here. (The ol' "if you set a bird free, etc. .....)

My H never actually left the house before wanting a reconciliation. He was in another bedroom, however. So, I can't tell you how that felt. Ask yourself though ---- how much worse can you feel? Perhaps having him outside the house will give you some peace (I have heard other DBers mention this, that they felt better not having to deal with the constant emotions having them in the house).

Quote:
If there is no give and take and H has decided for both of us our M cannot be saved, than there is really nothing I can do, can I?

I get the impression from other posts of yours, that your H isn't much of a give and take person anyway. He has decided he wants to end the M, but he wants you to do the grunt work. He wants to go to Montreal, but either you have to drop him off at the border or his "friends" must come pick him up. He doesn't seem to be a very independent man? You could use this to your advantage if you wanted to, but then how will you truly know he's committed? Take the coaches advice and stick to it for as long as you can and then a bit more. By the end of September, some other idea or situation may present itself.

Just some thoughts. Take care and good luck!!!!


Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed.
D35,S/D twins28,D22
EA4/04 End? Who knows?
"Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
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Sorry Chel, but I am stuck on this "intellectually passionate" phrase. It seems like such an oxymoronic thing to say. Intellectual implies cool, rational steadfast thinking. Whereas, passion is a type of frenzied excitement evoking images of unthinking desire. Makes no sense to me. The only way it does make sense is that it is a mechanical lust, driven by eroticism, rather than love and affection.

But, that's just me. Given the description above, I would not feel insulted in the least. This just shows the level of his confusion, further clarified by thinking he's told you things which he has not (rewriting history).


Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed.
D35,S/D twins28,D22
EA4/04 End? Who knows?
"Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,060
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...continued ....

He follows on to say that, "the people in Montreal are all those things." What! He knows that the other men are also experiencing their women jumping on them in the middle of the night and snuggling, whilst being "intellectually passionate?" I thing "people" in Montreal = OW. And, perhaps he had a bit of a titillating experience then he returns home thinking he has found his "soul mate" (they all call them that) and finds himself unsure what to do. Let's face it, all this so-called passion takes a lot of work and effort, and we all know he is a somewhat lazy person, emotionally and romantically. So .... you know where I'm going with this, I'm sure.

Take heart, you know your H better than he knows himself. Get through the pain, and see this for what it is. Try and look at it as objectively as possible. Hard, I know, but try.

Odds are, he's not moving to Canada any time soon or ever. That's my opinion, if I were a gambler. He keeps moving the date and making some excuse or another to not leave.

Sorry, for all the posts, but I keep thinking about it and realising stuff. whistle laugh


Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed.
D35,S/D twins28,D22
EA4/04 End? Who knows?
"Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
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Chel
from the many posts Ive read here on this site, it does seem like the majority of WAS do eventually move out
some never leave but most do go
I remember my XH stayed in the house 4 months post bomb
I also never thought he would go
he talked about it
but
my xh was never intimate with me again after bomb
he slept on the couch and stayed out every night till 2am or later
there was OW..at that point I wasnt sure as my xh always seemed stable and comitted to M
When he did finally leave, he just packed some plastic bags of clothes and left
I think he said he wasnt coming back and sleeping at Bill's House

My house became very peacful
the energy shifted from tension, anxiety fear scare
to
Peace
I started being more available to kids and worked on healing m,uself
I meditated and journeled daily
I went to therapy weekly the whole time
MY xh never came home
He M ow and is now depressed and in debt
he is on prescription drugs-I would describe him as a mess
I am grateful we are D

Your H may get upo and leave one day whjen you least expect it
or he may chose to ride this out at home
the ones who never move out are more likely to reconcile later
so its your call what to do
If you can ride it out with him at home
or if you want to ride it out a part
It does seem from the boards and the MLC Reading that it is a real journey that takes time and ther eis no way to rush H thru the tunnel
try to take care of yourself
and you will know what to do
trust yourself
peace


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Joined: Mar 2009
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Chel Offline OP
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Being Me & Peace,

You guys are awesome! I appreciate your analysis so much. I am a slow processor of information and have for the most part in my life needed to step back and look at things before making the next move. Whatever this "is" is no exception and on top of that my vision is clouded with love, pity and disbelief.

