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Sandi and JCJ, back again. H and I were married for 20 years and had anyone asked I would have said he was a loving, sensitive, generous and intelligent family man.

He cared for me compassionately throughout a long illness and then it was as if he awoke one day and thought, "I'm done with caring for her. It's now about me!"

He became cold, distant, selfish and irrational. I kept treating him the way I always had but I was becoming increasingly hurt by his actions and his explosive temper tantrums. Then there was my unflattering begging and pursuing.

Very naievely, I realise now, I sat with him and told him I could no longer live this way, hoping he would agree to work together on the issues. He told me all the usual stuff; It's not you, it's me; we've never been happy; I should never have married; we have nothing in common anymore. Instead of effecting the reunion I hoped he left. I had given him exactly what he wanted!

He was difficult to deal with but the real issues came to the fore when the A was revealed. He stopped seeing the children, both his and my family and our friends.

Phase 1: He blamed, I blamed

Phase 2: He blamed, I defend myself

Phase 3: He blamed, I listen

I read and read and read and I talked and talked and talked to a few close friends. I had three sessions with a DB coach.I analysed my behaviour and his. I have loads of potential as a warm, caring and sensitive wife!!

I loved LL and it all made sense to me. I stopped solving his problems and instead affirmed his problem solving. I recognised the AoS he did for me. I thanked.

I became better at setting boundaries and shutting up. Still working on keeping my mouth closed. Hard for me to comprehend that less is more!

The loving and sensitive man I married is re-emerging but I can't get too far ahead. OW is still there. He likes his own company...could be the tendency to him to try to have it all.....family, OW and solo time.

So I'm here to gather a further perspective and to get people to help keep me in check. I can't give my life to H and I am tempted to throw in an ultimatum and just get on with it. However, like you Julia, I just can't walk away.

C

PS Hadn't thought about the laptop Sandi. Hopefully I could get my children to bring it in for me to check in.

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Want to be more successful more quickly was the thread I was posting on-

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...325#Post1794325

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He cared for me compassionately throughout a long illness and then it was as if he awoke one day and thought, "I'm done with caring for her. It's now about me!"


Hummm, man, this hits close to home. My D was diagnosed with a disease when she was a teenager. She's had rough times with R's b/c of the stress it seems to take on the man. It's not fair to her... b/c she can't help having the disease! Never-the-less, I can see it happening each time she's been involved with a man. Heck, I even experienced it myself!

As Joan Rivers would say....."Can we talk, here?"

I'm just refering to my own personal experience b/c I don't know enough about yours and if it seems to stomp a toe.....it will be accidently.

So.....naturally, I love my D with all my body & soul. But, every time we have tried to live together (since she before she was M the "first" time), it nearly drives me insane. The stress I experienced when she was a teenager and attending high school, all returns as if she never left home. I have my own ideas of "why" I get so stressed but no point in getting into all of that. But here's the kicker. Along with the stress would come a mountain of guilt. Yes, I would feel so guilty for feeling the way I did and the fact that I did not handle things the way I thought "a good mother" should. B/c there were times that I thought that I could not deal another day with the situation and I would want to run away and escape. After she was out on her own and M, etc., there were days that I just could not make myself call to check on her. I would beat myself up like crazy. I looked at it as I'm a bad mother....and b/c my D doesn't have the pleasure of escaping her disease, like I wanted to escape!! So, there you have it rather in a nut shell but those are personal feelings I had to live with for a long, long time. Stress of a handicapp or an disease is something that "some" folks don't seem to be able to handle. A long illness is very stressful and I've been in that type of situation also. It is rough on all the people involved....the ill person and the caretakers.

Now, back to your stitch. I don't know if your illness back then has to do with the surgery you are going to have now.....but it rang a bell when you said what you did about your H helping you when you were sick. "If" this was a daily...shall I say--"ordeal" for both of you....then I sure don't have to tell you how that takes a toll on a M couple. Do you think that he reached a place that he could not handle it and allowed stress to get to him too much? Do you think his A with OW happened when he was trying to "escape" his own reality? (Don't know that I am saying that very well.) You know, like some people may go to a bar and get drunk, others get involved in an A.

Perhaps, none of this has a connection at all......I am feeling my way around here.

Quote:
He became cold, distant, selfish and irrational
.

You said that you kept treating him the same....but you see...."YOU" were not his problem. "HE" was his problem. This description of him is common of the WAS. Whether there were physical problems involved or not, he apparently felt very guilty over his inability to be the man he needed to be and of course....guilty over his A. Many peple act like he did when they are in a MR and feel guilty/ashamed about something. They are actually trying to cover up their shame.