However, I am finally starting to process, with your help, these behaviors and what you each have experienced to understand what I am up against. There seems to be absolutely nothing more I can do for us so I really put my efforts into GAL'ing this week. I have been out twice this week and last night when I came home I can honestly say I genuinely had fun (couple glasses of wine helps). When I got home H immediately mentioned you look like you had a good time and I replied, yes I did. I could tell H wanted to feed off my happiness and was trying in his own way to make me laugh, etc. For the first time though I really did not want to interact with H and just really wanted to get ready for bed and think about how nice the evening had gone. It just reinforces the lesson of being upbeat and not letting them see you cry, unhappy. For once H had no control over my emotions and it must have showed.

Today, H brought up Gov. Sanford again, as he was asked to resign by the Lieutenant Governor and refused. H had read about Gov. Sanford's wife how smart and capable she is; and, H started to wonder why these high profile women, Hillary Clinton, Silda Spitzer, Jenny Sanford, Elizabeth Edwards, etc. would stand by their man. I really did not want to go there, but I stated matter of fact maybe they wanted their marriages to survive, maybe they had the capacity to forgive or maybe they were overachievers themselves and did not want to fail at marriage. I started to think, bingo, maybe I don't want to let go not just because of love but because of feeling like I failed. I did ask H though why he thought these guys did not do the right thing and divorce before the affair and why they did not D their wives? I told him I thought even though they cheated they still want stability, love, and companionship. They want to fool around and ask for forgiveness later. I could be totally wrong but it did strike me as odd H initiated this conversation.

It is close to another week of no D talk and I was sure something would come up as he had set his next deadline or leaving at the end of September. No D talk. We even went out to dinner the other night and it was nice, even laughed a couple of times. This whole thing just gets creepier and creepier and these last couple of days I am starting to feel that I perhaps may start detaching from him as it has just gone on too long.

I really feel it in my gut that there is an OW in Montreal; however, I don't think it is cut and dried - I feel as though OW might not be totally free, even though she may be a free spirit. Could be completely wrong on that issue altogether but you both are correct there has got to be an OW or this drive in H to go could not be so strong.

I also agree that it would be good to be alone right now, but it won't happen on my terms of a small break from each other. H is adamant he wants to go and H is adamant that he wants to D before he goes. I already know H is lazy but I am starting to wonder if he is making excuses and doesn't want to give up control over me. I also wonder deep down inside if this wild/crazy/passionate affair is something H knows is just a fad and he would eventually regret leaving the love/stability/companionship?

So many questions, not enough answers but discussing these issues with both of you is so helpful.

My next hump is the weekend, I am drawn to stick around with H and know that will bring chaos and hurt; however, I just cannot seem to make other plans to avoid this cycle. Why? I can prevent this and I am going to try and dig deep to leave for the whole day with very little information of where I am going.

Any more thoughts or analysis are welcome. I was also trying to keep my mouth shut by writing H a letter. If I actually complete would it be okay to give him. At this point I know no R talk is going to result in anything positive, but in some ways I just feel I need to put everything down I am thinking so he can read and process alone without interruption or the subject being changed. Thoughts?

Thanks again girls,
Michele

M 42
H 41
M 16 years
Together 22 years
No kids
Bomb 5/16/09
D papers half complete but unsigned
H set date at end of Sept. to leave

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Hi Chel! I don't think you should give H any letters. However, someone on this bb, kept letters she wrote in a binder and I would advise that. It would be a good way of sorting your thoughts out, venting your anger, etc. You could even "send" him birthday cards, V cards or anniversary cards if it's awkward at those times.

You are doing well. Love that you're GAL and being somewhat mysterious. Think about what the DBC said. Not sure if she is right in asking your H to leave, but I would definitely give it some serious thought.

Take care.


Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed.
D35,S/D twins28,D22
EA4/04 End? Who knows?
"Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
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