The things he said to you were what we call "script" for a WAS.

It was probably tough to be M to a great gal and know he scr@wed up. Most of us who are WAS will someway try to find fault with our LBS so we don't have to bear all the guilt ourselves. He may have succeeded in doing that, but I hope you did not allow it to change who you are. If you were a great person before the S, then you need to remain a great person and not become bitter or resentful. Now, that would be a remarkable thing, considering he has OW....huh? Well, you don't "sound" bitter to me......you just sound like a woman who loves her H and wants him to come back home. You sound anxious to want to do all the right things. I, for one, am here praying that you will get over your surgery quickly and that the R will get back on track ASAP.

Okay, well, once again I hope I did not speak out of place. I wanted to share that with you to let you know that I've been down a similar road where health issues and family problems are concerned.

Be sure to let us know how he reacts to your talk to him about him helping out with the kids while you are in the hospital. BTW, aren't you going to need him for a while, after you go home?


Sandi







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Hi Cas

Well, maybe I can come at this from the other side also and share with you some of the feelings I felt at having to care for my h. He was so ill in our first year of marriage.

I felt like I was a care-giver and the romance had gone. I wanted to feel special for a while, I was flattered by others attention and resentful that I felt I didn't get it from my h - they were my feelings and not true! Everyone asked how my h was, no one asked about me. Most of all, I was confused that after spending so much time loving and caring for my h (and still did) that I could behave in such a selfish manner; I was shocked at myself and felt confusion and guilt.

I did the same as you and told him I couldn't live this way. He began switching off from that point. For me too ow is still there but I have no idea what is going on with them. It is hard not to see them as a barrier but you can only control you and not their relationship. It seems like a huge wall to conquer but look how far you have come by adopting your new strategy. Assess what is working. It is going to be slow but the more positive interactions you have the more progress you will make. Not being able to walk away is a constant struggle and I can't decide for myself whether it is a good or a bad thing! Sometimes I wish I could - it'd be so much easier!

Now you have given a bit of background over your illness. My advice would be that when you talk about it with him is to not have your own agenda. Neutrally present the fact that you are going to be in hospital for a while and it will take approx (however much time before you are up and about again). See what he comes up with and see if you can work together to find a solution. Remember that for now you are dealing with practicalities not emotions. Guys in the place where are h's are, are much more able to deal with practicalities rather than emotions. If you do need to prompt him, then used 'would you' instead of 'could you'.

With regards to throwing in an ultimatum, for me I think the time will come when it may happen. My DB coach said 'wait till you will be heard'.

Sending you my very best wishes for your hospital visit. (((Cas)))


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Originally Posted By: sandi2


Do you think that he reached a place that he could not handle it and allowed stress to get to him too much? Do you think his A with OW happened when he was trying to "escape" his own reality?



Yes, that's exactly it. Nearly a year of treatment, multiple surgeries and hospital stays placed H under enormous pressure not only to care and support me but also to take on my role as well. I didn't work for 9 months either. He was left to do it all. I was so pre-occupied keeping myself as healthy and balanced as possible that I obviously didn't nurture him as I could have(no self blame, just a fact). Much of what you wrote, Julia about caring for your H is apparent to me now but of course I was blind to that then. I idolised him and cherished his love but sadly he didn't feel this. Reality is that unbeknowns to me there was someone waiting in the wings deciding he was a 'good catch' and she took over the caring and nurturing.

When I found out I was devastated. It was being punched in the gut all over again and it took all my effort to get back on my feet, brush myself off and face the world again. And Sandi, you're spot on about the guilt, too. Your words about the blame affirmed my thoughts. He did blame me to appease his guilt.

Life has taught me that there's no time for anger or bitterness, actually there's no time for anything much! So here I am trying my hardest to have the best possible R i can with my H. It may be civility or friendship or God willing, reconciliation but whatever it is it's got to be better than where we were 2 years ago!


As to OW, like you J, I don't know where that's at (except from my own conclusions) and as it's beyond my control I choose to let it go.

H and I met this afternoon to discuss surgery. He rang to organise a time when I was having a nap after my long day shopping with D. He asked if I was ok. I said yes and then asked if he had woken me. We had a very pleasant convo. He arrived about 15 minutes later.

It was a fairly brief but pleasant meeting. We had a coffee and a chat. I tried not to dominate the conversation...(now that's a 180!!). I also asked for absolutely nothing...left him to do the offering.

H is quite familiar with the surgery so I left him to ask the qns about it all. As this is not life threatening, although major surgery it helped keep the discussion simple and unemotional.

He asked almost immediately what help I needed with the children. I explained that my parents would come to stay(they live locally) if he was happy with that. He was. H said he would do all he could to best assist my parents.

He did comment that my mother never calls him by name any more but said he could understand why. I gently explained that she loved him all the same and perhaps he could give her time but not give up on her. He appeared understanding and agreeable.

H then told me that one of my brothers had sent him some family photos and we talked about my gorgeous nephew and other general family chat. He seemed genuinely touched to have received the photos. (In May he had dinner with another B and SIL who were visiting from out of town.)

I had to then leave as I was reading at church.

Until next time,

Take care and thanks again ladies,

C

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When my daughter found out about her first H's A, she left him and came home. I was so hurt b/c we had taken him in our heart as if he were a son. So, I feel that your mother is not only angry at her SIL, but hurt as well. That first D for my daughter was like a death in our family. I'm glad you urged your H to try to give your mother time. I don't know what he expected from her when taking in consideration what he's done! I'm glad the conversation went well. I just hope you will not get your hopes up in seeing him "respond" tenderly to your time in the hopsital. After my daughter was an adult and still in the hospital a lot and facing tough times, I remember having a hard time staying there and wanting to take off running. Again the guilt would eat me up b/c I knew she needed me at her side for support and yet I had my own battle going on inside of me that I didn't know how to deal with. I believe men are not judged so harshly for their lack of bedside manner or staying all hours of the day & night like people expect women to do. Society just brushes it off with saying, "Well, that's how men are!"

Anyway, it doesn't make it any better for the patient who is helpless in the situation. She/he has physical problems to deal with, which of course can trigger other things.

I haven't see a lot of posts writting on this very subject of how a couple handles an ongoing health issue in a M, but I think there is certainly a need for it to be addressed. OP, A's, D/S, are all terrible things to deal with when nobody is sick, but it does add to the problems when one is ill. Your parents, of course, will always feel protective of you and it hurts when the man who promised to love in sickness and in health.....runs away.

I read a good article on how we women tend to allow hurts, resentments, bitterness, etc. stockpile in us and then we want to back the truck up and dump everything onto our H's. Man, did that describe me to a Tee! My problem was that I always kept dumping the same cr@p everytime and nothing ever was resolved! The differenced between the sexes are amazing and always will be! So, guess the reason I threw that in was to remind you to continue to move in baby-steps when you talk to him. You did a great job with what you had to present to him. I am so glad he stepped up to volunteer his help.

Later,
Sandi


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Oh, yes that's certainly true re men and women at the hospital bedside!

For a long time H never ever asked about my health and didn't even seem to care at all. He has asked and has been supportive (from a distance) only over the past few months.

My health issues are all but over now but I need constant monitoring which can be stressful at those times. The longer I go, the less testing I need. My health is certainly not a day to day issue so I am very lucky. Hopefully this surgery will close the door on that chapter and start a new one.

With regard to my parents-they loved H as a son and they are still hurting. H does understand this and has expressed that he wouldn't blame them if they never spoke to him again.

I read 'Why Women Talk and Men Walk' by Love and Stosny along with Mars and Venus stuff and those books certainly highlighted the m/f differences for me. Should be compulsory reading before marriage!!

Bye now,

C

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Been feeling tired and cranky over the past two days. Just want to say to H-well what's happening, either you are part of the family or you're not, stop playing around. Of course I won't but am so, so tempted!

Had quite a long conversation (25 mins) with H last night which went quite well. Although it was mostly about children and business H was initiating and contributing to the convo as well.

C

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Quote:
Been feeling tired and cranky over the past two days. Just want to say to H-well what's happening, either you are part of the family or you're not, stop playing around. Of course I won't but am so, so tempted!


Well, I know I certainly would not have the endurance to put up with a WAS......and "I" nearly was one! According to what others post here on the board, you wouldn't be normal if you didn't have times you felt like this. WAS are very self centered!

Does he seem to be in a pretty good mood when he's around you? Like, does he laugh very often or is he more serious?







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Oh yes, he's very self centred! Part of it is that he can never acknowledge my pain because it is opening himself up to more guilt so I learnt a long time ago not to expect any sympathy from him.

He's usually in a good mood and is fairly even natured. In more recent months he initiates conversation and his sense of humour is apparent. He laughs and goads, but mostly children. Will look at me when kids respond. However, he doesn't usually initiate contact except when it suits him; usually weekends. For example, will take my daughter to a game Sat night and then call in for a chat afterwards.

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